Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[eddeva]

I don't know.. at this point I think Cindy is more protecting her own sanity than anything else.

between me and thee - i think that ship has sailed

 

[yolorado]

Ok, so is it Cindy's theory that Caylee crawled into a bag with duct tape, somehow taped it shut, and hopped into the swamp?

Yo, Cindy, if Casey didn't double bag Caylee and throw her away, she MUST know who did. They had access to her car, and probably items from your household. So, why on earth wouldn't Casey say who, exactly, in non-code English? Wouldn't she want this person caught? Or are you saying that Casey didn't harm Caylee because there was an accident? If that's the case, (1) then why isn't Casey saying it was an accident; and (2) why did Casey throw Caylee away in the swamp?

 

[Searchfortruth]

I so enjoy reading all the posts in this thread, fascinating. I wish I understood more though. I especially would like to comprehend the dynamic between Cindy and Casey and how that led to Casey's behavior recently. I guess, as humans, we all want to know why, I know I do.

 

[Devon]

I think what's interesting is her choice of words, "she never HURT Caylee". Makes me think she knows or was told it was an accident & will be proven?? That was my initial feeling.

Also wondering, if now that KC is in the driver's seat, ( not Cindy) with JB bowing to her for his newfound glory, that she is feeling her own power, for the first time in her life, & realizes she does not need or want Cindy speaking for her

Very valid observations, IMO. I also took note of what she actually said. She did not say KC was not involved in Caylee's death, she said she didn't hurt her. It's certainly an interesting comment, especially since the imaginary 'nanny' got no mention this time!

You may also be right about KC feeling that she has found her own power and that she neither wants nor needs CA's previous iron grip on her.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Excuse me for interjecting here, but I can't help myself. The posts on this thread are thoughtfully quite dense so I haven't read everything.

I'd like to point out that the nature-nurture issue is nowhere near resolved. We largely have theories, and little proof.

I believe the perp to be a psychopath. She exhibits psychopathic traits, attitude and anti-social behaviours. If this is true about her, from all the literature I've studied there is a likelihood that psychopathy is hard-wired.

Robert Hare, a leading expert on psychopathy, has conducted EEG studies on adult ASPDs comparing their brain waves to that of non-conduct- disordered adolescents and found a similarity in brain patterns. This indicates to Hare that it is possible that an ASPD brain simply never fully matured.

There have also been twin studies that show that there can be a genetic predisposition to psychopathy.

The point I'm making is that the nature-nurture debate is by no means over.

But your point about the effects of narcissism is well-taken, though I am not sure that it's an inevitability that narcissists produce narcissists. I've puzzled over CA since the beginning. At first I thought she was suffering from Stockholm syndrome, a kind of weird take on loving your captor (the perp), or exhibiting behaviours of a cult member. Over time it became clear to me that CA was exhibiting narcissistic traits. Two behaviours come to mind: the way she blames everyone, and the way she brings the focus on herself, her feelings, how it's all affecting her.

There's this great British TV drama called "Wire in the Blood". In one episode the murderer of a child turned out to the mother who had Munchausen's. The psychologist figured out she was the killer because when she was pleading for her child's safe return, she kept talking about how it affected her, how she was suffering, etc.

I think that the perp is a hard-wired psychopath (nature). And I'm also thinking that CA's narcissism affected the perp's development in influencing and enabling and encouraging her narcissistic tendencies until they were massively full blown (nurture) to the point of murder. Mere pampering is not enough to create a murderer, IMO. I'm thinking that perhaps the motive for murder was the injury to the perp's narcissistic self. Without her mother's enabling, perhaps the perp would have been a different kind of psychopath. With it, it was a recipe for murder somewhere down the line, especially if it involved their enmeshment.

As an aside, their relationship is so enmeshed and so glaringly sick, I can't find words for it. It's like they're a single dynamic entity and no one else exists for them. I keep thinking folies a deux even though it can't be.

That's the point we were trying to make..


ETA- Growing up in a personality disordered home is very much like "Stockholm syndrome", IMO. Ya do what ya have to do to survive

 

[OneLostGrl]

But if that dead body was her granddaughter would she blame the granddaughter?

hmm.. well, though I can't say for sure but IMO I can't see her blaming either of them.

 

[kiki the parrot]

:woohoo:
Kiki,
I'd love to hear YOUR evaluation of NG. Just for laughs, What are your thoughts?

It's quite simple... She was given the wrong last name (switched at birth), and it's had a devastatingly traumatic effect upon her.



On a short more serious note IMO when we've been victimized (which she was years ago when fiance was murdered) we're faced w two options: we can either be broken by trusting in ultimate judgment and some higher form of justice (therefore searching our hearts, for grace to release that person so we can free ourselves from unforgiveness) OR... we become to some degree embittered. Of course, whatever any of us focuses and dwells upon night and day (evil, injustice etc) gets magnified, and it doesn't seem to hurt her career or her ratings either! JMTC

:twocents:

But back to A's... if all CA meant in her email was that she doesn't believe KC capable of intentionally hurting Caylee or that there was malice involved in Caylee's death, it could be construed as CA having belief or possible knowledge of a negligence scenario yet not feeling at liberty to state anything which might jeopardize her daughter's defense. But to continue insisting inwardly at this stage that her daughter had no involvement whatsoever or go on alluding even publically to a "real killer" would be stuck in major, serious denial. There could also very well be feelings of guilt shared by CA for feeling she failed to protect Caylee or if she suspects any negligence circumstance--forseeable or no. But either she is so image conscious that she's continuing to be deceptive while knowing the truth; or her world, and warped way of thinking, are so impenetrable that she's built up massive resistance to accepting the truth, one reluctant painstaking step at a time. I have to say if it were me (and God forbid my own 20 year-old daughter and two year-old granddaughter) in her shoes, I can't see accepting the scenario we have here very easily either. But I think it boils down, once more, to forgiveness. She would need to do the forgiveness work if she faces reality in order to assist KC in doing the same (which for me would require this of me, and sooner rather than later). But IMO despite her protests and public front, CA's hiding behind a mask of denial is likely in order to avoid doing that work. JMHUO

 

[Capri]

This statement-? "as for my daughter, she never hurt Caylee and that will be proven. She loved her deeply"

I guess it depends on if Cindy knows what happened, if Casey told her anything... if Cindy is involved in a cover-up.

IMO If Cindy isn't involved and knows nothing I think Casey probably just feels she is pulling one over on her mom. Probably feeling smug, ya know?

yes, that's the statement I meant. I can see KC feeling smug if she truly believes CA means what she says.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think what's interesting is her choice of words, "she never HURT Caylee". Makes me think she knows or was told it was an accident & will be proven?? That was my initial feeling.

Also wondering, if now that KC is in the driver's seat, ( not Cindy) with JB bowing to her for his newfound glory, that she is feeling her own power, for the first time in her life, & realizes she does not need or want Cindy speaking for her

I can't see Cindy's "control" over Casey fading that quickly.. it took a long time for Casey to get the way she is I think she will always want her mothers approval. The emotions involved are very conflicting because with the degree of hate/love involved and it being her mother. Everyone wants their mother to love them, ya know?

 

[Capri]

I think what's interesting is her choice of words, "she never HURT Caylee". Makes me think she knows or was told it was an accident & will be proven?? That was my initial feeling.

Also wondering, if now that KC is in the driver's seat, ( not Cindy) with JB bowing to her for his newfound glory, that she is feeling her own power, for the first time in her life, & realizes she does not need or want Cindy speaking for her

Ok, that's what I was thinking. KC's not allowing GA & CA to visit (asserting her power to punish them), JB is her support person for the present time, she's not under CA's thumb, for the first time in her life....(even if it is in jail), and now CA's trying to speak for her. I'd be ticked off if I was KC.

 

[maryaok]

Curious to take this in another direction with people who seem knowledgeable. Compare Casey to Susan Smith. Similairities v. differences? Anyone?

 

[Capri]

I can't see Cindy's "control" over Casey fading that quickly.. it took a long time for Casey to get the way she is I think she will always want her mothers approval. The emotions involved are very conflicting because with the degree of hate/love involved and it being her mother. Everyone wants their mother to love them, ya know?

I understand the wanting of CA's approval, and wanting her love. I think I just overestimated the effect of time away from CA. It really hasn't been that long, when she's been under her thumb for the past 22 years.

 

[reeseeva]

I can't see Cindy's "control" over Casey fading that quickly.. it took a long time for Casey to get the way she is I think she will always want her mothers approval. The emotions involved are very conflicting because with the degree of hate/love involved and it being her mother. Everyone wants their mother to love them, ya know?

TRUE! with regards to approval & love.

Thinking about the length of time they have been separated, & with KC having some professional counseling/evaluations in jail, I would venture to guess she may be discovering her "self" in the process. This was very evident to me upon seeing her for the first time last week. Even the tone of her voice was different. Also, she may have some revalations of her relationship with her mother, being in a solitary enviroment, unaffected by the constant, incessant chattering & immobilizing, mindbending dictatorship of that woman. :bangsorry got carried away)

 

[OneLostGrl]

Curious to take this in another direction with people who seem knowledgeable. Compare Casey to Susan Smith. Similairities v. differences? Anyone?

I think there is a thread here comparing the two somewhere

 

[Brini]

I don't know.. at this point I think Cindy is more protecting her own sanity than anything else. She really is a very sick woman.. IMO

Yeah, she looks like she is disintegrating.

 

[Brini]

Excuse me for interjecting here, but I can't help myself. The posts on this thread are thoughtfully quite dense so I haven't read everything.

I'd like to point out that the nature-nurture issue is nowhere near resolved. We largely have theories, and little proof.

I believe the perp to be a psychopath. She exhibits psychopathic traits, attitude and anti-social behaviours. If this is true about her, from all the literature I've studied there is a likelihood that psychopathy is hard-wired.

Robert Hare, a leading expert on psychopathy, has conducted EEG studies on adult ASPDs comparing their brain waves to that of non-conduct- disordered adolescents and found a similarity in brain patterns. This indicates to Hare that it is possible that an ASPD brain simply never fully matured.

There have also been twin studies that show that there can be a genetic predisposition to psychopathy.

The point I'm making is that the nature-nurture debate is by no means over.

But your point about the effects of narcissism is well-taken, though I am not sure that it's an inevitability that narcissists produce narcissists. I've puzzled over CA since the beginning. At first I thought she was suffering from Stockholm syndrome, a kind of weird take on loving your captor (the perp), or exhibiting behaviours of a cult member. Over time it became clear to me that CA was exhibiting narcissistic traits. Two behaviours come to mind: the way she blames everyone, and the way she brings the focus on herself, her feelings, how it's all affecting her.

There's this great British TV drama called "Wire in the Blood". In one episode the murderer of a child turned out to the mother who had Munchausen's. The psychologist figured out she was the killer because when she was pleading for her child's safe return, she kept talking about how it affected her, how she was suffering, etc.

I think that the perp is a hard-wired psychopath (nature). And I'm also thinking that CA's narcissism affected the perp's development in influencing and enabling and encouraging her narcissistic tendencies until they were massively full blown (nurture) to the point of murder. Mere pampering is not enough to create a murderer, IMO. I'm thinking that perhaps the motive for murder was the injury to the perp's narcissistic self. Without her mother's enabling, perhaps the perp would have been a different kind of psychopath. With it, it was a recipe for murder somewhere down the line, especially if it involved their enmeshment.

As an aside, their relationship is so enmeshed and so glaringly sick, I can't find words for it. It's like they're a single dynamic entity and no one else exists for them. I keep thinking folies a deux even though it can't be.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Dang, folks! This is one of the finest debates on this w/s, ever!:blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

between me and thee - i think that ship has sailed

You're prolly right!

 

[Brini]

That's the point we were trying to make..


ETA- Growing up in a personality disordered home is very much like "Stockholm syndrome", IMO. Ya do what ya have to do to survive

Yep-! We both have first-hand experience. :-(

 

[indicat]

Cindy aggravates me so. The way she's always shoving her husband to the back of her, this ridiculous denial of her daughter's involvement. The ridiculous discussions she has with Casey in JAIL. God that's not the way my mother ever talked to me. She's just infuriating.

This is a little OT but when Susan Smith killed her kids, I could have pushed the needle in her myself. But in a way, I give Casey a little bit more of a break, becuase it must have been so frustrating for her to grow up in this family. Life in prison is more app for Casey where SS, I think should have got death penalty. I never bought that crap about molestation. Never. IMO.

Exept when I read up on the Susan Smith case I could have swore I remember the step dad admitted it??

 

[Tammie63]

it makes me think she's not only protecting casey, she's sucking up to her. childish, i know, but so is cindy.

The sucking up part I get and at this time believe until CA is able to get control over how things are handled with Caylee as far as funeral and such she will continue to fed KC her devotion. I will be interested in seeing how this plays out once Caylee is put to rest if CA continues to support KC. Right now I believe she is playing kiss *advertiser censored** with KC until the remains are taken care of. She will probably prove me wrong tho.