Canada - Terry, 27, & Hailey Blanchette, 2, Blairmore, AB, 14 Sept 2015 #2

[Snowglobe]

Was Hailey killed while an abduction was in progress? It's important to establish time of death and cause of death. Proof and belief are different things.

 

[otto]

Was Hailey killed while an abduction was in progress? It's important to establish time of death and cause of death. Proof and belief are different things.

All reported police statements state that Terry was killed at his home, and Hailey was abducted. If it's not possible to "abduct" a dead person, then Hailey was alive when she was abducted. Reports of a screaming child and a fleeing van are consistent with police statements that the child was abducted. What evidence and police statements support the theory that she was murdered in the home and her body was transported to a different location?

Hailey was found within clear view of several homes. Was her body recognizable, or were her remains unidentifiable? I suspect that she was not identifiable, and that is why police had to rely on information from the suspect to locate her body - even though her remains appear to have been placed in a very visible location close to several homes.

If her remains were burned, I doubt that time of death can be determined.

 

[Snowglobe]

Unoccupied homes on a family-style compound may not be all that helpful. It may well be that someone who was not a resident of those properties was sent in to search for Hailey. I believe what they found was traumatic, and hope that person is getting the support they need.

The burden of proof is considerable for a first-degree murder conviction. Speaking of which, David Milgaard spoke this week for Wrongful Conviction Day:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/david-milgaard-wrongful-convictions-1.3255685

"Wolch puts it to the room; who believes the accused, Derek Saretzky is innocent? Nobody moves.
Put that with what Wolch describes as 'junk science,' false confessions, self-serving snitches, underfunded legal aid and an inadequate defence, and you have some of the factors that can lead to innocent people ending up in prison.
Neither Wolch nor Milgaard are ignorant to the fact that most people in jails and prisons are guilty, but that's no comfort to the few who are not."

In David Milgaard's case, he spent 23 years in prison for a murder committed by Larry Fisher, a serial rapist. Fisher had been living in the basement of a home owned by the family of his friend. Milgaard was freed in part due to errors committed by Saskatoon police who ran the investigation. He had the unwavering support of his mother, who fought for his freedom until it happened.

It's interesting that they would choose Derek Saretsky for their example, although this is fresh in everyone's minds.

 

[otto]

Unoccupied homes on a family-style compound may not be all that helpful. It may well be that someone who was not a resident of those properties was sent in to search for Hailey. I believe what they found was traumatic, and hope that person is getting the support they need.

The burden of proof is considerable for a first-degree murder conviction. Speaking of which, David Milgaard spoke this week for Wrongful Conviction Day:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/david-milgaard-wrongful-convictions-1.3255685

"Wolch puts it to the room; who believes the accused, Derek Saretzky is innocent? Nobody moves.
Put that with what Wolch describes as 'junk science,' false confessions, self-serving snitches, underfunded legal aid and an inadequate defence, and you have some of the factors that can lead to innocent people ending up in prison.
Neither Wolch nor Milgaard are ignorant to the fact that most people in jails and prisons are guilty, but that's no comfort to the few who are not."

In David Milgaard's case, he spent 23 years in prison for a murder committed by Larry Fisher, a serial rapist. Fisher had been living in the basement of a home owned by the family of his friend. Milgaard was freed in part due to errors committed by Saskatoon police who ran the investigation. He had the unwavering support of his mother, who fought for his freedom until it happened.

It's interesting that they would choose Derek Saretsky for their example, although this is fresh in everyone's minds.

If Derek Saretzky is innocent, he has some explaining to do: How did he know that the child's remains were at his aunt's property?

 

[bornofposeidon]

Unoccupied homes on a family-style compound may not be all that helpful. It may well be that someone who was not a resident of those properties was sent in to search for Hailey. I believe what they found was traumatic, and hope that person is getting the support they need.

The burden of proof is considerable for a first-degree murder conviction. Speaking of which, David Milgaard spoke this week for Wrongful Conviction Day:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/david-milgaard-wrongful-convictions-1.3255685

"Wolch puts it to the room; who believes the accused, Derek Saretzky is innocent? Nobody moves.
Put that with what Wolch describes as 'junk science,' false confessions, self-serving snitches, underfunded legal aid and an inadequate defence, and you have some of the factors that can lead to innocent people ending up in prison.
Neither Wolch nor Milgaard are ignorant to the fact that most people in jails and prisons are guilty, but that's no comfort to the few who are not."

In David Milgaard's case, he spent 23 years in prison for a murder committed by Larry Fisher, a serial rapist. Fisher had been living in the basement of a home owned by the family of his friend. Milgaard was freed in part due to errors committed by Saskatoon police who ran the investigation. He had the unwavering support of his mother, who fought for his freedom until it happened.

It's interesting that they would choose Derek Saretsky for their example, although this is fresh in everyone's minds.

If Derek Saretzky was innocent why did he try to off himself before his court appearance instead of, you know, just sitting tough for a couple hours until it was his turn to see the judge.

This isn't the stone ages. Innocent people rarely get sentenced as if they are guilty. Our court systems aren't that much of a joke.

Does Wolch have a book to release or something?

 

[Rayemonde]

The survey asked respondents to estimate the prevalence of wrongful conviction in the United States. About 72 percent estimated that less than 1 percent -- but more than zero -- of convictions were of innocent people.

Based on these results, Huff estimated conservatively that 0.5 percent of the 1,993,880 convictions for index

crimes in 1990 were of innocent people. (Index crimes, which are reported by the FBI, are murder and non-negligent

manslaughter, forcible rape, aggravated assault, robbery, burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft and arson.)

That would result in an estimated 9,969 wrongful convictions.

Huff said he thinks that number is probably low. "Our sample was stacked in favor of obtaining conservative estimates," Huff said. Most of those surveyed -- including prosecutors and law enforcement officials -- "have every reason to defend the system's accuracy and underestimate error," he said. Only 9 percent of the respondents were public defenders, who might be more critical of the criminal justice system.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/ronhuff.htm

 

[Rayemonde]

We don't know yet that DS is guilty, only that he has been charged. We don't know what evidence LE have against him - we don't know for sure that he told police where the body was. The people who live on the property may have found it. Even if he did know where the body was, that doesn't prove that he murdered Terry and Hailey.

 

[otto]

If Derek Saretzky was innocent why did he try to off himself before his court appearance instead of, you know, just sitting tough for a couple hours until it was his turn to see the judge.

This isn't the stone ages. Innocent people rarely get sentenced as if they are guilty. Our court systems aren't that much of a joke.

Does Wolch have a book to release or something?

The reasons for Milgaard's conviction are not a mystery. He was found guilty of murder well before DNA analysis was possible, and his conviction was in part based on eye witness statements (his dishonest friends). When DNA analysis was available, he was exonerated.

 

[Snowglobe]

David Milgaard could have been set free in 1980, even before DNA technology proved he did not commit the murder. A provincial judicial inquiry (815 pp.) stated that his imprisonment could have ended if police had followed up on a lead from that time. IIRC, a national TV news program interviewed Fisher's wife, and she said she had filed an affidavit with the police about the events on the day of the murder, but no one wanted to hear what she said. The document sat in a file. The Saskatoon police didn't consider any other possibilities but Milgaard, even though other rapes in the area at the time, similar to the rape and murder blamed on Milgaard, could not have been committed by Milgaard. Those rapes were later attributed to Fisher.

It will take a lot of old-fashioned police work, door-knocking and interviews to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the circumstances of Hailey's death were first-degree murder, if evidence has been destroyed to the point that nothing much can be proven forensically. Is there video evidence of the vehicle? Which neighbors reported the speeding van: TB's or DS's? Where was the van when it was seen heading west? We don't know yet if the RCMP know the location of Hailey's death. They have one crime scene, but do they have or need more than one? DS's lawyer will work the angle of "beyond a reasonable doubt" even if he doesn't go with the NCR plea. One first-degree murder conviction is enough for a life sentence. NCR and plea deals can reduce time in custody, type of custody and conditions of sentencing and beyond.

This takes me back to why CD called DS a "kid". Why would anyone call someone older than they are a "kid"?

BTW, Hanne Meketech worked for the Bagatelle Thrift Shop in Coleman (a workshop run by a charity for people with disabilities), and frequented a local restaurant nearby. Anyone could have met up with Hanne on the day of her murder. Many people in Coleman knew her. But wouldn't it make sense if it was someone who had a personal connection to her? There may be other connections aside from living next door to DS's grandparents. Maybe there's a coat-tail relative in DS's family tree who was known to Hanne.

Victoria Crow Shoe also lived in CNP, and raised her children there. We don't know how long she was in Lethbridge, which may be why she was not reported missing right away. Her children may have gone to school with people involved in this case. They may still be in the community. She may have worked in a place where various people involved in this case visited. She may even have worked with them.

It's important to learn whether any of these cases are connected.

 

[otto]

David Milgaard could have been set free in 1980, even before DNA technology proved he did not commit the murder. A provincial judicial inquiry (815 pp.) stated that his imprisonment could have ended if police had followed up on a lead from that time. IIRC, a national TV news program interviewed Fisher's wife, and she said she had filed an affidavit with the police about the events on the day of the murder, but no one wanted to hear what she said. The document sat in a file. The Saskatoon police didn't consider any other possibilities but Milgaard, even though other rapes in the area at the time, similar to the rape and murder blamed on Milgaard, could not have been committed by Milgaard. Those rapes were later attributed to Fisher.

It will take a lot of old-fashioned police work, door-knocking and interviews to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the circumstances of Hailey's death were first-degree murder, if evidence has been destroyed to the point that nothing much can be proven forensically. Is there video evidence of the vehicle? Which neighbors reported the speeding van: TB's or DS's? Where was the van when it was seen heading west? We don't know yet if the RCMP know the location of Hailey's death. They have one crime scene, but do they have or need more than one? DS's lawyer will work the angle of "beyond a reasonable doubt" even if he doesn't go with the NCR plea. One first-degree murder conviction is enough for a life sentence. NCR and plea deals can reduce time in custody, type of custody and conditions of sentencing and beyond.

This takes me back to why CD called DS a "kid". Why would anyone call someone older than they are a "kid"?

BTW, Hanne Meketech worked for the Bagatelle Thrift Shop in Coleman (a workshop run by a charity for people with disabilities), and frequented a local restaurant nearby. Anyone could have met up with Hanne on the day of her murder. Many people in Coleman knew her. But wouldn't it make sense if it was someone who had a personal connection to her? There may be other connections aside from living next door to DS's grandparents. Maybe there's a coat-tail relative in DS's family tree who was known to Hanne.

Victoria Crow Shoe also lived in CNP, and raised her children there. We don't know how long she was in Lethbridge, which may be why she was not reported missing right away. Her children may have gone to school with people involved in this case. They may still be in the community. She may have worked in a place where various people involved in this case visited. She may even have worked with them.

It's important to learn whether any of these cases are connected.

Since the question of whether Derek Saretsky is responsible for Victoria Crow Shoe's murder has come up several times, let's look at the likelihood. She lived in Lethbridge, 140 kilometres (87 miles) from Blairmore. She was last seen on August 26, but not reported missing until September 15, two days after her body was found. That suggests that she did not have a regular job. No one noticed that she was gone. What do we know about her lifestyle? Did she live a high risk lifestyle? Is there anything to suggest that Derek Saretzky, a 22 year old from Blairemore, had contact a 43 year old woman from Lethbridge? I don't see any connection.

"The RCMP continues its investigation into the death of 43 year-old Lethbridge resident, Victoria Joanne Crow Shoe. Investigators now consider her death to be a homicide. Ms. Crow Shoe’s body was found along the shore of the Oldman River Reservoir at the Windy Point Campground on Sunday, September 13, 2015. Last seen by family members on August 26, 2015, Victoria Crow Shoe was reported as a missing person to the Lethbridge Regional Police Service (LRPS) on September 15, 2015."

http://www.albertavoice.ca/2015/09/death-of-victoria-crow-shoe-now.html

 

[Clouddippingdown]

True. We have little to no information about her death except for the fact it was ruled a homicide. However, through social media searches I have found information that she has lived in Blairmore and she has links to the same social circle as Derek Saretzky and Terry Blanchette. Perhaps it is all coincidence. Perhaps not. Time will tell.

It was mentioned in Victoria's obituary, posted as a facebook page which has since been taken down (unable to locate it) that she worked at the Superlodge motel in Lethbridge. Also mentioned in reports that she was last seen by family on August 26 and last seen by associates on August 31. I gather associates would refer to co-workers.

 

[Snowglobe]

It was mentioned in Victoria's obituary, posted as a facebook page which has since been taken down (unable to locate it) that she worked at the Superlodge motel in Lethbridge. Also mentioned in reports that she was last seen by family on August 26 and last seen by associates on August 31. I gather associates would refer to co-workers.

Victoria's funeral is taking place right now in Calgary at McInnis and Holloway.

http://www.mhfh.com/?s=Crowshoe&cat=86

A work colleague posted that she worked with Vickie at the Superlodge in Lethbridge for a short time.

"Associates" covers a broad range, including friends, acquaintances, etc.

Late August is time for back,-to-school shopping and school registration and school fee payments. We don't know if Victoria has school-age children, but her age and number of children make this likely. This is a very expensive time of year for parents, especially if more than one child is in school. We don't know where she was last seen, but it could be CNP, Lethbridge or points in between.

 

[otto]

It was mentioned in Victoria's obituary, posted as a facebook page which has since been taken down (unable to locate it) that she worked at the Superlodge motel in Lethbridge. Also mentioned in reports that she was last seen by family on August 26 and last seen by associates on August 31. I gather associates would refer to co-workers.

At some point in her life, Vickie Crowshoe worked at a motel, but there is nothing to suggest that she worked at the motel when she was last seen. My impression is that she did not live with family, that she did not have a regular job, and that it was not unusual for her to disappear for periods of time. There is nothing to suggest that a 22 year old who lives nearly 100 miles away is responsible for her murder.

Per this Global Lethbridge news/facebook page, her daughter writes that Victoria had "previous records of just running off, she's always been like that." Another comment is from someone who met her in a "shelter".

https://www.facebook.com/globallethbridge/posts/1042819389063533

The obituary and comments are here: http://www.mhfh.com/crowshoe-victoria-vickie-joanna/

 

[bornofposeidon]

Since the question of whether Derek Saretsky is responsible for Victoria Crow Shoe's murder has come up several times, let's look at the likelihood. She lived in Lethbridge, 140 kilometres (87 miles) from Blairmore. She was last seen on August 26, but not reported missing until September 15, two days after her body was found. That suggests that she did not have a regular job. No one noticed that she was gone. What do we know about her lifestyle? Did she live a high risk lifestyle? Is there anything to suggest that Derek Saretzky, a 22 year old from Blairemore, had contact a 43 year old woman from Lethbridge? I don't see any connection.

"The RCMP continues its investigation into the death of 43 year-old Lethbridge resident, Victoria Joanne Crow Shoe. Investigators now consider her death to be a homicide. Ms. Crow Shoe’s body was found along the shore of the Oldman River Reservoir at the Windy Point Campground on Sunday, September 13, 2015. Last seen by family members on August 26, 2015, Victoria Crow Shoe was reported as a missing person to the Lethbridge Regional Police Service (LRPS) on September 15, 2015."

http://www.albertavoice.ca/2015/09/death-of-victoria-crow-shoe-now.html

This is, in no way, meant to prove a connection between Saretzky and Crowshoe, it is meant more as first hand knowledge about living in the Crows Nest Pass area. It is extremely common for people who live in Lethbridge to be in daily contact with people who live along highways 3/5/6 etc..., this includes the town of Blairmore. It is nothing to drive an hour or two in this area for work or social gatherings.

 

[Snowglobe]

Some of the posts have been removed. One says she went to school at WCCHS: Willow Creek Composite High School in Claresholm? Claresholm is the location of a mental health and addictions centre.

Another poster says that young people commit many of the murders these days. Conjecture to be sure.

People can meet in many different ways and places, even in rehab, although there is nothing to indicate that this was the case here.

 

[otto]

Late August is time for back,-to-school shopping and school registration and school fee payments. We don't know if Victoria has school-age children, but her age and number of children make this likely. This is a very expensive time of year for parents, especially if more than one child is in school. We don't know where she was last seen, but it could be CNP, Lethbridge or points in between.

She was a Lethbridge resident, and she was reported missing to the Lethbridge Police. Doesn't it make sense that if she was last seen in Blairmore, Lethbridge police would tell whoever that they need to report the disappearance in Blairmore?

Why would she be in Coleman or Blairmore? Is there any information to suggest that she lived and worked there? She was born in Vulcan, she lived in Lethbridge when she was last seen, and she must have family in Calgary if her funeral is held in Calgary. What connection is there between Vickie Crowshoe and Blairmore?

It was suggested that she ran in the same circle as Derek Saretzky and that her children did too. Where does that information come from? A little bit of digging suggests that she did not live with her children, and that her children do not run in circles in Blairmore.

 

[Snowglobe]

She was a Lethbridge resident, and she was reported missing to the Lethbridge Police. Doesn't it make sense that if she was last seen in Blairmore, Lethbridge police would tell whoever that they need to report the disappearance in Blairmore?

Why would she be in Coleman or Blairmore? Is there any information to suggest that she lived and worked there? She was born in Vulcan, she lived in Lethbridge when she was last seen, and she must have family in Calgary if her funeral is held in Calgary. What connection is there between Vickie Crowshoe and Blairmore?

It was suggested that she ran in the same circle as Derek Saretzky and that her children did too. Where does that information come from? A little big of digging suggests that she did not live with her children, and that her children do not run in circles in Blairmore.

No, a missing persons report was filed after VCS was found. No one knew she was missing until then. If she was a new hire somewhere, they may not necessarily think anything of it. In low-paying jobs, people come and go. They might have thought she quit without notice.

There are things behind the scenes that we are not allowed to post sometimes, but you can be sure VCS has ties to Coleman.

As a poster above said, people do not understand how things work in that area. One person with a direct connection to this story works in Lethbridge and comes home on weekends. For all we know, that person may have given VCS a ride home to CNP.

Just as people work in B.C. and live in Alberta and vice-versa, they go back and forth quit a bit in the CNP to shop, to work, to socialize, for recreation. It is nothing to go between any of the towns in the CNP, and even within the area people live in one town and work in another, as TB did.

I do not mean to sound De-fensive.

 

[otto]

This is, in no way, meant to prove a connection between Saretzky and Crowshoe, it is meant more as first hand knowledge about living in the Crows Nest Pass area. It is extremely common for people who live in Lethbridge to be in daily contact with people who live along highways 3/5/6 etc..., this includes the town of Blairmore. It is nothing to drive an hour or two in this area for work or social gatherings.

Sure, people drive between Lethbridge and Blairmore for work, but clearly Vickie Crowshoe was not working because no one reported her missing for more than two weeks. Victoria Crow Shoe was living in Lethbridge and was reported missing to local police.

Perhaps the person responsible for her murder is a transient worker who was returning to the US.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...hway-of-tears-investigation-stalled-1.1867647

In any case, is there any connection between that victim and Blairmore? Suggestions that her children ran in circles with the suspect appear to be completely unfounded, and suggestions that a 22 year old prefers the company of 43 year old unemployed women doesn't sound realistic either.

 

[bornofposeidon]

She was a Lethbridge resident, and she was reported missing to the Lethbridge Police. Doesn't it make sense that if she was last seen in Blairmore, Lethbridge police would tell whoever that they need to report the disappearance in Blairmore?

Why would she be in Coleman or Blairmore? Is there any information to suggest that she lived and worked there? She was born in Vulcan, she lived in Lethbridge when she was last seen, and she must have family in Calgary if her funeral is held in Calgary. What connection is there between Vickie Crowshoe and Blairmore?

It was suggested that she ran in the same circle as Derek Saretzky and that her children did too. Where does that information come from? A little bit of digging suggests that she did not live with her children, and that her children do not run in circles in Blairmore.

This is kind of one big area with a bunch of different sub-sections. Maybe similar to all the smaller areas around Vancouver or Toronto, though obviously not as big. The case is being handled by the RCMP, not Lethbridge or Blairmore police. In fact, one of the "if you have any information" contact numbers from the link you gave is to a detachment in Pincher Creek. I'm sure all the RCMP detachments in this area have been given some kind of briefing on this case.

 

[bornofposeidon]

Sure, people drive between Lethbridge and Blairmore for work, but clearly Vickie Crowshoe was not working because no one reported her missing for more than two weeks. Victoria Crow Shoe was living in Lethbridge and was reported missing to local police.

Perhaps the person responsible for her murder is a transient worker who was returning to the US.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...hway-of-tears-investigation-stalled-1.1867647

In any case, is there any connection between that victim and Blairmore? Suggestions that her children ran in circles with the suspect appear to be completely unfounded, and suggestions that a 22 year old prefers the company of 43 year old unemployed women doesn't sound realistic either.

Perhaps.