Casey Anthony's 'failure to protect' caused Caylee's death, DCF said

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If you remember JB put forth a theory, not fact, that Caylee drowned in the pool . . ..If you watched the end of the opening statement, he entered a caveat; "However this may never be proved in this case.". ..which left him a legal out. Naturally he didn't have to prove anything.

Page 26. . . ..Cindy identifies Zanny's apartment in the Sawgrass complex.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20224558/detail.html

Sorta odd that the apartment belonged to Ricardo Morales and his roommate Amy Huizenga. . .who had babyset Caylee in the past. . ...connect the dots.
Back on topic...Casey failed (according to the report)...period. No one else is responsible for her lies.
 
I agree. I get tired of the "legally, she wasn't their kid" flag being waved. I don't know about anyone else, but if I know bad situation is going on, I don't look the other way and not do a darn thing because I have no legal rights. It's called morals and ethics, and the A's don't have any, period. Cindy knew full well she had an irresponsible, thieving and partying daughter living in her household and chose to ignore it for her fantasy of what she wanted Casey to be.

I'm honestly curious - what would you have done if you were in Cindy's shoes before they knew for certain the baby was missing.

How would you have handled Casey in the months before Casey went missin?
 
Grandparents are no different than any other person who is aware there is abuse, they need to report it and hope for the best. It is all a person can do. But you are right about taking charge and tell the son/daughter either straighten yourself out or the child stays with us. jmo

1. What abuse would they have reported
2. CA probably did tell Casey exactly that, "Caylee stays with us - see how that worked out for them?
 
I'm honestly curious - what would you have done if you were in Cindy's shoes before they knew for certain the baby was missing.

How would you have handled Casey in the months before Casey went missin?

That's a tough question with an obvious answer.

I am a newish grandparent of a beautiful 2 year old boy. My daughter is responsible and mature, and I have not had the experience of wondering if Orion was safe with his mama. She is single, Orion is the "product" of a baby-daddy and some bad choices on his mama's part.

Knowing what I've reflected upon since Caylee's tragic death, I believe if my daughter were anything like Casey, I would have sat and waited for a while, probably too long, until it was too late. My tendency toward denial might have had a part in the loss of this beautiful boy.

This isn't easy to admit. Which is why I sympathize with the Anthony parents, without in any way sanctifying what they did.

I'd like to think that I would have intervened a long time before, but would I have? Knowing me, maybe not :( . I have a string of head in the sand choices in my life :( . I like to think I've learned from them. I know for a fact I would definitely intervene NOW. But back when I was in denial about a lot of other stuff (a long story, I married your basic abusive "con man" and allowed him to destroy my life temporarily), I can't say I'd have risen to the occaision :(

I know I am not alone, all you have to do is open your ears to the stories in the news or from your own circle of friends. We humans fail a LOT of the time, and our regrets can be overwhelming. Fear of the truth is a disease, but a common one :( .

That said, in spite of all the human factors, George and Cindy FAILED UTTERLY, and they know it and will live with this knowledge for the rest of their lives. I don't believe for a second they don't know this. They may not admit it to the media (so we are made aware). They may not admit it to each other. But they know they failed dear Caylee. I have faith in that.

Whether they admit it even in the secret depths of their hearts or publicly, I have a hard time condemning them, or scathing them for taking a vacay or setting up a foundation. What the heck else are they going to do to absolve themselves?

Not that absolving is even possible, but the human urge is to do SOMETHING to partially right a wrong is understandable and necessary.

No amount of money or face time on TV or media or whatever is going to come close to absolving them of failing their granddaughter.

But, does that mean they should just shut themselves up in their dark house and pour ashes over their heads forever? I don't think so.

George and Cindy can't absolve themselves to US. But they will feel very compelled to absolve themselves to themselves, whom they must live with and cannot escape from. So, in my understanding, it is a "good" thing, a necessary thing, for them to try and do. Beyond that, it is none of my business.
 
CA found out much earlier before 6/15 that Casey stole from her parents. CA's mother says she confronted Casey in the spring about it.

Seeing her parents could have rekindled CA's anger about it though. A fight can begin by any comment, as we all must know.

It was the same argument that continued on 6/15/2008 (see below)

From: http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_timeline2008June.htm

2008-06-15
Rick (Reported brother of Cindy Anthony) tells about the fight his sister, Cindy had with Casey day before Casey,Caylee left.
(Rick posting on Topix thread, "Oh Well" thread III" page 730): (RICK: Aug 19, 2008 #14696) "Cindy and Casey were fighting the day before Casey left with Caylee. They had visited my mom and dad on father's day at the nursing home. My mom was angry that Cindy didn't do anything about Casey stealing money from their checking accounts. Thank God that the account for my father was hooked to the nursing home and wasn't allowed to be cashed by no one other than the nursing home. My mom got that money reimbursed from the bank. She asked that the bank press charges but somehow Cindy and George got Casey out of it. That is what we think the fighting was about after they got home that evening that the neighbors overheard."
 
1. What abuse would they have reported
2. CA probably did tell Casey exactly that, "Caylee stays with us - see how that worked out for them?

Only the A's know exactly how KC was treating Caylee and we may never know for sure. If CA did, in fact, confront KC and KC took off with Caylee there was nothing CA could do legally. Caylee was still KC's child and KC's responsibility. We can't blame the A's for what happened to Caylee....that, by-the-way appears to be KC's new job. There is no way CA could have stopped KC from walking out that door and dragging Caylee with her. KC made her choices. The problem is they allowed KC to be irresponsible and not accountable for her crimes against the family. Lying is such a big part of this family's dynamics that it's a wonder they ever functioned as a group. How did they trust one another?

If CA did what is reported she did to KC on the night of the 15th, which is choke her daughter, there was probably only one single outcome that would have ever come from this action and that is what happened to Caylee. If this incident did actually happen it must be a terrible cross to bear for CA and she blames herself. What the State tried to prove to CA was that it was going to happened anyway because it was already in KC's mind to get rid of Caylee. jmo
 
ID Channel on ... showing "Casey Anthony: Judgement Day" ...


ID needs to add three things to this show:

1. CFCA is the Most "Hated" Woman in America ...

2. The DCF's report that CFCA "failed to protect Caylee" which resulted in Caylee's death ...

3. CFCA to serve One Year Probation in Orange County for Check Fraud Charges ...


MOO ...
 
...markL on "dr.drew".

Anthony failed to protect Caylee [CNN 8-12-2011]
Report - Anthony failed to protect Caylee [CNN 8-12-2011] - YouTube

..lippman says that his clients haven't seen the DCF report yet ( just heard about it through the media like we all did)-----so his same old same old----can't comment. ( however, cindy and george's relationship is 'stronger than ever'..)

..markEiglarsh-----

"why now??? why now???? release this DCF report?????
DCF does NOT protect the children that they should protect!"

This just amazes me. He hasn't gotten a copy of the report but yet we have seen it and had a copy as soon as it was released. He has time to go onto the Dr. Drew's show but no time to read a report that any number of his staff could have gotten for him. "I haven't seen a copy of it yet" is equal to "I don't want to comment so let's just say I didn't get a copy." Word games. jmo
 
I've never been fully clear on whether or not CA or GA thought Caylee was "missing" or simply being kept away from them by a spiteful daughter. CA may have been saying in her Myspace post - My Caylee is missing (from my life)....I'm talking about the first 31 days of course.

I don't think CA/GA ever fathomed what KC was capable of. I believe they thought the spiteful daughter was just keeping Caylee away from them. I mean, what parent in their wildest dreams would think this sort of horror could happen... by their own flesh and blood. Not me. I wouldn't have had any of those thoughts either.
 
I don't think CA/GA ever fathomed what KC was capable of. I believe they thought the spiteful daughter was just keeping Caylee away from them. I mean, what parent in their wildest dreams would think this sort of horror could happen... by their own flesh and blood. Not me. I wouldn't have had any of those thoughts either.

At the time, no, I'm sure CA never put 2 + 2 together. There was a lot of detachment within the household. LA not permitted to know some of the family's business. GA excluded from what KC was doing, if she had a job, etc. KC just kept feeding CA information CA wanted to hear. CA was the center of the household and whatever she said was what was done. The only one who appeared to have challenged CA was KC.

I'm assuming CA was trying to get KC to be a responsible adult when KC became pregnant. Is it possible KC did not tell her mother she was pregnant because she knew once she was past a certain stage nothing could be done about getting an abortion. Once Caylee arrived she became a tool for KC to get exactly what she wanted, when she wanted it and how she wanted it.

Caylee approaching 3 years of age was now old enough to speak up and CA threatening to take Caylee away became a reality that Caylee was no longer useful to KC. You have to wonder if there was an argument on the 15th if CA threatened to take over parenting Caylee and KC would have to go out and get a job and pay child support. To me the T-shirt was a message to her mother, "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages" and the duct tape across the mouth which to me means, Caylee will never tell stories on me again. KC has shown she is really into subliminal messages. jmo
 
It was the same argument that continued on 6/15/2008 (see below)

From: http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_timeline2008June.htm

2008-06-15
Rick (Reported brother of Cindy Anthony) tells about the fight his sister, Cindy had with Casey day before Casey,Caylee left.
(Rick posting on Topix thread, "Oh Well" thread III" page 730): (RICK: Aug 19, 2008 #14696) "Cindy and Casey were fighting the day before Casey left with Caylee. They had visited my mom and dad on father's day at the nursing home. My mom was angry that Cindy didn't do anything about Casey stealing money from their checking accounts. Thank God that the account for my father was hooked to the nursing home and wasn't allowed to be cashed by no one other than the nursing home. My mom got that money reimbursed from the bank. She asked that the bank press charges but somehow Cindy and George got Casey out of it. That is what we think the fighting was about after they got home that evening that the neighbors overheard."

Having read all of Rick's emails at the time, and while I support his interest in his mother and father, this is third party chit chat and I've always thought Rick was at least half full of chit.....and enjoying HIS 15 seconds of fame...
 
At the time, no, I'm sure CA never put 2 + 2 together. There was a lot of detachment within the household. LA not permitted to know some of the family's business. GA excluded from what KC was doing, if she had a job, etc. KC just kept feeding CA information CA wanted to hear. CA was the center of the household and whatever she said was what was done. The only one who appeared to have challenged CA was KC.

I'm assuming CA was trying to get KC to be a responsible adult when KC became pregnant. Is it possible KC did not tell her mother she was pregnant because she knew once she was past a certain stage nothing could be done about getting an abortion. Once Caylee arrived she became a tool for KC to get exactly what she wanted, when she wanted it and how she wanted it.

Caylee approaching 3 years of age was now old enough to speak up and CA threatening to take Caylee away became a reality that Caylee was no longer useful to KC. You have to wonder if there was an argument on the 15th if CA threatened to take over parenting Caylee and KC would have to go out and get a job and pay child support. To me the T-shirt was a message to her mother, "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages" and the duct tape across the mouth which to me means, Caylee will never tell stories on me again. KC has shown she is really into subliminal messages. jmo

All that and folks seem to leave out that CA worked full time - left for work before eight in the morning and returned home after six most nights. Plus she appeared to need to believe whatever bs FKC chose to feed her. I think it took her months to empty out her head of all the lies FKC fed her during the first 31 days. Listening to her back in the early days, she really believed there was a Jeffrey, that the people FKC talked about were real, and that FKC job was a real job.

FKC was right - she is a very good liar.

There is no doubt in my mind that both GA and CA knew FKC was not the reliable young woman they hoped she would be, but I remain convinced they had no comprehension that FKC could/would kill Caylee. And dispose of her body in such an ugly brutal manner. Who immediately suspects their own child of this?
 
All that and folks seem to leave out that CA worked full time - left for work before eight in the morning and returned home after six most nights. Plus she appeared to need to believe whatever bs FKC chose to feed her. I think it took her months to empty out her head of all the lies FKC fed her during the first 31 days. Listening to her back in the early days, she really believed there was a Jeffrey, that the people FKC talked about were real, and that FKC job was a real job.

FKC was right - she is a very good liar.

There is no doubt in my mind that both GA and CA knew FKC was not the reliable young woman they hoped she would be, but I remain convinced they had no comprehension that FKC could/would kill Caylee. And dispose of her body in such an ugly brutal manner. Who immediately suspects their own child of this?

I don't think they ever had a clue she would do this. GA and CA loved Caylee as much if not more than they loved KC. Obviously KC is still alive so we know the A's would have never done anything to hurt her. I think their goal as a family was to try and appear like the perfect family, appearances are everything and KC just was not willing to fit into that mold. She was rebellious. But many children are and never end up doing unspeakable things. This was totally off the A's radar and I believe they never saw it coming. jmo
 
Up until a few years ago, grandparents had very limited rights in Florida but with so many grandchildren now being raised by grandparents even without the courts, seems things are better but still not yet ideal. If this is what the A's are trying to change, I support it.
What rights would they be trying to change, I wonder? I do agree that if the parent is unfit then the grandparents should be considered for custody if they would be fit to take on the child. But if the parent has legal custody, as Casey did, the grandparents can't just waltz in and take the child, even if it would be better for the child. If the A's are thinking they should just have been able to take Caylee away from Casey with no involvement from the courts, well, there's never gonna be a law that allows that.

I've never been fully clear on whether or not CA or GA thought Caylee was "missing" or simply being kept away from them by a spiteful daughter. CA may have been saying in her Myspace post - My Caylee is missing (from my life)....I'm talking about the first 31 days of course.
IMO Cindy seemed pretty worried in that Myspace post. The gist was basically, "Who is taking care of Caylee since I've always been the one to do it and now she's just out there alone with her irresponsible mother?" I do think they probably didn't realize just how bad it could be, but OTOH they had to be pretty suspicious once a couple of weeks had passed and Casey was still giving them excuses not to see Caylee, excuses they had to know were lies. They had to know there was no nanny, no car accident, etc. They probably never imagined that Casey would hurt her, but they had to be worried about what was really going on and if Caylee was being tended to, fed, clothed, protected.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that both GA and CA knew FKC was not the reliable young woman they hoped she would be, but I remain convinced they had no comprehension that FKC could/would kill Caylee. And dispose of her body in such an ugly brutal manner. Who immediately suspects their own child of this?

NOBODY!

But the issues with Cindy start right after after Caylee was slaughtered. Cindy knew as soon as Caylee and Casey were gone for a day that something was very wrong! Casey had no money to survive. Or place to go. But must damming is that Casey left Caylee's clothes and all Caylee's worldly goods at Cindy's place. As Cindy would say - THAT WAS A RED FLAG. But Cindy did nothing to find out what was going on. Any normal grand mother in that situation would.IMO
 
I'm honestly curious - what would you have done if you were in Cindy's shoes before they knew for certain the baby was missing.

How would you have handled Casey in the months before Casey went missin?

I would turn my child in for stealing. Casey was stealing long before anything happened to Caylee. But Cindy couldn't have a child that had a criminal record. Casey should have been in jail for theft, and that would have given Cindy the right to legally take Caylee away from her. And I'm not saying just report her once, but everytime she stole from anyone in the family. But no, Cindy kept pushing that under the rug, and the thefts were just misunderstandings. I mean seriously, Cindy? Not mention how much Casey stole from Cindy on a regular basis. My God. Casey got away with so much.

She wasn't even working! If my child had a baby and was living with me, a requirement would be getting a job. And if that child was like Casey, I would also require seeing check stubs, and even have a hand in how their money was spent. Heck, my child would even have to pay some sort of rent. That's how my parents were with me when I had to move back home. I didn't have a child, but a dog at the time. They expected me to be responsible and weren't going to let me sit around and do nothing. I just don't understand Cindy at all.

I know she didn't expect Casey to kill Caylee. I have never said that George or Cindy ever expected that. But they knew what kind of irresponsible person she was at the very least, but still allowed Casey to be completely irresponsible and then just shrugged, well, there's nothing we can do because she's Caylee's mom. Yes, dammit, there was a LOT they could have done legally about her thefts, and then used that to get Caylee. It wouldn't have been hard to get proof of it either. I mean seriously, these people had a lot of avenues they could have pursued legally. Hell, throw her sorry butt out on the street! Cut her off financially! What is Casey going to do? She wouldn't be able to afford an attorney. And she wouldn't dare call CPS on her mother. That would sever ties forever. Heck, even take the car away from her too. Casey would have been screwed. She would have been totally up a creek without a paddle. And Caylee would be safe.

In any of these cases, had the A's tried anything, ANYTHING to protect Caylee, yes, it might have taken awhile and a lot legal struggles to actually get Caylee, but at least they could have said they tried, and held Casey legally to task for being a an irresponsible thief, and who knows, Caylee might still be alive right now. Instead, they didn't try ANYTHING, NOT ONE DAMN THING to stop Casey from being irresponsible, NOTHING AT ALL. How is that right? How is that ethical or moral? Poor Caylee paid for it with her life. Casey felt entitled to take her away because the A's let her think that Caylee was hers to do whatever she wanted with.

Yes, Casey would have had a criminal record, but if it saved Caylee's life, it would have been worth it. Or throwing her out on the street and cutting her off might have been a struggle too. Nothing was going to be easy in protecting Caylee at all. But no, Cindy has to have perfect children who can do no wrong despite all warning signs. That trumped Caylee's welfare, sad but true. Threatening Casey, by the way, is NOT trying. Threats meant absolutely NOTHING to Casey. All threats did was make her want revenge on her parents because HOW DARE THEY think they can MAKE HER be responsible! Cindy had to follow through on those threats, and she was probably never going to do that.

IMO, there's always SOMETHING that CAN BE DONE. Children should not be in jeopardy because oh well, we can't do anything. That's how children get abused. That's how children die, when we all just sit back and watch it happen, shrug our shoulders and say oh well. That's not protecting our children with every fiber of our being. We have to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING. We have to TRY dammit. And the Anthony's refused to even TRY.
 
All that and folks seem to leave out that CA worked full time - left for work before eight in the morning and returned home after six most nights. Plus she appeared to need to believe whatever bs FKC chose to feed her. I think it took her months to empty out her head of all the lies FKC fed her during the first 31 days. Listening to her back in the early days, she really believed there was a Jeffrey, that the people FKC talked about were real, and that FKC job was a real job.

FKC was right - she is a very good liar.

There is no doubt in my mind that both GA and CA knew FKC was not the reliable young woman they hoped she would be, but I remain convinced they had no comprehension that FKC could/would kill Caylee. And dispose of her body in such an ugly brutal manner. Who immediately suspects their own child of this?

When presented with the truth she chose not to listen to it though.
GA told her there was no job at Sports Authority - he didn't believe she had ANy job- but when he proved it to CA she told him to butt out and stop spying on FCA. There were many opportunities she had to confront her about her lies, one by one, but she chose not to and everything escalated without any control.

GA should have persisted at that point- and demanded that CA listen- I do not understand why they all pussyfooted around this nasty spoiled brat.
 
I would turn my child in for stealing. Casey was stealing long before anything happened to Caylee. But Cindy couldn't have a child that had a criminal record. Casey should have been in jail for theft, and that would have given Cindy the right to legally take Caylee away from her. And I'm not saying just report her once, but everytime she stole from anyone in the family. But no, Cindy kept pushing that under the rug, and the thefts were just misunderstandings. I mean seriously, Cindy? Not mention how much Casey stole from Cindy on a regular basis. My God. Casey got away with so much.

She wasn't even working! If my child had a baby and was living with me, a requirement would be getting a job. And if that child was like Casey, I would also require seeing check stubs, and even have a hand in how their money was spent. Heck, my child would even have to pay some sort of rent. That's how my parents were with me when I had to move back home. I didn't have a child, but a dog at the time. They expected me to be responsible and weren't going to let me sit around and do nothing. I just don't understand Cindy at all.

I know she didn't expect Casey to kill Caylee. I have never said that George or Cindy ever expected that. But they knew what kind of irresponsible person she was at the very least, but still allowed Casey to be completely irresponsible and then just shrugged, well, there's nothing we can do because she's Caylee's mom. Yes, dammit, there was a LOT they could have done legally about her thefts, and then used that to get Caylee. It wouldn't have been hard to get proof of it either. I mean seriously, these people had a lot of avenues they could have pursued legally. Hell, throw her sorry butt out on the street! Cut her off financially! What is Casey going to do? She wouldn't be able to afford an attorney. And she wouldn't dare call CPS on her mother. That would sever ties forever. Heck, even take the car away from her too. Casey would have been screwed. She would have been totally up a creek without a paddle. And Caylee would be safe.

In any of these cases, had the A's tried anything, ANYTHING to protect Caylee, yes, it might have taken awhile and a lot legal struggles to actually get Caylee, but at least they could have said they tried, and held Casey legally to task for being a an irresponsible thief, and who knows, Caylee might still be alive right now. Instead, they didn't try ANYTHING, NOT ONE DAMN THING to stop Casey from being irresponsible, NOTHING AT ALL. How is that right? How is that ethical or moral? Poor Caylee paid for it with her life. Casey felt entitled to take her away because the A's let her think that Caylee was hers to do whatever she wanted with.

Yes, Casey would have had a criminal record, but if it saved Caylee's life, it would have been worth it. Or throwing her out on the street and cutting her off might have been a struggle too. Nothing was going to be easy in protecting Caylee at all. But no, Cindy has to have perfect children who can do no wrong despite all warning signs. That trumped Caylee's welfare, sad but true. Threatening Casey, by the way, is NOT trying. Threats meant absolutely NOTHING to Casey. All threats did was make her want revenge on her parents because HOW DARE THEY think they can MAKE HER be responsible! Cindy had to follow through on those threats, and she was probably never going to do that.

IMO, there's always SOMETHING that CAN BE DONE. Children should not be in jeopardy because oh well, we can't do anything. That's how children get abuesd. That's how children die, when we all just sit back and watch it happen, shrug our shoulders and say oh well. That's not protecting our children with every fiber of our being. We have to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING. We have to TRY dammit. And the Anthony's refused to even TRY.

Absolutely. If my child had stolen from my mother and then my father's Nursing Home account I would have personally driven them to the Police station. Instead she thinks of ways to cover it up!
CA sold all her family, Caylee,LA, GA, her parents, her brother, all of them so that FCA would not be upset with her and remain her BFF!
 
What rights would they be trying to change, I wonder? I do agree that if the parent is unfit then the grandparents should be considered for custody if they would be fit to take on the child. But if the parent has legal custody, as Casey did, the grandparents can't just waltz in and take the child, even if it would be better for the child. If the A's are thinking they should just have been able to take Caylee away from Casey with no involvement from the courts, well, there's never gonna be a law that allows that.


IMO Cindy seemed pretty worried in that Myspace post. The gist was basically, "Who is taking care of Caylee since I've always been the one to do it and now she's just out there alone with her irresponsible mother?" I do think they probably didn't realize just how bad it could be, but OTOH they had to be pretty suspicious once a couple of weeks had passed and Casey was still giving them excuses not to see Caylee, excuses they had to know were [/B]lies. They had to know there was no nanny, no car accident, etc. They probably never imagined that Casey would hurt her, but they had to be worried about what was really going on and if Caylee was being tended to, fed, clothed, protected.


I think CA was genuinely worried about Caylee being dragged here and there by FKC because she was so young, and I think this was the first time FKC had actually kept Caylee away from them so long. And yes, I think CA did believe the Jeffrey rich guy new love story because that's exactly what CA wanted for FKC - to be married and have someone look after her.

As far as putting forward the perfect family "look" - maybe it was more of what many many people do - which is put on their "best face" and what happens within the family circle in no one's "bidness" as HHJP calls it.

Yes, I know in this way secrets thrive and abuse happens blah blah, but there is also the issue of personal boundaries. We are such a let it all hang out a la Jerry Springer. Aside from superficial details, I don't want to know personal stuff about my neighbours and I can't see any reason why they should know mine.

I don't know how we can teach our kids about their personal privacy and what self dignity is and let it all hang out at the same time. I have one of those faces (whatever that means) that I can sit next to someone on a train, a complete stranger on the way to work, and within ten minutes they are telling me all about stuff that is very personal and no way do I want to know! I'm told it's because I have a sympathetic personality and I'm beginning to think I wear a sign that says dump your trashy life here- unload - you'll feel so much better.

I don't defend anything the Anthony's did post charges, but don't think we can lay into them for boundaries and wanting to believe in their kid and refusing to believe Caylee was dead.
 
When presented with the truth she chose not to listen to it though.
GA told her there was no job at Sports Authority - he didn't believe she had ANy job- but when he proved it to CA she told him to butt out and stop spying on FCA. There were many opportunities she had to confront her about her lies, one by one, but she chose not to and everything escalated without any control.

GA should have persisted at that point- and demanded that CA listen- I do not understand why they all pussyfooted around this nasty spoiled brat.

Here's my point - we don't know if CA did confront FKC about her lies, do we? And yes, they did pussyfoot around FKC - and I think if you read any histories of living with a sociopath, you'll understand why.
 

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