Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[OneLostGrl]

You can bet my last dollar that both CA and ICA know who the birth father is. CA DID NOT want him or anyone else to know. If that became known CA would lost control over ICA as well as Caylee. And CA wouldn't have had any of that, losing control.

What's your thinking on the allegation that she was seen mouthing "I love you" to her mom today? To me it seems George is for the first time ever not in court and all of a sudden Casey is acknowledging her mother with "I love you's".

 

[Aedrys]

Hello WS

I was thinking about DC and how Cindy sent him into the woods looking for Caylee. Cindy even told LE, "I had some people out there searching"(paraphrased).

I would love for DC to confirm(at trial)for us that Cindy did indeed send him out to the woods off of Suburban. I think that act is the strongest(but goodness not the only!) reason I see Cindy is as sly as a fox and not in any kind of denial.

Cindy told several of Casey's friends that Casey wasn't to be trusted, even going so far as to call Casey a "sociopath." Why would Cindy use that term(besides the fact that she is a cold and punishing mother)? Being a nurse she has extra education behind using a word like that...

I have stated that I thought George and Cindy knew Casey was weak, but I thought they could have never thought Casey would kill or hurt Caylee...

I think I am changing my mind. Cindy had to have seen Casey be a "bad" mother and not just the going out...that is why she asked Casey, "what have you done?"

When my sister's fiance's parents came to visit to meet my parents, my mother told them all kinds of bad things about my sister to their faces. She let them know all kinds of negative things about my sister...but she never called her a "sociopath."

As with AVS and Scott Peterson's parents...there seems to be a dynamic where the parents are/have to be aware of what their child is...yet they defend the child should anyone else also figure out what their child is...

Maybe something like that....

But, Cindy could not have been in denial...imo or she never could have sent DC into the woods to look for "Caylee", as in an "alive" Caylee...she had to have sent him there to see if that is where Casey had put her. Cindy either heard though a "daisy chain" or she just knew her "sociopathic" daughter well enough to listen to what even the neighbors were saying: if Casey killed Caylee she put her in the woods. (per the Bailey's, Kio Marie, and other neighbors and people that had known Casey when she was younger.)

None of these people really seemed surprised that Casey was accused of killing her daughter and went right away into where they thought she would put her daughter. Annie Dowling felt that ("if") Casey had killed Caylee she had to have had help, Cindy made the same statement at one time. Very telling, imo.

...js...

I totally agree with this. Cindy fully knew what Casey was capable of. She just hoped beyond hope Casey wouldn't go as far as she did. I mean, why say something like "We've lost her" to George right after she found out about Caylee being missing? That was such an odd thing for her to say if she really thought Casey was innocent and not capable of killing Caylee. Instead, it was like her worst fears about Casey had been confirmed, that she was capable of murder to exact revenge on Cindy.

I do think Cindy feels guilt, not over Caylee (because she's not the one who did the actual deed, nor could she have predicted the exact moment Casey would do something like this), but over the fact that she should have stopped Casey a long time ago. She feels guilt that she let the situation get out of control so much that Caylee lost her life. She feels guilt over the fact that she ignored her gut instincts about Casey for so long to keep up the image of perfection that it cost Caylee her life.

 

[kushka]

What's your thinking on the allegation that she was seen mouthing "I love you" to her mom today? To me it seems George is for the first time ever not in court and all of a sudden Casey is acknowledging her mother with "I love you's".

I was just reading the "2010.07.02 Actual Emergency Hearing Thread" and in post 422 CentralFLMama - who was at the hearing stated:

I assume Cindy mouthed "I love you" because Casey mouthed something back. I dont know what it was, but it wasnt I love you.

I wish I knew exactly what Casey really said -

 

[countzero]

What's your thinking on the allegation that she was seen mouthing "I love you" to her mom today? To me it seems George is for the first time ever not in court and all of a sudden Casey is acknowledging her mother with "I love you's".

Dang it, I had a reply typed out on my iPad and then lost it when I hit another button in error.

Anyhow, My beliefs about the alleged "love you"s are really "F" you's. By the A clan standards mind you. When you mouth the words "I love you" and "F you" they are similar, especially when one is not directly face to face with the other. Even if the are mouthing "love you", it isn't for what we would use it for. These people do not know nor understand the universal meanings of love that we communicate with. They manipulate what we take for granted for their own usage. Which is why most people cannot/will not comprehend their destructive behaviors.

CA must maintain her appearance to the media. It is survival for her to perform these motions, even though they are foreign to her to use. She adapts to the part she must play. Again keep in mind, there isn't anyone who is guiding her for she will have no part of being told what or how to do anything. When ICA is found quilty, CA will shift her appearance to becoming a martyr for Caylee. She has already told us this. And she is so ill equipped to play this part. But she will give it her all ..... doomed to fail before she even begins.

ICA, oh boy, she just doesn't give a dang. She is so into where she thinks she is at, a level where people are finally giving her the attention she so thrives on. Attention she never got from CA/GA/LA. She has people who dote on her day and night. She has people, her team, who she can sit and shoot the bull with for a few stolen minutes out of her environment of an enclosed yet in total view of her daily habits. I would put the size in of her cell, but ya'll get my drift. SMALL, REALLY-really-small.

GA, now I wish people would give up on GA owning up to his part in Caylee's murder. This will NOT happen. Neither will LA.

One can't complain that GA isn't in court and then blast GA for not working. Let the man work and earn some $$$. On another thread, I brought this up and the question was asked about CAs disability running out this year. I don't have the mental challenge today to look, so hopefully someone will remember the month we discovered this. Anyhow, I do believe it is in the fall when the two years are up.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'd bet Cindy knows who the father is and ADVISED Casey to keep him off the birth cert (but that's just me and my mindset about a "Cindy") They have to remain a clan

I've never believed for one minute that CA doesn't know who the father is - just hearing her musical stories tells me that she knows.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Texas has had this safe haven law for some years. Just FYI.

Texas needs to advertise! :crazy:
I'm not sure when the show* I watched was made - maybe it is already several years old. It came on at 2PM central yesterday - right after In Session. We had to put those new cable boxes on our T.V.s (it was a nightmare; we're stupid) and now my TIVO box isn't connected. Usually I just hit "guide" and can see show info, upcoming shows, shows from yesterday, etc. I'm so lost - ha!

*I found some info on the show: The Investigators, Abandoned at Birth. I think the show first aired in 2001. California's law went into effect in 2001.
Guess what else? A woman who abandoned three babies in eleven month intervals (the first two lived) last name is 'Ortiz'. Isn't that weird?

http://www.ehow.com/about_5427439_child-abandonment-laws.html
This article states that Nebraska was the last state to enact this law in 2008.

 

[ynotdivein]

This is random but one archetypal story that keeps popping up in my mind as we keep inching closer to justice for Caylee is that of Athena and Medusa, the two women in whose war Caylee was caught....

Athena was a daughter of Zeus and is sometimes seen as the warrior-woman; for Jungian psychologists she represents the rational, law-abiding, perfectionist and driven side of the feminine. Her mother is Metis (thought) and she herself represents wisdom... And yet....

Medusa was one of three beautiful virgin sisters (also the only mortal of the three) who tended Athena's temple. The sea god Poseidon seduced Medusa and they made love in Athena's temple, thereby arousing Athena's jealous rage. Athena, never one to let a slight pass without punishment, laid a curse on Medusa: she would forever have scaly skin, snakes for hair, and a gaze that would forevermore turn men to stone.

From here I will turn it over to a site that says it much better than me:

http://www.ejop.org/archives/2007/05/the_archetypal_1.html

"Not satisfied with turning beautiful Medusa into a feared and ugly monster, Athena then sends Perseus to behead this Gorgon and bring back her head. To avoid looking at Medusa, Perseus sights her in Athena’s polished bronze shield, using it as a mirror. He cuts off Medusa's head and takes it back to Athena, who puts the snaky head on her aegis (goatskin shield) in order to ward off enemies. Perseus, a heroic figure who slays the demon, can be interpreted also as Athena’s animus, in that he mediates between her conscious ego and the underworld of her unconscious.

Using Athena’s bronze shield as a mirror turns Medusa into a mirror image of Athena – the Looking Glass image, or the opposite. Athena is consciousness (the mind, thought); Medusa is the unconscious (instinct, feeling, body). Medusa's qualities are non-rational, not within the control of the conscious mind, and can threaten to destroy/disturb the integrity of or paralyse the conscious mind if not incorporated in the right way.

Looking straight into the face of the opposite is crippling, as Psyche finds out when she turns on the light and looks at Eros (Morford & Lenardon, 2003, p.195). Psyche and Eros get along well until she shines a light on the unconscious drive, and then it becomes crippled, or at least wounded, and the relationship founders. These myths imply that the non-rational has a life of its own and cannot be controlled by the conscious intellect without negative results, but should be left alone to complement the conscious attitude."

Much more at link above, psychonauts! Sleuth away!

 

[5stars]

After watching the hearing on 7-15-10 this family thinks they are a royal family. Nothing they say or do should be questioned by us common folks!I just don't get them.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I read something today on the difference between narcissists and psychopaths. The narcissist loves to see 'mirroring' or someone taking on their traits in order to flatter them, such as a fawning friend would do, this satisfies the narcissist, and they keep that fawning friend around as an ego boost, and to show others that they are worth idolatry. But a psychopath can't stand that, they find such mirroring antagonising, and lash out at people who fawn after them.

Now I'm wondering if Caylee's natural instinct as a child to 'mirror' her mother, to adore her, and take on her traits was just one more reason for Casey to become infuriated with her. And this is why Casey's psychopathy itself was enough to cause the death of Caylee.

 

[countzero]

After reading the thread about will Caylee's bio father be named at trial, I am now thinkin' about past cryptic comments made, not lies, but the comments the A clan said to ICA during their brief jail visits.

Lee asks ICA, "is this like before" .... GA and CA are discussing with ICA her meetings with "doctors" and ask if she disclosed her feelings, everything ??? and ICA replied, paraphrased here "no, I didn't say anything".

I think ICA may have had a prior pregnancy to Caylee. ICA could have had a miscarriage, got rid of it with help. Or she may have had a stillbirth or difficult birth and the infant passed and she got rid of it with help. Nothing beyond reality for this to have occurred in the A compound.

I don't believe any of the abuse allegations made by ICA, NONE. ICA only used it as a means of attracting attention to herself. The exact same way CA had her pity party sessions with her former co-workers. That is what I have seen in the sociopaths/narcissistic personalities in my extended family.

Always drama, drama and more drama. Self-created drama, which doesn't exist, to elicit a response to be the center of attention.

This A clan unit is so full of secrets, that I seriously doubt they all will be revealed and no one will know the extent of their history of secrecy.

 

[lala]

I totally agree with this. Cindy fully knew what Casey was capable of. She just hoped beyond hope Casey wouldn't go as far as she did. I mean, why say something like "We've lost her" to George right after she found out about Caylee being missing? That was such an odd thing for her to say if she really thought Casey was innocent and not capable of killing Caylee. Instead, it was like her worst fears about Casey had been confirmed, that she was capable of murder to exact revenge on Cindy.

I do think Cindy feels guilt, not over Caylee (because she's not the one who did the actual deed, nor could she have predicted the exact moment Casey would do something like this), but over the fact that she should have stopped Casey a long time ago. She feels guilt that she let the situation get out of control so much that Caylee lost her life. She feels guilt over the fact that she ignored her gut instincts about Casey for so long to keep up the image of perfection that it cost Caylee her life.

I agree with both of you except for one thing...I don't think Cindy feels guilt at all. I think she is humiliated that her family is being seen with all their dysfunctions...but guilt? No way. If she felt guilt she would have stopped this a long time ago...she would come clean about what she knows and ask ICA to do the same thing. True guilt would force her to rectify wrongs....neither are willing to do that.

 

[doogiesgirl]

"We are like the same little person"

-Casey

I found this comment by KC to her parents very strange. I just cannot imagine saying to my parents (about one of my children) "we are like the same little person". It was almost as if KC wanted to take Caylee's place in her parents eyes. Like she wanted to let them know...hey I can fill that void that Caylees left, just give me the chance to do it. We can just erase her from our memories if you guys will just get with my program! It really conveys just how deluded KC's thinking was/is. And really, how jealous KC was of the love/attention her parents gave to Caylee.

This behavior was first seen in CA in the LE/FBI interview tapes where she can't quite keep a clear separation between herself & KC(they keep asking questions about KC's mothering of Caylee and CA answers them with how she mothered KC). Then we see KC making this statement about herself & Caylee being "like the same little person". Neither of them quite "get" that Caylee wasn't a second KC, a second chance at a do-over at raising KC. Nor do they get that Caylee was unique, her own soul, her own individual. It was just a strange remark for KC to make IMO.

MOO

 

[OneLostGrl]

I found this comment by KC to her parents very strange. I just cannot imagine saying to my parents (about one of my children) "we are like the same little person". It was almost as if KC wanted to take Caylee's place in her parents eyes. Like she wanted to let them know...hey I can fill that void that Caylees left, just give me the chance to do it. We can just erase her from our memories if you guys will just get with my program! It really conveys just how deluded KC's thinking was/is. And really, how jealous KC was of the love/attention her parents gave to Caylee.

This behavior was first seen in CA in the LE/FBI interview tapes where she can't quite keep a clear separation between herself & KC(they keep asking questions about KC's mothering of Caylee and CA answers them with how she mothered KC). Then we see KC making this statement about herself & Caylee being "like the same little person". Neither of them quite "get" that Caylee wasn't a second KC, a second chance at a do-over at raising KC. Nor do they get that Caylee was unique, her own soul, her own individual. It was just a strange remark for KC to make IMO.

MOO

The lack of boundries in this kind of family is scary. They really have no sense of self- the people they "love" define them. They take you over- your life, your sense of self.. everything. You are, in their head, an extention of them. Cindy woulda done the same thing to Caylee. No doubt in my mind!

An example of the "you are just a little me"

When I was about 21ish my step father came and asked to kiss me.. a "real kiss" he said.. because he thought he may be in love with me and felt he needs to know for sure and a kiss could tell him. I freaked out- like big time. I went to my mom and told her- she said "Well, he's just confused because you are just a younger me.. let him do it and get it over with.. it means nothing. don't worrry about it, Laura..".

I mean who thinks like that?! The people we love do not belong to us, ya know?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The lack of boundries in this kind of family is scary. They really have no sense of self- the people they "love" define them. They take you over- your life, your sense of self.. everything. You are, in their head, an extention of them. Cindy woulda done the same thing to Caylee. No doubt in my mind!

An example of the "you are just a little me"

When I was about 21ish my step father came and asked to kiss me.. a "real kiss" he said.. because he thought he may be in love with me and felt he needs to know for sure and a kiss could tell him. I freaked out- like big time. I went to my mom and told her- she said "Well, he's just confused because you are just a younger me.. let him do it and get it over with.. it means nothing. don't worrry about it, Laura..".

I mean who thinks like that?! The people we love do not belong to us, ya know?

So did you kick him in the b*lls instead?

Strange reaction from mom there. I wonder what causes some people to not recognize that their children are their own persons? I know you and your mom have made progress so, I'm curious, if you discussed this with her now would she get that her reaction back then was inappropriate? What about how it made you feel?

I'm old enough to be your mom yet we have a same age child. I wish I could hug you now and protect you (even though I know you've got it covered).

 

[OneLostGrl]

So did you kick him in the b*lls instead?

Strange reaction from mom there. I wonder what causes some people to not recognize that their children are their own persons? I know you and your mom have made progress so, I'm curious, if you discussed this with her now would she get that her reaction back then was inappropriate? What about how it made you feel?

I'm old enough to be your mom yet we have a same age child. I wish I could hug you now and protect you (even though I know you've got it covered).

You are sweet :blowkiss:

We have discussed it and she still doesn't see it the way a normal person would.. though she does recognize that it's not normal. IMO the cause has a lot to do with the fact that they really do not have any sense of "self" and are so afraid of losing people they love that they take parts of them to "keep" with them just in case they are left.. but they eventually take too much of 'em to fill in the holes in themselves. So the lines get blurred and they just don't see themselves as seperate beings anymore. "I want this so you must too.. I like this so you must too.. why wouldn't you, we are the same."

 

[Chiquita71]

I agree with both of you except for one thing...I don't think Cindy feels guilt at all. I think she is humiliated that her family is being seen with all their dysfunctions...but guilt? No way. If she felt guilt she would have stopped this a long time ago...she would come clean about what she knows and ask ICA to do the same thing. True guilt would force her to rectify wrongs....neither are willing to do that.

Respectfully Quoted lala

And, I will agree right back at you. You are right, Cindy does not really feel any true guilt or she would act completely different. I know what you are saying, if she felt guilt like (if I may be so bold to speak for you) :blushing: you or I would feel she would want to come clean. If I felt guilt I couldn't stand to live with myself, and when you feel that way(meaning you are a person who takes responsibility for existing in the world) you usually do not find yourself in Cindy's position because you avoid doing things you would feel guilty about in the first place.

It is my own guilt at wondering if I am judging "these people" and I am being somehow a bad person and causing them more pain. You know, what separates me from Cindy and Casey? They sure think what they think is right, I don't want to be like that: blind. I give too much benefit of the doubt but my real feelings are: I feel they have no feelings for anyone but themselves. My true feelings are: Cindy has never felt guilty about anything in her life and is incapable. So, I do agree with ye.

Casey blames Cindy and Cindy blames Casey and neither one of them cares or cared about Caylee. The same dynamic we are seeing since it all went down is the same, imo that has always been going on. None of the Anthony's behavior is because of what happened, it is just the same behavior they have always had and it is what made it all happen. All of them. Together.

In my world view these are cosmic lessons we all are seeing unfold. Casey draws to herself the defense she has because she and her family have been on a path just like we are all on a path...I am happy I am on my path and some of my "gentleness" with them is partly out of just being so glad I am not them. :innocent:

Call it psychological or "spiritual/religious" based some people have a belief in a need to take care of their immortal soul. I am not trying to be religious, because really I call this just being a good person. From that perspective(anyone coming from that perspective)knows that Cindy does not really feel guilt. Psychologically, Cindy may feel guilt but have such a personality disorder that all she can do is push the responsibility off on others. I think psychologically, Casey never even comes close to even almost feeling that any thing is her fault or feeling anything remotely close to guilt.

I don't know which bothers me more? Cindy because she seems like she has some skills to "know better"(I suppose because she has not actually killed anyone)or Casey who is so cold she probably never had nor has any true loving emotions: which causes a lot of feelings of revulsion and (sorry) hate for her. Of course I feel the same about Cindy as soon as I hear her speak or read her words. :furious:

I hope in my rambling you can tell I understand what you are saying and I agree.

:twocents:

 

[Chiquita71]

The lack of boundries in this kind of family is scary. They really have no sense of self- the people they "love" define them. They take you over- your life, your sense of self.. everything. You are, in their head, an extention of them. Cindy woulda done the same thing to Caylee. No doubt in my mind!

An example of the "you are just a little me"

When I was about 21ish my step father came and asked to kiss me.. a "real kiss" he said.. because he thought he may be in love with me and felt he needs to know for sure and a kiss could tell him. I freaked out- like big time. I went to my mom and told her- she said "Well, he's just confused because you are just a younger me.. let him do it and get it over with.. it means nothing. don't worrry about it, Laura..".

I mean who thinks like that?! The people we love do not belong to us, ya know?

Respectfully Quoted OneLostGrl :blowkiss:

Whoa! I am sorry grl, that your mother could say that and think that way and act that way toward you! And, your step father, what an awful man! I wish I had something deep and profound to say, but I am going to have to process that happening to you. I can only imagine what you have had to do to be able to process that! :hug:

Simple "day to day" people are secretly nutso, and only the family members that are not nutso know about it. They are damaging on such a personal level. It's emotional molestation. I said it before in a post regarding something else, but I see it as the same here too. Molesters can't be seeing other people as others to be able to hurt them like that, same with anyone hurting anyone. The next awful level of abuse and hurt is murder, so if it is anything under that I put it on the same level as sexual abuse, i.e. molestation, incest, rape.

Thank you for sharing OneLostGrl. Your sharing helps me too and I am sure, others. The others you are very aware of...even when there are those that are not. :blowkiss:

:cow:

 

[logicalgirl]

What's your thinking on the allegation that she was seen mouthing "I love you" to her mom today? To me it seems George is for the first time ever not in court and all of a sudden Casey is acknowledging her mother with "I love you's".

Oh - hmm - let me see - say, wasn't that just the hearing before we all heard that Cindy was going to testify about the 911 calls?

Gosh, must just have been a co-in-hinky-dink! But I don't believe I saw ICA mouthing "I Love You" to mommy dearest just after she testified. :waitasec:

 

[joypath]

This is o/t but I have to express this. I had truTV on to watch the emergency hearing. Afterward a program came on about young women who abandon their newborn babies in garbage cans and along the roadside.

Texas alone had thirteen abandoned babies found dead (last year? - not sure the dates). A woman in California (Farris or Harris?) is so saddened by this common occurrence that she bought forty burial plots to give the abandoned babies a proper burial. She names the babies, puts them in a tiny white casket and buries them with crosses and names listing where they were found. She has purchased forty more plots but hopes they remain empty.

I never knew this was such a common occurrence. It's shocking. We discuss how KC went seven months with nobody commenting and ignoring that she was pregnant. Evidently this happens all the time because the girls who are abandoning their babies would have to offer an explanation to somebody one would think about where their baby is after it is born. :waitasec:
Many people are eager/desperate to adopt and this is still happening.

The woman in California is working on a safe haven law (which I think exists in some places) so that a birth mother cannot be prosecuted for dropping the baby at a safe place according to baby abandonment laws.

Apparently there are hundreds of people out there that are capable of tossing their offspring into the garbage so they will not be bothered. Unbelievable. :furious:

Just ventured into this thread, thought about "snipping" your post W.B.G for brevity & yelled out loud in an empty office: :furious:HECK NO!:furious: THIS IS ON THE MONEY FACTUAL! Welcome to my little secret corner of the world, the corner where almost everybody plays "sweep it under the carpet", don't upset the nice taxpayers, the only time these atrocities really make the news is when it's a S L O W news day or a PC victim, extra special heinous case, leaked to the press,caught by a rookie LE/DA/Public defender. There is almost nothing worse than performing an autopsy on a body that doesn't even take up 1/10 of the morgue table, except maybe realizing that the perp was the victim's FAMILY member! UGH! And then the system rolls in and figures out how to devalue the victim again by bargaining with the perp because the courts are so overloaded/houses of incarceration overcrowded/psych. facilities overwhelmed....C'est la vie!:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Patriciao]

The lack of boundries in this kind of family is scary. They really have no sense of self- the people they "love" define them. They take you over- your life, your sense of self.. everything. You are, in their head, an extention of them. Cindy woulda done the same thing to Caylee. No doubt in my mind!

An example of the "you are just a little me"

When I was about 21ish my step father came and asked to kiss me.. a "real kiss" he said.. because he thought he may be in love with me and felt he needs to know for sure and a kiss could tell him. I freaked out- like big time. I went to my mom and told her- she said "Well, he's just confused because you are just a younger me.. let him do it and get it over with.. it means nothing. don't worrry about it, Laura..".

I mean who thinks like that?! The people we love do not belong to us, ya know?

Gosh girl, my sympathy to you on having such a wacky mother and stepfather!!!! It's not your fault and I sincerely hope that you are ok and live your life without their involvement. I do not think I could have ever forgiven them for this unless they both sought therapy and realized what they had done and apologized from the depths of their despair at their wrongdoing.