Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

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Having been a victim of a manipulator, I can tell you, it's the hardest thing in the world to accept that you've been manipulated, or accept that the person, the friend you thought you had, was never your friend and is a bad person. I remember trying to find something good about the person that manipulated me, that I couldn't have been so very wrong, and it's just extremely hard to accept that I was manipulated and this person was never ever my friend, not even for a second. I'm betting these friends tried to believe in her and didn't want to believe that she had done something so horrible. I mean, who wants to admit to themselves much less anyone else that they were intimate with a monster or were close friends with a monster? I think this best describes poor JG, and Kio to a certain extent.

I also think Annie was more worried about Casey flipping on her or getting her into trouble too. I think her motivations were selfish mostly. I mean, saying the things she did was to make sure Casey wouldn't throw her under the bus. Annie was terrified of being connected to this case because she knew she had given Casey drugs before.

I do think, too, that once some of these people realized what a liar and bad person Casey was, they went overboard with it. I think with Kio, she wanted to make sure to make Casey look as bad as possible, and I don't blame her. I think her silence now means that she knows she went too far with things she couldn't substantiate in order to make this former friend of hers pay the price for betraying her.

Particularly agree about Kio, I think she pushed it a little and had to back off-She told the Dickens' about everytime KC ever farted, it was weird that she was canvasing the neighborhood telling KC stories....
However, I guess my point was less about what these individuals have done (we have all done things we are not proud of) and more to the point of KC being twisted and many people pointing out that it freaked them out...Forget Kio, JG and Annie...
How about Michelle, Melina, Ryan, Shirley Plesea? They have all stated that KC had a side that stood in specific contrast to her otherwise nice, loving behavior. I believe it was Sean Daly that said that if Caylee fell, KC would always be there to kiss her and make it better, portraying a loving mother.
He could not believe that, even though he knew she could be a "normal" bad girl (partying, tats, vulgar language and late, loose nights), she would go this far.
However, I think the A's know darn well she can go this far and further, to the ultimate. And she has. I just wanna hear the A's tell me more about it, but really....lemme know when the thermometer reaches 32F in hell, that'll be about the time they will fess.
 
You make a good point. Maybe they're waiting to drop the bomb at the trial and that's why the Defense seems so lame regarding collecting the evidence.

No one can tell me that one or the other of the A's didn't know about Caylee prior to the 31 days. I cannot forget CA's text that read something like 'we have a big problem, call me.' And 'why didn't she pick up the car?' CA sent that when she found out the Pontiac had been towed. People gloss over these 'minor' (NOT!) things. How can you explain those comments? How can we explain CA letting Caylee be out of HER sight for 31 days - it just doesn't match up with her personality or their family history. To me that's as weird as the idea that KC would be pretending to take the fall for her dad. :waitasec: How can the A's remain silent and not tell the truth for all this time? They've demonstrated they're lying so many times; to me, they are guilty.

ITA. Definitely hinky. It is precisely those oddities (apart from desiring justice for that dear baby) that keep me intrigued by this on-going train wreck. I only hope that after all the time and energy so many of us have invested in studying this case, we will someday get closure in the form of some solid answers.
 
Wow - watch the Zenaida civil testimony tapes again featuring CA. That is CLASSIC manic behavior.

How so? I don't see any. She was animated and angry but there were no racing thoughts and she was lucid, though she was very mad. She appeared as someone who FINALLY had a chance to strike back and she was firing with both barrels, imo.
 
Particularly agree about Kio, I think she pushed it a little and had to back off-She told the Dickens' about everytime KC ever farted, it was weird that she was canvasing the neighborhood telling KC stories....
However, I guess my point was less about what these individuals have done (we have all done things we are not proud of) and more to the point of KC being twisted and many people pointing out that it freaked them out...Forget Kio, JG and Annie...
How about Michelle, Melina, Ryan, Shirley Plesea? They have all stated that KC had a side that stood in specific contrast to her otherwise nice, loving behavior. I believe it was Sean Daly that said that if Caylee fell, KC would always be there to kiss her and make it better, portraying a loving mother.
He could not believe that, even though he knew she could be a "normal" bad girl (partying, tats, vulgar language and late, loose nights), she would go this far.
However, I think the A's know darn well she can go this far and further, to the ultimate. And she has. I just wanna hear the A's tell me more about it, but really....lemme know when the thermometer reaches 32F in hell, that'll be about the time they will fess.

rbbm:

That is typical narcissism at work. ICA, with a known audience around her, would appear to be the doting person. But in private settings, even with people like the A's, ICA's anger would be more than apparent. Poor Caylee was sent mixed signals on a minute by minute basis while she was awake. If not from ICA then from CA or GA.
 
Truly this is my last word because we can go back and forth and don't need to agree. If an individual is in a manic phase, extreme bad behavior results if they are forced into a situation they don't want to be in. Rage, violent behavior, expressed often in a completely shameless way - I have personally experienced it over and over again including increased physical strength. I can appreciate it may not be classic manic behavior for you in a manic phase, although these are not often remembered clearly because in some stages of manic behavior - the individual has lost their "filters" - but in my family members they can and do occur.

Those are not symptoms of bipolar disorder. They simply aren't. Cindy was not "manic" that day. Not normal, but certainly not manic.
 
Those are not symptoms of bipolar disorder. They simply aren't. Cindy was not "manic" that day. Not normal, but certainly not manic.

CA was angry that she had to sit there and account for her own actions. You don't ask CA anything that shows her in a bad light. She came prepared and let that attorney have it with both barrels. She didn't see she did anything wrong (still doesnt')...Since she echoed what ICA claimed, she truly didn't think she can be held accountable...has nothing to do with manic states, IMO...this is the true CA we saw during those horrible depos. Anyone can sugar coat things when they are not on point. When a person is ousted they become defensive. This is exactly how CA acted, defensive...so absurd and immature for her to behave in that manner, knowing it's being taped and will be shown to the Judge who presides on that civil case...

She just showed her true self..arrogant, biligerent, obstinate just like her felonious daughter...JMHO

Justice for Caylee
 
CA was angry that she had to sit there and account for her own actions. You don't ask CA anything that shows her in a bad light. She came prepared and let that attorney have it with both barrels. She didn't see she did anything wrong (still doesnt')...Since she echoed what ICA claimed, she truly didn't think she can be held accountable...has nothing to do with manic states, IMO...this is the true CA we saw during those horrible depos. Anyone can sugar coat things when they are not on point. When a person is ousted they become defensive. This is exactly how CA acted, defensive...so absurd and immature for her to behave in that manner, knowing it's being taped and will be shown to the Judge who presides on that civil case...

She just showed her true self..arrogant, biligerent, obstinate just like her felonious daughter...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

BBM-CA's brother Rick pointed this out in his LE phoner-He said that you would never hear when something negative occurred with them, but when something good happened, all the world had to know about it.
LE asked him if, once it was confirmed that KC was pregnant, CA called him to tell him he was right about his suspicions at his wedding...he said no way, it would not be like her to ever confirm he was right about a situation such as having a single, 19 y.o. pregnant daughter.
 
CA was angry that she had to sit there and account for her own actions. You don't ask CA anything that shows her in a bad light. She came prepared and let that attorney have it with both barrels. She didn't see she did anything wrong (still doesnt')...Since she echoed what ICA claimed, she truly didn't think she can be held accountable...has nothing to do with manic states, IMO...this is the true CA we saw during those horrible depos. Anyone can sugar coat things when they are not on point. When a person is ousted they become defensive. This is exactly how CA acted, defensive...so absurd and immature for her to behave in that manner, knowing it's being taped and will be shown to the Judge who presides on that civil case...

She just showed her true self..arrogant, biligerent, obstinate just like her felonious daughter...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

I agree. Cindy acted as if she had taken her smart pill that day.
Watching both CA and GA during these depositions, I get the feeling they were working under the assumptions that:
1. Morgan was not in their league.
2. This deposition was to harass, embarrass, and hurt them, according to BC.
3. All they had to do was go in and say "Nope! That ain't her." (Though we have never seen ZFG, we know this ain't her.)
4. Since this would be released to the media, they decided to use it to their benefit. (Show their arses)

Neither one of these unusual people took this deposition seriously. As soon as CA began setting up her own camera to record, I knew we were in for a show. I had no idea the show would be as entertaining as it was.

They both seemed to follow a script.
I'm not answering that.
That isn't relevant.
Is your 15 minutes of fame so important to you?
I'm walking out.
I'm walking out.
I'm walking out.
Watching these videos, one can learn alot about how these people react when trumped. Like a couple of caged jackals.
 
Having been a victim of a manipulator, I can tell you, it's the hardest thing in the world to accept that you've been manipulated, or accept that the person, the friend you thought you had, was never your friend and is a bad person. I remember trying to find something good about the person that manipulated me, that I couldn't have been so very wrong, and it's just extremely hard to accept that I was manipulated and this person was never ever my friend, not even for a second. I'm betting these friends tried to believe in her and didn't want to believe that she had done something so horrible. I mean, who wants to admit to themselves much less anyone else that they were intimate with a monster or were close friends with a monster? I think this best describes poor JG, and Kio to a certain extent.

I also think Annie was more worried about Casey flipping on her or getting her into trouble too. I think her motivations were selfish mostly. I mean, saying the things she did was to make sure Casey wouldn't throw her under the bus. Annie was terrified of being connected to this case because she knew she had given Casey drugs before.

I do think, too, that once some of these people realized what a liar and bad person Casey was, they went overboard with it. I think with Kio, she wanted to make sure to make Casey look as bad as possible, and I don't blame her. I think her silence now means that she knows she went too far with things she couldn't substantiate in order to make this former friend of hers pay the price for betraying her.

Trust me I know what it feels like to suffer at the selfish hand of a manipulator, liar and thief. I can admit it because I didn't do anything wrong except believe a person at face value. When I realized the truth, I was able to cut all ties and move on as painful as it was at the time.

You haven't convinced me that Kio suffered any personal damage because of KC though. She was a kid when she hung out with KC. There is no proof that they had any meaningful contact for years. I don't understand why KIO INSERTED HERSELF into the case.

Annie claims she never gave KC drugs. She told LE that she gave a male friend (the Lake Vaj guy) a xanax once that was from her personal prescription long before the Summer of '08. If AD gave KC drugs, then she has not told the truth about it to LE. She did lawyer up and she still seemed connected to KC because she's the only friend that we know of who spent the night with KC when KC was out of jail. If she had been removed from KC since February '08 (or does she claim prior to that?), why would she fret whatsoever? I'm lost.

As far as JG goes, I'm not clear why he was still friends with KC on June 16, 2008, as per phone calls going back and forth between the two of them.
I'm not saying he knew anything about Caylee's demise, but he still seemed tied to KC. He may have hung in too long thus getting dragged personally into the situation. Wrong place, wrong time.

Amy is the one who really got duped imo. She was tricked and robbed. We have seen the evidence.
 
I think more then Amy were duped by Casey.

Her Grandmother, Tony ...to name a couple.
 
Oh believe me, I don't trust people easily anymore. I was paranoid for awhile. But I moved on from that, and have learned to spot manipulators a lot better now. I will not be taken advantage of again.

And I disagree about Casey. She was NEVER a victim. She just made people believe she was this good, nonviolent girl. Then Caylee came along and threatened to steal the life Casey loved from Casey. Caylee ended up bringing Casey's true identity out for everyone to see. She's nothing but a self centered sociopath. The way she was raised certainly didn't help either, but I've never thought there was a way for Casey to not come out the way she did. Even if she had good parents, she'd still be a lying sociopath.

What I don't understand then is why we don't just hate biology? If it's true that nurture has no value, then we are what we are regardless of our environment.

Maybe if someone had listened to Casey, encouraged her to find and be herself, encouraged her to let go of the idea that her mother was her keeper and that KC was an extention of her mother and her puppet, had felt the warmth of a parent who really cared about what was going on inside of her, on and on . . . oh, and made it painful for her when she did lie and steal, KC may have felt differently about herself by age eighteen. I'm still not clear about the graduation story, but if someone chooses not to earn their diploma due to being only one credit shy, they are working at becoming a looser - just imo.

But, again, we don't know what's true and what's not true.
 
I agree. Cindy acted as if she had taken her smart pill that day.
Watching both CA and GA during these depositions, I get the feeling they were working under the assumptions that:
1. Morgan was not in their league.
2. This deposition was to harass, embarrass, and hurt them, according to BC.
3. All they had to do was go in and say "Nope! That ain't her." (Though we have never seen ZFG, we know this ain't her.)
4. Since this would be released to the media, they decided to use it to their benefit. (Show their arses)

Neither one of these unusual people took this deposition seriously. As soon as CA began setting up her own camera to record, I knew we were in for a show. I had no idea the show would be as entertaining as it was.

They both seemed to follow a script.
I'm not answering that.
That isn't relevant.
Is your 15 minutes of fame so important to you?
I'm walking out.
I'm walking out.
I'm walking out.
Watching these videos, one can learn alot about how these people react when trumped. Like a couple of caged jackals.
Brilliant post!
 
I think more then Amy were duped by Casey.

Her Grandmother, Tony ...to name a couple.

Grandmother didn't get duped as she caught KC and called her on it but through Cindy which was a mistake. Was she taken advantage of? yes. She wasn't going take it though.

TL had a very brief encounter with KC and got caught up in something ugly. He loved the homecooked meals and the benefits. I'm not sure how I feel about saying he was 'duped'.
 
How so? I don't see any. She was animated and angry but there were no racing thoughts and she was lucid, though she was very mad. She appeared as someone who FINALLY had a chance to strike back and she was firing with both barrels, imo.

Cindy struck me as being incredulous at the Zenaita hearing. At the time, before knowing everything I know now, I was kind of feeling for her. Her life was in shambles and along comes this woman who is suing them. The reason is, is because the A's never said it was that Zenaita. Just as everyone says there are a million Zenaitas as there are Smiths, as far as CA was concerned, KC never said it was the one who visited Sawgrass. Even the date she visited was unclear at the time. A police report stated April versus June 17 as the date this ZG visisted Sawgrass. I've already made everyone mad (incredulous?), so I may as well say that I think the police did more to implicate ZG than the A's did. :waitasec:
 
BBM-CA's brother Rick pointed this out in his LE phoner-He said that you would never hear when something negative occurred with them, but when something good happened, all the world had to know about it.
LE asked him if, once it was confirmed that KC was pregnant, CA called him to tell him he was right about his suspicions at his wedding...he said no way, it would not be like her to ever confirm he was right about a situation such as having a single, 19 y.o. pregnant daughter.

It's seems as if the families were competitive instead of being open and honest with each other. Cindy didn't reach out for their comfort or help, she was defensive and probably ashamed (even though I don't think she held on to that feeling long thus her defensiveness). Then she went into cover up mode. I wonder whose standards CA was trying to live up to? She seemed to be honest with her mom about some things and I believe she stopped shy because she was guarding her mom's feelings and trying not to trouble her too much. But CA didn't hide everything from her mom as we know from SP's letters to her sister. Maybe CA was so downtrodden from feeling less than. Less than what she ever imagined her life would look like at age fifty. At fifty, you do tend to reflect on what has happened so far and may feel you don't have the time or energy to make up for what is lacking.

A lot of peeps don't blab their dirty laundry though. They figure it's nobody elses business. When it gets as serious as a small child who is missing, that's going too far regarding keeping things to yourself. I can't understand that at all.
 
What I don't understand then is why we don't just hate biology? If it's true that nurture has no value, then we are what we are regardless of our environment.

Maybe if someone had listened to Casey, encouraged her to find and be herself, encouraged her to let go of the idea that her mother was her keeper and that KC was an extention of her mother and her puppet, had felt the warmth of a parent who really cared about what was going on inside of her, on and on . . . oh, and made it painful for her when she did lie and steal, KC may have felt differently about herself by age eighteen. I'm still not clear about the graduation story, but if someone chooses not to earn their diploma due to being only one credit shy, they are working at becoming a looser - just imo.

But, again, we don't know what's true and what's not true.

I never said said nurture has no value. It does for people who are not sociopaths. I think Casey could have been and was encouraged to do better, but chose not to. It was far too easy to keep stealing from her mother, other family members, and friends than get a real job and have a real life. Yes, Cindy did enable Casey, and that did contribute. But I think even if she hadn't, Casey wouldn't be a different person. There are sociopaths that came from good families that commit crimes. Nurture is only helpful to a certain point. At some point, a person makes choices for themselves regardless of how they were raised. At some point, a person has to be responsible for themselves and not blame other people for their problems.

Casey has never admitted to or been responsible for anything in her life and never will be. All she knows how to do is blame other people and evade responsibility as much as possible. While nurture helps a lot of people, I do think that some people are just born bad and that's not a thing that can be done about it. In fact, if Cindy hadn't enabled her, all that would have happened is Casey would have skated by for a decade or two more before getting into trouble. A personality like hers, a sociopath, is a user and abuser of people for purely selfish reasons. There is no empathy for anyone but themselves, no love, no nothing except for their own selfish needs. She fooled people for a long time, but Caylee pushed her too far by being the sweet, beautiful, innocent child that was so opposite of Casey that Casey couldn't stand it. She couldn't stand Caylee being the center of attention, and all money going to Caylee. This was a disaster in the making. Cindy really should have let her give Caylee up for adoption. If so, Caylee would be alive today.

There's no hope for Casey, no chance for change, no hint ever of remorse or sorrow for the death of her child. While I do think her parents contributed to the way she is, and really don't like them, they didn't choose to kill a defenseless child and throw her away like garbage. Casey chose to do that. Casey continues to choose her own destiny by letting her defense rum amok and not making all of this end by admitting to what she did. She'll never do that, and this will continue to be a circus for the next six months, maybe even into the trial itself.

I learned the hard way about this, btw. I used to blame my mother and other people for my problems. My mom was a lot like Cindy when I was growing up. Fortunately, I matured and woke up to the fact that my problems were caused by me, and it's me that has to change and make my life better. I could have easily gone down Casey's path, but I'm not a sociopath, and I chose to make my life a good, law abiding one.

There's no solid answer for what could have prevented Casey from making this choice. She was on a path to destruction regardless of Caylee being there or not. Someone was bound to cross her path in a way she could not ignore and in a way that would make her so jealous and enraged that she would have to do something about it, and that includes murder as a choice for her. Poor Caylee just happened to the person that got in Casey's way and she chose that Caylee had to die. To her sociopathic mind, it was the only way to get all attention and money back onto Casey for good.
 
Cindy struck me as being incredulous at the Zenaita hearing. At the time, before knowing everything I know now, I was kind of feeling for her. Her life was in shambles and along comes this woman who is suing them. The reason is, is because the A's never said it was that Zenaita. Just as everyone says there are a million Zenaitas as there are Smiths, as far as CA was concerned, KC never said it was the one who visited Sawgrass. Even the date she visited was unclear at the time. A police report stated April versus June 17 as the date this ZG visisted Sawgrass. I've already made everyone mad (incredulous?), so I may as well say that I think the police did more to implicate ZG than the A's did. :waitasec:

Respectfully as far as I know the only one being sued is KC. The A's are not included in that lawsuit. But the A's never said is was not the ZG and CA was speaking for her daughter to the news media when she repeated what KC told her that KC had never been shown ZG's picture. And since ZG was the only ZG to be at the apartments at that time police were obligated to investigate her. Still not a problem until CA went before the media. The police were doing their job. KC and KC alone is responsible for what has happened with ZG because now we know there was no ZG. The A's have done more damage to their daughter by blaming everyone except the person who was responsible for the safety of their granddaughter.

Police had a big responsibility in that they had to try and look at the evidence they had which pointed more and more towards the mother than any other person. ZG had been cleared almost immediately. What happened afterwards was not the fault of police but that of a frantic grandmother with a way too overactive imagination. Easy to see the "apple/tree" thing here. jmo
 
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