Casey and TonE Chat Logs

[debs]

What do those blue question marks represent in the documents? Is it something that's been redacted? It doesn't seem like they are normal question marks as they would be in the same font, wouldn't they? Does anyone have experience with this and know the answer?

I think it's one of the smiley family. I'm not sure whether it's or or :doh:

 

[LisaNY]

I think it's one of the smiley family. I'm not sure whether it's or or :doh:

It looks alot like the one in the middle. Is there any way you could do a side by side??

Oh wait :doh: ... wrong thread :innocent:

 

[MAMABEAR]

It looks alot like the one in the middle. Is there any way you could do a side by side??

Oh wait :doh: ... wrong thread :innocent:

:crazy:
OMG----way 2 funny. Thanks!

 

[lin]

Sorry, I meant proof not evidence. I misspoke.
Of course TL's sworn statements are "evidence" in the case, but they're not proof . We have absolutely no way of knowing if his statements are accurate, complete, or true.

But if anyone is interested in TL's statements, he did tell LE in his own words that he was the one who broke into the shed. Didn't he also say in the IMs to KC that he does what he wants, when he wants to?

I'm not making any accusations against TL, but I don't think there's any need to make him into some kind of saint or pretend he is KC's pitiful puppet, is there? Like she could make him break into someone's shed?

He's responsible for his own actions.

It is often helpful and illuminating to compare contrasting opinions and/or for someone to play devil's advocate. Perhaps you have information regarding this incident or in general that I do not because I'm not seeing the basis for your stance. Still early for me but I truly do not get it.

From a regular online dictionary, not a legal dictionary:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evidence?qsrc=2888

ev⋅i⋅dence   /ˈɛvɪdəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ev-i-duhns] Show IPA noun, verb, -denced, -denc⋅ing.
–noun 1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

(EMPHASIS ADDED)

 

[lin]

Sorry, I meant proof not evidence. I misspoke.
Of course TL's sworn statements are "evidence" in the case, but they're not proof . We have absolutely no way of knowing if his statements are accurate, complete, or true.

But if anyone is interested in TL's statements, he did tell LE in his own words that he was the one who broke into the shed. Didn't he also say in the IMs to KC that he does what he wants, when he wants to?

I'm not making any accusations against TL, but I don't think there's any need to make him into some kind of saint or pretend he is KC's pitiful puppet, is there? Like she could make him break into someone's shed?

He's responsible for his own actions.

Furthermore, we have absolutely no reason to assume that TL suspected anything wrong with KC breaking into her own shed or anything wrong with helping her do so. It's not as if he willingly and knowingly assisted her in breaking into someone's shed; it was hers. This was evidenced by her going through the home to get to it, which supported whatever statements she made to him at the time.

 

[lin]

But you did; you linked their innocence. You said, "they could both be innocent victims in addition to Caylee."

The way I think is that you hold no legal responsibility to find a person guilty or innocent unless you sit on the jury. Our social responsibilities, however; are different and fairness and common sense prevail. We must hold one another to moral standards that dictate the direction of our society. Not all trespasses are taken to court and we must make some judgements on our own to accept or declare wrongful actions unacceptable. It wouldn't be a healthy society if we all treated everyone innocent unless they had been tried by a court. We have to make our own judgements and register either an approval or disapproval on other peoples' actions in order to prevent our morals from degrading into nothingness.

Wonderful post. Absolutely wonderful.

I won't be inviting Robert Blake to dinner; nor did I invite OJ. I choose not to associate with criminals whether or not they've been convicted in a court of law.

 

[Phumi]

Sorry, I meant proof not evidence. I misspoke.
Of course TL's sworn statements are "evidence" in the case, but they're not proof . We have absolutely no way of knowing if his statements are accurate, complete, or true.But if anyone is interested in TL's statements, he did tell LE in his own words that he was the one who broke into the shed. Didn't he also say in the IMs to KC that he does what he wants, when he wants to?

I'm not making any accusations against TL, but I don't think there's any need to make him into some kind of saint or pretend he is KC's pitiful puppet, is there? Like she could make him break into someone's shed?

He's responsible for his own actions.

Portion colorized by me--

Seagull, I'm curious as to why you don't accept KC's friends' statements as accurate when they say something unflattering about her, and yet you have repeatedly quoted her friends as saying she was a good mother, intelligent and wouldn't hurt Caylee and seem to believe these things at face value. How do you know these statements are true? What if her friends feel guilty about not reporting her abusive behavior, and therefore won't come clean now? What if there is some other reason that they are afraid to tell the whole truth about KC? The doubts about the veracity of their statements must work both ways. Therefore, I don't understand how you can use the positive ones to support your assertions that KC could be innocent and disregard the negative ones (she asked me to break into the shed) as being unverified.

 

[debs]

Furthermore, we have absolutely no reason to assume that TL suspected anything wrong with KC breaking into her own shed or anything wrong with helping her do so. It's not as if he willingly and knowingly assisted her in breaking into someone's shed; it was hers. This was evidenced by her going through the home to get to it, which supported whatever statements she made to him at the time.

Lin, that's great insight! As we saw in the chatlogs, Casey was definitely leading TonE to believe that "her" house would be (pardon the pun) 'rent free by that Friday. So when Casey runs out of gas, and they go to the house to get the cans, it seems very likely that he thought it WAS her house, not her parents'. Why he would believe that is really for him to decide, but my guess is he JWTI Casey and didn't need to fill in the blanks of her story. I can see how easy it would have been for her to have "misplaced the key" and decide to just break the lock, saying it's no biggy and it can be replaced easily enough.

 

[lin]

Lin, that's great insight! As we saw in the chatlogs, Casey was definitely leading TonE to believe that "her" house would be (pardon the pun) 'rent free by that Friday. So when Casey runs out of gas, and they go to the house to get the cans, it seems very likely that he thought it WAS her house, not her parents'. Why he would believe that is really for him to decide, but my guess is he JWTI Casey and didn't need to fill in the blanks of her story. I can see how easy it would have been for her to have "misplaced the key" and decide to just break the lock, saying it's no biggy and it can be replaced easily enough.

Exactly and too funny on the pun. And thanks for giving me the chance to mention (brag about) my girls with the full ride scholarships. I do love it so. Anyway, if one of them needed something from the house, even though they don't even live here, I would be more upset about them not getting it than I would be about a lock. And yes, they have a way to enter the house when I'm not here, just in case, as well as having a key.

Consider also, TL saw nothing wrong with coming by at 1 a.m. or even staying the night at KC's with her parents there, according to this chat log. Something led him to this. It's not normal for anyone I know to have sleepovers with opposite gender friends even when much younger, much less at their age.

We tend to think as responsible adults and it's a totally different mindset when one is their age. When KC ordered LP out of her house, I'm sure she meant it and her parents probably saw nothing wrong with it. Same with my girls; this is their home and always will be, as long as I'm in it, regardless of where they store most of their things. One of my girls likes to "play in mom's closet" meaning go through and grab clothes to borrow. I'm always pushing food off on them and their friends. None would think twice about helping themselves to anything in the kitchen whether or not I was home.

Of course, with KC, even normal college kid logic wouldn't apply 'cos she's just... different.

 

[weasel]

In the chat log.. 2 things stand out to me:

in 3 days to be exact...


and the second one.. Jules is a funny girl on JUNE 12, 4 days prior to Caylee's death. She speaks of Jules.. could this be Juliette Lewis?

I think "Jules" aka Juliette Lewis is part of Casey's fantasy "I'm an event's coordinator" world. It sounds like a cool job. If you were going to make up a job, wouldn't you want a cool one to impress people with? I think Casey had this big, elaborate fantasy world in her mind complete with fake people. Ever seen the movie "Natural Born Killers" with Juliette Lewis? I'm fairly certain that's where she came up with that name. Remember Scott Peterson's fantasy world where he's a big time, globe-trotting sales rep? Same thing.

 

[January.]

I think "Jules" aka Juliette Lewis is part of Casey's fantasy "I'm an event's coordinator" world. It sounds like a cool job. If you were going to make up a job, wouldn't you want a cool one to impress people with? I think Casey had this big, elaborate fantasy world in her mind complete with fake people. Ever seen the movie "Natural Born Killers" with Juliette Lewis? I'm fairly certain that's where she came up with that name. Remember Scott Peterson's fantasy world where he's a big time, globe-trotting sales rep? Same thing.

Exactly. Plus, if I remember correctly, she had mentioned she was watching "Natural Born Killers" in one of her blogs on MySpace. I'm sure that's what sparked her imaginary "Juliette Lewis" friend.

 

[ibyoungr]

I think "Jules" aka Juliette Lewis is part of Casey's fantasy "I'm an event's coordinator" world. It sounds like a cool job. If you were going to make up a job, wouldn't you want a cool one to impress people with? I think Casey had this big, elaborate fantasy world in her mind complete with fake people. Ever seen the movie "Natural Born Killers" with Juliette Lewis? I'm fairly certain that's where she came up with that name. Remember Scott Peterson's fantasy world where he's a big time, globe-trotting sales rep? Same thing.

I know that... maybe you misunderstand why the quote stoood out to me.
The quote about Jules stands out to me only because this is June 12th and Jules(her make-believe friend-Juliette from Universal) is mentioned for the first time prior to the murder of Caylee to one of her friends/boyfriends. She did mentioned only a "nanny" in these chat logs and not a ZFG. I believe all other mentions of a Juliette Lewis comes after June 16th.
Did she use the name J Lewis with Cindy around the 26-30th of June during the lies about the ZFG car crash?? If not, then the next mention is during the interrogation after Caylee was reported missing.

I know Casey lived in a fantasy world of make-believe jobs and acquaintances. The chat log either shows 1 of 2 things. Either she used this made up friend Jules/Juliette at will as a name dropper to to have something to say.... OR SHE WAS SETTING THE SCENE FOR A PREMEDITATED MURDER.

 

[GypsyJas]

I think "Jules" aka Juliette Lewis is part of Casey's fantasy "I'm an event's coordinator" world. It sounds like a cool job. If you were going to make up a job, wouldn't you want a cool one to impress people with? I think Casey had this big, elaborate fantasy world in her mind complete with fake people. Ever seen the movie "Natural Born Killers" with Juliette Lewis? I'm fairly certain that's where she came up with that name. Remember Scott Peterson's fantasy world where he's a big time, globe-trotting sales rep? Same thing.

Absolutely. I do not think much of anything Casey says is true; she has concocted this fantasy cast of characters that she likes to present to people to support all the BS she feeds them. Mallory was going to school to be an event coordinator...so she probably borrowed from that reality and twisted it to suit hers. Some people have a hard time understanding how she can just chat with TL or whomever and just lie so freely and make up entire conversations and people simply based on her imagination...but I believe there's a part of her that almost believes her own BS. It's easier for her to make things up and put out a false appearance then it is so actually go to school, get a job and be a good mother...you know -- mature, adult stuff.

 

[Jolynna]

IMO, Casey first started using the Zani, Juliette and Tom names to keep her mother and father from nagging her about GETTING a job. Casey probably intended to put together a resume and go look, eventually. In the meantime it was more fun to text and talk and surf. And to avoid being bothered, scolded and harrassed while doing so, Casey lied and made up names of associates and a nanny.

Casey also wanted to fit in with her friends. She even wanted to be admired. So she gave herself a nice title and said she made lots of money.

I don't think Casey was planning on doing anything to Caylee when she began concocting the work stories. After the *BIG FIGHT*, I think Casey thought living in her parent's home was a fate worse than death. Casey was trapped in her room with a needy two-year-old with her bossy parents just outside her door. Tony, true love and eternal happiness were only blocks away at Tony's apartment.

Like Penny Beadreau and Diane Downs and Susan Smith, Casey didn't want anyone (especially her mother) to know she was a "bad mother" that was sick of her kid.

While Casey's final trigger might have been tripped over something as simple as Cindy not picking up the phone so Cindy could be talked into babysitting, I think it was the culmination of pressures from family, over-idealizing Tony and love, a 2-year-old that was becoming more and more of a responsibility, and, most of all, selfishness led to Caylee's demise.

On the day Casey killed Caylee, I think Casey woke up just toying with the idea (as she may have done many times before). At some point though,I believe Casey's thoughts became a deliberate decision.

IMO

 

[cyn0matic]

I haven't seen much speculation here connecting this "G&C Moving Out and Giving the House to Casey" fantasy with George's supposed embroilment in a Nigerian 419 scam. Those scams are models of how to "string along" people. George could have told Casey, just a few more days, and I'll have this windfall, millions of dollars, and you and Caylee can have the house and do whatever you want, while CA and I will take a long restful vacation.

Remember the early jail visit where GA is very sorrowful, saying, I haven't been such a great father, please forgive me. And KC sure hasn't "said anything" about how this scam related to her goals.

Well, I'm not sure if the timing might be off. Still, that kind of fantastic money coming in could have fed a lot of the KC fantasies.

 

[essies]

Absolutely. I do not think much of anything Casey says is true; she has concocted this fantasy cast of characters that she likes to present to people to support all the BS she feeds them. Mallory was going to school to be an event coordinator...so she probably borrowed from that reality and twisted it to suit hers. Some people have a hard time understanding how she can just chat with TL or whomever and just lie so freely and make up entire conversations and people simply based on her imagination...but I believe there's a part of her that almost believes her own BS. It's easier for her to make things up and put out a false appearance then it is so actually go to school, get a job and be a good mother...you know -- mature, adult stuff.

:Welcome-12-june:Good post! By the way-where did you hear that Mallory was going to school to be an event coordinator? The way KC pulls bits and pieces from everywhere and weaves them together to create her fantasy world is truly diabolical. At this point we don't know how much is coincidence and how much is deliberate BS on her part-but, we're getting there!! Like MAMABEAR says "It's all coming together."

 

[aks1114]

The link to these im's are blocked from my work. Does anyone know any other place these im's are located? Thanks

 

[eg@gm]

Another thing...she tells TonE that Jules is her friend that she sees at her nanny's and that it is "her" kid that Caylee always plays with. The way she says this is like she had told TonE before that Caylee has a regular playmate and Jules is the mother. Why make up a friend for your daughter, too? Do you think there may be some truth here?

 

[Mama-cita]

Another thing...she tells TonE that Jules is her friend that she sees at her nanny's and that it is "her" kid that Caylee always plays with. The way she says this is like she had told TonE before that Caylee has a regular playmate and Jules is the mother. Why make up a friend for your daughter, too? Do you think there may be some truth here?

No, not at all. She made up such elaborate lies, she often included details that were unneccesary which is something that someone has a propensity to lie does in order to make their story more believable. IMO, it goes to show premeditation more than anything. Where is "Jules" and her child now? Certainly, if they existed, they would have been found by now. Sorta like Zanny the InvisiNanny...in fact there are a lot of missing people! Jules, or Juliette Lewis, Zanny, Samantha and their gaggle full of kids, Jeffrey Michael Hopkins (not to be confused with Jeffery Dale Hopkins from Colonial HS), Raquel...who am I missing? All these people are "MISSING" or they never existed to begin with. I am going with the latter...

 

[GypsyJas]

kc had a nice guy in Jesse and got bored of him. Nice Guys aren't "cool". They aren't exciting. They aren't organizing parties. Do we really have to get into the whole nice guy jerk debate here that's done over and over again on daytime television? Jerks do have behaviors that are highly attractive to women. Simply examine your own relationship histories. Usually sometime in her late 20s or 30s women realize that it might be more intelligent to ditch the "gansta" for the engineer making 6 figures. KC was obviously not there yet and just entering her bad boy phase after dispensing with Jesse. In fact she turned Jesse into the loyal friend she could go to when her bad boys did something "bad".

Funny you should say that b/c I always thought Jesse was a nice, well-spoken, intelligent young guy...and his love for Caylee is something you would think the entire Anthony clan would appreciate considering all he'd been through with their darling Casey. I always wondered why all of them are so willing to throw him under the bus like they have and accuse him of the unthinkable....