Casey & Family Psychological Profile #7

[EchointheDark]

We don't even need a developmental history.. it's the same ol' story. A personality disordered "insert mothers name" and a "insert fathers name" too weak & beaten down by (more likely than not, his OWN personality disordered mother and then the woman he married to take his mommy's place. OR he was smart enough to leave her a$$ but was too self centered to worry about what she'd do to the children and just moved on with his life) his wife to do a f^c#in' thing about it. So the children live their lives feeling lonely, unloved & worthless. They never know what to expect from the mother ( for example- is she going to love me today or is it going to be my fault the car broke down?... is she going to make dinner today or is she going to scream and yell about how she's the only person who does anything around here and if we want to eat feed our own damn selves!) so there is constant fear.

They grow up having their feelings.. their emotions invalidated & belittled. Their childhood, their lives are never about them, it's always about the mother and what she wants and what she expects. She berates her "loved ones" in private but equates them to G0d Himself in public. She is chaotic (draaamaaa), she lies, blame shifts, compliments one day the same thing she ridicules the next, she pits the children against one another, sometimes just for fun she'll pit the father and children against one another (of course, leaving no proof of this). Then she sits back and watches the show.. pointing fingers and blaming and ridiculing the entire time.

I know some of the story changes depending on the people involved but the behaviors are the same.

Anyway, I'm sure you don't need me to school you on the "ism's" of personality disorders :crazy:. My own word salad here (LOL) was just to say that IMO the "developmental history" is that these are children who are hostages of a parent with untreated personality disorders. They can't leave, they can't choose. So they learn to cope as best they can.

Are you my sister?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Are you my sister?

LOL :blowkiss:

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

I hear ya all about "not giving themselves up", mothers...



If you are a good mom you hear an opinion like mine and you say: I do give so much to my children and if I gave more there would be nothing for me-you are right and I agree.:clap:

I had a bad mother. My world is colored by the idea that a mother can be one of the most evil people you could meet. Every woman in my family is like someone in the Anthony family. I have been trying to figure out what I think a "good" mom is and what I think a "good" mom does.

She would say: "I was not put on this earth to do your bidding. I'm not giving up MY life for you. What you think or feel does not matter. I brought you into this world and I can take you out. Who else would take care of you? You are lucky I care or you would have no one and nowhere to go. Your father and I are the only people who will ever love you. You will ruin my funeral. I wish I never had you. Children are to be seen and not heard. As long as you live in my house you do not have an opinion, you do not have a say, you will do things my way or hit the road. I feed you, clothe you, and put a roof over your head and you do nothing."

My mother was my bully: she hit, smacked, spanked, pulled hair, threw things, spit on you and kick you in the butt...literally kick you in the butt with her foot as you were walking away.

There was a time in my life where I could have taken a different road, the road that led from my mother...my unbelievable mistrust of women and mothers comes from my mother-sorry all:boohoo:

A woman in england was put on trial because she helped to cover that her son had killed another male. I do think that parents are responsible for how their children turn out. I have heard stories of "terrible" children and maybe they exist? My mother believed in the "bad seed" she thought some children were born bad(and I was one of them). In my experience it is the mother that has the issues and not the child, if a mother speaks poorly of her children-then she is a poor mother-imo.

I admit I use this case to figure out stuff from my own childhood. Seeing Cindy who acts like my mom does "in public" and then I see her get mad and that is just like my mom. Then my sister acts like Casey...so does my cousin who is the daughter to my mothers sister. I have this whole "matriarchal" issue going on in my family. My sister even had an abortion(maybe several)to "spite" my mom.

My mom totally believes in spite: When I was three and she gave me her string of pearls and I broke them "You did that to spite me!" She always thought you were spiting her. She still does...

Thanks WS


...jmo...

 

[songline]

Hello WS

I hear ya all about "not giving themselves up", mothers...

If you are a good mom you hear an opinion like mine and you say: I do give so much to my children and if I gave more there would be nothing for me-you are right and I agree.:clap:

I had a bad mother. My world is colored by the idea that a mother can be one of the most evil people you could meet. Every woman in my family is like someone in the Anthony family. I have been trying to figure out what I think a "good" mom is and what I think a "good" mom does.

She would say: "I was not put on this earth to do your bidding. I'm not giving up MY life for you. What you think or feel does not matter. I brought you into this world and I can take you out. Who else would take care of you? You are lucky I care or you would have no one and nowhere to go. Your father and I are the only people who will ever love you. You will ruin my funeral. I wish I never had you. Children are to be seen and not heard. As long as you live in my house you do not have an opinion, you do not have a say, you will do things my way or hit the road. I feed you, clothe you, and put a roof over your head and you do nothing."

My mother was my bully: she hit, smacked, spanked, pulled hair, threw things, spit on you and kick you in the butt...literally kick you in the butt with her foot as you were walking away.

There was a time in my life where I could have taken a different road, the road that led from my mother...my unbelievable mistrust of women and mothers comes from my mother-sorry all:boohoo:

A woman in england was put on trial because she helped to cover that her son had killed another male. I do think that parents are responsible for how their children turn out. I have heard stories of "terrible" children and maybe they exist? My mother believed in the "bad seed" she thought some children were born bad(and I was one of them). In my experience it is the mother that has the issues and not the child, if a mother speaks poorly of her children-then she is a poor mother-imo.

I admit I use this case to figure out stuff from my own childhood. Seeing Cindy who acts like my mom does "in public" and then I see her get mad and that is just like my mom. Then my sister acts like Casey...so does my cousin who is the daughter to my mothers sister. I have this whole "matriarchal" issue going on in my family. My sister even had an abortion(maybe several)to "spite" my mom.

My mom totally believes in spite: When I was three and she gave me her string of pearls and I broke them "You did that to spite me!" She always thought you were spiting her. She still does...

Thanks WS

...jmo...

Chiquita71 I had some of the same - not all of it. I do understand.
Parents are responsible to cultivate their children, like a Gardner is responsible to water his garden for good results.
But even good parent may sometimes have a child that is not well like Travolta Family.
I know I have one that sounds like Casey. This case is definitely a barometer for many of us.
I can see how sometimes I had enabled my daughter. By watching them. It helps me define it even better.

I facilitated a womans support group for over 8 years so that I can heal my mistrust of Women. We grew beautifully and it was a very powerfully group.

IF i may recommend that you find a womans support group it will do wonders.

But let me start with saying that your Mom knew only what she knew and most likely was raised that way.
For your own healing - forgive her for her ignorance and begin to shift perception.
Be the way you want to be treated for a start, Surround yourself with at least one female that is loving and you can trust and be willing to say NO to anything that does not feel right, the rest will come :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

My Mom was very strict, and I used to call her the General behind her back. But in her last 10 years we were very close, and when she finally passed she said "had I known you would turn out this way I would have had a dozen of you, I do not know where you came from".
WELL - coming from my mom that was so huge it erased years of deep hurt. - hope it givs you inspiration.

 

[songline]

As far as Shirley goes, I agree we have not seen her enough to get a decent handle on how she handles and treats those around her- we have no idea if she lies while staring the person she's lying to right in the eye as she tells them she is not lying (like Cindy and Casey and George do).. etc. We have not been exposed enough to shirley to know anything about her except that she knows her daughter is willing to lie for Casey and that she loved Caylee more than life itself.

But the rest of them? Where I come from.. I totally think we (the public) know more truthful things about this family than any therapist would. Therapists only have what is TOLD him/her and what the therapist observes. If Casey had a therapist he/she would have thought she had a good job, a nanny, was buying her parents home. She would not have known anything Casey or Cindy didn't want her to know. Lying, omitting, switching things around to put oneself (or ones loved one) in a better light (or worse, in some cases) in therapy is quite common.. Therapists that specialize in personality disorders rarely get to see their patients in such a true light (no walls, no masks, no pretending, no denial or finger pointing.. just everything exactly as it IS, at the moment it's happening all right there on the table like a gift) as we have been able to see the Anthony's.

So I gotta disagree with this one- I think the year that these people have been inside of our homes on a nightly basis, spitting out their lies, we have plenty to base our opinions of this family on.

It will not matter how much we see of her - a true diagnosis we will not have. Unless we deal with her directly as a professional.
IMO - all our diagnosis is Pick from column A and then pick from column B
But these people are not even good lier's so YES we can see that they do lie a lot, and that they are not likable.
We the public do not know more then a good therapist would.
But It is fine for you to believe that. I am not bent on being right.
No investment or pay off for me to be right.
90% of the public is seeing things through their very own filter, not a professional filter. They can see the moral code has been broken in this family long ago. that is not the same as diagnosis.

 

[kageykaren]

while lurking in the Caylee forumns I came upon a fellow member telling her own story of an anaology she stated was a true story in her life. I knew I had read this story before on the net. While investigating this plageristic post I came upon a poem-song that was obviously written by a man who has come in contact with a Narcissistic and thought I would share. I don't know how to sparse text so read it the best you can. I hide I cannot relate. I put on a face and shut the gate. I won't confide. I cannot debate. I won't decide. I procrastinate. You can't reach my soul. It's down a deep dark hole and if you love me to well, I'll make your life hell. So well I'v lived this lie. No one can tell, not even I. My babys got the right to ask, but I won't stop and take off the mask. If someone trys to touch my heart, show they care the trouble will start. My greatest fear are her loving eyes and tender hands across my disguise. I'd like to feel like you. To laugh and cry and see things through. We should have it made if I could only in the charade. This can be found on you tube under, Narcissism What makes them tick. This sung by an older gentleman named Doug Payne. Who ever Mr. Payne is talking about seems to also mimick the A women. Difficult to say which A woman this could apply to, one or both? I'll layoff our plagerising W/S member because they helped me land on this interesting poem. <3 Mahalo to all honest kind people.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Hello WS

I hear ya all about "not giving themselves up", mothers...



If you are a good mom you hear an opinion like mine and you say: I do give so much to my children and if I gave more there would be nothing for me-you are right and I agree.:clap:

I had a bad mother. My world is colored by the idea that a mother can be one of the most evil people you could meet. Every woman in my family is like someone in the Anthony family. I have been trying to figure out what I think a "good" mom is and what I think a "good" mom does.

She would say: "I was not put on this earth to do your bidding. I'm not giving up MY life for you. What you think or feel does not matter. I brought you into this world and I can take you out. Who else would take care of you? You are lucky I care or you would have no one and nowhere to go. Your father and I are the only people who will ever love you. You will ruin my funeral. I wish I never had you. Children are to be seen and not heard. As long as you live in my house you do not have an opinion, you do not have a say, you will do things my way or hit the road. I feed you, clothe you, and put a roof over your head and you do nothing."

My mother was my bully: she hit, smacked, spanked, pulled hair, threw things, spit on you and kick you in the butt...literally kick you in the butt with her foot as you were walking away.

There was a time in my life where I could have taken a different road, the road that led from my mother...my unbelievable mistrust of women and mothers comes from my mother-sorry all:boohoo:

A woman in england was put on trial because she helped to cover that her son had killed another male. I do think that parents are responsible for how their children turn out. I have heard stories of "terrible" children and maybe they exist? My mother believed in the "bad seed" she thought some children were born bad(and I was one of them). In my experience it is the mother that has the issues and not the child, if a mother speaks poorly of her children-then she is a poor mother-imo.

I admit I use this case to figure out stuff from my own childhood. Seeing Cindy who acts like my mom does "in public" and then I see her get mad and that is just like my mom. Then my sister acts like Casey...so does my cousin who is the daughter to my mothers sister. I have this whole "matriarchal" issue going on in my family. My sister even had an abortion(maybe several)to "spite" my mom.

My mom totally believes in spite: When I was three and she gave me her string of pearls and I broke them "You did that to spite me!" She always thought you were spiting her. She still does...

Thanks WS


...jmo...

:hug:

 

[OneLostGrl]

It will not matter how much we see of her - a true diagnosis we will not have. Unless we deal with her directly as a professional.
IMO - all our diagnosis is Pick from column A and then pick from column B
But these people are not even good lier's so YES we can see that they do lie a lot, and that they are not likable.
We the public do not know more then a good therapist would.
But It is fine for you to believe that. I am not bent on being right.
No investment or pay off for me to be right.
90% of the public is seeing things through their very own filter, not a professional filter. They can see the moral code has been broken in this family long ago. that is not the same as diagnosis.

lol..

 

[OneLostGrl]

while lurking in the Caylee forumns I came upon a fellow member telling her own story of an anaology she stated was a true story in her life. I knew I had read this story before on the net. While investigating this plageristic post I came upon a poem-song that was obviously written by a man who has come in contact with a Narcissistic and thought I would share. I don't know how to sparse text so read it the best you can. I hide I cannot relate. I put on a face and shut the gate. I won't confide. I cannot debate. I won't decide. I procrastinate. You can't reach my soul. It's down a deep dark hole and if you love me to well, I'll make your life hell. So well I'v lived this lie. No one can tell, not even I. My babys got the right to ask, but I won't stop and take off the mask. If someone trys to touch my heart, show they care the trouble will start. My greatest fear are her loving eyes and tender hands across my disguise. I'd like to feel like you. To laugh and cry and see things through. We should have it made if I could only in the charade. This can be found on you tube under, Narcissism What makes them tick. This sung by an older gentleman named Doug Payne. Who ever Mr. Payne is talking about seems to also mimick the A women. Difficult to say which A woman this could apply to, one or both? I'll layoff our plagerising W/S member because they helped me land on this interesting poem. <3 Mahalo to all honest kind people.

Great link- thanks for sharing.

 

[SoSueMe]

while lurking in the Caylee forumns I came upon a fellow member telling her own story of an anaology she stated was a true story in her life. I knew I had read this story before on the net. While investigating this plageristic post I came upon a poem-song that was obviously written by a man who has come in contact with a Narcissistic and thought I would share. I don't know how to sparse text so read it the best you can. I hide I cannot relate. I put on a face and shut the gate. I won't confide. I cannot debate. I won't decide. I procrastinate. You can't reach my soul. It's down a deep dark hole and if you love me to well, I'll make your life hell. So well I'v lived this lie. No one can tell, not even I. My babys got the right to ask, but I won't stop and take off the mask. If someone trys to touch my heart, show they care the trouble will start. My greatest fear are her loving eyes and tender hands across my disguise. I'd like to feel like you. To laugh and cry and see things through. We should have it made if I could only in the charade. This can be found on you tube under, Narcissism What makes them tick. This sung by an older gentleman named Doug Payne. Who ever Mr. Payne is talking about seems to also mimick the A women. Difficult to say which A woman this could apply to, one or both? I'll layoff our plagerising W/S member because they helped me land on this interesting poem. <3 Mahalo to all honest kind people.

To me, this sounds so much like something KC would write if she could express herself. If you really get into reading her icons that she liked so well, the hurt, the mistrust, the deceit, it's all there. It's kind of sad really.

 

[Amil]

We don't even need a developmental history.. it's the same ol' story. A personality disordered "insert mothers name" and a "insert fathers name" too weak & beaten down by (more likely than not, his OWN personality disordered mother and then the woman he married to take his mommy's place. OR he was smart enough to leave her a$$ but was too self centered to worry about what she'd do to the children and just moved on with his life) his wife to do a f^c#in' thing about it. So the children live their lives feeling lonely, unloved & worthless. They never know what to expect from the mother ( for example- is she going to love me today or is it going to be my fault the car broke down?... is she going to make dinner today or is she going to scream and yell about how she's the only person who does anything around here and if we want to eat feed our own damn selves!) so there is constant fear.

They grow up having their feelings.. their emotions invalidated & belittled. Their childhood, their lives are never about them, it's always about the mother and what she wants and what she expects. She berates her "loved ones" in private but equates them to G0d Himself in public. She is chaotic (draaamaaa), she lies, blame shifts, compliments one day the same thing she ridicules the next, she pits the children against one another, sometimes just for fun she'll pit the father and children against one another (of course, leaving no proof of this). Then she sits back and watches the show.. pointing fingers and blaming and ridiculing the entire time.

I know some of the story changes depending on the people involved but the behaviors are the same.

Anyway, I'm sure you don't need me to school you on the "ism's" of personality disorders . My own word salad here (LOL) was just to say that IMO the "developmental history" is that these are children who are hostages of a parent with untreated personality disorders. They can't leave, they can't choose. So they learn to cope as best they can.

Are you my sister?

 

[Verité]

. . .My mom totally believes in spite: When I was three and she gave me her string of pearls and I broke them "You did that to spite me!" She always thought you were spiting her. She still does...

Ohhhh, I sure been there with my little guy when he was three and I found
with horror that he'd sprung the hinge on my favorite bracelet so that it
wouldn't close back round. When I asked him why in the world he'd done
that, he said, "But, Mom, I was just trying to make a 3." I melted.

But even today, when he's touching any of my special stuff, I cut the tension
by saying, "Please don't try to make a three!" We have a good laugh.

I'm sorry your little self was guilt-tripped. Bet you at three had a good
reason, too!

 

[Amil]

We don't even need a developmental history.. it's the same ol' story. A personality disordered "insert mothers name" and a "insert fathers name" too weak & beaten down by (more likely than not, his OWN personality disordered mother and then the woman he married to take his mommy's place. OR he was smart enough to leave her a$$ but was too self centered to worry about what she'd do to the children and just moved on with his life) his wife to do a f^c#in' thing about it. So the children live their lives feeling lonely, unloved & worthless. They never know what to expect from the mother ( for example- is she going to love me today or is it going to be my fault the car broke down?... is she going to make dinner today or is she going to scream and yell about how she's the only person who does anything around here and if we want to eat feed our own damn selves!) so there is constant fear.

They grow up having their feelings.. their emotions invalidated & belittled. Their childhood, their lives are never about them, it's always about the mother and what she wants and what she expects. She berates her "loved ones" in private but equates them to G0d Himself in public. She is chaotic (draaamaaa), she lies, blame shifts, compliments one day the same thing she ridicules the next, she pits the children against one another, sometimes just for fun she'll pit the father and children against one another (of course, leaving no proof of this). Then she sits back and watches the show.. pointing fingers and blaming and ridiculing the entire time.

I know some of the story changes depending on the people involved but the behaviors are the same.

Anyway, I'm sure you don't need me to school you on the "ism's" of personality disorders :crazy:. My own word salad here (LOL) was just to say that IMO the "developmental history" is that these are children who are hostages of a parent with untreated personality disorders. They can't leave, they can't choose. So they learn to cope as best they can.

Are you my sister??

 

[OneLostGrl]

Ohhhh, I sure been there with my little guy when he was three and I found
with horror that he'd sprung the hinge on my favorite bracelet so that it
wouldn't close back round. When I asked him why in the world he'd done
that, he said, "But, Mom, I was just trying to make a 3." I melted.

But even today, when he's touching any of my special stuff, I cut the tension
by saying, "Please don't try to make a three!" We have a good laugh.

I'm sorry your little self was guilt-tripped. Bet you at three had a good
reason, too!

that's not my post you quoted

 

[OneLostGrl]

Are you my sister??

:hug:

 

[countzero]

I said this many months ago. If the car was stuck on the railroad track, neither CA nor KC would push Caylee out of the way to save her. They would jump out the car first, let the train hit the car, then blame each other for not getting Caylee out.

Selfish, self-centered, manipulative humans. Kinda/sorta what already happened to Caylee without the train.

 

[claudicici]

...i don't want to start sounding as if i 'm defending kc,but i guess i just see her differently...i don't think she was selfish or self centered,i don't think she knew herself yet,i don't think she ever developed herself yet,i think she was trying and struggling to be someone....so how can someone who really isn't anyone yet,someone who is so confused and angry and unsure,raise someone else...imo,she tried to start fresh and forget everything in the past ,including caylee,just to be someone...imo nothing that happened was real to her...i really think she feels,i think her icons are the most telling and it really is sad and scary how messed up she is..

 

[debs]

...i don't want to start sounding as if i 'm defending kc,but i guess i just see her differently...i don't think she was selfish or self centered,i don't think she knew herself yet,i don't think she ever developed herself yet,i think she was trying and struggling to be someone....so how can someone who really isn't anyone yet,someone who is so confused and angry and unsure,raise someone else...imo,she tried to start fresh and forget everything in the past ,including caylee,just to be someone...imo nothing that happened was real to her...i really think she feels,i think her icons are the most telling and it really is sad and scary how messed up she is..

She sucks it up and she starts thinking about the life she created instead of the life she could have had if only she'd never had the baby. She starts acting responsibly. She starts finding herself. She starts defining herself as an adult with a child and not a child with a child. She starts putting together a new future that includes the child.

What she doesn't do is play life-and-death monopoly with her small child, introducing her to adult parties. What she doesn't do is play pickle-in-the-middle over the baby with her equally selfish and childish mother. What she doesn't do is determine that death of the child is infinitely easier than death of childish dreams.

 

[Mamabear1963]

Ohhhh, I sure been there with my little guy when he was three and I found
with horror that he'd sprung the hinge on my favorite bracelet so that it
wouldn't close back round. When I asked him why in the world he'd done
that, he said, "But, Mom, I was just trying to make a 3." I melted.

But even today, when he's touching any of my special stuff, I cut the tension
by saying, "Please don't try to make a three!" We have a good laugh.

I'm sorry your little self was guilt-tripped. Bet you at three had a good
reason, too!

Thank you for that reminder...as mom's we need/must be quick to listen and slow to speak.

I have some jokes like that with my older dc.

OTOH, even if KC is the way she is because of her upbringing...she is still responsible for any action she took. We maybe able to understand why at some point but it will never take away the fact she did what she did, even if it was "only" not calling anyone for 31 days (and I believe it was more than that).

After reading Small Sacrifices, I understood how Diane got to where she was...she still murdered her dc...but as I read I could see how her mind wrapped around to get her to that point.

I don't feel like I am making a lot of sense right now...I am not condoning or saying there was no hope to keep a murder from happening...I could just see how she got to where she was. And I think we are seeing how KC thinks and responds.

 

[Verité]

She sucks it up and she starts thinking about the life she created instead of the life she could have had if only she'd never had the baby. She starts acting responsibly. She starts finding herself. She starts defining herself as an adult with a child and not a child with a child. She starts putting together a new future that includes the child.

What she doesn't do is play life-and-death monopoly with her small child, introducing her to adult parties. What she doesn't do is play pickle-in-the-middle over the baby with her equally selfish and childish mother. What she doesn't do is determine that death of the child is infinitely easier than death of childish dreams.

Ohh, I like all your strong talk which maybe some young folks could be/do in the flick-of-a-thumb. But, becoz you sound so strong, I just gotta wonder (and you can slap me back down for being so impertinent) why you've got a quote from Anais Nin, someone who, if we're to believe her long-time sig. other, Gore Vidal, says she didn't have much of a self either, way on into her adulthood????