Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[Aedrys]

Cindy struck me as being incredulous at the Zenaita hearing. At the time, before knowing everything I know now, I was kind of feeling for her. Her life was in shambles and along comes this woman who is suing them. The reason is, is because the A's never said it was that Zenaita. Just as everyone says there are a million Zenaitas as there are Smiths, as far as CA was concerned, KC never said it was the one who visited Sawgrass. Even the date she visited was unclear at the time. A police report stated April versus June 17 as the date this ZG visisted Sawgrass. I've already made everyone mad (incredulous?), so I may as well say that I think the police did more to implicate ZG than the A's did. :waitasec:

The police wouldn't have even looked at ZG if wasn't for Casey and then her family's fabrication. To say they implicated ZG more is a huge SLAP to the LE that has worked so hard on this case with a sociopathic defendant and her whacko, out of control family. The police certainly did NOT do more to implicate ZG than Casey and her family.

Cindy was only incredulous that someone dare sure her daughter for a misunderstanding. She knew full well that Casey's imaginanny was named Zenaida Gonzalez and didn't care who had to be thrown under the bus to be that nanny as long as it got Casey off of the hook. Of course, even implicating a real person didn't do anything but make Casey look worse. Cindy has been incredulous that the lies and grandstanding and everything else that she and George and the defense has perpertrated hasn't worked. How could her perfect, can do no wrong daughter, still be sitting in jail after all of this time? It's just inconceivable to her.

 

[Aedrys]

Trust me I know what it feels like to suffer at the selfish hand of a manipulator, liar and thief. I can admit it because I didn't do anything wrong except believe a person at face value. When I realized the truth, I was able to cut all ties and move on as painful as it was at the time.

You haven't convinced me that Kio suffered any personal damage because of KC though. She was a kid when she hung out with KC. There is no proof that they had any meaningful contact for years. I don't understand why KIO INSERTED HERSELF into the case.

Annie claims she never gave KC drugs. She told LE that she gave a male friend (the Lake Vaj guy) a xanax once that was from her personal prescription long before the Summer of '08. If AD gave KC drugs, then she has not told the truth about it to LE. She did lawyer up and she still seemed connected to KC because she's the only friend that we know of who spent the night with KC when KC was out of jail. If she had been removed from KC since February '08 (or does she claim prior to that?), why would she fret whatsoever? I'm lost.

As far as JG goes, I'm not clear why he was still friends with KC on June 16, 2008, as per phone calls going back and forth between the two of them.
I'm not saying he knew anything about Caylee's demise, but he still seemed tied to KC. He may have hung in too long thus getting dragged personally into the situation. Wrong place, wrong time.

Amy is the one who really got duped imo. She was tricked and robbed. We have seen the evidence.

It's not my job to convince you of anything, but I respect your opinion here even if I don't agree with it. Being manipulated and betrayed stays with a person for years. If the person who did this to me got into trouble and the police needed a character witness, hell yes I would come forward years later and tell them about what she did to me and what kind of person she is. It will never completely go away for me no matter what strides I make in my life.

I bet the friends Casey betrayed are still getting over what she did too. I don't blame Kio for getting involved if Casey severely betrayed her. They were friends as kids. How awful is it to find out your childhood friend is a child killer? That had to be devastating to Kio. I also don't blame JG who almost married Casey and loved Caylee for wanting to be friends with her. He still thought she was a good person and didn't want to believe she wasn't. No one wants to believe the person they sleep with and wanted to marry could kill a beloved child. And Annie is obviously CYAing for some reason we don't know. I don't trust a word that comes out of her mouth. I believe she was giving Casey drugs even after she said the last time was. Why else be so paranoid about Casey and want to speak with her? Annie wasn't being a friend, she was being paranoid that Casey was going to implicate her in Caylee's death somehow.

 

[OneLostGrl]

What I don't understand then is why we don't just hate biology? If it's true that nurture has no value, then we are what we are regardless of our environment.

Maybe if someone had listened to Casey, encouraged her to find and be herself, encouraged her to let go of the idea that her mother was her keeper and that KC was an extention of her mother and her puppet, had felt the warmth of a parent who really cared about what was going on inside of her, on and on . . . oh, and made it painful for her when she did lie and steal, KC may have felt differently about herself by age eighteen. I'm still not clear about the graduation story, but if someone chooses not to earn their diploma due to being only one credit shy, they are working at becoming a looser - just imo.

But, again, we don't know what's true and what's not true.

I'm with ya, Woe.

Bold is mine-

Nor do the "professionals"... nature/nurtue is debated even with them. I personally don't feel anyone is born bad or that there is anyone beyond hope. I feel some people's behavior has made it so they should not be in society mingling with innocent people but IMO nobody is all bad. How we are raised has a huge impact on who we become but we can become more if we choose to do something about it.. people can change. You (not you specifically) can say whatever you'd like but I know this as factual, I live it. We become what we choose to be no matter who our parents and no matter what our genetics. There is always hope for change, always!

 

[OneLostGrl]

I never said said nurture has no value. It does for people who are not sociopaths. I think Casey could have been and was encouraged to do better, but chose not to. It was far too easy to keep stealing from her mother, other family members, and friends than get a real job and have a real life. Yes, Cindy did enable Casey, and that did contribute. But I think even if she hadn't, Casey wouldn't be a different person. There are sociopaths that came from good families that commit crimes. Nurture is only helpful to a certain point. At some point, a person makes choices for themselves regardless of how they were raised. At some point, a person has to be responsible for themselves and not blame other people for their problems.

Casey has never admitted to or been responsible for anything in her life and never will be. All she knows how to do is blame other people and evade responsibility as much as possible. While nurture helps a lot of people, I do think that some people are just born bad and that's not a thing that can be done about it. In fact, if Cindy hadn't enabled her, all that would have happened is Casey would have skated by for a decade or two more before getting into trouble. A personality like hers, a sociopath, is a user and abuser of people for purely selfish reasons. There is no empathy for anyone but themselves, no love, no nothing except for their own selfish needs. She fooled people for a long time, but Caylee pushed her too far by being the sweet, beautiful, innocent child that was so opposite of Casey that Casey couldn't stand it. She couldn't stand Caylee being the center of attention, and all money going to Caylee. This was a disaster in the making. Cindy really should have let her give Caylee up for adoption. If so, Caylee would be alive today.

There's no hope for Casey, no chance for change, no hint ever of remorse or sorrow for the death of her child. While I do think her parents contributed to the way she is, and really don't like them, they didn't choose to kill a defenseless child and throw her away like garbage. Casey chose to do that. Casey continues to choose her own destiny by letting her defense rum amok and not making all of this end by admitting to what she did. She'll never do that, and this will continue to be a circus for the next six months, maybe even into the trial itself.

I learned the hard way about this, btw. I used to blame my mother and other people for my problems. My mom was a lot like Cindy when I was growing up. Fortunately, I matured and woke up to the fact that my problems were caused by me, and it's me that has to change and make my life better. I could have easily gone down Casey's path, but I'm not a sociopath, and I chose to make my life a good, law abiding one.

There's no solid answer for what could have prevented Casey from making this choice. She was on a path to destruction regardless of Caylee being there or not. Someone was bound to cross her path in a way she could not ignore and in a way that would make her so jealous and enraged that she would have to do something about it, and that includes murder as a choice for her. Poor Caylee just happened to the person that got in Casey's way and she chose that Caylee had to die. To her sociopathic mind, it was the only way to get all attention and money back onto Casey for good.

Bold is mine.

Where do you think she learned that behavior?! she wasn't born acting like that- she was taught to act like that! Look at her mother! Cindy should have "let" her? It was not Cindy decsion to make!

 

[LambChop]

What I don't understand then is why we don't just hate biology? If it's true that nurture has no value, then we are what we are regardless of our environment.

Maybe if someone had listened to Casey, encouraged her to find and be herself, encouraged her to let go of the idea that her mother was her keeper and that KC was an extention of her mother and her puppet, had felt the warmth of a parent who really cared about what was going on inside of her, on and on . . . oh, and made it painful for her when she did lie and steal, KC may have felt differently about herself by age eighteen. I'm still not clear about the graduation story, but if someone chooses not to earn their diploma due to being only one credit shy, they are working at becoming a looser - just imo.

But, again, we don't know what's true and what's not true.

But didn't Jesse do that? Wasn't he willing to accept her as she was, with all her hurts or perceived hurts? And what was the reason for the breakup. That in KC opinion he loved Caylee more than her. Who says that as a mother? Usually it's the other way around in that if you don't accept my child there is no relationship. This is normal. I do not believe a sociopath can be helped. They know right from wrong they just don't care. It's all about what is in it for me.

Tony was the next victum and may have already been. Didn't they report a breakin to the apartment while Tony was in NYC. I could be wrong but I think I remember a report saying someone had come through a window. Anyone else remember that? And if memory serves me did not Lee also mention something about getting access to a place by going through a window. Not breaking in but was locked out, can't remember the details.

Most people don't kill their young but some women do for reasons we may never know. I think KC already had the gene in her and CA just kept "watering" until it grew out of control. Like everything in life you can keep certain chemicals separate and nothing happens. You put them together and BAM. CA and KC's relationship was toxic. jmo

 

[Aedrys]

Bold is mine.

Where do you think she learned that behavior?! she wasn't born acting like that- she was taught to act like that! Look at her mother! Cindy should have "let" her? It was not Cindy decsion to make!

I'm confused, let her do what? The whole problem is Cindy never stopped Casey from doing anything. There were no consequences for Casey's actions. I agree, she learned that behavior from Cindy, but I've known people with horrible parents that turn out okay. In the end, it was Casey's choice to live the life she was living, not Cindy's. She could have been the better person in spite of her mother, but instead, she chose to be the opposite. As much as I can't stand Cindy, she wasn't standing over Casey, making her kill Caylee. Casey did that all on her own to spite her mother. Cindy shouldn't have enabled her so much, but that doesn't absolve Casey of the choices she made either. At some point, she's got to be an adult and take responsibility for herself, not just blame everyone else for the mess she's in and refuse to take any responsibility.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

^ Agree, and killing someone, a sweet child...can you imagine doing something like that? No, Casey was her own special being, her upbringing may explain to some degree how she ended up capable of such an act, but it certainly doesn't tell the whole story. Casey did what she did because of her own peculiar makeup, and for her own diabolical reasons.

 

[logicalgirl]

I'm confused, let her do what? The whole problem is Cindy never stopped Casey from doing anything. There were no consequences for Casey's actions. I agree, she learned that behavior from Cindy, but I've known people with horrible parents that turn out okay. In the end, it was Casey's choice to live the life she was living, not Cindy's. She could have been the better person in spite of her mother, but instead, she chose to be the opposite. As much as I can't stand Cindy, she wasn't standing over Casey, making her kill Caylee. Casey did that all on her own to spite her mother. Cindy shouldn't have enabled her so much, but that doesn't absolve Casey of the choices she made either. At some point, she's got to be an adult and take responsibility for herself, not just blame everyone else for the mess she's in and refuse to take any responsibility.

Well, I agree with you on most points. Here's what the experts who focus on psychopaths agree on:

(I clipped the end of the article which is quite long)

Some researchers think that psychopathy is the result of some attachment or bonding difficulty as an infant. Dr. Hare has turned the idea around, after all his years digging into the background of psychopaths. He says:
In some children the very failure to bond is a symptom of psychopathy. It is likely that these children lack the capacity to bond readily, and that their lack of attachment is largely the result, not the cause, of psychopathy. [Hare]

In other words: they are born that way and you can't fix them.

To many people, the idea of a child psychopath is almost unthinkable. But the fact is, true psychopaths are born, not made. Oh, indeed, there is the psychopath that is "made," but they are generally different from the born psychopath in a number of ways.

One mother said: "We were never able to get close to her even as an infant. She was always trying to have her own way, whether by being sweet, or by having a tantrum. She can put on a sweet and contrite act…"

The fact is: childhood psychopathy is a stark reality, and failing to recognize it can lead to years of vain attempts to discover what is wrong with a child, and the parent blaming themselves.

Hare writes:
As the signs of social breakdown grow more insistent, we no longer have the luxury of ignoring the presence of psychopathy in certain children. Half a century ago Hervey Cleckley and Robert Lindner warned us that our failure to acknowledge the psychopaths among us had already triggered a social crisis. Today our social institutions - our schools, courts, mental health clinics - confront the crisis every day in a thousand ways, and the blindfold against the reality of psychopathy is still in place.[…]

The fact is, clinical research clearly demonstrates that psychopathy does not spring unannounced into existence in adulthood. The symptoms reveal themselves in early life. It seems to be true that parents of psychopaths KNOW something is dreadfully wrong even before the child starts school. Such children are stubbornly immune to socializing pressures. They are "different" from other children in inexplicable ways. They are more "difficult," or "willful," or aggressive, or hard to "relate to." They are difficult to get close to, cold and distant and self-sufficient.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm confused, let her do what? The whole problem is Cindy never stopped Casey from doing anything. There were no consequences for Casey's actions. I agree, she learned that behavior from Cindy, but I've known people with horrible parents that turn out okay. In the end, it was Casey's choice to live the life she was living, not Cindy's. She could have been the better person in spite of her mother, but instead, she chose to be the opposite. As much as I can't stand Cindy, she wasn't standing over Casey, making her kill Caylee. Casey did that all on her own to spite her mother. Cindy shouldn't have enabled her so much, but that doesn't absolve Casey of the choices she made either. At some point, she's got to be an adult and take responsibility for herself, not just blame everyone else for the mess she's in and refuse to take any responsibility.

I was refering to where you said cindy should have let her give the baby up. As far as the rest of your post goes, ITA.

 

[Numbers]

They don't even make a meter for everything that's wrong with these people.

They'd bust it anyway.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Originally Posted by Aedrys
I'm confused, let her do what? The whole problem is Cindy never stopped Casey from doing anything. There were no consequences for Casey's actions. I agree, she learned that behavior from Cindy, but I've known people with horrible parents that turn out okay. In the end, it was Casey's choice to live the life she was living, not Cindy's. She could have been the better person in spite of her mother, but instead, she chose to be the opposite. As much as I can't stand Cindy, she wasn't standing over Casey, making her kill Caylee. Casey did that all on her own to spite her mother. Cindy shouldn't have enabled her so much, but that doesn't absolve Casey of the choices she made either. At some point, she's got to be an adult and take responsibility for herself, not just blame everyone else for the mess she's in and refuse to take any responsibility.

Responsibility? What's that to ICA?

I agree with all you stated above, Aedrys...

There comes a time in ones life that only you can be reponsible for your own actions/behaviors...and ICA doens't know or understand what it is to be on your own. Mamma Anthony was always there to get her out of situations, sweeten things over, never paid rent, utilities, was enabled to mooch and leech but not this time...This is out of CA's control and I bet that is what's making her loonier than ever...she cannot control this situation or it's outcome and whatever she does looks bad towards ICA...sabatoge unconsciously??? I think CA is glad that ICA is out of her home, too bad she didn't follow through with her threat of getting custody of Caylee, first...but fate and destiny brought her this heartache..if it wasn't then, it would be when???

I also believe CA is much like her child, only with her being a nurse, she has some compassion in her bones but can turn evil on a dime, those vicious words flow seemingly easy out of her mouth. We've seen her in action with those protesters, TM, with YM, that's probably mild compared to how she can truly be...CA will never admit to her daughters wrongdoing. She's still making excuses and forever will...It also seems she's forgotten about Caylee with trading once again, one child for the other...Money also rules CA's heart...she still adamantly denies the alleged physcial altercation on July 15. 2008...IMO...that's what put Caylee in danger...JMHO

Why was LA raised so differently? He seems to be responsible and his absence from court tells me he's not alright with his sister. I do hope his CMA fest was for Caylee and not his felonious sister...but who really knows what's in their mind...

I see CA with the keep up with the Joneses type, living way above her means...which is why she's so "greedy"! She's have much more respect if she insisted ICA tell the truth and not continue with the lies ICA created..I do believe in her heart she knows the truth but must keep up appearances so it doesn't seem like she is "betraying" ICA...which ICA letters contain that betrayal remark when they waived that conflict of interest with MN...and how she tried to "recant" (her words) that waiver, so ICA still rules the roost....JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[logicalgirl]

Let me first say there is nothing about Cindy and George that I respect, and their behavior in this case has been appalling IMO. Where is justice for Caylee?

But I also believe these are two emotionally unsophisticated and immature people who do not appear to trust the resources of the community, despite Cindy being educated and working as a nurse, and George who had a career in law enforcement.

But for me, what came first - the chicken or the egg.

My question for myself and for all of you posting is - how would you raise a child with these characteristics? If this child only "loved" you because you gave them what they wanted - would you recognize how deep these issues actually went? Or would you keep trying to keep some kind of balance in what must have been a constantly chaotic household. I honestly don't have an answer except I do know I would have gone for help very early on. Does it appear it would help? Not really as far as the child is concerned, but it may have helped the family as a whole.

I'm just inserting the description of a sociopath from the book "the mask of sanity" - and I was also fascinated by how the authors describe the sociopathic or "reptilian like stare" when the sociopath/psychopath is angry.
Sound familiar? (and I apologize for the length of this post!)

"Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.
Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.
You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.

In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.
You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.
How will you live your life?

What will you do with your huge and secret advantage, and with the corresponding handicap of other people (conscience)?
The answer will depend largely on just what your desires happen to be, because people are not all the same. Even the profoundly unscrupulous are not all the same. Some people - whether they have a conscience or not - favor the ease of inertia, while others are filled with dreams and wild ambitions. Some human beings are brilliant and talented, some are dull-witted, and most, conscience or not, are somewhere in between. There are violent people and nonviolent ones, individuals who are motivated by blood lust and those who have no such appetites. [...]

Provided you are not forcibly stopped, you can do anything at all."

 

[LambChop]

So summing that up KC would never appreciate the fact that the jurors would recommend LWOP instead of the DP. She would feel the jury did not find her guilty but in lieu of them actually finding the "bushy haired stranger" she, KC, will have to serve out ZFG's sentence for her.

 

[logicalgirl]

So summing that up KC would never appreciate the fact that the jurors would recommend LWOP instead of the DP. She would feel the jury did not find her guilty but in lieu of them actually finding the "bushy haired stranger" she, KC, will have to serve out ZFG's sentence for her.

Exactly - LOL!

 

[Jolynna]

I'm with ya, Woe.

Bold is mine-

Nor do the "professionals"... nature/nurtue is debated even with them. I personally don't feel anyone is born bad or that there is anyone beyond hope. I feel some people's behavior has made it so they should not be in society mingling with innocent people but IMO nobody is all bad. How we are raised has a huge impact on who we become but we can become more if we choose to do something about it.. people can change. You (not you specifically) can say whatever you'd like but I know this as factual, I live it. We become what we choose to be no matter who our parents and no matter what our genetics. There is always hope for change, always!

There is hope for change, IF there is an admission there IS a problem and MOTIVATION to change.

Barring those...nada...moo

 

[Jolynna]

Those that enable are just as disturbed as the sociopaths they enable. And even more frustrating to be around. At least sociopaths are charming when they want something. My experience with enablers is that they are strong willed go-getters that have the tact of bull-dozers.

I know an elderly couple that kept on lending their sociopath son money for grandiose schemes until they went bankrupt and the farm that had been in the family for generations ended up sold at a sheriff's auction. But, still the couple defended their thieving son and went to all of their friends to try to get money for their son's defense. The son shot himself on the day he was supposed to turn himself in. The elderly father died soon after that. The elderly mother lives with her DIL (my aunt) and is every bit as strong and untruthful in her defense of her son as Cindy Anthony.

The other enabler that I know in real life is my father-in-law. His son, my brother-in-law, has never, ever, suffered a single consequence for ANYTHING bad he has done because my father-in-law buys his way out. My brother-in-law is over 50 years old and last week my father-in-law gave $12K to my BIL's victim to keep the victim from going to authorities. My father-in-law pretends to be dumb and says he believes everything my brother-in-law says.

The enablers I know have things in common with Cindy:

They don't steal, nor would they.

They lie.

They are highly organized in their own lives. Cindy's house kept her house neat as a pin...something not easy to do when have the worries of a deathly ill father, marital woes, a thieving husband and daughter, a full-time job and a toddler with thousands of toys to strew.

They are goal oriented and high achievers. The enablers I know and Cindy Anthony all finished college. They did outstandingly well at work and had stable, even exemplary, work histories.

They are strong people (you might say dominating control-freaks).

They are perfectionists.

They go weak at the knees and cave at the thought of their spoiled child being upset. My 50+ aged brother-in-law still throws tantrums and I've never seen my father-in-law do anything back except cringe and wheedle.
​

I can look at the enablers and see how the spoiled-rotten sociopaths I know came about. But, I am having a huge problem seeing how the enablers that are so successful in so many other parts of their lives can be so obsessive about their little sociopaths?

I do disagree with all who say Cindy did not love Casey and Caylee. My father-in-law is a brave war hero who has and would again sacrifice his life for others. I've seen the tears and grief over what his son is. Cindy looks equally defeated. But, my father-in-law, despite swearing every time he is going to harden his heart, can't stop enabling. He is like a gerbil running uselessly on his wheel.

 

[Jolynna]

My brother-in-law never sought help and has not been diagnosed with any personality disorders. His son, my husband's nephew did live with us and we took him to professionals for help because although the son was a charmer to the max, he stole everything that wasn't nailed down. Therefore, one of my conditions before the nephew moved in was that he see somebody for his problems and also regular drug testing (no evidence of drugs ever though). Our nephew was officially diagnosed as a sociopath. For that the nephew started seeing a psychiatrist and a life modification counselor AND we joined a group for parents of difficult young adults. ALL recommended a VERY tough love approach. Which didn't work.

Anyway, the point of all of this is, Cindy Anthony acts more like my nephew's enabling but highly functioning grandfather than like my nephew's scattered and disorganized parents. My nephew grew up with no mother and a lax, charming con-man father. Kind of like George.

One of the things my nephew would do when cornered (after he'd lied and denied doing it a 100 times), was to cry and tell a school event his dysfunctional parents didn't attend. That would usually get everyone in tears and feeling bad for him. He'd promise to change. And we'd forgive him and have group hugs. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat. Until we said no more.

Yes, my nephew was not parented the way he should have been parented. His father most likely is a bad parent because his parent is a domineering enabler. But, while I can understand and feel bad because my brother-in-law and nephew were parented poorly, they had choices besides the choices they made. They are free adults. They and NOBODY else is responsible for the bad things they do.

 

[logicalgirl]

Those that enable are just as disturbed as the sociopaths they enable. And even more frustrating to be around. At least sociopaths are charming when they want something. My experience with enablers is that they are strong willed go-getters that have the tact of bull-dozers.

I know an elderly couple that kept on lending their sociopath son money for grandiose schemes until they went bankrupt and the farm that had been in the family for generations ended up sold at a sheriff's auction. But, still the couple defended their thieving son and went to all of their friends to try to get money for their son's defense. The son shot himself on the day he was supposed to turn himself in. The elderly father died soon after that. The elderly mother lives with her DIL (my aunt) and is every bit as strong and untruthful in her defense of her son as Cindy Anthony.

The other enabler that I know in real life is my father-in-law. His son, my brother-in-law, has never, ever, suffered a single consequence for ANYTHING bad he has done because my father-in-law buys his way out. My brother-in-law is over 50 years old and last week my father-in-law gave $12K to my BIL's victim to keep the victim from going to authorities. My father-in-law pretends to be dumb and says he believes everything my brother-in-law says.

The enablers I know have things in common with Cindy:

They don't steal, nor would they.

They lie.

They are highly organized in their own lives. Cindy's house kept her house neat as a pin...something not easy to do when have the worries of a deathly ill father, marital woes, a thieving husband and daughter, a full-time job and a toddler with thousands of toys to strew.

They are goal oriented and high achievers. The enablers I know and Cindy Anthony all finished college. They did outstandingly well at work and had stable, even exemplary, work histories.

They are strong people (you might say dominating control-freaks).

They are perfectionists.

They go weak at the knees and cave at the thought of their spoiled child being upset. My 50+ aged brother-in-law still throws tantrums and I've never seen my father-in-law do anything back except cringe and wheedle.
​

I can look at the enablers and see how the spoiled-rotten sociopaths I know came about. But, I am having a huge problem seeing how the enablers that are so successful in so many other parts of their lives can be so obsessive about their little sociopaths?

I do disagree with all who say Cindy did not love Casey and Caylee. My father-in-law is a brave war hero who has and would again sacrifice his life for others. I've seen the tears and grief over what his son is. Cindy looks equally defeated. But, my father-in-law, despite swearing every time he is going to harden his heart, can't stop enabling. He is like a gerbil running uselessly on his wheel.

Thank you for the above. How far will a parent go to have their child love and respect them? Fortunately for me, my girls did and do, but if I'd had a highly manipulative child incapable of love or respect - I truly don't know.

By the way, not intending to make Cindy the victim here - but we have talked so much about Cindy being in control of this family, and when I look at George and ICA - I'm completely bewildered where the word "control" comes in. (who knows about Lee!) Sure superficially it appeared she did - but in actual deeds or actions - they both seemed to completely ignore CA and went on their jolly way doing whatever they wanted.

 

[LambChop]

What really is scary is the fact that many of us here either have someone like this in our family, or we know of someone within our group of friends who are dealing with someone like this. But the fact remains not everyone who has this psychological problem kills their child, or anyone for that matter.

 

[logicalgirl]

What really is scary is the fact that many of us here either have someone like this in our family, or we know of someone within our group of friends who are dealing with someone like this. But the fact remains not everyone who has this psychological problem kills their child, or anyone for that matter.

Absolutely and the experts apparently agree with you - while all sociopaths/psychopaths have the same "empty soul" there are some who are lazy, some who are ambitious, some who stick to white collar crime, stealing and swindling, and some are serial killers. But all share the same trait, they do not care who or what they hurt.