Casey & Family Psychological Profile #2

[miimaa]

I seem to attract these kind of people as romantic partners and I was married to one. Their behavior makes no sense because we expect them to think and feel rationally - like we do. They are not 100% bad otherwise you would never involve yourself with one. They usually have a lot of sexual chemistry. With my ex-husband he would tell me stories (excuses) which I tried to believe because heck, he was my husband and the father of my child. I didn't understand why he would sabotage our marrige or the happiness and well-being of our little boy. They are totally selfish and driven entirely by their needs and wants. There will usually be some kind of addiction (gambling, drugs or alcohol). They will lie to you to keep you happy and in the dark so they can continue along their path. They do not care if you are hurt, they do not care that they are irresponsible. They think they should be able to do whatever they want and you should understand that. When you get fed up enough to leave them you will be the bad one. They will be angry with YOU. They cannot see how their own behavior contributed to the break down of the relationship. It took me a long time (years) to figure out that it wasn't me that was a failure. My part was putting up with unfair treatment for as long as I did.

My son was 4 when I divorced him. My ex never visited, never called, never sent gifts. My son was just a little boy and was very hurt but I couldn't make his dad do anything. It amazed me that he turned his back on his son like that. He took money from his mother and sisters... he lives off other women... he is a compulsive gambler and will do anything to get money. He tried to get a credit card using my son's social security number. His second wife paid off $15,000 of credit card debt he had run up gambling. He has no remorse for any of this. In his mind we were all at fault for not letting him have what he wanted. One time he said to me "You don't want me to be happy" after I got angry with him for spending rent money at the race track.

 

[the duchess]

My first post:chicken:
This is interesting to me. I'm not familiar with SB except by name...I am a psychic reader in a very part time way.
I have seen descriptions (books by Dion Fortune) of "elemental" beings which line up pretty neatly with the characteristics of sociopathy; they just are not human. It's an interesting viewpoint. Beyond that, I would have to agree with the idea there are sociopaths that definitely belong in a "dark" catagory. And KC & SP would go in that one.
I'm writing a book proposal and trying to deal both with the psychological and otherworldly points of view of this type of person. Anyways, thanks for letting me ramble:heart:

 

[BetsyB]

I think there are more sociopaths among us than we would ever realize. We may kid ourselves and believe they are all way down on the social scale, but not so. If they can discipline themselves, they can be very successful. They can be like wolves in sheeps clothing. It certainly does explain some of the craziness and cruelty that goes on in this world.

This is quite true. Some can channel their energies very productively, at least superficially. They all are bankrupt when it comes to personal relationships.

Martha Stout, PhD's book The Sociopath Next Door gives interesting insight.

 

[Janis396]

Odldy enough, my younger sister was identical to Casey when she was in her teens and early 20's (back in the 80's). She lied about everything. Dropped out in her senior year. My parents bought her a new car at 16 (kept it in their name), but once she turned 18 and met an older lowlife boyfriend (who started her stripping in clubs, etc) that had a nicer car he let her drive, she just abandoned her car on the side of the freeway and walked away from it. My parents also received a tow notice several days later and were frantic, thinking she'd been abducted, etc...she was living with various friends by then, no one could track her down or locate her. It was about a week of hell for our family. Finally turns out she was living with the new boyfriend and just couldn't be bothered to get in touch.

A few months later, she announces they got married and are expecting a baby in 8 months. Her and the new hubby move 400 miles away. My parents are sick over this, but try to support her. 5 months later they get a call in the middle of the night that my sister has just given birth and is recovering in the hospital....thinking the baby was born 3 months premature, my parents drive like a bat out of hell during the middle of the night to get there, sure they're going to find a very ill or dying grandchild. But guess what? Doctor says no, baby is full term and just fine. My sister had lied about her due date just because she didn't want them to know she was pregnant before she got married. But didn't care ONE bit that her parents had the life scared out of them and that 6 hour drive was an just a nightmare for them.....she fit the mold of a sociopath to a "T". And the list of things like that just went on and on, and remained that way for about the next 10-15 years. I knew I couldn't trust one single word that ever came from out of her mouth.

But now? 20 some plus years later....she is the total opposite!!! Mature, successful, intelligent, responsible, trustworthy, a great mom to her 3 kids....somewhere/somehow along the lines she completely changed and all that sociopathic behavior stopped. So I really do scratch my head over what a true socipoath is, because I would have said my sister was classic textbook case back then. But totally not anymore. So I'm on the fence about the whole issue and what makes a sociopath...nature or nurture? In my sister's case I'd say probably nurture, because as her environment changed over time, so did she.

It's such a fascinating topic!

 

[PhoneBoothBandit]

I don't believe in Sylvia Browne and I don't believe in her explanation of sociopathy associated with the 'Dark Side'. Much better, factual and concise explanations in Wikipedia! Her mention of 'God' sealed the deal for me too

 

[GreenEyes727]

My first post:chicken:
This is interesting to me. I'm not familiar with SB except by name...I am a psychic reader in a very part time way.
I have seen descriptions (books by Dion Fortune) of "elemental" beings which line up pretty neatly with the characteristics of sociopathy; they just are not human. It's an interesting viewpoint. Beyond that, I would have to agree with the idea there are sociopaths that definitely belong in a "dark" catagory. And KC & SP would go in that one.
I'm writing a book proposal and trying to deal both with the psychological and otherworldly points of view of this type of person. Anyways, thanks for letting me ramble:heart:

Welcome! Keep us posted on your book! You might want to check out the different dream, vision and psychic threads on this forum for Caylee, as well as other forums on Websleuths. We have come up with some seemingly substantial stuff by sharing our dreams, visions, and even inkblots (you can find the inkblots thread in the parking lot since they were deemed to be taking over the other threads).

 

[GreenEyes727]

Odldy enough, my younger sister was identical to Casey when she was in her teens and early 20's (back in the 80's). She lied about everything. My parents bought her a new car at 16 (kept it in their name), but once she turned 18 and met an older lowlife boyfriend (who started her stripping in clubs, etc) that had a nicer car he let her drive, she just abandoned her car on the side of the freeway and walked away from it. My parents also received a tow notice several days later and were frantic, thinking she'd been abducted, etc...she was living with various friends by then, no one could track her down or locate her. It was about a week of hell for our family. Finally turns out she was living with the new boyfriend and just couldn't be bothered to get in touch.

A few months later, she announces they got married and are expecting a baby in 8 months. Her and the new hubby move 400 miles away. My parents are sick over this, but try to support her. 5 months later they get a call in the middle of the night that my sister has just given birth and is recovering in the hospital....thinking the baby was born 3 months premature, my parents drive like a bat out of hell during the middle of the night to get there, sure they're going to find a very ill or dying grandchild. But guess what? Doctor says no, baby is full term and just fine. My sister had lied about her due date just because she didn't want them to know she was pregnant before she got married. But didn't care ONE bit that her parents had the life scared out of them and that 6 hour drive was an just a nightmare for them.....she fit the mold of a sociopath to a "T". And the list of things like that just went on and on, and remained that way for about the next 15 years. I knew I couldn't trust one single word that ever came from out of her mouth.

But now? 20 some years later....she is the total opposite!!! Mature, successful, intelligent, responsible, trustworthy, a great mom to her 3 kids....somewhere/somehow along the lines she completely changed and all that sociopathic behavior stopped. So I really do scratch my head over what a true socipoath is, because I would have said my sister was classic textbook case back then. But totally not anymore. So I'm on the fence about the whole issue and what makes a sociopath...nature or nurture? In my sister's case I'd say probably nurture, because as her environment changed over time, so did she.

It's such a fascinating topic!

Wow, what a story! I wonder what changed in her. Maybe she had some kind of imbalance and wasn't sociopathic but I agree with you and am scratching my own head about your story. Wouldn't that be wonderful if there was hope for these people who have broken so many hearts in their path and wouldn't it be wonderful if KC had a revelation and decided to come clean with what happened to Caylee?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think the main problem here in this thread is people are confusing Narcissism, Borderline, Addiction and plain ol' poor choices, criminal behaviors and selfishness with Sociopathy. There is a difference between people who have never been called out on their own bullsh!t and forced to change or lose the person or people they claim to love, people who create chaos everywhere they go and being a Sociopath. People who are impulsive and have no sense of self-actualization and a self-defeating, passive-aggressive way of walking through life, yeah, they have major issues and need help but a Sociopath? A Borderline perhaps, a Narcissist, an addict, a selfish pr!ck even but a Sociopath? No!

Sociopathy goes deeper than that, much deeper. I myself don't think Casey is even a "Sociopath".

Anyway- this is all just my opinion (and as I have said before, I'm certainly no shrink LOL) so take it for what it's worth to ya.

 

[Bev]

OneLostGirl, well written post - I had to laugh at the "selfish prick" comment because that is what I think most people are describing.

 

[karenmamo]

...a little humor here....
someone interviewed Leonard today and asked him about Casey.
His answer: She is an ugly-minded little person.
Guess that is LP's analysis of her profile.
LOL

 

[OneLostGrl]

Wow, what a story! I wonder what changed in her. Maybe she had some kind of imbalance and wasn't sociopathic but I agree with you and am scratching my own head about your story. Wouldn't that be wonderful if there was hope for these people who have broken so many hearts in their path and wouldn't it be wonderful if KC had a revelation and decided to come clean with what happened to Caylee?

IMO She wasn't a Sociopath. She was a confused little girl in a womans body wanting to live life on her terms (kinda sounds like the boyfriend might have also introduced her to drugs as well?!). The only way she thought she could live with herself was by blowing her parents off because she knew how they would feel about how she was living, the choices she was making and she loved them so she couldn't sit and look at the pain she was causing them. So she took the easy way out, she ran away.. she got it all out of her system (perhaps some Borderline or Bipolar issues, toss in a bit of addiction maybe) and grew up, back to the good, moral, decent person she was running from for all those years, the person her parents had created.

Some people just get a little lost in life

Janis396, feel free to smack me across the head if I'm wrong and totally out in left field here, it's just the feel I got from your story.

 

[OneLostGrl]

...a little humor here....
someone interviewed Leonard today and asked him about Casey.
His answer: She is an ugly-minded little person.
Guess that is LP's analysis of her profile.
LOL

LOL. he's right on too. She really is... she needs to be removed from society.

 

[OneLostGrl]

OneLostGirl, well written post - I had to laugh at the "selfish prick" comment because that is what I think most people are describing.

I agree!

 

[minazoe]

This morning, for some reason I keep thinking of how sick the idea is that Casey was driving around with the rotting body of her daughter in the back of the car. This is really deep mental illness, to me.. I mean it is devoid of practical reason is it not? The smell is unbearable, all she has to do is dump the body, but she doesn't, she keeps her in the trunk in the Florida heat.

what if she had been pulled over?

 

[OneLostGrl]

This morning, for some reason I keep thinking of how sick the idea is that Casey was driving around with the rotting body of her daughter in the back of the car. This is really deep mental illness, to me.. I mean it is devoid of practical reason is it not? The smell is unbearable, all she has to do is dump the body, but she doesn't, she keeps her in the trunk in the Florida heat.

what if she had been pulled over?

It is not mental illness, it is evil please do not confuse the two. I am mentally ill, without my many medications, profoundly and certifiably so. And I would never dream of acting in such a manner.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I think the main problem here in this thread is people are confusing Narcissism, Borderline, Addiction and plain ol' poor choices, criminal behaviors and selfishness with Sociopathy. There is a difference between people who have never been called out on their own bullsh!t and forced to change or lose the person or people they claim to love, people who create chaos everywhere they go and being a Sociopath. People who are impulsive and have no sense of self-actualization and a self-defeating, passive-aggressive way of walking through life, yeah, they have major issues and need help but a Sociopath? A Borderline perhaps, a Narcissist, an addict, a selfish pr!ck even but a Sociopath? No!

Sociopathy goes deeper than that, much deeper. I myself don't think Casey is even a "Sociopath".

Anyway- this is all just my opinion (and as I have said before, I'm certainly no shrink LOL) so take it for what it's worth to ya.

So True OLG. Sociopaths are generally considered incurable. It's not something you just "grow out of". And I know a few people myself who fudged due dates on their pregancies to avoid being judged. They're not sociopaths.

Now, take my ex. I could give many examples, but just one...at one time, a dv was filed against him for injuring one of his children, though thankfully not a serious injury. When the cops came to investigate he didn't deny the injury happened, just said he wasn't the cause. When the court date came, he took his then 12 YO daughter out of school, brought her down to the courthouse, and told her that she had to testify that she was the one who did it. She was going to do it too - she was less scared of what the court would do to her if she admitted to commiting the crime than of what he would do to her if she didn't lie for him. Luckily, the courts would have none of it and ordered him into anger management. No remorse about the injured child. No remorse about what he put his daughter through. Only concerned with the consequences to himself. Other people's feelings just don't register with him.....it's sad because it's a ripple affect that touches the lives of everyone close to the ill person. I think you can certainly see that in the KC case too...One illness, many victims...

 

[Janis396]

IMO She wasn't a Sociopath. She was a confused little girl in a womans body wanting to live life on her terms (kinda sounds like the boyfriend might have also introduced her to drugs as well?!). The only way she thought she could live with herself was by blowing her parents off because she knew how they would feel about how she was living, the choices she was making and she loved them so she couldn't sit and look at the pain she was causing them. So she took the easy way out, she ran away.. she got it all out of her system (perhaps some Borderline or Bipolar issues, toss in a bit of addiction maybe) and grew up, back to the good, moral, decent person she was running from for all those years, the person her parents had created.

Some people just get a little lost in life

Janis396, feel free to smack me across the head if I'm wrong and totally out in left field here, it's just the feel I got from your story.

You could be right, OLG. It's just that some of the things she did were almost identical to the things Casey's done (hiding a pregnancy, abandoning a car, disappearing, lying about everything, neglecting her children when they were small, etc etc), and I'd pretty much come to think that Casey is a sociopath. We never saw any indication of drug use with my sister, but lots of drinking and minor scrapes with the law after she left home. This out of control behavior lasted into her 30's, which seems like she would have gotten the rebellion against our parents out of her system long before then. And my parents were not enablers, it was a fairly strict household we were brought up in, there were definite consequences if we f'd up.

Like I said, I'm speculating about what it was with my sister, it sure looked like sociopathic behavior. But with her being the total opposite now, it's probably a good indication she really wasn't.

Fascinating stuff to me though!

 

[technicalconfusion]

But now? 20 some plus years later....she is the total opposite!!! Mature, successful, intelligent, responsible, trustworthy, a great mom to her 3 kids....somewhere/somehow along the lines she completely changed and all that sociopathic behavior stopped. So I really do scratch my head over what a true socipoath is, because I would have said my sister was classic textbook case back then. But totally not anymore. So I'm on the fence about the whole issue and what makes a sociopath...nature or nurture? In my sister's case I'd say probably nurture, because as her environment changed over time, so did she.

It's such a fascinating topic!

Maybe it's just immaturity? She grew up. I have an aunt (she's almost 80 now) that pulled this kind of thing when she was young. Got married, had 3 kids, ran out on him to California. My mother tracked her down and she eventually came home. She changed, and grew up.

I see alot of the dynamic between CA and KC in my own relationship with my mother. Only it happened when I was a teenager, I wasn't pregnant, and I had a great support system in friends and relatives who all thought my mom was insane (I don't think she was insane, but all of my friends were normal.) When I was 16, I bounced around, living in friends and relatives houses, I worked and went to school. Once I graduated I got my own place.

We were seriously dysfunctional. I worked 2 and 3 jobs so I could maintain my
own place. I'm also an alcoholic, so I had to pay for my drinking and pot habit. I quit drinking in 1989. After I quit drinking, my mom for the longest time would purposely push my buttons trying to get me to drink again so she could say I told you so.

But the point of this is this: I was able to break away from my control freak mom. I mean, she had a fit the first time I bought my own pair of glasses when I was in my 20's. I've learned to not let her treat me like dirt, and that she doesn't have control over my life. Bugs her no end, too, lol.

 

[Brini]

This morning, for some reason I keep thinking of how sick the idea is that Casey was driving around with the rotting body of her daughter in the back of the car. This is really deep mental illness, to me.. I mean it is devoid of practical reason is it not? The smell is unbearable, all she has to do is dump the body, but she doesn't, she keeps her in the trunk in the Florida heat.

what if she had been pulled over?

It's not a mental illness, exactly. It's a total deficiency of the normal, human capacity to care.

 

[Brini]

I know that CA told one of KC's friends that KC was a sociopath, but I was wondering, does anyone know if this (KC's sociopath status) was just CA's speculation, or if she had actually been diagnosed as one by a professional? I was just reading some information about sociopaths, and from what we know about her, it sure sounds like she is one, but I was just wondering if she had officially been diagnosed as such, and if so, what made someone decide to evaluate her and label her as such? Did she do something else before that made them question her behavioral tendencies?

Most of the Net and TV shrink talking heads call her a sociopath.

The constant lying and stealing, even from her incapacitated grandfather, could certainly be an indication.