Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[Woe.be.gone]

Those that enable are just as disturbed as the sociopaths they enable. And even more frustrating to be around. At least sociopaths are charming when they want something. My experience with enablers is that they are strong willed go-getters that have the tact of bull-dozers.

I know an elderly couple that kept on lending their sociopath son money for grandiose schemes until they went bankrupt and the farm that had been in the family for generations ended up sold at a sheriff's auction. But, still the couple defended their thieving son and went to all of their friends to try to get money for their son's defense. The son shot himself on the day he was supposed to turn himself in. The elderly father died soon after that. The elderly mother lives with her DIL (my aunt) and is every bit as strong and untruthful in her defense of her son as Cindy Anthony.

The other enabler that I know in real life is my father-in-law. His son, my brother-in-law, has never, ever, suffered a single consequence for ANYTHING bad he has done because my father-in-law buys his way out. My brother-in-law is over 50 years old and last week my father-in-law gave $12K to my BIL's victim to keep the victim from going to authorities. My father-in-law pretends to be dumb and says he believes everything my brother-in-law says.

The enablers I know have things in common with Cindy:

They don't steal, nor would they.

They lie.

They are highly organized in their own lives. Cindy's house kept her house neat as a pin...something not easy to do when have the worries of a deathly ill father, marital woes, a thieving husband and daughter, a full-time job and a toddler with thousands of toys to strew.

They are goal oriented and high achievers. The enablers I know and Cindy Anthony all finished college. They did outstandingly well at work and had stable, even exemplary, work histories.

They are strong people (you might say dominating control-freaks).

They are perfectionists.

They go weak at the knees and cave at the thought of their spoiled child being upset. My 50+ aged brother-in-law still throws tantrums and I've never seen my father-in-law do anything back except cringe and wheedle.
​

I can look at the enablers and see how the spoiled-rotten sociopaths I know came about. But, I am having a huge problem seeing how the enablers that are so successful in so many other parts of their lives can be so obsessive about their little sociopaths?

I do disagree with all who say Cindy did not love Casey and Caylee. My father-in-law is a brave war hero who has and would again sacrifice his life for others. I've seen the tears and grief over what his son is. Cindy looks equally defeated. But, my father-in-law, despite swearing every time he is going to harden his heart, can't stop enabling. He is like a gerbil running uselessly on his wheel.

I think the enablers are like that due to their need to control things and other people. They can't let go because they own everybody and everything. They are the center and have big egos. Because they are bright and successful they often can fix things. They keep very busy and may not ever make time for self reflection - everyone needs them too much.

 

[logicalgirl]

^ Denial and shame play a large roll too.

My sister and I know a girl from our childhood who we were both besties with at different times, I shared a house with her in the early '90s as a student and awakened to the fact that she is a sociopath after having to live with her crazymaking ways, there was only one explanation and once I saw through her it was as clear as day, so I cut ties completely without notice, and without explanation.

Naturally I warned my sis, but for the past near 20 years my sister has suffered repeated humiliations through her friendship with this girl. I have explained to her over and over that is is just a game, that it is deliberate, and that my sisters humiliation and shame is the desired outcome of the manipulations and that it is just one big triumphant joke to the sociopath each time she is successful.

This advice goes nowhere, each time I piece it together for my little sis and she understands and says 'yes, it's true OMG' and she stays away for a couple of months, and each time I get a phone call down the track to say 'well we had a talk, I told her how I felt and I think we made a mistake, she actually.....[insert crazymaking excuse here].

My sister just doesn't want to admit it, she doesn't want to admit that 30 years of friendship with someone who is vivacious, fun, charismatic and scholarly has all been one great big sick game of one-upmanship based on a narcissistic need. To admit that would mean to also admit that she has been duped, that she has been foolish, and that she should have listened to me (LOL). I'll keep on keeping a very close watch, but there is little I can do in regards to protecting her.

I am sure it is near impossible to believe that your own child is playing sick games with your head if you are in fact the parent, and to also admit that your little charmer has caused deliberate damage to others, and will continue to do so throughout their lives and there is in fact no hope for change.

No excuse however for the Anthony's own deplorable behavior. They may not be able to control Casey, but they can damned well control themselves, and they sure as s*** should have done more to protect precious Caylee.

Wonderful post - thank you! You have given a brilliant description of sociopath behavior which we who have "souls" cannot comprehend. We cannot comprehend how or why an individual would toy with us like a cat toys with a mouse - just for fun.

 

[Chiquita71]

This reminded me that I watched the cutest movie yesterday. It was funny and silly with serious undertones about two families coming together because their son and daughter were planning to marry. It was Christmastime and the girl's family who was Jewish came to visit the boy's family who was Christian. At first all these conflicts cropped up but, because both families were good at heart, they ended up coming to terms with each other and united.

At the end pf the movie, the mother of the boy said to her son something like, 'I'm afraid if my children move away it means I did something wrong, I failed.' The young man replied, 'Mom, you did everything right. You raised a son who can stand on his own two feet who will come home to see you because he misses you.' IMO that's what we should want, children who grow up and are able to function in the world, who try to fulfill their own needs without guilt from their parents but still know they have are a family behind them.

Quote Respect Woe.be.gone.
BBM & UBM

Right!? Exactly. Thank you.

:blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

BBM

But, OLG, it was your brother's decision to rob his place of work.

Same with my brother-in-law. He wasn't so cowed and lacking in confidence from being enabled that he couldn't figure out how to fudge ledgers and cover his thefts. He just wasn't good enough to fool an auditor.

My brother-in-law is responsible for his choices. I think my father-in-law is so disgusting for feeling sorry for my brother-in-law and giving in to his tears and pleas for money that I was too mad to sleep last night.

But, my brother-in-law is over 50 years old. He is a big boy. My father-in-law didn't do the crime.

Same with Casey. Figuring out how to route bank numbers to pay her phone bill and then going from one of Cindy's accounts to another shows that Casey was able to accomplish what she deemed important to accomplish.

Casey is a grown woman. She had a car. She had a phone. She had clothes to wear to work. Casey was able to get out of the house 3 to 4 nights a week to see Ricardo. Maybe she should have gotten a job waiting tables during her evenings the way Amy did? She could have worked as one of the shot girls at Fusian and actually earned money instead of just hanging out.

Casey isn't and wasn't a browbeaten shrinking violet afraid to make a move on her own.

Casey had enough confidence in herself to barge in on Tony and his roommates and stay, she managed shot girls, she was able to bull***** Cindy and to keep her at bay for 31 days, she was able to weasel the use of Tony's car for a week, to weasel into Amy's car for a week...it takes balls to push into people's houses and "borrow" their cars. Watch Casey at the hearings, she's not worriedly looking to her attorneys for approval...she's not intimidated because she's in a courtroom in front of a judge and on trial for her life. Nope, she thinks she is her attorney's equal.

Casey's and my brother-in-law's decisions to use their creative talents into stealing instead of something more productive were choices, made by them. Lee was raised by the same parents as Cindy. He makes it on his own. He also has a solid work history. My husband was raised by the same parent as his brother. He's been pretty successful at his chosen career and is the most honest human I have ever met.

Children in a personality disordered home are often raised very differently while living in the same home... with the same parents. They have the "good one" and the "bad one" and each are treated very differently. Sure they were raised in the same home but they aren't raised in the same way.

I have always been very clear in stating everyone (even the mentally ill ) should be held acountable for their own actions.. that we all choose our own behaviors. you don't need to try and convince me. I simply feel personality disorders are far more complex than simple genetics and every angle needs to be addressed if we as a society are to ever understand these illnesses and do something about them instead of blaming a persons genetic make-up and accepting their failures as a given. Society need to understand how this happens to people, why people adopt certain coping mechanisms, why people shut themselves off and what we can do about it before it's too late.

People assume someone is a psychopath because of their behaviors.. but many of the same traits are found in borderline personality disorder. and borderline personality disorder is treatable (difficult to treat but still treatable). you put the "psychopath" lable on them and turn them into a monster assuming they are hopeless because they have traits of a psychopath but they also have traits of a borderline and you can't over-look that. Society needs to stop over-looking that. This is peoples lives we are talking about.. you can't just assume they can't be helped because sometimes they can be.

I know what a psychopath looks like. Mine (step-father) finally killed himself and I'll tell ya, I wasn't sad to see him go. I know what they are capable of and I know the games they play- I'm not in need of a lesson on psychopathic behavior. I just don't think Casey is a psychopath- I think she is a product of her environment. IMO She could have been helped- this could have been avioded- had anyone paid attention when she first started to display the behaviors.. had she been held accountable and forced to grow up. She was allowed to continue her behaviors (which were her choice but somebody should have stepped in and stopped her.. it's a parents job) and this is what happened.. now she's pretty much doomed, can't help her now it's too late. We can't keep ignoring our childrens problems because it's too hard on us, we need to stop walking around on eggshells with our children.. it causes damage! Society needs to know what happens and understand how it happens -that's the only way we can begin to make a change.

I have discussed little bits and peices of my life here and been unafraid to do so because I think it's important that people know what parents like mine (and your brother-in-law and Cindy Anthony etc) do to their children. It took me a long time to be able to come to grips with the destrucion and pain I caused in peoples lives and the way I CHOSE to live my life.. simply because I couldn't see it.. I was so busy being a victim that I shut myself off from any pain at all and felt nothing but anger.. toward my mother, toward her choice of a husband, toward society for ignoring it and at myself for letting it "get me".. Right or wrong- it's real.. it's something that happens often when people are "raised" in a personality disordered home, when they are cheated out of an actual "rasing".. I'm not saying it's good or it's right, because it's not. I'm simply saying it happens, not everyone is as strong as all these people on here who tell their stories of "I grew up like that but I didn't let it wreck me- I made a better life for myself" some of us do let it wreck us (as screwed up as that is) and people need to know that! They also need to know that they do not have to stay that way, they can heal, gain an understanding of what's wrong with them and learn other ways to cope. Sure not everyone can be helped but I'm not willing to assume they can't be.. people assumed that about me and it wasn't true.

I know that a child can be born with a genetic predisposition but people don’t always end up with the things to which they are predisposed. (think of the cancer gene.. heart disease.. if your parents have it you are predisposed but it doesn't mean you are destined to get it.. you simply have an elavated risk) Your environment plays a huge role in the expression of good and bad genes. What you choose to do with it is up to you but it has to be acknowledged because it is a factor. Casey CHOSE to (allegedly) kill Caylee and now, finally, she will be held accountable.. she will have to deal with the repercussions of her actions and mommy can't fix it for her, can't sweep it under the rug like the pregnancy, the highschool diploma, the fake job for 3 years, the stealing of the gas cans, the stealing from her grandmother. What Casey did was her choice and she should be held accountable but her upbringing played a large part.. it doesn't make what she did OK, or make it anyone elses fault but her own . but it can't be ignored... it's a factor.

"Learning would be exceedingly laborious, not to mention hazardous, if people had to rely solely on the effects of their own actions to inform them what to do. Fortunately, most human behavior is learned observationally through modeling: from observing others one forms an idea of how new behaviors are performed, and on later occasions this coded information serves as a guide for action."
-Albert Bandura, Social Learning TheoryCriminality Is a Product of Genes and Environment
Maureen E. Wood
Rochester Institute of Technology

http://www.personalityresearch.org/papers/jones.html

http://teachnet.edb.utexas.edu/~Lynda_abbot/Social.html

 

[claudicici]

:clap:
ITA ,one lost girl.....I think people use the "psychopath/sociopath" angle way too often.I never believed ICA to be a sociopath either.I think it's almost a cope mechanism people have to label killers as psychopaths.When they hear of something horrible that happened it's easier to cope with if the perpetrator is a sociopath.But they don't realize that they're actually making an excuse for the perp.
ICA is a product of her environment.She made her choices based on that.

 

[logicalgirl]

:clap:
ITA ,one lost girl.....I think people use the "psychopath/sociopath" angle way too often.I never believed ICA to be a sociopath either.I think it's almost a cope mechanism people have to label killers as psychopaths.When they hear of something horrible that happened it's easier to cope with if the perpetrator is a sociopath.But they don't realize that they're actually making an excuse for the perp.
ICA is a product of her environment.She made her choices based on that.

I wish I could agree with you and blame ICA's behavior on her upbringing, and lay the blame at the feet of Cindy and George - that would be so easy wouldn't it and just give me hours and months in fact, of fun speculation about their psyche and making bold guesstimate statements about their systemic family functions.

But there are more than 35 years of highly documented work of more than a hundred highly respected clinicians and researchers who search for both answers and treatments for this small segment of the population that is so destructive to society and the lives of individual people.

So for me, the opposite is true, the easy route is to blame it on the Anthony's, and ICA's childhood. For me that is the wah wah route defense attorneys always take in defense of criminals.

Yes, I believe as relatively mentally healthy individuals we can choose not to be a victim or to victimize those who cross our paths. Despite horrendous childhoods, we can, with enough help, choose to alter our reality - I am living proof of someone who should have been just another sad statistic.

Watch ICA closely from the minute she steps into court and until she steps out. There is no chance this woman has a "normal" range of emotions and could have been influenced by nuturing.

 

[LambChop]

Millons of people are raised in homes where there is some type of disfunction and they don't go out and kill there child. Against human nature to do so. To deliberately kill you child and then show no remorse but cry when your attorney says you are someone's child sounds like a person who is only concerned about their own well being.

Sorry but things were not that bad at the A's for KC not to have gotten a job and gone out on her own. To me I see signs of a sociopath. jmo

 

[affinity]

Children in a personality disordered home are often raised very differently while living in the same home... with the same parents. They have the "good one" and the "bad one" and each are treated very differently. Sure they were raised in the same home but they aren't raised in the same way.

I have always been very clear in stating everyone (even the mentally ill ) should be held acountable for their own actions.. that we all choose our own behaviors. you don't need to try and convince me. I simply feel personality disorders are far more complex than simple genetics and every angle needs to be addressed if we as a society are to ever understand these illnesses and do something about them instead of blaming a persons genetic make-up and accepting their failures as a given. Society need to understand how this happens to people, why people adopt certain coping mechanisms, why people shut themselves off and what we can do about it before it's too late.

People assume someone is a psychopath because of their behaviors.. but many of the same traits are found in borderline personality disorder. and borderline personality disorder is treatable (difficult to treat but still treatable). you put the "psychopath" lable on them and turn them into a monster assuming they are hopeless because they have traits of a psychopath but they also have traits of a borderline and you can't over-look that. Society needs to stop over-looking that. This is peoples lives we are talking about.. you can't just assume they can't be helped because sometimes they can be.

I know what a psychopath looks like. Mine (step-father) finally killed himself and I'll tell ya, I wasn't sad to see him go. I know what they are capable of and I know the games they play- I'm not in need of a lesson on psychopathic behavior. I just don't think Casey is a psychopath- I think she is a product of her environment. IMO She could have been helped- this could have been avioded- had anyone paid attention when she first started to display the behaviors.. had she been held accountable and forced to grow up. She was allowed to continue her behaviors (which were her choice but somebody should have stepped in and stopped her.. it's a parents job) and this is what happened.. now she's pretty much doomed, can't help her now it's too late. We can't keep ignoring our childrens problems because it's too hard on us, we need to stop walking around on eggshells with our children.. it causes damage! Society needs to know what happens and understand how it happens -that's the only way we can begin to make a change.

I have discussed little bits and peices of my life here and been unafraid to do so because I think it's important that people know what parents like mine (and your brother-in-law and Cindy Anthony etc) do to their children. It took me a long time to be able to come to grips with the destrucion and pain I caused in peoples lives and the way I CHOSE to live my life.. simply because I couldn't see it.. I was so busy being a victim that I shut myself off from any pain at all and felt nothing but anger.. toward my mother, toward her choice of a husband, toward society for ignoring it and at myself for letting it "get me".. Right or wrong- it's real.. it's something that happens often when people are "raised" in a personality disordered home, when they are cheated out of an actual "rasing".. I'm not saying it's good or it's right, because it's not. I'm simply saying it happens, not everyone is as strong as all these people on here who tell their stories of "I grew up like that but I didn't let it wreck me- I made a better life for myself" some of us do let it wreck us (as screwed up as that is) and people need to know that! They also need to know that they do not have to stay that way, they can heal, gain an understanding of what's wrong with them and learn other ways to cope. Sure not everyone can be helped but I'm not willing to assume they can't be.. people assumed that about me and it wasn't true.

I know that a child can be born with a genetic predisposition but people don’t always end up with the things to which they are predisposed. (think of the cancer gene.. heart disease.. if your parents have it you are predisposed but it doesn't mean you are destined to get it.. you simply have an elavated risk) Your environment plays a huge role in the expression of good and bad genes. What you choose to do with it is up to you but it has to be acknowledged because it is a factor. Casey CHOSE to (allegedly) kill Caylee and now, finally, she will be held accountable.. she will have to deal with the repercussions of her actions and mommy can't fix it for her, can't sweep it under the rug like the pregnancy, the highschool diploma, the fake job for 3 years, the stealing of the gas cans, the stealing from her grandmother. What Casey did was her choice and she should be held accountable but her upbringing played a large part.. it doesn't make what she did OK, or make it anyone elses fault but her own . but it can't be ignored... it's a factor.

"Learning would be exceedingly laborious, not to mention hazardous, if people had to rely solely on the effects of their own actions to inform them what to do. Fortunately, most human behavior is learned observationally through modeling: from observing others one forms an idea of how new behaviors are performed, and on later occasions this coded information serves as a guide for action."
-Albert Bandura, Social Learning TheoryCriminality Is a Product of Genes and Environment
Maureen E. Wood
Rochester Institute of Technology

http://www.personalityresearch.org/papers/jones.html

http://teachnet.edb.utexas.edu/~Lynda_abbot/Social.html

OneLostGrl, thanks for this post. It is extremely rare to see a post that addresses the ramifications of being raised by a personality disordered parent. Unless you have first hand experience, the tendency is to throw a big blanket over KC and label her a psychopath and pretend that she became that way due to just being a "bad seed". A simplistic view! Many look at CA & GA with envy...they worked (well, CA did) and they kept a nice house, etc. and with all that "support" KC "should have" come to grips with any little old personality disorders and grown up and stopped lying (and on and on)....but what about the fact that from cradle to jail cell KC was raised by crazy making people? Where was KC supposed to get independence and autonomy? Was she supposed to pull it from out of the sky? I agree with you, that we can't ever provide excuses for KC, but you and I can empathize with the situation and have understanding (to some degree) for how and why she is where she is and we shouldn't be surprised by the people who want to see her fry..after all, it is our collective job to see to the needs of small innocent children...no matter if we are blood related or not. Society must look after children and punish people who hurt them. STILL. I can't agree with you more...that it is also our job to look at what was the environment that led to such a horrific crime. It is easy just to fan away any notion that KC was a victim.....unless, of course, you are a product of emotional abuse yourself....then it is a bit easier to "go there".

If one looks at any killer you will find "issues" (generally with parents)--killers do not become killers simply because they were a "bad seed". Why people want to discount KC's upbringing and environment and insist that she was just "selfish" is a bit beyond me. It is too simplistic an answer. And why when it is pointed out that KC was "shaped" into who she is it seen as some sort of affront? Something that needs to be shot down? KC was taught to lie by her parents...she didn't come up with that behavior on her own. People just love to hate KC and do not want to give her an inch. Understandable...but also short sighted if we are to ever understand how to help other people in this world. We can hang em high but isn't it a good idea to learn how to help people who were raised in abusive environments. Isn't that also our job as a society?

 

[logicalgirl]

OneLostGrl, thanks for this post. It is extremely rare to see a post that addresses the ramifications of being raised by a personality disordered parent. Unless you have first hand experience, the tendency is to throw a big blanket over KC and label her a psychopath and pretend that she became that way due to just being a "bad seed". A simplistic view! Many look at CA & GA with envy...they worked (well, CA did) and they kept a nice house, etc. and with all that "support" KC "should have" come to grips with any little old personality disorders and grown up and stopped lying (and on and on)....but what about the fact that from cradle to jail cell KC was raised by crazy making people? Where was KC supposed to get independence and autonomy? Was she supposed to pull it from out of the sky? I agree with you, that we can't ever provide excuses for KC, but you and I can empathize with the situation and have understanding (to some degree) for how and why she is where she is and we shouldn't be surprised by the people who want to see her fry..after all, it is our collective job to see to the needs of small innocent children...no matter if we are blood related or not. Society must look after children and punish people who hurt them. STILL. I can't agree with you more...that it is also our job to look at what was the environment that led to such a horrific crime. It is easy just to fan away any notion that KC was a victim.....unless, of course, you are a product of emotional abuse yourself....then it is a bit easier to "go there".

If one looks at any killer you will find "issues" (generally with parents)--killers do not become killers simply because they were a "bad seed". Why people want to discount KC's upbringing and environment and insist that she was just "selfish" is a bit beyond me. It is too simplistic an answer. And why when it is pointed out that KC was "shaped" into who she is it seen as some sort of affront? Something that needs to be shot down? KC was taught to lie by her parents...she didn't come up with that behavior on her own. People just love to hate KC and do not want to give her an inch. Understandable...but also short sighted if we are to ever understand how to help other people in this world. We can hang em high but isn't it a good idea to learn how to help people who were raised in abusive environments. Isn't that also our job as a society?

I'd like to make a couple of points here just to clarify.

First, I hope it wasn't to me your comments of unless you raised by a personality disordered parent was specifically directed at me. Because if you were, that is laughable. Big laughable.

I guess I could take the next three pages of this thread describing my family structure and the absolute and tragic havoc it has created on my siblings, and myself. The past IS the past, we can't change it. But I made a conscious choice to unhook that particular boxcar from this train I'm driving, and I only use those past key points of routes not to travel only.

I am not denying "nuture" has a definite effect on how we view ourselves in this world. But there is a point in time where we come to a spot in time where we must view ourselves a separate beings, separate from the conditions we were raised in and separate from the parents who raised. We do have the power to be whoever we want to be. It is very easy to look back and point fingers at the reasons why we've had "issues" in life.

I was recently in deep conversation with a good friend of mine who was bewailing his inability to have a long term relationship on his father who declared he was gay and left the home of his mother and his children. My response was - "Are you freaking kidding me???? You are forty-seven years old!" What is your excuse for acting like a seven year old?? Get a grip!

And your last sentence "understand how to help people in this world" - isn't that just what psychologists and clinicians who devote their lives to this work are trying to do? Many sociopaths come from loving caring homes. Yes, we should protect ourselves by shutting away the 13 year old who picks up a gun and kills three people. And sure we should try to treat that "child". And more definitely yes, it would be helpful if we know about this particularly deviant type of personality disorder who kills without remorse to protect society from them. You can feel free to "understand them", I want them stopped and those like ICA,who have already broken the law, punished.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I am not educated enough on the many disorders to label anyone in the Anthony family with one, but from where I am standing, and following this case for the past 2 1/2 years, none of them are normal.

I just rewatched one of Cindy's earlier interviews with Greta and Cindy refers to herself 79 times, that I counted. She mentions Caylee's name 13 times. I couldn't listen to it for a third time to count how many times she mentions Casey's name... I do know it was more than 13. Not one of the 13 times she mentions Caylee's name, does she beg and plead for her safe return. She did make sure to tell Greta that she would give Greta another interview, but her day was full the next day.

One thing I have learned about Cindy is that she LOVES to be the victim. Not even during this interview can she take the attention off herself and put it 100% on Caylee... the real victim. Anytime Caylee is mentioned, she has to one-up it by talking about herself... what she is going through... how she hasn't slept. How she hasn't ate. How she is going to pass out. Blah... Blah... Blah.

 

[Kimster]

I am not educated enough on the many disorders to label anyone in the Anthony family with one, but from where I am standing, and following this case for the past 2 1/2 years, none of them are normal.

I just rewatched one of Cindy's earlier interviews with Greta and Cindy refers to herself 79 times, that I counted. She mentions Caylee's name 13 times. I couldn't listen to it for a third time to count how many times she mentions Casey's name... I do know it was more than 13. Not one of the 13 times she mentions Caylee's name, does she beg and plead for her safe return. She did make sure to tell Greta that she would give Greta another interview, but her day was full the next day.

One thing I have learned about Cindy is that she LOVES to be the victim. Not even during this interview can she take the attention off herself and put it 100% on Caylee... the real victim. Anytime Caylee is mentioned, she has to one-up it by talking about herself... what she is going through... how she hasn't slept. How she hasn't ate. How she is going to pass out. Blah... Blah... Blah.

That was the very first interview I saw in this case. My immediate reaction was "this woman is more concerned about fame than her grandchild".

Very telling.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQp_-iEJ5s[/ame]

I also thought it was odd that she was so combative when so many other families of missing children would give everything to have a spot on Greta's show.

 

[LolaMoon08]

That was the very first interview I saw in this case. My immediate reaction was "this woman is more concerned about fame than her grandchild".

Very telling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQp_-iEJ5s

I also thought it was odd that she was so combative when so many other families of missing children would give everything to have a spot on Greta's show.

That is why I can not accept that they didn't know that Casey had done something to Caylee, even that early in the case. No one would ever put so much emphasis on themselves when their two-year-old grandbaby is missing, would they?

When I watch this interview, I can't help but wonder why Cindy, so worried about her own sleep, didn't worry about where Caylee was sleeping all those days? Did she even have a bed? A blanket to keep warm? Could she be crying out for her grandma or her Joe Joe? Cindy's own sleep should not have even been a concern if she was thinking about what Caylee could possibly be going through. Same thing with how she hadn't eaten? Caylee could have been starving for all she knew? She had these concerns about Caylee on July 3rd, when she thought that she was with Casey... but somehow all those concerns disappear once Caylee has been missing that entire time?

I just don't understand any of them. Never will.

 

[LancelotLink]

That is why I can not accept that they didn't know that Casey had done something to Caylee, even that early in the case. No one would ever put so much emphasis on themselves when their two-year-old grandbaby is missing, would they?

When I watch this interview, I can't help but wonder why Cindy, so worried about her own sleep, didn't worry about where Caylee was sleeping all those days? Did she even have a bed? A blanket to keep warm? Could she be crying out for her grandma or her Joe Joe? Cindy's own sleep should not have even been a concern if she was thinking about what Caylee could possibly be going through. Same thing with how she hadn't eaten? Caylee could have been starving for all she knew? She had these concerns about Caylee on July 3rd, when she thought that she was with Casey... but somehow all those concerns disappear once Caylee has been missing that entire time?

I just don't understand any of them. Never will.

This interview is the one that put the hinky in my meter! Immediately the hair stood up and a horrified silence fell from my open mouth. She knew, he knew, they had to know. This MOTY crap started after Caylee was murdered. Certainly not before.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

^ I figure they already knew Caylee was dead because of the car and 31 days, so they figure well they can't do anything to change that, but they could work so save Casey. The whole missing Caylee farce was just a ruse to try and save her and they freaking knew it! The money from media and donations was just a bonus. After the first couple of days of the investigation and once Casey was locked up they've been acting as the family of the accused acts, while pretending and demanding to be treated as the family of the victim.

I wish they would just drop Casey like a hot rock, just for the fun of watching them come out with a few awkward comments for her but they won't. It's the Anthony's vs public opinion now and they are way too invested to back out of the fight now!

Cindy more than George however, if anyone cracks it'll be him IMO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

That was the very first interview I saw in this case. My immediate reaction was "this woman is more concerned about fame than her grandchild".

Very telling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQp_-iEJ5s

I also thought it was odd that she was so combative when so many other families of missing children would give everything to have a spot on Greta's show.

Yeah, I can't even watch that video anymore, it's just makes me cringe.

 

[LancelotLink]

^ I figure they already knew Caylee was dead because of the car and 31 days, so they figure well they can't do anything to change that, but they could work so save Casey. The whole missing Caylee farce was just a ruse to try and save her and they freaking knew it! The money from media and donations was just a bonus. After the first couple of days of the investigation and once Casey was locked up they've been acting as the family of the accused acts, while pretending and demanding to be treated as the family of the victim.

I wish they would just drop Casey like a hot rock, just for the fun of watching them come out with a few awkward comments for her but they won't. It's the Anthony's vs public opinion now and they are way too invested to back out of the fight now!

Cindy more than George however, if anyone cracks it'll be him IMO.

That would be nice, but if they didn't drop her once WE learned about the duct tape, it won't happen. I believe the duct tape is the reason Baez "refused" to let them speak with ICA unless he was there. He knew then. They knew shortly afterwards. Before the meet and greet. Here I go again...starting to sound like LP...

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Haha. I'm not convinced Baez knew anything about the body before it was found, but think he certainly knew enough about his client to know she needed to be kept quiet.

 

[Chiquita71]

Because I go back and forth as to why some people do "evil" deeds and some do not-I can understand everyone's point of view about Casey and Cindy. Nature vs. nurture, psychopath, sociopath, personality disorder, narcissist, just plain evil, etc.

I understand what it is like to live with crazy making people and they are the reason I really want to understand this type of behavior. I think I was drawn to this case because the Anthony family behavior reminds me so much of my own family.

I feel like the more it is discussed the more confused I get because everyone makes sense. It seems Casey and those like her must be born with some kind of issue that caused her to find it more difficult to...? And, Cindy did not just get as crazy as she is since Caylee went missing, how could being born of Cindy raised by Cindy, not have an effect?

Yet, I have to agree that many people have it much worse than what Casey had(even with the Cindy factor)and they rise above. And, if someone hurt me in a terrible way-hearing that they were abused as a child would not make me think it was okay or easier to understand why they hurt me. I tend to think if you have been hurt badly by someone else, either physically or emotionally you then even more so never wish to hurt someone else in that way. But, it seems those who hurt the most must be the most hurt?

I agree with the statement that not everyone is as strong as others. Some people are not born with the energy it takes to overcome the dark that is inside them and done to them.

I play with the idea that people like Casey do feel strong emotions, maybe even stronger than you or I...it is just they are all for herself.

Here is where we have to discuss souls. That is what I think is the missing link(if you will)in the nurture vs. nature debate. I believe the factors that determine a person's make up are-body mind and spirit. It takes these three to create the person you see before you. The problem is there is controversy in speaking of the etheral because of its connection to religion. But since this is the psych thread we will all just chalk my talk up to my imagination. lol. :crazy:

For me it is not about religion. Its just about your soul. And a soul is pure love. Everyone has one but not everyone uses it...or is advanced enough to utilize it. I guess if we take this too far we will say the person did their deed because they were an "unadvanced soul" but that still wouldn't take away their responsibility for the deed-in my book it makes them more responsible.

Here's the rub: I think people like Casey and Cindy are souls who are not advanced. They are not connected to a higher source, so their every thought is of the material world. Evil spelled backward is life and I think that is what "evil" really is, life backward. For as much havoc these people visit upon their victims, I believe we witness the havoc that is inside of them. A person like Casey is all pure emotion, pure ego...when she felt hurt or betrayed(or her ego felt that way)she used her pure ego to alleviate her pain. From the perspective of a higher energy, these people exist in hell.

Sometimes, I think they are probably the most needy pathetic people on earth and like dangerous hurt animals(not to disparage the animals: first human beings are animals and second most animals are more advanced than many human beings) they lash out and innocent people get hurt in the process. What is a sociopath? What is a psychopath? Someone said they are each their own unique monster, maybe I said that but either way I agree. If we are all immortal souls on an endless journey(and that is the only comfort I find when thinking about babies like Caylee, she cannot have her chances for life taken by another for long)and we go on then it is possible that people like Casey have been making poor choices for much longer than we have known her...ahem.

Karma is the universal law of cause and effect. If you choose the red ball you didn't choose the black ball. Our souls are supposed to be the sum total of all our choices and experiences(at any given time), that is also our "karma." I do see karma as kind of impersonal as to its workings but I also believe there is a very personal energy at work behind all that-and it works on a now moment basis so that when any soul is ready to "turn around" it is never too late, however it can be too late in a given lifetime.

Many souls(especially in the previous generations)did not find a way to overcome their issues before the end of each lifetime and for someone like Casey, who took things this far, it can be said that for some there is no hope in this lifetime.

Part of this discussion, I think, is about free will. I believe in free will, I was shocked to discover that not everyone believes it exists. I'm not talking about you or me but in an official scholarly way. The ancient Greeks had this argument, it is argued by the religious, etc. I say that if I do not have free will then I can not be held accountable for believing in free will... :waitasec:

Casey and Cindy had and have free will, imho. The problem is, they are making their free will decisions from a faulty source. They make their decisions from their egos and not from their souls/hearts or even minds. Even a non passionate type soul can use their mind power and avoid such evil acts. Human beings, as the animal- have the capacity to kill. And, for many different reasons. I think Casey made the decision to kill Caylee of her own free(but damaged)will. If she really wrote in her diary what she wrote after she killed Caylee, we can see she is aware of her free will. That it was a choice she made. Although, she would also say she felt she had no other choice.

Sometimes we have to die to see what those other choices might have been. In my super duper I know nothing more than anyone else does, opinion.

I agree that we do need to understand this type of human behavior and we need to understand all forms of abuse. All abuse must stop. But, for that to happen is a very complicated process-I have the advice but no answers. I know discussions such as the ones we have here, with people so willing to be open and share is a beginning. Thank you from my soul to everyone who shares their experiences, it matters. It will matter to future generations. Contrary to what it seems, things are better for children and women/men in the world than it has been for thousands of years.

:twocents:

 

[Jolynna]

My nephew was diagnosed with an anti-social personality disorder (a sociopath) NOT just because he is a liar and thief. The stuff he writes on his myspace about how he is going to rape and dismember (graphic dismembering details) his mother and I also contributed to the diagnosis.

Casey killed her daughter. It probably was not done in a kind way. Taping over somebody's mouth is personal.

I have cried many a time with my nephew. I took him in despite his myspace postings about me, despite the stealing from everybody and his history as a liar because I felt sorry for him because of his parents. I took him to the best psychiatrist in my area, PLUS a life skills therapist, plus joined a group for parents of young people with problems.

ALL of the "experts" I consulted about my nephews problem said that the last thing my nephew needed was for me and my husband to hold our nephew LESS accountable because of his dysfunctional upbringing.

You, yourself, say that Cindy should have made Casey accountable.

Why should society do less?

It is well past time for Casey to pay up and to be held responsible for her actions.

Almost EVERYONE in prison for a violent crime is from a dysfunctional home. That doesn't make whatever they did less horrific.

 

[jennyb]

Chiquita71 -

I rarely post but read sometimes. Had to log on today though to THANK YOU for this magnificent comment. Really, thank you for sharing these thoughts. I love what you've said.