Casey and TonE Chat Logs

[RR0004]

(snipped)

I agree- I personally don't think the name calling, even to her friends, is that big of a deal. It depends on the context its used in. Some people joke around more than others- and nicknames that might be offensive by the dictionary definition are used endearingly. Like you said- monster, rugrat, etc. Its called the "terrible twos" for a reason! haha

At least here, it doesn't seem to there was real "animosity" towards Caylee. A woman I used to know would refer to her daughter as "princess" but would say it in such a condescending, mean way- like she was jealous. "Oh yes the princess will only wear her old ugly pink dress, not the new expensive blue dresses I bought her. The little princess should be grateful she gets anything" etc etc. That IMO is a lot more worrisome than off-handedly calling your child a brat.

I think its hard to read this stuff objectively b/c we know everything else that happens. And just to add- I'm not saying KC didn't have animosity towards Caylee, I'm just saying this specific IM doesn't do it for me.

Oh and the "passed the f* out" - its sort of a common saying now among college kids. I've heard more than a bunch of times "I drank too much, I just went home and passed the F out." The only thing I think it shows is that KC didn't really think of herself as a mature mother- just as a typical party sl&t.

My 3rd child didn't sleep through the night till he was 4 1/2 yo. We all had a few choice words for him. LOL

 

[RR0004]

Thanks for the clarification. I did not think I muddied the waters with the "robbed at gunpoint" quotes. What I think was untenable was the fact that she in fact CLAIMED SHE WAS ROBBED AT GUNPOINT. Whose money it was, whether it came from the sale of a car, whether they loaned 4k to her while she wasn't getting paychecks, or whether she worked and was to pay money to the A's, was not the point I was trying to make. She was off telling her parents REAL WHOPPERS and I don't think the whoppers were flying well hence the family stress, strain and dynamics.

Could it have explained the fake $4000 deposit she supposedly made to CA's account?

 

[lawlady84]

You may be right but it's not an uncommon thing for a young child or toddler to say, in my experience and I can guarantee with 100% certainty that my children were not exposed to gansta-speak. In fact, my youngest girl, 6, has a shirt that says, "I'm in charge here. The parents are just for show."

Also just for reference - on the old TV show "Full House," when Michelle (the youngest one- played by the Olsen twins) was a toddler, she used to say "You got it dude!" and "I'm the boss!"

I think its just something cute people teach their kids to say - you don't expect an adorable little girl to say something like that. Like the Will Ferrell video of "Pearl" the landlord - they taught his friends toddler to say hilarious things, like "The rent is due- give me my money!" "I've been drinking all day"

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/74/the-landlord-from-will-ferrell-and-adam-ghost-panther-mckay

(there's some cursing, be forewarned)

 

[LCoastMom]

Now, in the October interview with TL it's stated that she said the As weren't together. Well, which one was it??!! I guess he could have left in a blink of an eye. Sssssh!

That exchange was on 6-10, I think her folks "split up" in July and that's when her mom was so glad she had TonE to go to for support and Caylee was being left with the nanny all the time because of all the ugliness in her parents house that KC didn't want to expose her to.

 

[Theonly1]

Maybe Casey hoped that by telling pitiful tales about her parents some boyfriend would off one or both of them for her? Speculation: "Ohhhh, my brother molested me as a child and I told my mother and she wouldn't do anything about it...wahhhhh..." or "My Daddy physically abused me...."

 

[Whisperer]

Originally Posted by truecrime
Sounds like there may have been some words exchanged between mom and daughter that very evening because of how Caylee acted before bed:
CA "My mom is in bed, my dad is working till 11 or so. the kid is passed the out."
L7tone "Oh"
CA "She kept telling mom that she's a boss, and was patting herself on the chest.?

Any thoughts?
_____________
Definitely!

This is significant to me, TrueCrime, because I think Caylee was copying what her mother was always telling her..."I AM THE BOSS", says kc, loud and clear. kc is on a power trip and would show her daughter who is the boss. This tactic was never shown in front of CA and GA, but more than likely when she was alone with her baby. I have no doubt in my mind that kc would drug Caylee at night if she wanted to go out and any other night if she had to, if Caylee did not go to sleep early. Caylee was mimicking what she heard kc say all the time.....and kc showed her, didn't she?

 

[lin]

When I look at her communication with these boyfriends, I see what Jesse G. described, a chameleon, someone willing to adapt to the person she is with at the moment. She did it with all of her boyfriends, it seems. That says, IMO, that she has a very poor sense of self. She gives off a feeling of desperation, but I am not quite sure if that's what it is. It doesn't match with the cold blooded killer personae she has shown.

Check out borderline personality disorder. It shares a lot of characteristics with narcissistic personality disorder. One thing that leads me to this over other disorders, which may also be present, is the 'empty vessel' and 'role-playing' displayed by those who suffer. In essence, they have no personality of their own and take on roles that they play until they tire of them, like KC took on the role of mother for a while. Chameleon is a good descriptor because having nothing of their own to offer, they often take on the role of and appear to be like those with whom they associate. Remember how KC changed after hanging with JB a while? A good book on personality disorders that's been around forever is, "I Hate You - Don't Leave Me." The title alone suggests part of the pathology. Here are a few links and some quotes from the latter:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/borderline-personality-disorder-fact-sheet/index.shtml

or

http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/psychology/781/bpd-dsm.htm

"...Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder have a pattern of unstable and intense relationships (Criterion 2). They may idealize potential caregivers or lovers at the first or second meeting, demand to spend a lot of time together, and share the most intimate details early in a relationship. However, they may switch quickly from idealizing other people to devaluing them, feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, is not "there" enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that the other person will "be there" in return to meet their own needs on demand. These individuals are prone to sudden and dramatic shifts in their view of others, who may alternately be seen as beneficent supports or as cruelly punitive..."

"...There may be an identity disturbance characterized by markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self (Criterion 3). There are sudden and dramatic shifts in self-image, characterized by shifting goals, values, and vocational aspirations. There may be sudden changes in opinions and plans about career, sexual identity, values, and types of friends..."

"...The basic dysphoric mood of those with Borderline Personality Disorder is often disrupted by periods of anger, panic, or despair and is rarely relieved by periods of well-being or satisfaction. These episodes may reflect the individual’s extreme reactivity troubled by chronic feelings of emptiness (Criterion 7). Easily bored, they may constantly seek something to do. Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder frequently express inappropriate, intense anger or have difficulty controlling their anger (Criterion 8). They may display extreme sarcasm, enduring bitterness, or verbal outbursts. The anger is often elicited when a caregiver or lover is seen as neglectful, withholding, uncaring, or abandoning..."

 

[MAMABEAR]

I have often wondered if George and Cindy were next.

30 days later, she needed one more day....

1. Self Defense
2. Neck Breaking
3. Chloroform

Was Lee in on half the proceeds?

I have been thinking that she had GA and CA was in her pathway for sometime now. Have thought about LA being in on it but haven't pinned him down to that yet. Maybe ya'll have talked more in this thread so I better get back to page 1. LOL

 

[Theonly1]

When I get up the stamina I'm going to go back to the CA videos taped by FBI and LE. I know she tells quite some stories about the vacation/s she was scheduled for, the beach, etc. Something about the stories and what we knew at the point the videos were released made me ASSUME CA had kind of manipulated Casey about the vacations. Maybe I made the leap but when you figure in the time period Casey would have asked for the time off, and all the time CA had vacation near that PR time period, and the comments Cindy made to LE/FBI about the vacations it just seemed...well, it seemed to me like I could imagine Cindy taking ALL her vacation but not at the time of PR. Sure, maybe I totally imagined it and maybe CA books her vacation at the first of the year. I have to go back and listen to the videos.

 

[chastity]

I would be really interested to find out what she told tony and amy after those three days were up. Why weren't her parents gone?. Have I missed this or has it just not came out yet?

 

[lin]

My bold and respectfully snipped for space!

....

My opinion on the IM sessions:

I think she planned to kill CA and GA and set it up as either a murder suicide or an intruder murder. If an intruder murder then she would have stolen, hidden some things to make it look like a robbery gone bad.

The IM's tell me that Casey was insecure in the relationship. It also tells me that Tony liked Casey. He said he wanted to stop by just to say hi, even bringing coffee/tea for CA and GA. He WANTED to meet them. I don't see how some can say he's a loser. I just don't see it. It's a dance and that's what they were doing. The typical beginning of a relationship (for that age/mentality group) relationship dance. That's all, nothing else.

Also snipped for space but thanks for the mythbuster info.


ITA. TL has been very quiet so we don't know very much about their relationship but what we have seen doesn't paint him in a bad light at all, imo. Add to what I've already posted that this is the stand up guy that wore a wire for LE, showing not only who TL is but what LE thought of him. Also, I remember his surprise that KC hadn't told him about Caylee being missing; 'of all people the one that cared about her and her daughter.'

 

[lin]

(snipped)

I agree- I personally don't think the name calling, even to her friends, is that big of a deal. It depends on the context its used in. Some people joke around more than others- and nicknames that might be offensive by the dictionary definition are used endearingly. Like you said- monster, rugrat, etc. Its called the "terrible twos" for a reason! haha

At least here, it doesn't seem to there was real "animosity" towards Caylee. A woman I used to know would refer to her daughter as "princess" but would say it in such a condescending, mean way- like she was jealous. "Oh yes the princess will only wear her old ugly pink dress, not the new expensive blue dresses I bought her. The little princess should be grateful she gets anything" etc etc. That IMO is a lot more worrisome than off-handedly calling your child a brat.

I think its hard to read this stuff objectively b/c we know everything else that happens. And just to add- I'm not saying KC didn't have animosity towards Caylee, I'm just saying this specific IM doesn't do it for me.

Oh and the "passed the f* out" - its sort of a common saying now among college kids. I've heard more than a bunch of times "I drank too much, I just went home and passed the F out." The only thing I think it shows is that KC didn't really think of herself as a mature mother- just as a typical party sl&t.

Thanks and I agree except I'm not sure about the animosity in the remark. I'm not convinced one way or the other whether she was annoyed that Caylee prevented her from going or whether she was using Caylee as an excuse not to go. TR seemed to be a back burner thing; very low priority.

 

[BonKai]

I don't know why, but I have always thought that TonE called Caylee that and KC was just repeating it back to him. JMHO

As far as I have seen, she didn't IM TonE calling Caylee "snot head". KC did IM Tony R (ex-cop) calling Caylee "snot head".

 

[Theonly1]

Caylee and Puerto Rico:

I see it like this: Casey NEEDED Cindy to watch Caylee while she went to PR. Why? Because if Casey "did a runner" and left for PR without someone proper to watch Caylee then Cindy would have a perfect reason and opportunity to file for custody of Caylee, right? You may ask yourself, why would Casey even care? Well, Casey did not have her own home and Caylee was Casey's "entree" into the A family home at that point in my opinion. If Casey ran off to PR, then Cindy could have easily tried to get custody and could have put Casey's stuff at the curb (not that she would, just that she COULD). Casey could have come back to Orlando and not had a place to live. Well, she could then have tried Ricardo but he was unreliable as a bf. TonE was too new and maybe would not have been keen to take her in after a vacay with Ricardo. That's the way I see it but feel free to blow holes in my theory.

 

[BonKai]

After reading the chat log. I am amazed. I have three children and not one time in their lives have I ever used the f word when talking about them. They now have children of their own and they don't either. So, this is a new generation thing, or am I wrong?

I agree that her language regarding Caylee was disturbing to me as well. I don't think it is a generational thing. I think it is just a total disregard for respect.

 

[lin]

Also just for reference - on the old TV show "Full House," when Michelle (the youngest one- played by the Olsen twins) was a toddler, she used to say "You got it dude!" and "I'm the boss!"

I think its just something cute people teach their kids to say - you don't expect an adorable little girl to say something like that. Like the Will Ferrell video of "Pearl" the landlord - they taught his friends toddler to say hilarious things, like "The rent is due- give me my money!" "I've been drinking all day"

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/74/the-landlord-from-will-ferrell-and-adam-ghost-panther-mckay

(there's some cursing, be forewarned)

Shamefully, I thought that video was hysterical. The mom in me is shocked and appalled that anyone would teach a baby to say those things but it was funny. No matter how funny to others though, if someone had my baby saying those things I'd be hysterical in a totally different and very unpleasant way.

 

[cyberborg]

It just kinda dawned on me, that if KC was going to Puerto Rico wouldn't Cindy need to take and drop Caylee off at the "Nanny's" while she went to work? I don't think KC ever planned on going, knowing that this lie would be exposed. I guess she could have asked Cindy to take vacation time, but IIRC I think Cindy was on vacation the first week in June and first week of July and the Puerto Rico trip was the second week in July.

KC trapped in her own lies. Very true, KC HAD to be around at all times to keep everyone separated and keep the lies alive. There was too much risk the lies would start to unravel and KC's world would come crashing down.

 

[cajun]

I dont see how she thought she could possibly get away with offing the parents and cayle?! If CA was the big problem between kc and caylee, why would she kill caylee??? Get rid of the parents and problem solved(in her eyes)...cash in on some money, get the house, cars, etc, and raise your daughter the way you want. She could live her life the way she wanted without mother telling her what she is doing wrong all the time. I just dont get it. She is a sick twister person. We will never know what was really going through her head...

I don't think she wanted to raise Caylee since the day she was born, she got in the way of Casey's fun. Casey just played the part of "mom" when she was around other people or Cindy forced her too. She definitely likes to play games with other people's lives.

She reminds me of a black widow spider...seduce, reel 'em in, and then go in for the kill.

 

[lin]

I would be really interested to find out what she told tony and amy after those three days were up. Why weren't her parents gone?. Have I missed this or has it just not came out yet?

She moved in with TL due to the 'drama' with her parents.

 

[Jolynna]

sure he's a jerk. He is applying time tested gaming techniques that work. He was gaming her. he basically wants sex with her. KC is actually attracted to this guy because he's "cool" and he has social proof, and can open doors to a world she would like to be in. He is seeing if she is GF material and quickly realizing she isn't. So he is going to use her as long as she is willing. They are using each other. they deserve each other actually. these "hook ups" are a dime a dozen and have shelf lives of 3 months typically.

No, I think Casey was "in love" with being "in love".

Therefore each and every romance was to die for.

That doesn't mean she had to be faithful. She had to keep her back burners warm. Because <heaven forbid> she go a month or two not in a "relationship".

I think Tony cared for Casey as much as he was capable of caring for anyone. He didn't invest any interest in Caylee because he didn't want to be attached at this point in his life. That doesn't mean he didn't appreciate Casey's companionship, the sex or the cooking and cleaning.

Casey did.

What else was Casey gonna do???? Stay with her mom? I think she was clutching onto Tony like a drowning man goes after a life preserver.

JMO