Found Deceased Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #8

[Chorley8]

I am afraid I didn't get into this case until quite late so.....I have a question or two for you.

Can you think about to the time Mariam went missing? Was there construction the bridge at that time? Was the on-ramp and even more of the highway there possibly closed at the time?

Do you know anything about the stairs that lead from under the bridge supposedly to the highway (maybe this is not right I have just been once and the stairs seemed to be wood. That Mariam would climb up those stairs would possibly know where they led etc. seems to me even more unlikely than walking along the ramp but I remember LE actually proferring this idea. Seems strange to me.

Was there a lot of construction activity under the bridge near to where she was found? In some photos I have seen the answer is very much yes but I do not know the exact date of the photos.

The day I went three years ago I was stopped by two guys in a van who might have been workers - in fact I think I could see the van they were riding in a google street view image parked close to Yonge on the north side of the bridge. I may just have been nervous not knowing if I was trespassing but I felt a bit afraid of the two guys in the pick-up - they were pretty rough looking one messily bearded almost like deer hunters...more than workers.

 

[Chorley8]

The guys told me that where I was walking (up the hill close to the fence and the flat area which is close to but not where she was found (again I wish I knew exactly where she was found) was a construction area which couldn't possibly be true though I didn't argue.

 

[Chorley8]

I think this was a mistake!

Yes I think so too.

 

[outcast]

I am afraid I didn't get into this case until quite late so.....I have a question or two for you.

Can you think about to the time Mariam went missing? Was there construction the bridge at that time? Was the on-ramp and even more of the highway there possibly closed at the time?

Do you know anything about the stairs that lead from under the bridge supposedly to the highway (maybe this is not right I have just been once and the stairs seemed to be wood. That Mariam would climb up those stairs would possibly know where they led etc. seems to me even more unlikely than walking along the ramp but I remember LE actually proferring this idea. Seems strange to me.

Was there a lot of construction activity under the bridge near to where she was found? In some photos I have seen the answer is very much yes but I do not know the exact date of the photos.

The day I went three years ago I was stopped by two guys in a van who might have been workers - in fact I think I could see the van they were riding in a google street view image parked close to Yonge on the north side of the bridge. I may just have been nervous not knowing if I was trespassing but I felt a bit afraid of the two guys in the pick-up - they were pretty rough looking one messily bearded almost like deer hunters...more than workers.

There was construction under bridge on Eglinton. I am not sure if it was happening in 2009. This is super far away from the overpass where she apparently jumped. (?) - Yonge and 401...I do not believe she did it.

 

[Chorley8]

No I meant construction on the Hoggs Hollow Bridge there were pics earlier this thread which showed that at some point AROUND 2009 much of the bridge was closed and there were makeshift huts on the south side of the bridge very close to where Mariam was found and pics of workers hanging off the bridge just above where she was found. I am pretty sure this did overlap with fall of September 2009 but I am not 100% sure.
I guess keeping an open mind I am suggesting multiple somewhat opposing ideas.

1. As for perpetrators someone who worked on that construction site. City workers who used the little building in the cul de sac near where she was found. Of course how could they get there hands on Mariam doesn't really make sense - that is why Outcast's idea of focusing on the school makes sense. And where her backpack was found. And the place where she was found of course as I am doing here.

2. Main point though is that there were lots of workers around who should have detected Mariam.

3. Outcast ok let's say we have to go back to the school to find out what happened to Mariam. Why do you think they would pick that spot to either kill her or dump her body OR create a fake staged scene later? If we suppose were trying to link to her family why not the other side of the bridge closer to Earl Bales? To me it is still a very strange place to leave Mariam. It actually makes most sense IMO as a place to do the latter.

By the way I guess one obvious thing that could have attracted Mariam was friendship. Media emphasized that she had no friends but she had close friends though not a lot it seems in Georgia. She may have had a desire to fit in to the new school. Along the beltline path going east you soon come to a bridge where there is lots of graffitti and kids obviously hang out. There has to be a few spots like that near the school where they could go to quickly remove themselves from prying eyes. It is not really that easy to kidnap Mariam from that school no matter how you look at it. Actually why kidnap her from school? Eventually it would be possible to create a situation where there would be Mariam....and less people around.

School: if a teacher or administrator was confiscating phones or documenting the students lives through photography there could be more than one motive for that.

Dragon boats: we know Russell William's wife's charity org sponsored the Dragon boats. I do think Mariam looks a bit like one of his victims just generally. Could there be a link between the school and I have to skirt around this...someone there?

Think of it: the very first day Mariam does a more public activity the next day she goes missing. Was there supposed to be an attempt the day before? Road right beside M. Bell park. If you could separate Mariam from her brother you could coax her in a car to meet up with him a small distance away....a few metres on you are close to the building where the Dragon Boat Races and the Queen's Own Rifles and a legion are situated AND you are on the highway.

 

[Chorley8]

Anyone know which thread on Mariam there was a link to an article concerning the conflict/civil war in Georgia and someone with Mariam father's last name was quoted in the paper. During the conflict as I remember it was during a retreat of some kind though I might be wrong.

I don't think we knew whether it was him or someone with his name. Wondering for a few reasons but have no idea what thread....and of course the link might be broken if it was a link and not an in-text quote.

 

[outcast]

Anyone know which thread on Mariam there was a link to an article concerning the conflict/civil war in Georgia and someone with Mariam father's last name was quoted in the paper. During the conflict as I remember it was during a retreat of some kind though I might be wrong.

I don't think we knew whether it was him or someone with his name. Wondering for a few reasons but have no idea what thread....and of course the link might be broken if it was a link and not an in-text quote.

Early on there were a lots of speculations that her father's political or otherwise involvement somehow contributed to what happened. I never believed in anything like that. I always thought that she was, either kidnapped or, that she met with someone who she knew briefly who used her naivety to lure her. I really do not believe that her parents, or her background have anything to do with her death. I always had a feeling that something really sinister happened in that school.

 

[dotr]

Early on there were a lots of speculations that her father's political or otherwise involvement somehow contributed to what happened. I never believed in anything like that. I always thought that she was, either kidnapped or, that she met with someone who she knew briefly who used her naivety to lure her. I really do not believe that her parents, or her background have anything to do with her death. I always had a feeling that something really sinister happened in that school.

RBBM.

Wow, that comment put shivers up my spine, is that something you have said before, or did I miss it?
Iirc, the out of the way door near a passageway outside was the spot some felt was vulnerable. Will see if your video of the door is up somewhere to repost.

 

[dotr]

@ 5:30..

Mariam Makhniashvili route to school - YouTube

 

[Chorley8]

4:34 to 5:15 in the video is when she left George and MAY have walked along the little path into the doors. She could also have walked through the parking lot or right back towards Bathurst a street she knew as they sometimes took that route or north to Eg. etc. or through the parking lot and onto the path or into any of the buildings.

I personally think there would be WAY too many people around at that time going into the school for her to be grabbed in that little walkway below the parking lot.

School: statistically how often does it happen that a female teacher or admin person lures a student? How does he know that?

Not it is EXTREMELY interesting that the teacher who was charged last year with sex crimes at the school was quoted talking about her in media at her funeral. Not necessarily him as perp but if as Outcast MIGHT be suggesting there is some kind of network at the school.

"She was a very happy young girl, by the sounds of it, with many interests, be it literature, be it music," said Chris Parkin, a physical education teacher at Forest Hill Collegiate, where Makhniashivili briefly attended.

"It was just nice, I think, for everyone and many of us who did not really know her to hear about that happy childhood," he said after the service.

"I think there's a sense with a lot of people that there's some closure ... so there's a certain amount of relief with that."

But why would Mariam be killed not just seduced, ruined, used? Maybe the thing got way out of hand with media attention? Maybe they thought the runaway idea would stick and the search for her die down? The principal certainly "led" with that idea, that Mariam had problems and she should come home and discuss them.

Also at the beginning of the video we see the grate where her backpack was found or had been I think. I have looked at it and it seems below it is simply the parking lot? Why get firemen to open it?

Most recent video around 44 seconds what does Mariam's Mom say? It is the second time she is saying that it will save MANY peoples lives if Mariam is found.

Parkin quote and subtext :

1. says Mariam is interested in literature I have not o/w hear that not that it would surprise me.

2. Mariam was a "happy" girl I don't think I have heard that o/w not exactly. Happy is repeated a happy childhood.

3. Feels "relief".

4. "by the sounds of it" and those "who did not REALLY know her" - maybe.

Don't think he was at the school though in 2009 does anyone know? Where was he?

 

[outcast]

From what I know Mariam was very interested in math, not literature and music. It was her brother who was more interested in arts. I learned from very reliable source that Mariam was so immersed in math that she could do math problems practically the whole day long. Mariam also was sort of upset that she did not score as high as required on her English test, and was placed in ESL. Also it seemed that she was really ticked off by the assessment of her French proficiency. She spoke to the guidance teacher at school and that did not go very well. After that meeting she said that she would never go back to that person. It seems that there was much more happening in her academic life than we know, or that school wants to admit. I am not saying here that it has anything to do with her demise, but I am curious how PA ( school principal "knew" that Mariam is a runaway and even invited her to come back home??? in the early days - there must be somewhere her statement recorded... ). And so on and so on... I am not sure that we know all the facts, and that what was presented in media, painted the picture of shy girl who liked to read, but it seems to me that it is way too simplified.


http://ca.ratemyteachers.com/aitchison-peggy-magaret/1074727-t

02/13/14
This being is about to rotten. She stinks. Her attitude and her family will go down as the biggest disgrace for the society. I curse her from hell I wish a big misfortune falls upon her and anything love by her. She is a *****. YOU PEGGY PIGY AITCHINSON.

And this BS.. she barely knew her..

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/09/mariam-makhniashvili-death_n_1336123.html

“For me it brings a terrible sadness and a tragic sense of loss,” principal Peggy Aitchison said upon hearing news that remains found last week were confirmed Friday to be Makhniashvili.

Too much emotion for someone she know only for five days... I do not get it...

For Aitchison news of the discovery brings to an end a sad chapter about a student who vanished on her fifth day at school.

Just to add, I saw this (whatever.. I will not say it..) few weeks ago, driving super expensive sports car ( I am not good with cars, but I can tell ya it was 100 000 dollars car, metallic, convertible..)... Her silver hair carefully groomed... I got just a glimpse of this creature... Something is not right here.. I do not know what... But something is amiss...

 

[Chorley8]

Not defending but it IS possible:

1. Person is straining to appear warm and caring when not knowing the student and her only being there a few days she honestly doesn't feel much connection. But yes those online comments are extraordinary there are lots of them all pretty well as negative as that kind of thing can be.

2. Close to impossible to get LE to find any of the statements suspicious. Didn't thing someone could get just whisked away at that time in the morning but to be fair Nealon (LE) thought the very same thing.


3. But I am not saying you are not on to something you might well be.

I still have trouble envisioning what could have happened the only thing we know is she headed to a different entrance that money and as others commented way back maybe there was some lure there.

So many easier things could be arranged though than that busy time....strange

 

[outcast]

Just sayin': something is not adding up here...We may never find out what happened to Mariam, but I just do not see her walking all way up to that overpass. It does not make sense at all.

 

[dotr]

Did someone want to "fix principal's wheel', make her and the school look bad, or make a public statement by taking MM?

 

[Chorley8]

Just sayin': something is not adding up here...We may never find out what happened to Mariam, but I just do not see her walking all way up to that overpass. It does not make sense at all.

I think we agree that the abduction or luring was planned/plotted not a spur of the moment chance/luck thing?

I noticed OC that someone was also accused of hobnobbing with rich parents. Could Mariam have been "ordered"? Maybe for a reward that could buy you something nice to be seen in.

One clue: when her brother briefly went missing father said he was kidnapped by professional kidnappers. There is a potentially a lot there. Why would professional kidnappers take BOTH Mariam and George. (Yes I realize that this turned out not to be the case). That doesn't sound like Mariam being seized for the usual reasons women are kidnapped for. Since Dotr last post put forth a new theory I will ask something a bit offbeat.

Mariam would do math problems all day long. Could she have been taken as a combination of revenge and for her intelligence/abilities?

I am probably putting too much value on her father's statement maybe he was half way around the bend by that point from the terrible pressure but it is possible it would speak to something in the past.

 

[Chorley8]

See my post 340 for the lawyer initially hired he deals with children who have been taken to foreign countries.

And then P.I. Langer.

And the heavy police response (if mysterious and uneven).

Certainly lots of people were thinking this was no random sex crime.

So why at the school a busy place. As I just said IF you had a contact inside the school then of course Mariam would go if asked or called as in "meet me here tomorrow at X time to discuss..." or to discuss her unhappiness with anything scholastic.

Outcast I know I am saying something you are not saying but we could have something like a theory here IMO something from Mariam's past for example the rather ancient hijacking in the Soviet Union and some link to the school to get at Mariam. The following not in English I don't think I linked to this before. The title Jeans Generation I think they were going to put on a play with the title about the young hijackers at a theatre in Tblisi was it the theatre Mariam had seasons tickets for with her friend?). it was prevented from going foreward. The executed the priest and Sheverdnadze supposedly came down hard on them to please the Soviets but there would be an internecine Georgian element.

The complexity of the Georgian political scene re collaborators (with communism) dissidents etc. would be way beyond our understanding here. Of course that is a long time ago. But only so long. Collaboration is a mysterious thing: out of interest I add that an eminent African American photographer who died last few years had collaborated for decades with the FBI. He took the famous photo of King lying on the floor of his balcony at the Lorraine Motel Jesse Jackson and others pointing to where the shots came from. I felt sick when I red that thinking that's true how could he have got that photo just at that moment??!!


Jeans Generation - YouTube

 

[Chorley8]

"After that meeting she said that she would never go back to that person. It seems that there was much more happening in her academic life than we know, or that school wants to admit. I am not saying here that it has anything to do with her demise, but I am curious how PA ( school principal "knew" that Mariam is a runaway and even invited her to come back home???"

this from Outcast about meeting of Mariam with guidance counselor. Once again I would just note how defiant Mariam is in this exchange again no wall flower.

Dd the P. meet Mariam's parents? No doubt they might consider VM a bit overbearing I am not even saying he was just that they might be sensitive to that especially if he sensed they were stupid.

It is interesting that Mariam would be bothered by being in ESL from my perspective it wouldn't be much of an insult. All I can guess is that it shows her desire to fit in, and fast, and also maybe that she got a condescending attitude from whoever was dealing her her. French: well if it is like the Ontario schools I went to and know about then nobody speaks French there even if they teach it.

I don't understand why they put her at such a low grade level.

As a Georgian poster wrote in some other thread though "Georgians don't kill themselves because of a poor English accent".

Anyone know if Mariam had any interest in photography? Had a camera?

 

[Chorley8]

Read this in today's Toronto Star referencing suspicious death of Bella Laboucan McClean I link here for the relevance to Mariam. I noticed Dotr linked the whole article in the Missing Women Edmonton thread worth reading:

1. Just can't determine what happened so it remains a suspicious death.

2. Years later someone COULD come foreward with info the are suppressing but in meantime......

“These types of cases sometimes sit for a while once they’re kind of concluded — there’s no evidence to prove it was an accident, a suicide or a homicide — but without witnesses or video or forensic evidence, we just can’t get to an answer,” Worth admits. “These things are tough, but sometimes they do sit and sometimes people’s consciences get the best of them and people come forward and information comes out many years later, unfortunately.”

Of course with Mariam they actually ruled out homicide somehow. That is a bit strange they could have just left it as in the linked case here.

 

[dotr]

Read this in today's Toronto Star referencing suspicious death of Bella Laboucan McClean I link here for the relevance to Mariam. I noticed Dotr linked the whole article in the Missing Women Edmonton thread worth reading:

1. Just can't determine what happened so it remains a suspicious death.

2. Years later someone COULD come foreward with info the are suppressing but in meantime......

“These types of cases sometimes sit for a while once they’re kind of concluded — there’s no evidence to prove it was an accident, a suicide or a homicide — but without witnesses or video or forensic evidence, we just can’t get to an answer,” Worth admits. “These things are tough, but sometimes they do sit and sometimes people’s consciences get the best of them and people come forward and information comes out many years later, unfortunately.”

Of course with Mariam they actually ruled out homicide somehow. That is a bit strange they could have just left it as in the linked case here.

There is also this very recent case of a young woman falling off balcony..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...man-who-fell-from-Toronto-balcony-July-4-2014

 

[Chorley8]

She was alive at the time of the fall. How do they know that?