eddeva
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I don't know.. at this point I think Cindy is more protecting her own sanity than anything else.
between me and thee - i think that ship has sailed
I don't know.. at this point I think Cindy is more protecting her own sanity than anything else.
I think what's interesting is her choice of words, "she never HURT Caylee". Makes me think she knows or was told it was an accident & will be proven?? That was my initial feeling.
Also wondering, if now that KC is in the driver's seat, ( not Cindy) with JB bowing to her for his newfound glory, that she is feeling her own power, for the first time in her life, & realizes she does not need or want Cindy speaking for her
Excuse me for interjecting here, but I can't help myself. The posts on this thread are thoughtfully quite dense so I haven't read everything.
I'd like to point out that the nature-nurture issue is nowhere near resolved. We largely have theories, and little proof.
I believe the perp to be a psychopath. She exhibits psychopathic traits, attitude and anti-social behaviours. If this is true about her, from all the literature I've studied there is a likelihood that psychopathy is hard-wired.
Robert Hare, a leading expert on psychopathy, has conducted EEG studies on adult ASPDs comparing their brain waves to that of non-conduct- disordered adolescents and found a similarity in brain patterns. This indicates to Hare that it is possible that an ASPD brain simply never fully matured.
There have also been twin studies that show that there can be a genetic predisposition to psychopathy.
The point I'm making is that the nature-nurture debate is by no means over.
But your point about the effects of narcissism is well-taken, though I am not sure that it's an inevitability that narcissists produce narcissists. I've puzzled over CA since the beginning. At first I thought she was suffering from Stockholm syndrome, a kind of weird take on loving your captor (the perp), or exhibiting behaviours of a cult member. Over time it became clear to me that CA was exhibiting narcissistic traits. Two behaviours come to mind: the way she blames everyone, and the way she brings the focus on herself, her feelings, how it's all affecting her.
There's this great British TV drama called "Wire in the Blood". In one episode the murderer of a child turned out to the mother who had Munchausen's. The psychologist figured out she was the killer because when she was pleading for her child's safe return, she kept talking about how it affected her, how she was suffering, etc.
I think that the perp is a hard-wired psychopath (nature). And I'm also thinking that CA's narcissism affected the perp's development in influencing and enabling and encouraging her narcissistic tendencies until they were massively full blown (nurture) to the point of murder. Mere pampering is not enough to create a murderer, IMO. I'm thinking that perhaps the motive for murder was the injury to the perp's narcissistic self. Without her mother's enabling, perhaps the perp would have been a different kind of psychopath. With it, it was a recipe for murder somewhere down the line, especially if it involved their enmeshment.
As an aside, their relationship is so enmeshed and so glaringly sick, I can't find words for it. It's like they're a single dynamic entity and no one else exists for them. I keep thinking folies a deux even though it can't be.
But if that dead body was her granddaughter would she blame the granddaughter?
:woohoo:
Kiki,
I'd love to hear YOUR evaluation of NG. Just for laughs, What are your thoughts?
This statement-? "as for my daughter, she never hurt Caylee and that will be proven. She loved her deeply"
I guess it depends on if Cindy knows what happened, if Casey told her anything... if Cindy is involved in a cover-up.
IMO If Cindy isn't involved and knows nothing I think Casey probably just feels she is pulling one over on her mom. Probably feeling smug, ya know?
I think what's interesting is her choice of words, "she never HURT Caylee". Makes me think she knows or was told it was an accident & will be proven?? That was my initial feeling.
Also wondering, if now that KC is in the driver's seat, ( not Cindy) with JB bowing to her for his newfound glory, that she is feeling her own power, for the first time in her life, & realizes she does not need or want Cindy speaking for her
I think what's interesting is her choice of words, "she never HURT Caylee". Makes me think she knows or was told it was an accident & will be proven?? That was my initial feeling.
Also wondering, if now that KC is in the driver's seat, ( not Cindy) with JB bowing to her for his newfound glory, that she is feeling her own power, for the first time in her life, & realizes she does not need or want Cindy speaking for her
I can't see Cindy's "control" over Casey fading that quickly.. it took a long time for Casey to get the way she is I think she will always want her mothers approval. The emotions involved are very conflicting because with the degree of hate/love involved and it being her mother. Everyone wants their mother to love them, ya know?
TRUE! with regards to approval & love.I can't see Cindy's "control" over Casey fading that quickly.. it took a long time for Casey to get the way she is I think she will always want her mothers approval. The emotions involved are very conflicting because with the degree of hate/love involved and it being her mother. Everyone wants their mother to love them, ya know?
Curious to take this in another direction with people who seem knowledgeable. Compare Casey to Susan Smith. Similairities v. differences? Anyone?
I don't know.. at this point I think Cindy is more protecting her own sanity than anything else. She really is a very sick woman.. IMO
Excuse me for interjecting here, but I can't help myself. The posts on this thread are thoughtfully quite dense so I haven't read everything.
I'd like to point out that the nature-nurture issue is nowhere near resolved. We largely have theories, and little proof.
I believe the perp to be a psychopath. She exhibits psychopathic traits, attitude and anti-social behaviours. If this is true about her, from all the literature I've studied there is a likelihood that psychopathy is hard-wired.
Robert Hare, a leading expert on psychopathy, has conducted EEG studies on adult ASPDs comparing their brain waves to that of non-conduct- disordered adolescents and found a similarity in brain patterns. This indicates to Hare that it is possible that an ASPD brain simply never fully matured.
There have also been twin studies that show that there can be a genetic predisposition to psychopathy.
The point I'm making is that the nature-nurture debate is by no means over.
But your point about the effects of narcissism is well-taken, though I am not sure that it's an inevitability that narcissists produce narcissists. I've puzzled over CA since the beginning. At first I thought she was suffering from Stockholm syndrome, a kind of weird take on loving your captor (the perp), or exhibiting behaviours of a cult member. Over time it became clear to me that CA was exhibiting narcissistic traits. Two behaviours come to mind: the way she blames everyone, and the way she brings the focus on herself, her feelings, how it's all affecting her.
There's this great British TV drama called "Wire in the Blood". In one episode the murderer of a child turned out to the mother who had Munchausen's. The psychologist figured out she was the killer because when she was pleading for her child's safe return, she kept talking about how it affected her, how she was suffering, etc.
I think that the perp is a hard-wired psychopath (nature). And I'm also thinking that CA's narcissism affected the perp's development in influencing and enabling and encouraging her narcissistic tendencies until they were massively full blown (nurture) to the point of murder. Mere pampering is not enough to create a murderer, IMO. I'm thinking that perhaps the motive for murder was the injury to the perp's narcissistic self. Without her mother's enabling, perhaps the perp would have been a different kind of psychopath. With it, it was a recipe for murder somewhere down the line, especially if it involved their enmeshment.
As an aside, their relationship is so enmeshed and so glaringly sick, I can't find words for it. It's like they're a single dynamic entity and no one else exists for them. I keep thinking folies a deux even though it can't be.
between me and thee - i think that ship has sailed
That's the point we were trying to make..
ETA- Growing up in a personality disordered home is very much like "Stockholm syndrome", IMO. Ya do what ya have to do to survive
Cindy aggravates me so. The way she's always shoving her husband to the back of her, this ridiculous denial of her daughter's involvement. The ridiculous discussions she has with Casey in JAIL. God that's not the way my mother ever talked to me. She's just infuriating.
This is a little OT but when Susan Smith killed her kids, I could have pushed the needle in her myself. But in a way, I give Casey a little bit more of a break, becuase it must have been so frustrating for her to grow up in this family. Life in prison is more app for Casey where SS, I think should have got death penalty. I never bought that crap about molestation. Never. IMO.
The sucking up part I get and at this time believe until CA is able to get control over how things are handled with Caylee as far as funeral and such she will continue to fed KC her devotion. I will be interested in seeing how this plays out once Caylee is put to rest if CA continues to support KC. Right now I believe she is playing kiss *advertiser censored** with KC until the remains are taken care of. She will probably prove me wrong tho.it makes me think she's not only protecting casey, she's sucking up to her. childish, i know, but so is cindy.