CAR SEAT discussion

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Carseat strap location.

pame8e6e.jpg


http://carseatblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/KF

All posts are MOO
 
That car seat strap had to be painful for Cooper.
Way too low and tight. :(
 
Another member had asked a while back a question I am most interested in seeing addressed at trial.

Apparently RH and LH split duties for dropping off and picking up Cooper. Probably based on LH's more flexible or changing work hours. So this means one car would be dropping him off and another picking him up many times.

Then we hear that Cooper had a new big boy seat and it was in RH car til a few weeks ago when LH put into her own car to use while traveling to Bama to visit family.

So was LH usuing the Keyfit30 before swapping with RH? If so what were the strap settings? If not then what, were they leaving carseat at daycare with Cooper so the "good" seat was always available no matter who was picking him up?

These question are very important in trying to discern just how nefarious the use of the Keyfit30 with straps on lowest settings is in light of possible premeditation.

I believe RH is guilty. But not sure about straight up planned premeditation. ("but there is no malice")

Answers to the above would sure give me a better idea.
 
I would like to have a final answer on the whole daycare car seat thing too. I want to know who did what and I want to know if she worked in the center or if she did home health visits. (I don't think that DaVita center offered home visits)
If she normally left for work at 7:15 am I believe that she worked at the center at 200 North.Cobb Pkwy. in Marietta.
They are open from 8:00am-4:30pm
That would put her at Cooper's. daycare at 4:51pm.


I have heard it said every way, but Det. Stoddard said,

"Under questioning from the judge, Stoddard stated that

Ross Harris routinely brought Cooper to daycare,

while the mother and father had traded duties picking him up in days leading up to the death."

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...cause-bond-hearing-in-hot-car-death/12143057/

Daycare didn't open until 7:30am.

On June 18, she left for work at 7:15 am.
If she had to drop Cooper off,
she would need to leave home by 6:30-6:35 am to drive in traffic the opposite way to daycare to drop Cooper off and then drive back towards against traffic to Marietta.

It makes no sense if RH is headed there anyway an hour later.

All posts are MOO
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
There is no way to fit a child Cooper's size in a carseat that looks like that--I would say it would be physically impossible.
Click to expand...

I have two children, and remember the transitional milestones of their car seats well. This image makes me sad, and I am coming out of :lurk: mode to say this...

The straps would run behind Cooper's shoulders, like suspenders. This has been discussed before - that this would violate the manufacturer's recommendation for the straps - and they should have been adjusted to the higher levels to fit him as he grew, and then he should have been in a "big boy" seat if he simply didn't fit anymore.

It has also been discussed that these strap adjustments are not simple, and parents often continue to improperly belt their children in. The links and posts are upthread and were also in the GD threads.

The top of the belt is not rigid - so I respectfully disagree. It can be done. It would have been very uncomfortable for Cooper, especially depending upon how upright he was seated, and resisting this seating position. IMO.

Just to be clear, just because it was physically possible, doesn't make it right. It wasn't (and isn't); the increasing levels exist for safety and comfort - both of which jrh appeared to have ignored.

:twocents:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kimi_SFC said:
I have two children, and remember the transitional milestones of their car seats well. This image makes me sad, and I am coming out of :lurk: mode to say this...

The straps would run behind Cooper's shoulders, like suspenders. This has been discussed before - that this would violate the manufacturer's recommendation for the straps - and they should have been adjusted to the higher levels to fit him as he grew, and then he should have been in a "big boy" seat if he simply didn't fit anymore.

It has also been discussed that these strap adjustments are not simple, and parents often continue to improperly belt their children in. The links and posts are upthread and were also in the GD threads.

The top of the belt is not rigid - so I respectfully disagree. It can be done. It would have been very uncomfortable for Cooper, especially depending upon how upright he was seated, and resisting this seating position. IMO.

Just to be clear, just because it was physically possible, doesn't make it right. It wasn't (and isn't); the increasing levels exist for safety and comfort - both of which jrh appeared to have ignored.

:twocents:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well, maybe that model is different than most--because I know my little one would have screamed bloody murder when his crotch got jammed up in there--and my boy was much smaller than Cooper was at that age. Regardless of whether he could fit in it or not, I think he was strapped in the back seat.
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
Well, maybe that model is different than most--because I know my little one would have screamed bloody murder when his crotch got jammed up in there--and my boy was much smaller than Cooper was at that age. Regardless of whether he could fit in it or not, I think he was strapped in the back seat.
Click to expand...

And here is the poster that owns the type of car seat that was in RH car. She put the straps in the lowest position and was able to strap her own 21 month old child in that seat.

I'm not trying to change your mind about your theory. I am just letting you know why I don't agree.

I promise I won't post anything else. I respect your opinion, we can agree to disagree about this.
 
gngr~snap said:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10716994



All posts are MOO
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the picture? I can't get a handle on how that child in the picture could have been belted in--our small seat didn't have straps long enough to stretch out once the height/weight was maxed out--I had to replace it even before then because there just wasn't any more belt to come out. I don't know, they come up with more improvements each year...two years could make a difference, I guess.
 
Can I just say that the cost of a second, properly-sized car seat would be about the cost of one of Ross' Chik Fil A breakfast, a Publix lunch, and just one of his Bama game tickets.

There are fancier ones. But they could have easily purchased a safe, quality, affordable car seat. It just was not a priority.

Or perhaps, since they knew Cooper wasn't going to be around, they didn't see the point in spending the extra money.
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
There is no way to fit a child Cooper's size in a carseat that looks like that--I would say it would be physically impossible.
Click to expand...

Before the Car Seat discussion forum was started, there were pages and pages of car seat discussion either on the now closed General RH discussion forum or The Small Details That are interesting forum. Before these posts several weeks ago, I could not understand it either. It appears that the back straps can be extended and are not tight until maybe they are buckled in. The back straps can come up the back of the baby and then over his shoulders even if the straps are set on the lowest setting. That means there would be lots of strap length going up the child's back and then over this shoulders. Several moms of young babies explained it the way the following post did. I copied and pasted the following post:


kimi_SFC

I have two children, and remember the transitional milestones of their car seats well. This image makes me sad, and I am coming out of mode to say this...

The straps would run behind Cooper's shoulders, like suspenders. This has been discussed before - that this would violate the manufacturer's recommendation for the straps - and they should have been adjusted to the higher levels to fit him as he grew, and then he should have been in a "big boy" seat if he simply didn't fit anymore.

It has also been discussed that these strap adjustments are not simple, and parents often continue to improperly belt their children in. The links and posts are upthread and were also in the GD threads.

The top of the belt is not rigid - so I respectfully disagree. It can be done. It would have been very uncomfortable for Cooper, especially depending upon how upright he was seated, and resisting this seating position. IMO.

Just to be clear, just because it was physically possible, doesn't make it right. It wasn't (and isn't); the increasing levels exist for safety and comfort - both of which jrh appeared to have ignored.
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
Well, maybe that model is different than most--because I know my little one would have screamed bloody murder when his crotch got jammed up in there--and my boy was much smaller than Cooper was at that age. Regardless of whether he could fit in it or not, I think he was strapped in the back seat.
Click to expand...

The straps in the back come up the back of the child (even from hip level or lower) and then over his shoulders. I think the example of suspenders helped me visualize it. Then the child's crotch would not be compromised.
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
Well, maybe that model is different than most--because I know my little one would have screamed bloody murder when his crotch got jammed up in there--and my boy was much smaller than Cooper was at that age. Regardless of whether he could fit in it or not, I think he was strapped in the back seat.
Click to expand...


Why do you think that? A 22-month-old could get out of a seatbelt with almost no difficulty. If he were in distress, he would have gotten out of the lap belt and tried to open the doors or windows. Rigor shows he died in a seated position.

Also, if Cooper were simply belted in a seatbelt, facing forward, Ross couldn't have missed seeing him.
 
kimi_SFC said:
I have two children, and remember the transitional milestones of their car seats well. This image makes me sad, and I am coming out of :lurk: mode to say this...

The straps would run behind Cooper's shoulders, like suspenders. This has been discussed before - that this would violate the manufacturer's recommendation for the straps - and they should have been adjusted to the higher levels to fit him as he grew, and then he should have been in a "big boy" seat if he simply didn't fit anymore.

It has also been discussed that these strap adjustments are not simple, and parents often continue to improperly belt their children in. The links and posts are upthread and were also in the GD threads.

The top of the belt is not rigid - so I respectfully disagree. It can be done. It would have been very uncomfortable for Cooper, especially depending upon how upright he was seated, and resisting this seating position. IMO.

Just to be clear, just because it was physically possible, doesn't make it right. It wasn't (and isn't); the increasing levels exist for safety and comfort - both of which jrh appeared to have ignored.

:twocents:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Great explanation! This is what I remember reading when this was discussed before. I copied and pasted this to post on the Small Details that are Interesting forum because the car seat is now being discussed there. As I said before there was in depth very lengthy car seat discussions on a general thread or Small Details that are interesting thread before it was decided that a separate Car Seat Discussion was needed. Thanks for the great explanation.
 
SStarr33 said:
No, I wish he would have filmed it from his view with like a helmet cam. He definitely made the point that it would have been closer if the seat was moved back for a taller person. I think it goes without saying that you would see him when turning around and backing up (unless that big hood thing is on. RHs only hope as far as that goes is that he uses his mirrors to back up. Hopefully his method can be seen on video of him driving/parking.
Click to expand...

I feel sure LE will have RH's car and CH's seat for the jurors to sit in the driver's seat to determine if the driver could have seen the child when turning right, reach to get his computer bag before exiting the car, etc. That will help all of us.
 
The infant seat is a small detail because it was too small.

Hippiemomof5 said:
I'm not sure if a link will work... But here's a similar car seat to his... Watch at 1:28... You push a button and pull and the straps pull out loose, so even though the straps were coming from low on CH's back (set for a newborn), it wasn't necessarily tight on him. If that makes sense. I know it's hard to understand if you're not used to car seats and using them often.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnWZLlVZ9bI
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting the link bc it led me to this link of the informative review of the infant seat:
* it's red
* it's mid-priced...can be purchased from Amazon for $158
* the owner describes that it retains heat due to the design and the negative reviews

the design allows in too much sunlight near the baby's face @ 1:20.
describes the heat this infant seat generates as the reason for one star reviews @ 2:34
describes the heat the infant seat generates @ 4:54

[video=youtube;CHeTWTbWXrw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHeTWTbWXrw[/video]

Also, it is my understanding that the one new proper fitting carseat was purchased six weeks prior to death.
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
Are you referring to the picture? I can't get a handle on how that child in the picture could have been belted in--our small seat didn't have straps long enough to stretch out once the height/weight was maxed out--I had to replace it even before then because there just wasn't any more belt to come out. I don't know, they come up with more improvements each year...two years could make a difference, I guess.
Click to expand...

Alright, had a request to take a photo of my son in the seat. I had to take it quick because he was mad at me for interrupting his play with the refrigerator magnets. :) This is the Chicco Keyfit 30 infant seat, which I believe is the same one Cooper had. And, this is my 22 month old son strapped into it with the straps at the lowest setting. I was able to get him all strapped in but I don't think there is much, if any, slack left in the straps. I think they are out as far as they can go. Also, I attached the sunshade onto the seat and was actually surprised I was able to get him in there with that attached. (I thought his head being above the shell would mess with that) I don't know if the sunshade was on Cooper's seat at the time of his death or not, but if it was, you wouldn't be able to see his head from the front seat. (Going by how my son's head sticks up above the seat w/out the sunshade, I would think you WOULD be able to see Cooper's head without the sunshade on)

seat2.jpg

Anyway, all kids are different sizes and my son - at least at his 18 month appointment was above average for height, weight and head - but hopefully this gives a general idea and shows that it is possible to strap a 22 month old in an infant seat with the straps at the lowest setting.

Disclaimer: My kid no longer uses this seat as it was outgrown by height before he was a year. He's in a rear-facing convertible seat now. Also, please excuse the snowman pj pants. lol. Christmas in July works right? :)
 
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