Casey & Family Psychological Profile #9

[Truthwillsetufree]

Yes, yes and yes. There was/is something very underlyingly weird with the mother/daughter relationship between those two. KC it seems was damned if she did and well, you know. The fact that KC used the fact that Caylee was first placed in CA's arms as such a sore spot moment is indicative of some deep underlying control issues. After hearing about it though, I'm thinking that hospitals should have a rule! I swear, I'm still suspicious about who Caylee's bio father was as I feel that this knowledge would shed light on the overall situation. It's a gut feeling I have and, of course, could be way off base.

Bolded part by me...When I first heard this, I thought it was the weirdest thing I ever heard in my life, I thought to my self, Who actually cares? Because in reality, the DR. delivering the baby holds it first and then he passes the baby off to a nurse, who then might even pass it off to another nurse, who then lays the baby in a warmer, makes sure everything is okay, does it's score, cleans it up, wraps it up, then possibly another set of hands is laid on the child, to hand to the grandmother or Mom or in some cases Dad, so for the love of Pete how many sets of hands....unless this is something CA told KC over and over and over, "Caylee bonded with me, because I held her first." So KC started to believe CA. Which is ridiculous. The Dr. held her first. Who knows? Just a thought an opinion, a theory.

 

[MissJames]

I see the article as an opportunity for the Doctor to comment on a social/culture problem for the sake of heightening awareness that, indeed, unmarried women are more often than not left holding the bag so to speak of raising the child/children.

Obvious to us, the Doctor is not versed on the case, and because it has not been tried yet, the article citing Caylee's case should not have been published. Don't blame the Doctor, blame the writer and publisher/reporter.

Why so hot? Do you deny that women are "stuck" more often than not raising children alone? If so, brush up on social studies.

I see it both ways.I don't think the Dr. was wrong, but I also don't see KC as trying to be responsible.She was lying through her teeth,stringing him along.
There was no job! She wasn't struggling to work and raise a child,while trying to maintain a social life. The nanny was not trying to get home so KC could have her hook up.She obviously just didn't want to see him.
KC liked having a fish on the line while she was cooking one up for dinner.She flirted with other guys and led them on ,just in case the boy of the day didn't work out.
Yes,TR acted like scum in those messages,but he had reason to believe KC would want to see him.

 

[essies]

Bolded part by me...When I first heard this, I thought it was the weirdest thing I ever heard in my life, I thought to my self, Who actually cares? Because in reality, the DR. delivering the baby holds it first and then he passes the baby off to a nurse, who then might even pass it off to another nurse, who then lays the baby in a warmer, makes sure everything is okay, does it's score, cleans it up, wraps it up, then possibly another set of hands is laid on the child, to hand to the grandmother or Mom or in some cases Dad, so for the love of Pete how many sets of hands....unless this is something CA told KC over and over and over, "Caylee bonded with me, because I held her first." So KC started to believe CA. Which is ridiculous. The Dr. held her first. Who knows? Just a thought an opinion, a theory.

Ya know the whole "Cindy held her first" thing just smacks of Anthony melodrama! If It hadn't been that-it would have been something else-that's just the way the Anthony's role!! When I had my son-I had an emergency c-section because of pre-eclampsia. I was out from anathesia for quite a while. When I woke up my mother-in- law (who I loved dearly) was there with pictures of her holding my son. I was overjoyed to see my child in the arms of his grandmother. But, we weren't the Anthony's-we certainly have our share of familial problems, like everyone does. But, there are some family's that just live for drama-toxic to the core!!

 

[RR0004]

While looking for the other article peeps are saying is carp, I ran across these IM's between KC and TR again. The tone I feel within them is pressure/immaturity from him, not her. Plus I sense she does not wish to feel like just a lay as she diverts the conversation to a later date and the possibility of them doing something concrete together - not just *advertiser censored*****. Does anyone sense the pressure HE throws out at her about her responsibilities as a mom? He has no business doing that and should stick to women without children. Those IM's really burn me. He added to her brewing resentment of being bogged down with child. In those IM's, KC was acting responsibile. It takes a village people! That TR guy could of cared less about that little girl or the bigger girl's dilema. Glad he's off the force.

Gee, I saw it as her way of stringing him along. Wasn't she seeing someone else at the time? In this case, I see her as "using" Caylee as an excuse not to get together. She was always putting him off, yet keeping him connected at the same time by being "suggestive". We had a name for girls like her in my youth.

Now, I have to go back and read them to see if I still get the same feeling.

 

[MissJames]

I see the article as an opportunity for the Doctor to comment on a social/culture problem for the sake of heightening awareness that, indeed, unmarried women are more often than not left holding the bag so to speak of raising the child/children.

Obvious to us, the Doctor is not versed on the case, and because it has not been tried yet, the article citing Caylee's case should not have been published. Don't blame the Doctor, blame the writer and publisher/reporter.

Why so hot? Do you deny that women are "stuck" more often than not raising children alone? If so, brush up on social studies.

ITA It's quite possible she uses researchers.Imagine someone giving you the bare minimum information,then showing you those IM's.
I remember when they first came out in the doc dump.We were picking that IM to pieces and coming to a similar conclusion.KC called Caylee the little snothead and was stuck at home with her.
ETA : should not generalize! SOME of us came to a similar conclusion.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Pardon? My comment was in support of women and that by using Casey as an example Kirwin was doing a disservice to women who face very real struggles. As for my personal awareness of women's issues and social issues I can assure you that I am well versed in both, thanks.

In regards to Casey being stuck or saddled with a child, it was her choice to have Caylee and to raise her. As it was a choice to seek no further action in attaining financial support for Caylee from her biological father, dead, alive, or otherwise, not something she was burdened with. It was a choice to pursue men who had little interest in Casey as a mother or her child. It was a choice for Casey to fake employment rather than seeking a real job. It was a choice to steal from Caylee's piggy bank, her parents, family members, and friends to fund her own wants and needs. In the end I also believe Casey chose to kill her daughter. As a feminist I am glad to see Casey have so many choices, but I am not so blind as to not identify those which were selfish and harmful to others and deserve punishment. Those were actions I believe Casey chose out of her sociopathic tendencies rather than being a desperate single young woman with a child. That in a nutshell is why I am so "hot".

First of all, I apologize that my response sounded harsh - as I read it again just now.

Why weren't KC's struggles real? Her family appears to suffer from undiagnosed BPD among other things and she herself appears to have something that led her not to be able to function wholey in society at large. Without the enabling parents she would have to be a welfare recipient. Is that so great?

Some guy had unprotected sex with a young KC and got her pregnant. He is not in the picture. The only reason KC appears to not be so badly off is because she was able live in her Mother's house. Which, by the way, they seemed to be one paycheck away from loosing it all too. Yes, KC made her choices, but some guy poked her without a raincoat and just walked away. People should not be producing offspring prior to having a plan as to how they are going to care for their children. In a perfect world, children should be provided the basic creature comforts by their parents. KC and Caylee had that only because of CA otherwise KC would fall into the category of poverty.

Imo it doesn't matter if she was 18 or 28, if she did not have the means of providing for the child, she should not have had one. That's my perfect world scenario. BUT where is the bio's responsibility? Because it is a hidden secret, we can't discuss that in reference to Caylee. In society at large, all too often the male just walks away whistling Dixie while the mother and child are left to fend for themselves.

A family is meant to be a system - I don't care how the roles are divided - but without means, one person cannot do it alone. If one has enough money, they can hire people to fill in where they cannot. If one is lucky enough to have willing family members that are happy to help then that is the ultimate gift for the child (if everyone is happy about it).

I'm really sick of story after story where children suffer because MEN do not live up to their responsibilities for the children they help to create. That is what the Doctor in the article is conveying at least to me anyway.

Here's a scenario for you to ponder. Caylee's bio did care that he fathered her. He became aware of the trouble KC was having because he was engaged in the situation. He contributed funds and took Caylee off KC's hands on a regular basis in order to be a part of the child's life. Could there have been a happier ending for Caylee? (p.s. altho it is possible, i don't believe for one minute that caylees's bio is dead - so he can feel bad too)

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Wow, I'm in the midst of some very perceptive and intelligent people. The article was written by someone that doesn't know the specific details of the case. I don't know how we can connect Casey to those other poor struggling mothers mentioned. Poorly written article, in MHO.

Just to drive my point home, those other poor struggling mothers made their choices too. There is no rule that one must become a mother. Is there?

In the airplane they tell you to take the oxygen first or you'll be no use to help the children.

 

[Brini]

First of all, I apologize that my response sounded harsh - as I read it again just now.

Why weren't KC's struggles real? Her family appears to suffer from undiagnosed BPD among other things and she herself appears to have something that led her not to be able to function wholey in society at large. Without the enabling parents she would have to be a welfare recipient. Is that so great?

Some guy had unprotected sex with a young KC and got her pregnant. He is not in the picture. The only reason KC appears to not be so badly off is because she was able live in her Mother's house. Which, by the way, they seemed to be one paycheck away from loosing it all too. Yes, KC made her choices, but some guy poked her without a raincoat and just walked away. People should not be producing offspring prior to having a plan as to how they are going to care for their children. In a perfect world, children should be provided the basic creature comforts by their parents. KC and Caylee had that only because of CA otherwise KC would fall into the category of poverty.

Imo it doesn't matter if she was 18 or 28, if she did not have the means of providing for the child, she should not have had one. That's my perfect world scenario. BUT where is the bio's responsibility? Because it is a hidden secret, we can't discuss that in reference to Caylee. In society at large, all too often the male just walks away whistling Dixie while the mother and child are left to fend for themselves.

A family is meant to be a system - I don't care how the roles are divided - but without means, one person cannot do it alone. If one has enough money, they can hire people to fill in where they cannot. If one is lucky enough to have willing family members that are happy to help then that is the ultimate gift for the child (if everyone is happy about it).

I'm really sick of story after story where children suffer because MEN do not live up to their responsibilities for the children they help to create. That is what the Doctor in the article is conveying at least to me anyway.

Here's a scenario for you to ponder. Caylee's bio did care that he fathered her. He became aware of the trouble KC was having because he was engaged in the situation. He contributed funds and took Caylee off KC's hands on a regular basis in order to be a part of the child's life. Could there have been a happier ending for Caylee? (p.s. altho it is possible, i don't believe for one minute that caylees's bio is dead - so he can feel bad too)

My guess is that KC wasn't interested in continuing any sort of relationship with the fa (if she knew who he was). Per Kio, KC and the fatehr were mutually disillusioned.

Which would not have stopped KC of the family from getting child support.

But, I don't think the family wanted any other family to have any say in Caylee's upbringing. AEB, CA's hostility toward the Grunds.

I suspect that CA was content with KC not pursuing the issue.

 

[Brini]

Just to drive my point home, those other poor struggling mothers made their choices too. There is no rule that one must become a mother. Is there?

In the airplane they tell you to take the oxygen first or you'll be no use to help the children.

Call me old-fashioned. I always limited myself to what I could feed and raise.

NOT getting pregnant is very easy.

My Mom (who used a diaphram) said, "It doesn't do a d----ed bit of good in the drawer."

 

[MaedchenX]

First of all, I apologize that my response sounded harsh - as I read it again just now.

Why weren't KC's struggles real? Her family appears to suffer from undiagnosed BPD among other things and she herself appears to have something that led her not to be able to function wholey in society at large. Without the enabling parents she would have to be a welfare recipient. Is that so great?

Some guy had unprotected sex with a young KC and got her pregnant. He is not in the picture. The only reason KC appears to not be so badly off is because she was able live in her Mother's house. Which, by the way, they seemed to be one paycheck away from loosing it all too. Yes, KC made her choices, but some guy poked her without a raincoat and just walked away. People should not be producing offspring prior to having a plan as to how they are going to care for their children. In a perfect world, children should be provided the basic creature comforts by their parents. KC and Caylee had that only because of CA otherwise KC would fall into the category of poverty.

Imo it doesn't matter if she was 18 or 28, if she did not have the means of providing for the child, she should not have had one. That's my perfect world scenario. BUT where is the bio's responsibility? Because it is a hidden secret, we can't discuss that in reference to Caylee. In society at large, all too often the male just walks away whistling Dixie while the mother and child are left to fend for themselves.

A family is meant to be a system - I don't care how the roles are divided - but without means, one person cannot do it alone. If one has enough money, they can hire people to fill in where they cannot. If one is lucky enough to have willing family members that are happy to help then that is the ultimate gift for the child (if everyone is happy about it).

I'm really sick of story after story where children suffer because MEN do not live up to their responsibilities for the children they help to create. That is what the Doctor in the article is conveying at least to me anyway.

Here's a scenario for you to ponder. Caylee's bio did care that he fathered her. He became aware of the trouble KC was having because he was engaged in the situation. He contributed funds and took Caylee off KC's hands on a regular basis in order to be a part of the child's life. Could there have been a happier ending for Caylee? (p.s. altho it is possible, i don't believe for one minute that caylees's bio is dead - so he can feel bad too)

:blowkiss: No worries! I too apologize if I came off as overly defensive or antagonistic.

I don't doubt Casey struggled, and I am not suggesting that it is easy to be a young mother with a high school education, a dead end job, and no father in the picture. I am also sure that it was difficult for Casey living at home with her parents even though they provided for the needs of her child as well as housing and feeding herself. However there is no evidence that Casey sought employment or an alternative living arrangement (except for the questionable promises she was making Amy). By all accounts Casey stole thousands of dollars, she could have squirreled some away and found herself an apartment and sought out public assistance. She could have taken advantage of Lauren G watching Caylee for free those 8 months and found a job, part time, nights, something. Still, there has been nothing to suggest that Casey took any action to better herself or to secure her own future and that of her child. Instead she lived in a fantasy world deceiving and taking advantage of those around her, focusing on cheap passing thrills and shallow romantic dalliances. My point being that Casey the sociopath rather than Casey the single mom is the person responsible for her daughter's death and current lot in life, and that is why it is insulting for me to see the comparison to other women who have done more with less and come out ahead. Even if coming out ahead means they are loving protective mothers who are barely getting by.

I agree with you on many of your points about absentee fathers who have the luxury of walking away from their responsibilities with nary the slightest social stigma. And while there is legal recourse for mothers, that bears no guarantee of any support financial or otherwise. I also believe that Caylee's biological father may very well be alive, whether he knew that he was Caylee's father in life is anyone's guess.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Gee, I saw it as her way of stringing him along. Wasn't she seeing someone else at the time? In this case, I see her as "using" Caylee as an excuse not to get together. She was always putting him off, yet keeping him connected at the same time by being "suggestive". We had a name for girls like her in my youth.

Now, I have to go back and read them to see if I still get the same feeling.

In this case, the TR im's, he wanted candy and nothing more. Too bad fellow. She invites him to hear music in the future her treat and he says something to the affect that not unless she shows up tonight. KC couldn't leave Caylee right then; she sometimes didn't have someone to watch her. If she was using her lack of childcare as an excuse not to go see him, that's her choice. He was pressuring her all because he wasn't gonna get it within the next hour or two. Too bad - she's not his wife. Am I the only one who sees it like this? She owed him nothing - nada.

 

[Jolynna]

First of all, I apologize that my response sounded harsh - as I read it again just now.

Why weren't KC's struggles real? Her family appears to suffer from undiagnosed BPD among other things and she herself appears to have something that led her not to be able to function wholey in society at large. Without the enabling parents she would have to be a welfare recipient. Is that so great?

Some guy had unprotected sex with a young KC and got her pregnant. He is not in the picture. The only reason KC appears to not be so badly off is because she was able live in her Mother's house. Which, by the way, they seemed to be one paycheck away from loosing it all too. Yes, KC made her choices, but some guy poked her without a raincoat and just walked away. People should not be producing offspring prior to having a plan as to how they are going to care for their children. In a perfect world, children should be provided the basic creature comforts by their parents. KC and Caylee had that only because of CA otherwise KC would fall into the category of poverty.

Imo it doesn't matter if she was 18 or 28, if she did not have the means of providing for the child, she should not have had one. That's my perfect world scenario. BUT where is the bio's responsibility? Because it is a hidden secret, we can't discuss that in reference to Caylee. In society at large, all too often the male just walks away whistling Dixie while the mother and child are left to fend for themselves.

A family is meant to be a system - I don't care how the roles are divided - but without means, one person cannot do it alone. If one has enough money, they can hire people to fill in where they cannot. If one is lucky enough to have willing family members that are happy to help then that is the ultimate gift for the child (if everyone is happy about it).

I'm really sick of story after story where children suffer because MEN do not live up to their responsibilities for the children they help to create. That is what the Doctor in the article is conveying at least to me anyway.

Here's a scenario for you to ponder. Caylee's bio did care that he fathered her. He became aware of the trouble KC was having because he was engaged in the situation. He contributed funds and took Caylee off KC's hands on a regular basis in order to be a part of the child's life. Could there have been a happier ending for Caylee? (p.s. altho it is possible, i don't believe for one minute that caylees's bio is dead - so he can feel bad too)

All of this is assuming the guy even knew KC's name. Let alone knew that there was a baby resulting from the union.

 

[Jolynna]

I have no sympathy for KC.

When KC wanted to leave her parent's house and not be burdened with a child, she did what she needed to do.

The woman was hardly a cowering violet. KC was more than ABLE to set and achieve a goal. KC managed to get out of the family home, get rid of her daughter, hide the body, find a new place to live, download a picture of Fusian to photobucket, talk to friends, download computer files from one computer to another, make phone calls to placate Cindy & George, hug Tony in public and help pick out movies all in ONE day. The next day she started cooking, cleaning and doing laundry for herself & 4 MEN! Within four days she was managing a herd of shot girls.

KC could set appointments for her fingernails and tattoos, route banking numbers to pay bills, negotiate phone bill payments, make sure a Penney credit card was valid and she had the guts to chase down her friends to go to Fusian like the most annoying telemarketer ever. That isn't exactly behaving like a broken, battered, bereaved or confused spirit.




IMO

 

[RR0004]

In this case, the TR im's, he wanted candy and nothing more. Too bad fellow. She invites him to hear music in the future her treat and he says something to the affect that not unless she shows up tonight. KC couldn't leave Caylee right then; she sometimes didn't have someone to watch her. If she was using her lack of childcare as an excuse not to go see him, that's her choice. He was pressuring her all because he wasn't gonna get it within the next hour or two. Too bad - she's not his wife. Am I the only one who sees it like this? She owed him nothing - nada.

...but do we know that she actually stayed home? Was Caylee really with her? I know one night the texting went on and on...but it wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't doing exactly what she said she was doing. There were just too many texts sent to too many people that were just blatant lies. What about that poor guy she was texting up till the time TL was arriving back in Orlando? Casey was a user IMO...not the "usee".

I understand completely, but you don't get to this point uninvited, so to speak. How about saying "I'm not interested" instead of playing along?

 

[Curious Me]

I have no sympathy for KC.

When KC wanted to leave her parent's house and not be burdened with a child, she did what she needed to do.

The woman was hardly a cowering violet. KC was more than ABLE to set and achieve a goal. KC managed to get out of the family home, get rid of her daughter, hide the body, find a new place to live, download a picture of Fusian to photobucket, talk to friends, download computer files from one computer to another, make phone calls to placate Cindy & George, hug Tony in public and help pick out movies all in ONE day. The next day she started cooking, cleaning and doing laundry for herself & 4 MEN! Within four days she was managing a herd of shot girls.

KC could set appointments for her fingernails and tattoos, route banking numbers to pay bills, negotiate phone bill payments, make sure a Penney credit card was valid and she had the guts to chase down her friends to go to Fusian like the most annoying telemarketer ever. That isn't exactly behaving like a broken, battered, bereaved or confused spirit.




IMO

Jolynna, thank you for getting that down for the record. I, too, hardly see Casey as helpless. Are they going to say she was forced to kill because she wanted "a Life"? So did Caylee!

Some guys are dogs, that's just a fact. Some girls learn to carry their own condoms along after the first baby. Tony R. was nothing more than a couch in Casey's life. She uses people like objects. I see her coming to this even if supported by Caylee's bio father, or Jesse - someone perfectly willing to have a good family life with her.

I don't see her struggling that much. Is there really any doubt or argument that it's way wrong to kill your baby because you want a different life? Is struggling to pay rent and carry your own groceries the same as struggling with the body of your dead daughter? Is wanting a different life acceptable reason to kill people? Wasn't there any other way, Casey? Caylee wanted a life too!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

All of this is assuming the guy even knew KC's name. Let alone knew that there was a baby resulting from the union.

I've calmed down. You're right about that. It's possible for a guy not to know what he left behind. Still too bad for the child though.

My horoscope May 08 - Dec. 2010: "And don't get so carried away with your idealistic feelings that you cannot relate to the actual conditions you will have to deal with ....."

:snooty::slap:YOU THINK I HAVE THIS PROBLEM??? :slap: :truce:

 

[Chiquita71]

I think that my comment makes the most sense on this thread. If not, I hope someone (a mod maybe) will re-direct it...I don't know where else to place this!???

I have been following this case since the beginning. I read here (regularly) and many other places (sporadically). Always, consistently, I see comments about how "surely", "without question", "obviously" CA loved Caylee. Personally, I don't believe that CA is capable of "love" in the true sense of the word but despite that, I've searched high and low in the FACTUAL information that we have to believe that she did. I have found nothing other than material evidence. Caylee most certainly had every frikkin' toy that money could buy...But what else did she have? An attentive Grandmother who knew who she was with every day for the 2 1/2 years of her life? For crying out loud! This woman who loved her Grand-daughter dearly didn't even have the "nanny's" phone number!??? Didn't know what her Grand-daughter did morning to evening every single day of her short life! I'm sorry but something doesn't equate for me. It hasn't from the very beginning and I'm sure that it doesn't now. I don't mean to offend normal people with normal sentiments. But "normal" is not a word I would use to describe CA.

MOO

Hello WS

Quote Respect Pink Panther: :clap:

I am still reading to catch up. (Great conversation by everyone btw) But this post by Pink Panther echoes so much of how I feel about this case. (Bolded by me)

And I wanted to add:

CA: ...And so you know this is one compelling thing I don't think my daughters...my granddaughters birth is plotting this murder for my grandchild so this person's not been made up in the last month or two okay?
LE: Have you ever met Zanny?
CA: No I haven't.
LE: Okay
CA: And you know its...I don't really, you know a lot of people say well you're grandma you're supposed to be concerned why don't you know. Well you know what? I trust my daughter, I still trust my daughter.
LE: Yeah

This kind of "love" the world can do without.

...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS

 

[Brini]

All of this is assuming the guy even knew KC's name. Let alone knew that there was a baby resulting from the union.

Particularly since Uncle Rick said he thinks KC got preggers at a party, where she made a few new friends. an "early Christmas party." Very early in the December before Caylee was born.

 

[Mystic]

Well, I have to say that there's no way that CA didn't notice something amiss with KC early on. Parents know what is obnormal and beyond usual... gee's notwithstanding she is a nurse. And obviously felt comfortable enough to tell KC's friends she was a socialpath and thief. CA probably did have KC evaulated in some way and that may be the reason behind how the family allowed this behaviour to continue and esculate. Just looking at their way of interacting with KC by tip toeing, being meek just in case KC flys into anger. They inappropriaely chose to deal with it themselves in their way not paying attention to the consequences. KC needed professional help and the family required it also in order to deal effectively with KC. So imo I believe CA knew so early on that she should have strongly pushed KC into adopting out the child.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hello WS

Quote Respect Pink Panther: :clap:

I am still reading to catch up. (Great conversation by everyone btw) But this post by Pink Panther echoes so much of how I feel about this case. (Bolded by me)

And I wanted to add:

CA: ...And so you know this is one compelling thing I don't think my daughters...my granddaughters birth is plotting this murder for my grandchild so this person's not been made up in the last month or two okay?
LE: Have you ever met Zanny?
CA: No I haven't.
LE: Okay
CA: And you know its...I don't really, you know a lot of people say well you're grandma you're supposed to be concerned why don't you know. Well you know what? I trust my daughter, I still trust my daughter.
LE: Yeah

This kind of "love" the world can do without.

...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS

I hope I can express myself without causing any trouble. On some thread, somewhere, long ago, someone pointed out to me (and I took it in) that I was having trouble "getting it" because I would never be able to think like that (dastardly). It is so hard to loose ones own radar/perspective/normalcy and delve into the depths of another's psychy when you would never think like that. I want to lift up/to hope there is a better explanation for such an aweful ending to the life of a child. We all come from different orientations.

Within the contents of this case, everyone living together - sharing roof, childcare, etc., I agree with the above and PP.

In my world/life, I lived in Germany when my boy was three/California when he was four/five - Mom has been in Illinois. She has always shown an interest in my boy, would ask questions and want to know all of what was going on - my joys and my struggles. But she did trust me with his care and had no reason to fly out and meet the young woman who occasionally lent me a hand, etc. If something oh so bad would have happend to my son or me, Mom would have been in the dark but not because of neglect but due to circumstances.

What I'm trying to sort out is, when looking at the case - the shoulds and the could haves - we all muddle it with our own belief/orientation/experience that make up our backgrounds.

Let me be clear, had I been living with my Mom within her house as a very young woman, you bet she would have been all in it - which is why I probably never could have!

I almost see CA living/reacting as the way she thinks things should have been (like her world view) versus the way things really were/are (reality). It's like she has this story in her mind of how life "should be" and darn it the players of her life better fit the story - but they don't.