Casey & Family Psychological Profile #2

[Irish_Eyes]

It's said that it's up to maybe 3%-- that we KNOW of....

If we get conservative, and just go by the 3%, that would mean that there are around 9,000,000 sociopaths in the US.

But, I don't think that counts FUNCTIONAL sociopaths. They ones who live amorally, but not ilegally.

Most figures I've seen are between 3 and 4% of GP. And yes, you are correct, since this is diagnosed individuals, it does not account for the ones who fly "below the radar."

That's the true danger. Think of many of the high profile killers you've read about. Diane Downs, Scott Peterson, OJ, Susan Smith, Dennis Rader aka BTK, etc. etc. Before they killed, no one had any idea of what they were truly capable of....Laci Peterson never dreamed Scott was capable of killing her and Connor....

My own personal guess would be that if we're talking about how many are out there diagnosed and undiagnosed, I would say most are undiagnosed, mostly because the nature of the sociopath is that they are unlikely to seek help as they have no desire to change their behavior....

 

[Brini]

Most figures I've seen are between 3 and 4% of GP. And yes, you are correct, since this is diagnosed individuals, it does not account for the ones who fly "below the radar."

That's the true danger. Think of many of the high profile killers you've read about. Diane Downs, Scott Peterson, OJ, Susan Smith, Dennis Rader aka BTK, etc. etc. Before they killed, no one had any idea of what they were truly capable of....Laci Peterson never dreamed Scott was capable of killing her and Connor....

My own personal guess would be that if we're talking about how many are out there diagnosed and undiagnosed, I would say most are undiagnosed, mostly because the nature of the sociopath is that they are unlikely to seek help as they have no desire to change their behavior....

Right! What's so attractive re: normalcy?

As a shrink said on NG, if YOU could never feel pain, guilt, or shame, would YOU want to change? Even if you could?

All they ever feel is fear, if personally endanged, or depression and/or anger, if personally thwarted.

 

[shadowraiths]

Sociopathy is a toughie, though. It's not curable, at this time

Generally, if you can even GET a sociopath to see a shrink, they just morph into "the perfect patient."

Put a sociopath on a green sofa, they'll turn green. Take one to see, "Bambi," they'll act like a deer. It's all about chameleoning into whatever they think people want to see.

True. Then again, if you can find a way to tap into their self-serving interest in a way that could also result in a positive outcome? Okay, so you'd have an ambulatory sociopath but at least it would be someone who was not harming people.

 

[Brini]

True. Then again, if you can find a way to tap into their self-serving interest in a way that could also result in a positive outcome? Okay, so you'd have an ambulatory sociopath but at least it would be someone who was not harming people.

Well, fortunately most sociopaths don't physically harm people. Most don't even break laws. Their self-interest involves a healthy fear of jail.

They do, of course, wreak a lot of interpersonal and social havoc. Divorce, drugs, "splitting," work problems...

 

[future criminologist]

I think the main problem here in this thread is people are confusing Narcissism, Borderline, Addiction and plain ol' poor choices, criminal behaviors and selfishness with Sociopathy. There is a difference between people who have never been called out on their own bullsh!t and forced to change or lose the person or people they claim to love, people who create chaos everywhere they go and being a Sociopath. People who are impulsive and have no sense of self-actualization and a self-defeating, passive-aggressive way of walking through life, yeah, they have major issues and need help but a Sociopath? A Borderline perhaps, a Narcissist, an addict, a selfish pr!ck even but a Sociopath? No!

Sociopathy goes deeper than that, much deeper. I myself don't think Casey is even a "Sociopath".

Anyway- this is all just my opinion (and as I have said before, I'm certainly no shrink LOL) so take it for what it's worth to ya.

to me, Casey's behavior goes WELL beyond immaturity and selfishness though.
she blatantly stole from her own grandparents and from her friends. she made up her father's stroke, for crying out loud! until someone shows me any evidence that she legitimately CARED about anyone around her, and I don't mean faked caring, there is nothing to me that shows her to be anything but a sociopath.

what is it that you deem to be sociopathic behavior, if not all of the above you mentioned? I'm not trying to be an a-hole, I just want to know what your definition would be, if not all these things. A person doesnt' have to be a serial killer in order to be a sociopath. But killing your own child - yeah, that's a pretty big indicator. I don't know how you can ignore that.

 

[EchointheDark]

Good morning all. I've been a lurker here for quite some time, finally signed up yesterday.

(Just a side note to those who complain about all the visitors so they can't get on the ws themselves; my apologies, I tried using all 3 of my email addys to join before. WS won't take my gmail, hotmail, or yahoo addys. I had to get a 4th email thru my part-time job, but I have achieved that and joined WS!)

Anyway, re KC's psych profile, this is KC's 15 minutes of fame and she's glorying in it. She'll never tell where Caylee is, because then she'll have no power.

The only power or attention she ever attained was not thru her brains (college degree, job titles, income, etc). She was too lazy or underachieving to go get ANY of those, not the slightest effort toward real self-generated success. It was only thru her female parts (the men she could attract, her pregnancy, and baby Caylee) that she got any attention.

This really tells us a lot about the family dynamics in that KC would hide/lie/deny to the point of being a VIRGIN when she's got an obvious baby belly, too, and how fearful she was of ... her mother?

Lie, lie, hide and deny...

... and get away with it. In the end, it all goes away...

 

[essies]

Good morning all. I've been a lurker here for quite some time, finally signed up yesterday.

(Just a side note to those who complain about all the visitors so they can't get on the ws themselves; my apologies, I tried using all 3 of my email addys to join before. WS won't take my gmail, hotmail, or yahoo addys. I had to get a 4th email thru my part-time job, but I have achieved that and joined WS!)

Anyway, re KC's psych profile, this is KC's 15 minutes of fame and she's glorying in it. She'll never tell where Caylee is, because then she'll have no power.

The only power or attention she ever attained was not thru her brains (college degree, job titles, income, etc). She was too lazy or underachieving to go get ANY of those, not the slightest effort toward real self-generated success. It was only thru her female parts (the men she could attract, her pregnancy, and baby Caylee) that she got any attention.

This really tells us a lot about the family dynamics in that KC would hide/lie/deny to the point of being a VIRGIN when she's got an obvious baby belly, too, and how fearful she was of ... her mother?

Lie, lie, hide and deny...

... and get away with it. In the end, it all goes away...

Great first post:clap:
:Welcome-12-june::seeya:

 

[passionflower]

camelion.............blends in with what ever someone wants, but IMO, she has none of herself??? like in jail just adapt to jail life? empty inside and out..........what the h3!!
happened to make her like this? or ar ou born with this?

 

[passionflower]

Good morning all. I've been a lurker here for quite some time, finally signed up yesterday.

(Just a side note to those who complain about all the visitors so they can't get on the ws themselves; my apologies, I tried using all 3 of my email addys to join before. WS won't take my gmail, hotmail, or yahoo addys. I had to get a 4th email thru my part-time job, but I have achieved that and joined WS!)

Anyway, re KC's psych profile, this is KC's 15 minutes of fame and she's glorying in it. She'll never tell where Caylee is, because then she'll have no power.

The only power or attention she ever attained was not thru her brains (college degree, job titles, income, etc). She was too lazy or underachieving to go get ANY of those, not the slightest effort toward real self-generated success. It was only thru her female parts (the men she could attract, her pregnancy, and baby Caylee) that she got any attention.

This really tells us a lot about the family dynamics in that KC would hide/lie/deny to the point of being a VIRGIN when she's got an obvious baby belly, too, and how fearful she was of ... her mother?

Lie, lie, hide and deny...

... and get away with it. In the end, it all goes away...

welcome and your idea is brilliant

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

Friday, November 14, 2008

How does a loving mother become a suspected murderer? Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, known for her keen observation of the BTK serial killer, has more than 20 years of experience in profiling. In an exclusive interview with momlogic, the renowned profiler clues in on Casey Anthony's criminal-like behavior.

Mothers who kill are typically "narcissistic" and "addicted to drama," says Dr. Schurman-Kauflin. Out of sight, out of mind -- that was Casey's reaction to her daughter's disappearance. She let over a month go by without reporting Caylee was missing. Even when Caylee was around, Casey complained about taking care of Caylee, whom she called a "little snot head."
According to Dr. Schurman-Kauflin, Casey's promiscuity and partying also raises questions about her mental state. Female predators are often sexually abused at a young age, which creates a desire to "project an overly sexy image." Just weeks after she told investigators she didn't know Caylee's whereabouts, Casey was photographed at a local lounge drinking with friends. "The partying goes back to Casey's desire to be attractive," says Dr. Schurman-Kauflin. "That's more important to her than her [daughter]. Having children grounds a person, and she didn't want to be grounded."
Another issue is Casey's lying. Investigators have caught Casey lying on numerous occasions. Not only did she claim she worked at Universal Studios, she also told police that Caylee was with her babysitter. The sitter later denied knowing the Anthony family. According to Dr. Schurman-Kauflin, Casey's trail of lies suggests she can't handle the truth. "Reality is ugly and women who kill want beauty," explains Dr. Schurman-Kauflin. "This way they can live in their fantasy world where they are like princesses. In everything they do, they value appearance over substance."
Since Casey hasn't displayed any outward signs of distress, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin believes Caylee's death wasn't an accident. Casey isn't panicking or returning to the scene of the crime. "When reality sets in, guilt usually gets the better of such perpetrators," says Dr. Schurman-Kauflin. "I do not see these behaviors with Casey."
Now that Casey's behind bars, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin thinks she'll probably keep the details of the case to herself. "Casey thinks if she keeps quiet, there will be people who will never believe Caylee was harmed ...When I interviewed female serial killers, they told me that they too keep quiet when questioned." Casey's trial will be held in January.

Link to article http://www.momlogic.com/2008/11/casey_anthonya_criminal_mind.php

 

[OneLostGrl]

to me, Casey's behavior goes WELL beyond immaturity and selfishness though.
she blatantly stole from her own grandparents and from her friends. she made up her father's stroke, for crying out loud! until someone shows me any evidence that she legitimately CARED about anyone around her, and I don't mean faked caring, there is nothing to me that shows her to be anything but a sociopath.

what is it that you deem to be sociopathic behavior, if not all of the above you mentioned? I'm not trying to be an a-hole, I just want to know what your definition would be, if not all these things. A person doesnt' have to be a serial killer in order to be a sociopath. But killing your own child - yeah, that's a pretty big indicator. I don't know how you can ignore that.

I was refering to the posts others were leaving regarding family members etc. who they feel are "Sociopaths". I'm fully aware that Casey's issues go well beyond immaturity and selfishness.

It's my opinion that just because a person has some Sociopathic (ASPD) tendencies or behaviors that does not mean they actually have that particular illness. In personality disorders the "behaviors" or tendencies over-lap so much that in reading the diagnostic criteria it is likely that at least 3 of the behaviors will likely match behaviors from another, different personality disorder.

 

[Whisperer]

In my opinion, the defense will get an evaluation and get an Axis I dx. She definitely has a mood disorder. I would guess the defense psych will say bipolar with psychotic features (leaning towards dissociative behavior) She could fit that easily. The other two choices they have are schiz-affective or depression. Her mood is the dominant trait, since she fluctuates so rapidly (per her friends) I guess bipolar is what they will say.

As far as Axis II is concerned, she is narcisstic and histrionic. Without knowing her childhood and most of teen years, it is difficult to tag her as anti-social. I would be willing to bet the state psych can make a good case for that one.

She is not insane and does know the difference between right and wrong, thus, no insanity plea; however her defense team may joggle for a mental health environment in place of prison.

I am not familiar with Florida law. Some states have an NGI law which means NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY. Criminals who get this ruling go to a state mental hospital and when the staff deems they are better, they are released and go home.

Some states have GUILTY BUT INSANE...with this they also go to the state mental hospital but if the staff decides they are better they are released to state prison to serve their term.

Point is moot because, IMO, she fits neither criteria and will serve her life in a women's prison....she will not like that one bit either.

 

[Harry]

:clap:Excellent observations! I very much agree.

I actually see Susan Smith as more sympathetic than Casey and Diane Downs, as Smith did confess to her crime, shed tears, and allow her childrens' bodies to be recovered.
In contrast, Diane Downs and Casey Anthony have revealed themselves as consistently glib and unrepentant. Psychopathic killers, IMO.

Hey all,
Been away and apologize for catching up. Is that picture of Casey next to Diane Downs her mug shot?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Hey all,
Been away and apologize for catching up. Is that picture of Casey next to Diane Downs her mug shot?

No.. there was some debate going on as to when it was actually taken but my understanding is that it was on the day she was arrested for child neglect, etc.

 

[OneLostGrl]

In my opinion, the defense will get an evaluation and get an Axis I dx. She definitely has a mood disorder. I would guess the defense psych will say bipolar with psychotic features (leaning towards dissociative behavior) She could fit that easily. The other two choices they have are schiz-affective or depression. Her mood is the dominant trait, since she fluctuates so rapidly (per her friends) I guess bipolar is what they will say.

As far as Axis II is concerned, she is narcisstic and histrionic. Without knowing her childhood and most of teen years, it is difficult to tag her as anti-social. I would be willing to bet the state psych can make a good case for that one.

She is not insane and does know the difference between right and wrong, thus, no insanity plea; however her defense team may joggle for a mental health environment in place of prison.

I am not familiar with Florida law. Some states have an NGI law which means NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY. Criminals who get this ruling go to a state mental hospital and when the staff deems they are better, they are released and go home.

Some states have NOT GUILTY BUT INSANE...with this they also go to the state mental hospital but if the staff decides they are better they are released to state prison to serve their term.

Point is moot because, IMO, she fits neither criteria and will serve her life in a women's prison....she will not like that one bit either.

I wouldn't count on that Axis I diagnosis. IMO

 

[Whisperer]

I made an error in the second to last paragraph....It should read GUILTY BUT INSANE. I apologize for that.

I agree One Lost Girl...I was saying they could come up with that, easily, not that they necessarily will....or have to. Looking at it objectively, you could make a case for BP I...pressured speech, mood changes, erratic behavior, sexual promiscuity, aggression.

I got the impression you may be suggesting she doesn't have a mood disorder or do you think she has something else?

BP I seems like a shoo-in to me....but I am open to any other opinions.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I made an error in the second to last paragraph....It should read GUILTY BUT INSANE. I apologize for that.

I agree One Lost Girl...I was saying they could come up with that, easily, not that they necessarily will....or have to. Looking at it objectively, you could make a case for BP I...pressured speech, mood changes, erratic behavior, sexual promiscuity, aggression.

I got the impression you may be suggesting she doesn't have a mood disorder or do you think she has something else?

BP I seems like a shoo-in to me....but I am open to any other opinions.

Everything you listed above also comes with personality disorders. No, I don't think she has a mood disorder but that's just me.

 

[jeepgirlva]

Odldy enough, my younger sister was identical to Casey when she was in her teens and early 20's (back in the 80's). She lied about everything. Dropped out in her senior year. My parents bought her a new car at 16 (kept it in their name), but once she turned 18 and met an older lowlife boyfriend (who started her stripping in clubs, etc) that had a nicer car he let her drive, she just abandoned her car on the side of the freeway and walked away from it. My parents also received a tow notice several days later and were frantic, thinking she'd been abducted, etc...she was living with various friends by then, no one could track her down or locate her. It was about a week of hell for our family. Finally turns out she was living with the new boyfriend and just couldn't be bothered to get in touch.

A few months later, she announces they got married and are expecting a baby in 8 months. Her and the new hubby move 400 miles away. My parents are sick over this, but try to support her. 5 months later they get a call in the middle of the night that my sister has just given birth and is recovering in the hospital....thinking the baby was born 3 months premature, my parents drive like a bat out of hell during the middle of the night to get there, sure they're going to find a very ill or dying grandchild. But guess what? Doctor says no, baby is full term and just fine. My sister had lied about her due date just because she didn't want them to know she was pregnant before she got married. But didn't care ONE bit that her parents had the life scared out of them and that 6 hour drive was an just a nightmare for them.....she fit the mold of a sociopath to a "T". And the list of things like that just went on and on, and remained that way for about the next 10-15 years. I knew I couldn't trust one single word that ever came from out of her mouth.

But now? 20 some plus years later....she is the total opposite!!! Mature, successful, intelligent, responsible, trustworthy, a great mom to her 3 kids....somewhere/somehow along the lines she completely changed and all that sociopathic behavior stopped. So I really do scratch my head over what a true socipoath is, because I would have said my sister was classic textbook case back then. But totally not anymore. So I'm on the fence about the whole issue and what makes a sociopath...nature or nurture? In my sister's case I'd say probably nurture, because as her environment changed over time, so did she.

It's such a fascinating topic!

I read that there is no medication to help socipaths no cure so to speak but it is common for them to completely change in midlife ...

 

[passionflower]

wow! KC and CA???

 

[Crabcake23]

wow! KC and CA???

Exactly what I thought.