Casey and TonE Chat Logs

[OneLostGrl]

Yes, like a stage mom mouthing the words to a song and moving her arms to the dance while her little tiny would be beauty queen daughter does her act for the judges, that is what Cindy reminds me of. I can't even imagine George's tortured life with her all these years, Oh, that was mean, God is gonna get me.

hah, he's gettin' me too. No biggie, ya get used to the idea after awhile LOL

 

[Ripley007]

Thanks mmm. Sometimes I go overboard trying to make a point.

If the climate in our land is that you meet somebody, hop in the sack right away, and then blame the other guy when things go wrong (noone would imagine a dead baby), then you get what you get I guess. Noone to blame but yourself when something bad happens.

My point is we should be teaching young people to respect one another and to get to know one another prior to serious involvement. It hurts people when they feel they've been taken advantage of when things don't work out. Some things (regardless of woman's lib) stay the same. It's no fun to be used or to be "left" in someone's dust.

Just pointing out that it was TL's choice to involve himself with a woman who had a kid (KC moved in for cry'n out loud). I agree he was right to feel uncomfortable allowing/regularly having a baby in the house when they wanted to sit around and smoke pot, screw and basically live for their own carnal enjoyment.

TL in his wildest dreams could not have imagined that his "no Caylee rule" would contribute to her death. But it looks as if it did. He'll have to live with that.

My fantasy world says he should have considered that KC did have a baby. Did he think about how his mother took care of him? It wasn't as if they went on a few dates - he was letting her stay at his place fulltime. What does he think she did with her child? Was he that dense?

We are connected. People do not live in a vacuum. My actions cause reactions.

I get what you are saying...but keep in mind, both KC and TonE are very young. They cannot be expected to have the wisdom and knowleged that many of here posting have.
I object to the comment that TL will have to live with knowledge of what his "no Caylee rule" did. He COULD NOT have imagined what lengths KC would take this to...IMO he does NOT deserve to suffer with any guilt pains. I never read any texts or IM's from him where he was promising KC the moon! KC's own texts and IM'S read as if her and TonE had been together MUCH longer than they actually had. TL didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

At that age, with that kind of social life, TonE's mindset was probabably that Casey was just an extended f^c@. Sadly, women do it too.. it happens all the time, it's a sign of the times! Quite a bit of how we go about entering into relationships these days is "wrong" IMO.

Men who get involved with women who have kids when they themselves have no interest in having children around pi$$ me off too but this being in anyway his fault? the world will never be what it should be. People will never act how they should or how we want them to. It is our job (well, first it's our PARENTS job to teach us, often by example) to learn to handle losing, upset, anger, sadness, disapointment, rejection.. in reasonably healthy manner. People get used and neglected all the time by men and they don't kill their kids.

You guys have to quit putting words into my mouth. I never said that I think that TL killed Caylee or that her death is solely his fault. I'm just pointing out that he is part of the situation that led to her death.

In an earlier post I mentioned women's lib. It's made no difference in regards to who gets blamed when there is sex involved and a pregnancy results. It's always the woman who is a wh*r*, loosey goosey, bad girl, etc. Afterall, a woman should not want to have or enjoy sex. But it is okay for a guy to go around doing "it" all he wants - no judgment "boys will be boys" - nothing has changed as far as I can tell since the 1920's! It pisses me off! Lets count KC's boyfriends - 1, 2, 3, ...100 - bad girl, sl*t. Lets count TL's girlfriends - 1, 3, 6, .....300 - oh well, just a "normal guy". All the girls he's been with are a bunch of sl*ts but he's a topnotch guy. I'm sick of the double standard in our society. It makes me sick.

The woman is still being made to feel unequal to the man. Yet she is the one, when things go wrong, that should have controlled herself.

So let's not lie to our girls. It is up to them to keep their legs closed because if they don't they will be called sl*t and wh*r* and possibly be left to raise a child on their own. And, when they do have sex, make sure they know there is supposed to be something in it for them (aside from love) on the physical level.

For the above reasons, as much as I distrust KC, I don't like it when she is portrayed "bad" for her sex behavior, that is, without her partners receiving equal judgment.

Let me mention here, that on a Fusion Flyer, that KC helped to distribute, it stated "18 to *advertiser censored*, 21 to swallow". Nice, huh? TL was not into elevating the image of women imho.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I get what you are saying...but keep in mind, both KC and TonE are very young. They cannot be expected to have the wisdom and knowleged that many of here posting have.
I object to the comment that TL will have to live with knowledge of what his "no Caylee rule" did. He COULD NOT have imagined what lengths KC would take this to...IMO he does NOT deserve to suffer with any guilt pains. I never read any texts or IM's from him where he was promising KC the moon! KC's own texts and IM'S read as if her and TonE had been together MUCH longer than they actually had. TL didn't do anything wrong.

You can object. I accept that. But if I were involved in this big of a nightmare when I was a "kid", I don't think it would just go away from my memory easily. I would probably be haunted by it for a long time to come. Whether TL deserves guilt pains or not I can't say, but I bet he'll have them. Guilt has a way of creeping up on you.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Did you expect Casey would have church going (ok, there's Amy that goes to church but... I won't go there ) with no substances issues or casual sex? Come on, these are the people Casey surrounded herself with... birds of a feather and all that, Woe. They are the exact type one would expect Casey to surround herself with.. just as D from KFN is just the type one would expect George to surround himself with, IMO.

But compared to Casey.. to George & Cindy? I think these kids are indeed innocent kids. They are still young, making the dumb mistakes that most humans do while in the process of growing into who they will eventually become. Their fate isn't decided yet, so far they have made pretty decent choices (far better than the choices the Anthony's have made- even BEFORE Caylee went missing), actually going to college instead of lying about it- many of them have landed pretty good jobs and have managed to hold onto them.

Also, in reading the documents (not going by what the media says about the documents) I found they were all far more forthcoming and consistant then Cindy, George and Lee combined. IMO, Casey was moving UP with her group of friends.

No expectations regarding KC's friends. Don't know them. Going by what we've been told, what I see to form my opinions. Don't feel protective of them either. Don't know them. Some peeps here seem protective over certain ones. If you know a person I can see why that would be. But, me, I'm just stating what I observe and pick up from the interviews and evidence. Adding my opinions about life now and then for what they are worth. I have sought and do seek a higher ground and don't want/like to see morality go down hill - it hurts people, little people and big people.

Makes me think of a saying, "By the grace of God, there go I." Is that right?

We sound like a bunch of CA's when we justify peep's involvement and a no consequences to our choices/actions attitude. Some of us just get to see the light at dusk rather than when it's pitch black or something like that.

 

[Jolynna]

You guys have to quit putting words into my mouth. I never said that I think that TL killed Caylee or that her death is solely his fault. I'm just pointing out that he is part of the situation that led to her death.

In an earlier post I mentioned women's lib. It's made no difference in regards to who gets blamed when there is sex involved and a pregnancy results. It's always the woman who is a wh*r*, loosey goosey, bad girl, etc. Afterall, a woman should not want to have or enjoy sex. But it is okay for a guy to go around doing "it" all he wants - no judgment "boys will be boys" - nothing has changed as far as I can tell since the 1920's! It pisses me off! Lets count KC's boyfriends - 1, 2, 3, ...100 - bad girl, sl*t. Lets count TL's girlfriends - 1, 3, 6, .....300 - oh well, just a "normal guy". All the girls he's been with are a bunch of sl*ts but he's a topnotch guy. I'm sick of the double standard in our society. It makes me sick.

The woman is still being made to feel unequal to the man. Yet she is the one, when things go wrong, that should have controlled herself.

So let's not lie to our girls. It is up to them to keep their legs closed because if they don't they will be called sl*t and wh*r* and possibly be left to raise a child on their own. And, when they do have sex, make sure they know there is supposed to be something in it for them (aside from love) on the physical level.

For the above reasons, as much as I distrust KC, I don't like it when she is portrayed "bad" for her sex behavior, that is, without her partners receiving equal judgment.

Let me mention here, that on a Fusion Flyer, that KC helped to distribute, it stated "18 to *advertiser censored*, 21 to swallow". Nice, huh? TL was not into elevating the image of women imho.

As disgusting as the Fusion flyers were, they were honest. Tony did not try to hide his lifestyle. Casey could accept or reject.

Tony did not lead Casey on. He told her he would leave if something better (a job in NY) came along. He told her he wanted sons. He asked Casey to participate in a "hot body" contest. He did not offer to change his lifestyle so his his home would be a refuge for Caylee and Casey during Casey's time of need. Just as Tony knew, going into the relationship, that Casey was a "mom", Casey knew, going in, that Tony was a college kid and not someone in a position to take on a family.

Tony thought Casey was a hard worker with a good head on her shoulders. Casey told him she had $15k in her two bank accounts. Casey said she was going to school. Casey even said she'd be moving in with Amy soon. Tony was looking for a house to move into with 2 friends (not Casey). Tony had no reason to be concerned about Caylee, according to Casey, Caylee was off with the rich super nanny going to theme parks for over a month.

There is no way to compare Casey's lies and the murder of Caylee to anything Tony did.


IMO

 

[MsRyber]

Exactly how much clearer was TL supposed to be?

I have been with a couple of guys who obviously were looking for a fling and I tried to get them to want something more. There were no delusions on my part. I purposely used sex to try to get them to "want me" and did what I could so they could see my "wifey" abilities....btw, it NEVER worked out, wonder why? LOL

The guys were clear they were just wanting to "hang out". Friends with benefits.

KC's life was based on manipulating. She may have even looked at TL as a challenge. "Surely he won't be able to resist my charm! He SHALL be mine!"

TL was honest with her from the beginning. And you know what? Times HAVE changed. I know for my close friends and myself, there were many, MANY nights of one-nighters, 2-3 month "affairs" etc. TL didn't feed her "lines", no delusions that he wanted a long time girlfriend, etc.

It was going to be a summer fling, no ifs and's or but's about it. I sense it, I feel it in the texts, the interviews, etc. He WASN'T that into her.
She was not going to be his wife.
IMO, that night with her crying on the bed when he was joking about leaving FL made him realize she was taking things WAY to serious for his liking.

No one said he was an angel in this. But it takes TWO to tango, and people forget that KC knew what was going on, and she was trying to manipulate him into something more. Call a spade a spade, she was using sex to try to get what she wanted from him, not the other way around. If she was offering, he was taking. It can work both ways.

I have had a friend with benefits like that. HE wanted more. I wanted sex. Plain and simple. Does that make me a bad person? No. I was clear with him I didn't want anything more. I feel bad for TL. I don't think there is such thing as "a sl*t" or a "typical guy". If they are both consenting adults, then it is unfair to play the blame game.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

As disgusting as the Fusion flyers were, they were honest. That is who Tony was. The women he met could take it or leave it.

Tony did not lead Casey on. He told her he would leave if something better (a job in NY) came along. He told her he wanted sons. He asked Casey to participate in a "hot body" contest. He did not offer to change his lifestyle so his his home would be a refuge for Caylee and Casey during Casey's time of need. Just as Tony knew, going into the relationship, that Casey was a "mom", Casey knew, going in, that Tony was a college kid and not someone in a position to take on a family.

Tony thought Casey was a hard worker with a good head on her shoulders. Casey was chomping at the bit to move in with her friend Amy. Casey had $15k in her two bank accounts. She was going to school. Caylee wasn't a problem because Casey earned so much she could afford a super nanny to watch Caylee 24/7.

Ummmmmm...Tony thought Caylee was alive...

I acknowledge your reply. You summed the situation up well. TL is part of the story. Nothing anyone can do will change that. The famous case of the Caylee murder in Florida will always have his name involved with it. He hooked up with the wrong girl, truthful or not.

Obviously noone else is getting what I mean to be saying. It's not really about TL. It's about how people treat one another. And it's about wanting something for nothing.

 

[OneLostGrl]

You guys have to quit putting words into my mouth. I never said that I think that TL killed Caylee or that her death is solely his fault. I'm just pointing out that he is part of the situation that led to her death.

In an earlier post I mentioned women's lib. It's made no difference in regards to who gets blamed when there is sex involved and a pregnancy results. It's always the woman who is a wh*r*, loosey goosey, bad girl, etc. Afterall, a woman should not want to have or enjoy sex. But it is okay for a guy to go around doing "it" all he wants - no judgment "boys will be boys" - nothing has changed as far as I can tell since the 1920's! It pisses me off! Lets count KC's boyfriends - 1, 2, 3, ...100 - bad girl, sl*t. Lets count TL's girlfriends - 1, 3, 6, .....300 - oh well, just a "normal guy". All the girls he's been with are a bunch of sl*ts but he's a topnotch guy. I'm sick of the double standard in our society. It makes me sick.

The woman is still being made to feel unequal to the man. Yet she is the one, when things go wrong, that should have controlled herself.

So let's not lie to our girls. It is up to them to keep their legs closed because if they don't they will be called sl*t and wh*r* and possibly be left to raise a child on their own. And, when they do have sex, make sure they know there is supposed to be something in it for them (aside from love) on the physical level.

For the above reasons, as much as I distrust KC, I don't like it when she is portrayed "bad" for her sex behavior, that is, without her partners receiving equal judgment.

Let me mention here, that on a Fusion Flyer, that KC helped to distribute, it stated "18 to *advertiser censored*, 21 to swallow". Nice, huh? TL was not into elevating the image of women imho.

Let me start by saying I have never put words into your mouth.. I would never, I think you know that. and I have never taken part in any discussion proclaiming Casey to be "bad" because she slept around, nor have I defended anyone she has ever slept with. The opposite is true actually, I spoke of how I "got" the "*advertiser censored*" issues (ya know, the post about feeling worthless..?)

Anyone who sleeps around has issues, IMO. ANYONE- male, female, black, white, old, ugly, it don't matter wtf a person is covering up with their panties, a *advertiser censored* is a *advertiser censored*! And searching for love in the wrong places is not going to help us find it- if anything it makes it that much more difficult.

Sadly, if more parents reinforced (by loving & accepting their children, by encouraging and helping along good self esteem and sense of self.. by teaching them to expect and demand respect from those they spend time with. By teaching them to respect others, by giving them a happy, healthy home, setting good standards and place some decent morals in their minds from early childhood... i could go on but I'll stop..) the logic you present in your post it would be a very different world. No doubt, a wonderful one!

This goes far beyond the Casey's and TonE's of the world and IMO has far more to do with how people feel about themselves, are taught to think of themselves and what they feel they deserve than any womans lib movement. I'm teaching my son that it's "being a *advertiser censored*" if you sleep around and that sex should mean something, that protecting himself is HIS job etc. It's my JOB to teach him these things.. I sure hope others teach their children the same thing! boy, girl, cat, dog, whoever!

Our children learn from us... We give them their self worth... I know this. I don't care what anyone says.

TonE took was what offered, so what? Why does that make HIM bad and HER not? They were both *advertiser censored*, so what?! I'm not seeing the sexism in the way of which you speak. What do the FUSION flyers have to do with TonE and what his thoughts on "elevating" women are?

 

[Ripley007]

You can object. I accept that. But if I were involved in this big of a nightmare when I was a "kid", I don't think it would just go away from my memory easily. I would probably be haunted by it for a long time to come. Whether TL deserves guilt pains or not I can't say, but I bet he'll have them. Guilt has a way of creeping up on you.

WBG- I am right there with you MOST of the time...I agree, TL, may have nightmares and his direction in life may change or be altered by KC and HER crime, however, IMHO TonE doesn't DESERVE the guilt he may or may not feel now or in the future...

 

[ziggy]

WBG- I am right there with you MOST of the time...I agree, TL, may have nightmares and his direction in life may change or be altered by KC and HER crime, however, IMHO TonE doesn't DESERVE the guilt he may or may not feel now or in the future...

He's acted like a stand up guy as far as I can tell since he found about Caylee's disappearance, but with respect to before...I think he should feel guilty about treating a young mother as a c*m receptacle. JMO

 

[Searchfortruth]

I can't help it, there have been times when reading Tony's chat/text messages that I have felt anger at him. IMO, he is an inmature young man with a lot to learn about how to treat women. His comment about only wanting boys ticked me off too, like you can choose what sex you are going to have, actually it's the man's doing, but that's another subject. Even with the fact that Tony may not be voted nice young bachelor of the year, he has no part in Caylee's death, that responsibiity rests on Casey's shoulders alone.

 

[sumbunny]

I don't believe Tony was "into" Casey at all. The things he said to her in their chats was probably typed to rile her. He said it himself...she cleaned his house, washed his clothes, cooked,helped him promote his dj gigs and was readily available to sleep with.


She herself is to blame for murdering her child, and allowing a man to treat her that way.

 

[Theonly1]

I acknowledge your reply. You summed the situation up well. TL is part of the story. Nothing anyone can do will change that. The famous case of the Caylee murder in Florida will always have his name involved with it. He hooked up with the wrong girl, truthful or not.

Obviously noone else is getting what I mean to be saying. It's not really about TL. It's about how people treat one another. And it's about wanting something for nothing.

Coming in late to this conversation:

How could TonE have mitigated the situation though--other than being a different person? He's the typical male student of the DJ variety, away from his hometown, living with a bushel of roommates, playing video games, allegedly smoking the ganja, taking night classes, having a weird schedule, and so on. Casey is the chameleon saying everything he wants to hear and doing everything he wants to do. She was not honest with him about her job (or lack of one), her relationship with her parents, her other ongoing physical relationships, that she was stealing to finance their meals, or even what she wanted from him. Casey was coming from a place of dishonesty that was not bred in her by TonE (as we know she lied to Jessie, Ricardo, and so on).

So, we have Casey trying desperately to fit his square peg in her round hole so to speak. He's just cruising along like many young males his age do, like you said getting "something for nothing", but he seemingly was honest about some major facts like not wanting a child around partying, in the bed with them at night, and so on. To me, that is a healthier approach than having the child around partying or seeing non-parental (or parental--gag) sex in the bed. Further, he was letting Casey know in that immature male way that he was not that into her. Did he come out and spell it out for her? Not that I know of. But anyone with logic and common sense can read between the lines of their text messages and see that he did not love her and she tried to use sex and jealousy to manipulate him (did not work too well). Should he not have engaged with her when he knew it wasn't likely to go further? Perhaps. I bet he won't make that mistake again!

He knew she had a child before he "dated" her so it could not be Caylee that really got in the way. Perhaps she moved too soon and too fast for his liking. Does that make him "guilty" because he did not want Caylee at his pad but was willing to take Casey in? I'm sure he had no clue about her InvisiNanny ruse. Was he supposed to be so principaled as to send her home to be with her child? Perhaps.

If he's guilty for simply sticking his square peg in her round hole then there are also a lot of men around O-Town with the same guilt.

To me, if we are going to ration guilt around I can find two other people closer to her who bear more the weight of it (in my mind) that the luckless TonE.

Just my .02.

 

[Theonly1]

I don't believe Tony was "into" Casey at all. The things he said to her in their chats was probably typed to rile her. He said it himself...she cleaned his house, washed his clothes, cooked,helped him promote his dj gigs and was readily available to sleep with.


She herself is to blame for murdering her child, and allowing a man to treat her that way.

I'll take it a step further and say that she was likely subconsciously LOOKING for a man to treat her that way. Look at how she played her game with Jesse! He seemed to be a man who would love Caylee and play happy family. It seems to me that got boring for Case.

Had she not found TonE she would have found another one just like him--dime a dozen.

 

[Noddy]

I'll take it a step further and say that she was likely subconsciously LOOKING for a man to treat her that way. Look at how she played her game with Jesse! He seemed to be a man who would love Caylee and play happy family. It seems to me that got boring for Case.

Had she not found TonE she would have found another one just like him--dime a dozen.

Even Kio Marie's dog's MySpace page has a blog (by the dog:crazy with a statement about KC's desperate need to belong. Obviously the reference to mom and dad is Kio M and Nick. This snip was taken from Scooter's MySpace before it went private but was written prior to 2008.

 

[Valhall]

I really think the motive is clear. Contrary to what CA says half the time, there was a big fight on the weekend of Father's day. A knock-down-drag-out fight and CA told KC she was fed up and things had to change. After that fight, KC spent the majority of the night on the phone with TL. She was probably telling him the whole "my parents are getting a divorce and I can't stay here anymore" story. She probably talked him into letting her stay at his place - but had to negotiate...he wasn't going to have Caylee there ALL of the time, or spending nights.

She knocked Caylee off so she could move in full-time with TL. period.

my 2 cents.

 

[JWG]

I really think the motive is clear. Contrary to what CA says half the time, there was a big fight on the weekend of Father's day. A knock-down-drag-out fight and CA told KC she was fed up and things had to change. After that fight, KC spent the majority of the night on the phone with TL. She was probably telling him the whole "my parents are getting a divorce and I can't stay here anymore" story. She probably talked him into letting her stay at his place - but had to negotiate...he wasn't going to have Caylee there ALL of the time, or spending nights.

She knocked Caylee off so she could move in full-time with TL. period.

my 2 cents.

In Tony's Sept. 8 interview the detectives as him specifically about KC and Cindy fighting, and he knows nothing of such an incident. He said KC essentially complained about Cindy a lot, but never described an all-out fight. The night of the 15th / morning of the 16th he describes the calls and texts as "lovey-dovey" and "pillow talk".

 

[okiedokietoo]

Tony is not "the" nor "a" bad guy.
He wanted boys...what's the big deal - I know a lot of couples that want 2 girls or 2 boys or the first child to be a boy.
Their relationship was 50/50.
He didn't take advantage of KC.
If she didn't like him she could have stopped seeing him - she had people lined up as the "next mark"....IMO

 

[Kentjbkent]

Tony is not "the" nor "a" bad guy.
He wanted boys...what's the big deal - I know a lot of couples that want 2 girls or 2 boys or the first child to be a boy.
Their relationship was 50/50.
He didn't take advantage of KC.
If she didn't like him she could have stopped seeing him - she had people lined up as the "next mark"....IMO

I always believed he made that comment strictly for the "fun" of riling KC anyway. I think he found it entertaining when he pushed her buttons, and there is no crime in that.