Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[LiveLaughLuv]

What info do we have about her life before she had Caylee that she was heading in a bad direction? And if so what could anyone have done.

One has to first admit there is a problem in order to do something about it, IMO..

I had a daughter who wanted to do what she wanted to do. From the age of12, I was beside myself, going to therapy trying to find out what was wrong. She thought she was grown and wanted to do what she wanted to do. She wouldn't go to school so I marched myself down to family court and initiated a PINS (Persons in need of supervision) warrant, which worked great for ME until she reached 16...anyway I did try my best, I have no guilt feelings I let my daughter down. She's now 33, married and living in Virginia..I did my best..at least I admited that there was a problem and tried to get a handle on it..

CA could have done the same. Problem is, in her perfect family, there are NO problems...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

JMHO

 

[Aedrys]

Lee left the roost a few years prior to Caylee's death. I'm not sure he was that involved in KC's day-to-day life since she became a mom. I love my brother but a lot goes on in each of our daily lives that the other is not aware of - in my case, nothing too interesting. Bro flies here and flies there due to his work, goes to various places with various people all the time. We are grown. God forbid, if something bad happened to either one of us, we would not have first hand knowledge or anything to do with it. I've never quite understood why Lee has been considered to be integral to what happened to Caylee. :waitasec: Anyway,

GA and CA, neither of them are beyond speculation imo. George is a separate entity from CA. If he doesn't know that, shame on him. I don't give him any passes because of who CA is, what CA does or says. He has free will and is as full of it as she is. I guess they complete each other. :sick:

About Lee, he may not be directly involved, but he KNOWS what was going on. I talk to my mom and I hear about my brother and sister from her - they live in two different states and are busy with their jobs, so I don't get to talk to them often. But my mom updates me on things going on in their lives, good or bad. I know that's why I hold it against him. He knew how bad things were and didn't try to get Caylee out of that toxic environment or do anything about his sister. If I heard that my brother or sister was endangering the life of their child, you better believe I'd be trying my damndest to get involved and get that child to safety. I may not be in their lives everyday, but I still have a good idea of what is going on with them. Lee knew too, and he chose to ignore all of it and just let his mom handle it. He didn't care enough about Caylee to do anything for her, or maybe report his sister to the police or get her some help. He did NOTHING, and he's still doing NOTHING. He's just as much a coward as George is.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

About Lee, he may not be directly involved, but he KNOWS what was going on. I talk to my mom and I hear about my brother and sister from her - they live in two different states and are busy with their jobs, so I don't get to talk to them often. But my mom updates me on things going on in their lives, good or bad. I know that's why I hold it against him. He knew how bad things were and didn't try to get Caylee out of that toxic environment or do anything about his sister. If I heard that my brother or sister was endangering the life of their child, you better believe I'd be trying my damndest to get involved and get that child to safety. I may not be in their lives everyday, but I still have a good idea of what is going on with them. Lee knew too, and he chose to ignore all of it and just let his mom handle it. He didn't care enough about Caylee to do anything for her, or maybe report his sister to the police or get her some help. He did NOTHING, and he's still doing NOTHING. He's just as much a coward as George is.

ITA. It doesn't take a genius to know that stealing and pathological lying is a BIG RED FLAG that something horrible is going on behind the scenes. Casey didn't even try too hard to hide it. Casey's still laughing at her mother even now. And I'm sure that in Casey's mind at least the game goes on.

 

[hannahsnana]

If I'm not mistaken, GA was not present during yesterday's DP hearing.
Neither GA nor CA were present at the hearing that dealt with financial concerns. BC, their Lawyer, stated it hadn't been necessary for them to be there and that there was no specific reason.

I'm curious why GA didn't attend the DP hearing. :waitasec:
Also I'm curious about why he pretended he was suicidal when his innocent until proven guilty daughter needed him most.

One trait of a Narcissist is to create crisis in order to turn attention back toward theirself. GA doesn't seem trustworthy imo.

I have actually been wondering for a while now if George is still living with Cindy. I noticed a definite drop in temperature between them about the time it was alleged he had had an affair. Or maybe they're living together as 'roommates'. I think even the last time they were both at a hearing, they arrived and left separately. Not trying to start a rumor, just wondering.......

 

[ynotdivein]

Bumping because some posts on other threads have me responding dangerously close to the OT line.

Also because... well, because we might not "solve" anything here. But I know I'm not the only WSer who thinks/wishes/wonders: "What was the psychological key that turned on this whole engine? And what keeps it churning? And what, if anything, could have stopped it?"

Need to read back in this thread still, but I am wondering how Lee fits into this of late. And wondering what you all think of things psychologically Anthony of late?

 

[countzero]

I have written this time and again.

If you have never been exposed to people or relatives the likes of the A clan, you cannot comprehend the damage they inflict upon ones mental and physical life.

So for me, it isn't difficult to understand them. I see and recognize their behaviors. The lies, the drama all of it.

They will never publicly acknowledge their faults, for in their lives they have none. They have no moral compass to guide them in societies acceptable behaviors. They are all narcisstic and are passive/aggressive within their unit.

They all know what they have done and their only concern is self preservation and be danged with everyone else. They adapt with their surroundings and current situations. They are always thinking they are smarter than the people they deal with and are always looking for a point where they can manipulate to their advantage. They will use any and all underhanded tactics to deflect their responsibility and wear down their opponents until their goals are met.

They trust no one, and I mean no one but themselves. They have little if any friends but can have many acquaintances until those see them for who they truly are. They skirt the laws of the land; for them these laws do not apply.

For those who come into contact with these personalities, it can either drain the will from you, or make you stronger.

From personal experiences I draw these conclusions. And I chose to cut the blood line from my life if I was to go on living a normal and productive life.

 

[wenwe4]

Found a great online documentary on psychopathy which I believe explains Casey's psychology.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/psychopath/

And am starting to think as I look into the subject that there must have been signs from Casey's early childhood that she had 'issues'. So could the people around her - her parents, the school, really have been so blind, so fearful, that they did nothing?

What info do we have about her life before she had Caylee that she was heading in a bad direction? And if so what could anyone have done.

TY Mrs. GN - what an informative and interesting video. I did some more sleuthing on Dr. Hare's psychopathy checklist. Of course this is to be used in conjuction with a semi-structured interview done with a qualified clinician. I have found a link with the checklist and scoring references. By no means do I wish to devalue this tool's worth in the clinical setting. I think this tool helps explain to us what we actually have been witnessing as we follow this case.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

snipped for space by me


"The Hare PCL-R contains two parts, a semi-structured interview and a review of the subject's file records and history. During the evaluation, the clinician scores 20 items that measure central elements of the psychopathic character. The items cover the nature of the subject's interpersonal relationships; his or her affective or emotional involvement; responses to other people and to situations; evidence of social deviance; and lifestyle. The material thus covers two key aspects that help define the psychopath: selfish and unfeeling victimization of other people, and an unstable and antisocial lifestyle.

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

•glib and superficial charm
•grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
•need for stimulation
•pathological lying
•cunning and manipulativeness
•lack of remorse or guilt
•shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
•callousness and lack of empathy
•parasitic lifestyle
•poor behavioral controls
•sexual promiscuity
•early behavior problems
•lack of realistic long-term goals
•impulsivity
•irresponsibility
•failure to accept responsibility for own actions
•many short-term marital relationships
•juvenile delinquency
•revocation of conditional release
•criminal versatility



When properly completed by a qualified professional, the PCL-R provides a total score that indicates how closely the test subject matches the "perfect" score that a classic or prototypical psychopath would rate. Each of the twenty items is given a score of 0, 1, or 2 based on how well it applies to the subject being tested. A prototypical psychopath would receive a maximum score of 40, while someone with absolutely no psychopathic traits or tendencies would receive a score of zero. A score of 30 or above qualifies a person for a diagnosis of psychopathy. People with no criminal backgrounds normally score around 5. Many non-psychopathic criminal offenders score around 22. "

 

[Knot4u2no]

TY Mrs. GN - what an informative and interesting video. I did some more sleuthing on Dr. Hare's psychopathy checklist. Of course this is to be used in conjuction with a semi-structured interview done with a qualified clinician. I have found a link with the checklist and scoring references. By no means do I wish to devalue this tool's worth in the clinical setting. I think this tool helps explain to us what we actually have been witnessing as we follow this case.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

snipped for space by me


"The Hare PCL-R contains two parts, a semi-structured interview and a review of the subject's file records and history. During the evaluation, the clinician scores 20 items that measure central elements of the psychopathic character. The items cover the nature of the subject's interpersonal relationships; his or her affective or emotional involvement; responses to other people and to situations; evidence of social deviance; and lifestyle. The material thus covers two key aspects that help define the psychopath: selfish and unfeeling victimization of other people, and an unstable and antisocial lifestyle.

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

•glib and superficial charm
•grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
•need for stimulation
•pathological lying
•cunning and manipulativeness
•lack of remorse or guilt
•shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
•callousness and lack of empathy
•parasitic lifestyle
•poor behavioral controls
•sexual promiscuity
•early behavior problems
•lack of realistic long-term goals
•impulsivity
•irresponsibility
•failure to accept responsibility for own actions
•many short-term marital relationships
•juvenile delinquency
•revocation of conditional release
•criminal versatility



When properly completed by a qualified professional, the PCL-R provides a total score that indicates how closely the test subject matches the "perfect" score that a classic or prototypical psychopath would rate. Each of the twenty items is given a score of 0, 1, or 2 based on how well it applies to the subject being tested. A prototypical psychopath would receive a maximum score of 40, while someone with absolutely no psychopathic traits or tendencies would receive a score of zero. A score of 30 or above qualifies a person for a diagnosis of psychopathy. People with no criminal backgrounds normally score around 5. Many non-psychopathic criminal offenders score around 22. "

For a BRACE Character Profile analysis and related discussion of a prototypical 40-point Hare PCL-R psychopath, see the following:

http://www.braceanalysis.com/downloads/BRACE_of_40_pt_Hare_PCL R.pdf


Russell

 

[faefrost]

TY Mrs. GN - what an informative and interesting video. I did some more sleuthing on Dr. Hare's psychopathy checklist. Of course this is to be used in conjuction with a semi-structured interview done with a qualified clinician. I have found a link with the checklist and scoring references. By no means do I wish to devalue this tool's worth in the clinical setting. I think this tool helps explain to us what we actually have been witnessing as we follow this case.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

snipped for space by me


"The Hare PCL-R contains two parts, a semi-structured interview and a review of the subject's file records and history. During the evaluation, the clinician scores 20 items that measure central elements of the psychopathic character. The items cover the nature of the subject's interpersonal relationships; his or her affective or emotional involvement; responses to other people and to situations; evidence of social deviance; and lifestyle. The material thus covers two key aspects that help define the psychopath: selfish and unfeeling victimization of other people, and an unstable and antisocial lifestyle.

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

•glib and superficial charm
•grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
•need for stimulation
•pathological lying
•cunning and manipulativeness
•lack of remorse or guilt
•shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
•callousness and lack of empathy
•parasitic lifestyle
•poor behavioral controls
•sexual promiscuity
•early behavior problems
•lack of realistic long-term goals
•impulsivity
•irresponsibility
•failure to accept responsibility for own actions
•many short-term marital relationships
•juvenile delinquency
•revocation of conditional release
•criminal versatility



When properly completed by a qualified professional, the PCL-R provides a total score that indicates how closely the test subject matches the "perfect" score that a classic or prototypical psychopath would rate. Each of the twenty items is given a score of 0, 1, or 2 based on how well it applies to the subject being tested. A prototypical psychopath would receive a maximum score of 40, while someone with absolutely no psychopathic traits or tendencies would receive a score of zero. A score of 30 or above qualifies a person for a diagnosis of psychopathy. People with no criminal backgrounds normally score around 5. Many non-psychopathic criminal offenders score around 22. "

Great and informative post!

Somewhat OT, but interesting to note that this seems to perfectly match both KC and our other favorite in the news Joran Van Der Sloot.

 

[Leila]

I have a question to put to all here. What keeps this train from derailing?

After the events of July 15, 2008, the Anthony family was thrust into the national media spotlight. We all saw the family's behavior unfold in a very unflattering way. George and Cindy gave their first interview, with local media, on Friday, July 18th and in quick succession were interviewed by Geraldo, Greta Van Susteran, and Nancy Grace, thus gaining national exposure.

For many people, they were drawn to this story by the behavior of George and Cindy. Casey was in jail and not talking, so she was for the moment, not the focus of the media's attention. It was George and Cindy telling reporters to "get off their butts and find my granddaughter" and waving a hammer at the reporters in a threatening manner, insisting that the odor in Casey's car was rotten pizza, or confronting protesters in front of their house with a baseball bat that kept the media's focus.

We know that George and/or Cindy were reading here at Websleuths because printouts of WS posts were found in their trash. It's reasonable to assume they've read other forums, and the comment section of their own local newspaper's online edition.

The public opinion of the Anthony family, universally, is very very negative. I'm sure that George, Cindy, and Lee (Casey is out of the loop as she doesn't have computer or media access) are very much aware of their negative image in the public eye. Lee has dropped off the radar as he's no longer making public comment.

Not a great example, but each one of us here knows that if we're with a group of people and the discussion turns to politics, and we say something that's not well received because most of the group are politically firmly aligned with the opposite party, you don't keep expounding on the remark that wasn't well received......it's not going to convince anyone to change, and you might be making some enemies with your political point of view.

George and Cindy continue to forge ahead with media appearances despite the fact that in doing so, they're incurring public anger with their comments and behavior.

I'm aware that what we're seeing with the Anthony family members is consistent with classic behavior of narcissistic personality disorder, and very likely sociopathic personality disorder. But, even so, I would think that George and Cindy would be aware of the public's perception and change their tactics in an effort to gain sympathy and support.

So, I'm wondering why George and Cindy continue down this track and why the train hasn't derailed yet?

 

[Murdock]

I have a question to put to all here. What keeps this train from derailing?

After the events of July 15, 2008, the Anthony family was thrust into the national media spotlight. We all saw the family's behavior unfold in a very unflattering way. George and Cindy gave their first interview, with local media, on Friday, July 18th and in quick succession were interviewed by Geraldo, Greta Van Susteran, and Nancy Grace, thus gaining national exposure.

For many people, they were drawn to this story by the behavior of George and Cindy. Casey was in jail and not talking, so she was for the moment, not the focus of the media's attention. It was George and Cindy telling reporters to "get off their butts and find my granddaughter" and waving a hammer at the reporters in a threatening manner, insisting that the odor in Casey's car was rotten pizza, or confronting protesters in front of their house with a baseball bat that kept the media's focus.

We know that George and/or Cindy were reading here at Websleuths because printouts of WS posts were found in their trash. It's reasonable to assume they've read other forums, and the comment section of their own local newspaper's online edition.

The public opinion of the Anthony family, universally, is very very negative. I'm sure that George, Cindy, and Lee (Casey is out of the loop as she doesn't have computer or media access) are very much aware of their negative image in the public eye. Lee has dropped off the radar as he's no longer making public comment.

Not a great example, but each one of us here knows that if we're with a group of people and the discussion turns to politics, and we say something that's not well received because most of the group are politically firmly aligned with the opposite party, you don't keep expounding on the remark that wasn't well received......it's not going to convince anyone to change, and you might be making some enemies with your political point of view.

George and Cindy continue to forge ahead with media appearances despite the fact that in doing so, they're incurring public anger with their comments and behavior.

I'm aware that what we're seeing with the Anthony family members is consistent with classic behavior of narcissistic personality disorder, and very likely sociopathic personality disorder. But, even so, I would think that George and Cindy would be aware of the public's perception and change their tactics in an effort to gain sympathy and support.

So, I'm wondering why George and Cindy continue down this track and why the train hasn't derailed yet?

Is there anything they can do, at this point, to change public perception? The time to both support KC & endear themselves to the public was in 2008, IMO. Anything they would say now, (such as thanking TES, and Roy Kronk, for example), would be taken as insincere.

 

[Pink Panther]

The family appears to be quite messed up (according to mental health) at the very least. Sounds like "momma psychopath" married "poppa deadbeat submissive mildy ASPD" and they spawned KC. These people survived only because they lived in Florida. Any other civilization would have rejected them immediately!

MOO

 

[countzero]

Leila, a one sentence answer to your question why.

Because the A clan think they are right and the world is wrong in opinions.

My opinion ..... they will never change theirs and will continue to challenge anyone and everyone. Two years after Caylees murder only reinforces it.

 

[Aedrys]

Leila, I think they keep going in front of the media and saying the same things to convince themselves that they are still right. They were so strong about everything in the beginning, and now it seems like they can barely hold it together while saying the same things. It's like when a person is so traumatized, they say the same thing over and over to comfort themselves even if doesn't make a bit of sense.

I think all they have now is their pride and ego, and they have to keep stroking both to keep their support going for Casey. If they admit that they are wrong, then Casey really is the monster that took their granddaughter away and they really were bad parents. That's something I know Cindy can't live with. I bet she repeats, "I was a good mother, I am a good mother" in her sleep.

George, I can't fathom why he's still so in denial. He seems to know what is really going on but won't go against Cindy. I guess he's been trained too well by her and probably wouldn't know to live on his own without her. Plus, I'm sure she keeps her claws dug deep into him to keep him in line. You just don't cross Cindy Anthony. She's a mafia unto herself.

And in all of this self delusions of grandeur, the most precious thing of all is totally lost - Caylee. They're all so into making themselves feel better, even Casey, that Caylee is nonexistent. It's really sad that they have so much ego and pride that Caylee doesn't fit into their lives anymore.

 

[wenwe4]

Here is how I would rate KC on this scale: Using 0 for No, 1 for Maybe, and 2 for Yes

•glib and superficial charm = 2 (flirting w/DA's, etc)
•grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self = 2 (event planner @ Universal)
•need for stimulation = 2 (multiple fusion invites)
•pathological lying = 2 (Zanny, Universal, squirrel, etc)
•cunning and manipulativeness = 2 (Amy's/Grandma SP/CA stolen $)
•lack of remorse or guilt = 2 (ate Chili w/o me!!!)
•shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness) = 2 (no tears except for herself)
•callousness and lack of empathy = 2 (no tears; 31 days; duct tape)
•parasitic lifestyle = 2 (live off parents/Tony & Amy $)
•poor behavioral controls = 2 (party @ Fusion/La Bella Vita)
•sexual promiscuity = 2 (Ricardo, Tony, Jessie, etc)
•early behavior problems = 1 (early onset lying)
•lack of realistic long-term goals = 1 (move in w/Amy w/o job or $)
•impulsivity = 2 (BOA, Target, JCPenny)
•irresponsibility = 2 (blame Zanny/LE/Jessie)
•failure to accept responsibility for own actions = 2 ("not my fault")
•many short-term marital relationships = 0 (1 x engaged)
•juvenile delinquency = 0 (didn't finish highschool)
•revocation of conditional release = 0 (picked up on new charges)
•criminal versatility = 0 (not enuf info)

Total Score (IMO) = 30 points

I am curious where other people would score her on this scale. . . .

 

[Pattymarie]

Respectfully snipped.
I believe when she first smelled “death” in the car, she freaked. It was frightening to smell the sweet, sickening smell and I believe it is instinctual (just like it is in other animals) to know that it is the smell of death. She freaked again when she undoubtedly realized that it was the smell of her precious granddaughter’s rotting body. She dialed 911 without considering the implications to her “perfect” image. Cindy had to back peddle after her impulsive 911 call because she is a narcissist and image is everything.

I am not sure about this....prior to the murder...the A's were just a family living out their dysfunctional lives. There was no "image" to protect..image was nothing until they became notoriously famous...so was image and narcissism even a factor before the murder? Or has it only become apparent since their national exposure? And if this is so, are image and narcissism a factor in events leading up to the murder when no one knew who they were? Or are there other pathologies more prevalent?

 

[TorisMom003]

Pattymarie, I slightly disagree. Cindy did have issues with image before all of this happened. Think back to her brother Rick's wedding where Casey was at least 7 months pregnant. People in the neighborhood have also made comments about Cindy buying numerous things for Caylee and "flaunting" them while walking around the block with George and Caylee. I'm sure that her co-workers would say the same thing. Cindy likes to appear to be well off, great mother, perfect family. Casey definately learned well at her mother's knee.

 

[Leila]

Is there anything they can do, at this point, to change public perception? The time to both support KC & endear themselves to the public was in 2008, IMO. Anything they would say now, (such as thanking TES, and Roy Kronk, for example), would be taken as insincere.

I think public perception could have been swayed, at least in part, if they had called a press conference after Caylee's remains had been found and identified. If they had thanked OCSO, TES, and everyone who helped search for Caylee, and apologized for their behavior, it would have had an impact on public perception. Now, there wouldn't be much of an impact, as too much time has elapsed.

But by continuing to put themselves in the spotlight is only compounding the errors they've made.

 

[Leila]

Leila, a one sentence answer to your question why.

Because the A clan think they are right and the world is wrong in opinions.

My opinion ..... they will never change theirs and will continue to challenge anyone and everyone. Two years after Caylees murder only reinforces it.

Thanks Countzero. It's a shame the Anthonys can't accept reality. I wonder what Cindy would do if, at the conclusion of the trial and with a guilty verdict, Casey asked to address the court and confessed to murdering Caylee?

 

[countzero]

Problem with "normal" thinking, as most of us here have, is that for the A clan, their version of thinking is normal.

Don't be fooled by their methods of deceit and deflection. It's but only part of their manipulation. Don't be fooled by their lack of reality.

THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE AS A COHESIVE UNIT to Caylee.

And they are using everything they have to change historical events.

ICA will never confess. When ICA is found guilty, it will only fuel CA further to become a martyr and draw in more innocent people for her purposes.

Notice the lack of family support the A clan has; vs the negative support by SP and RP. Notice that Caylee didn't have any continual social contact with toddlers her age. The tv and dvds were all she had. She had little or no interactions with her peers in scheduled play groups, church activities or preschool. ICA didn't maintain any long term friends. She had many acquaintances, but no one has stood by her since her arrest.

As for CAs employment, many narcisstics function on different levels in a work setting because they know employment (money) is important. Why did CA leave her position as a hands on nurse and instead work behind a desk. Why does GA fail to maintain steady gainful employment. It's passive/aggressive behaviors that have allowed the As to survive as long as they have. GA won't leave CA nor will CA divorce GA. They each know the family secrets of the other. It's better to keep your enemies closer than friends, to watch over their moves is their motto. Affairs are ok as long as they are discrete and don't grow.

I could go on and on, but I think ya get the picture. And I see the A clan for who and what they are.