Casey & Family Psychological Profile #9

[Truthwillsetufree]

Also, KC has a way of creating an aura of mystery around herself.

She's really just a nicely wrapped empty box. But, she manages to put across that she has depths, secrets, all kinds of stuff.

The family is a mystery, I would like to know what went on in that fake house. You are correct KC is just an empty box. Perfect description.

 

[Brini]

I could agree with you a thousand times. Just depends on which topic these specific statements come up in and where in the statement you place the emphasis. Like I said, at least for me, I've analyzed their statements to death, to the point they are almost meaningless because now I can make them mean anything.

Exactly!

Among family and close friends, there are often shared experiences, thus shared communications that only make sense to those involved.

For instance, my mother used to say, "There's trouble right here in River City." That meant there was a difficulty to overcome, but it wasn't terrible.

Here's an exchange that I had with a friend that might sound suspicious, if I was speaking from jail:


Picture of a black widow spider, captioned, "Friend of yours?"

Response: "Very funny!"

My response: "Well, don't look under the bed!"


This refers to two incidents and two friends, at different times. The two speakers shared the experiences.


Here's another that wouldn't sound suspicious, but wouldn't make any sense, to someone outside the relationship, either:

Me: "Romeo, where?"

Friend: Which?

Me: "John."

Friend: "Dorothy C."


In summary, involved people: families, spouses, friends, co-workers, often speak in a sort of shorthand, because of shared experiences.

 

[doogiesgirl]

How about Uncle Rick's theory? The party in December? I gather he heard about it from his Mom, who got it from CA.

Caylee was not fathered by a relative, because her DNA did not show the homozygous alleles. That's how one can recognize children that are the products of incest, in the absence of parental DNA. Her DNA was heterozygous.

RP Hasn't seen the A's since his marriage, and not much before that. The As have been isolated from the extended family for a long time, due to their enabling of KC's criminality.

RP only hears news of the As through their mother. hang out with them.

If KC has cousins, she doesn't hang with them.

With respect, I'm not sure why incest and KC keeps coming up, when there is no evidence of same?

KC has enough male friends. All of them apear to be young, attractive (by her standards), partyers. Some are productive, some are not. None seem terribhly mature.

No evidence of a rich, older guy. No calls/texts/apparently no financial support, or LE would've found it.

As LE says, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one (Occam's Razor).

It may be that only Kio has the story, when she said she met the guy who fathered KC. One nighter, and he and KC weren't into eachother.

Or, maybe Uncle Rick was right, and it was a party.

But, whomever the father was, there is no evidence to implicate him, at all.

And, we likely don't want to start an ugly rumor, implicating an innocent (again!).

Meanwhile-- CK is correct. Anyone interested in discussing incest can find the thread in the PL.

Ok let me get this straight. We are now positive that Caylee is not a product of incest? B/c I will be happy to know this has been positively ruled out by LE. I knew LA was cleared, I just wasn't aware that reached to all other male family members.

Also I think that incest thread is gone in the PL, I haven't been able to find it for months. JMO

 

[doogiesgirl]

Now, I thought KC's reaction, "You don't know my involvement?!" was an appropriate response to CA's, "I don't know your involvement,"

It sounded to me like she was implying, "You think I'm INVOLVED!?! Mother!?! How COULD you?!?"

"I didn't tell them anything, could have meant the big fight, the latest theft, or any of the family disfunction. I'm guessing it meant the fight on the 15th.

The family fight information would be EXTREMELY incriminating, to KC.

I keep going round and round with myself about the visit to the jail where CA says "we forgive you for anything you've said" (not exact quote).

Sometimes I think it means the A rents are scared of KC telling all the family secrets.

Other times I wonder if LE wasn't trying to get through to CA that they saw a pattern with KC trying (but always falling short-coz CA can't be pleased) to follow her mother's rules and that she won't talk b/c she fears her mother won't forgive her for what's happened to Caylee. (I truly think LE kept an open mind in those early days, they had their gut feeling that his girl probably killed her kid but like good cops were willing to check down other paths.) Whether Caylee was alive or dead, LE got the sense from what talking KC did, that she was not spilling her guts due to CA. So when CA is at that first jail visitation and she says "we forgive you for whatever you've said", I sometimes think she was trying a different tack with KC, (that LE had miraculously gotten through to CA and made her understand this) in the hopes of finding out where Caylee was. KC knew her mother too well though, KC had too many years of reaction from CA to fall for the "we forgive you" carp. Am I making any sense to anyone else?

I can't make up my mind which it is though. JMO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

How about Uncle Rick's theory? The party in December? I gather he heard about it from his Mom, who got it from CA.

Caylee was not fathered by a relative, because her DNA did not show the homozygous alleles. That's how one can recognize children that are the products of incest, in the absence of parental DNA. Her DNA was heterozygous.

RP Hasn't seen the A's since his marriage, and not much before that. The As have been isolated from the extended family for a long time, due to their enabling of KC's criminality.

RP only hears news of the As through their mother. hang out with them.

If KC has cousins, she doesn't hang with them.

LE may know stuff they have not told us.

Not starting a rumor. This is a discussion forum that examines the details contributing or surrounding a case. Because Caylee's bio remains a mystery people wonder about it. The father of Caylee could just as well be someone KC does know. It's not a given that he is a random stranger. KC, although she spread herself around, she wasn't very worldly. She stuck with her groups and familiar settings. She did not disappear from her groups - like go off a few days on business, etc.

Also the lawyer TL and last boyfriend of KC, TL, have the same initials. Can be confusing.

With respect, I'm not sure why incest and KC keeps coming up, when there is no evidence of same?

KC has enough male friends. All of them apear to be young, attractive (by her standards), partyers. Some are productive, some are not. None seem terribhly mature.

No evidence of a rich, older guy. No calls/texts/apparently no financial support, or LE would've found it.

As LE says, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one (Occam's Razor).

It may be that only Kio has the story, when she said she met the guy who fathered KC. One nighter, and he and KC weren't into eachother.

Or, maybe Uncle Rick was right, and it was a party.

But, whomever the father was, there is no evidence to implicate him, at all.

And, we likely don't want to start an ugly rumor, implicating an innocent (again!).

Meanwhile-- CK is correct. Anyone interested in discussing incest can find the thread in the PL.

Brini, Where is that - fancy terms - evidence? I've not seen that discussed/spelled out. I didn't know there was a broad type way to rule out blood related unions like the ones you describe.

RP = Ryan P. = best friend from grade school who was going to school in Jacksonville. Had been down in Orlando the weekend Caylee was last seen. Went to the beach with his family. KC said she'd come to his Aunt's house or something but never showed up. Initially he was interviewed over the phone by LE. He's the one CA told that KC's a sociopath. Sports Authority guy.

Too many RP's? You all think I meant Rick P. - no! That's a new angle though! At his wedding he notices KC is PG. He panics and is like, oh, , I should have stayed away from the niece last Turkey day. :bang: Plus Rick has a male kid and I can't think of his name - starts with an N.

KC has a bunch of cousins in Ohio. Just say'n.

I never saw any phone/text/im type communications going back as far as when KC would have discovered she was preggars.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I admit it, I briefly entertained the incest theory, that was until I read an account (albeit fictional) of a young female sociopath who made similar claims to illicit sympathy and to manipulate men she pursued romantically. It would not surprise me in the least if that were what Casey intended when she was feeding those lines to Jesse.

I never picked up the speculation of incest soley from KC. But since JG has mentioned it ? The Pschy of the family led to this type of thinking along with the lies/mystery surrounding the bio's identity. Incest can really screw a kid up. That is why I think it is a legitimate conversation.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Bold is mine. I have to soooo agree with you. Caylee did have toys. CA/GA overcompensated in this area. As has been discussed ad nauseum how most folks, grand folks, even us aunts and uncles have babysitters phone numbers and addresses, somehow this concept escaped the A's.
I too have followed this case since day 31 and the thought kept popping into my mind, Are we (the public) being scammed, this is while we thought Caylee was still missing and all were still searching but as more facts came out I came to realize a live Caylee was just not to be. CA/GA behavior was still odd and then reports about "Missing children" searches on the computer prior to Caylee being "missing". Then that jab in the gut again (scammed).

What is going on? Is this some kind of reality show being played on the public? What gives? Then Kidfinders and their shenanigans. I was thinking was this a fake missing child scam gone wrong? KC's first jail visit phone call speaking to her Mother, "You don't know my involvement?" Then the first jailhouse visit, KC said to CA/GA " I didn't tell them anything".

No, All is not Well Pink Panther. I suppose anything can be read into any of their statements, phone calls by now, we have analyzed them so much, but I remember my initial gut reaction was that of someone pizzing on my leg and telling me it's raining!JMHO.

Mind boggeling indeed. Which is why I can't clear the idea from my mind that one of KC's parents knew/know exactly what happened.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BTW, I had a big problem with a social worker who convinced all sociopathic or other Axis II females that they must have been raped or incestuously abused and had forgotten about it.

He did not hold the same theories with males, with the same bx and dx.

Then, he'd have the ALL females act out the "rape," so they'd remember it, and get "well." Which they didn't. .

Some sociopaths have been sexually abused. Some haven't.

Two of the most telling pieces of evidence against are:
1) KC has never been afraid of leaving Caylee around any male family member, and

2) In the A household, the males appear to be subordinate to the females. KC shows no fear or subordination to either of the A males.

I missed the part about KC leaving Caylee with male relatives.

George has stated that he hardly ever watched Caylee alone. And, although discussion regarding Lee and Lee's place has taken place - I've not really seen/heard evidence that Lee was a hands-on Uncle. He's a young male interested in his own pursuits (versus a married brother). Why would he be babysitting all the time? I don't know where that came from.

 

[tweety933]

Faily Psych Discussion......

Rick seemed pretty concerned about Casey being pregnant, and he hasn't spoken with or seen her since he got married, WTH?

Is this true? His son's name is Nate if I recall correctly....

I knew of someone once who was a grown married woman with teenage children of her own who was still being emotionally blackmailed into an incestuous relationship with her older brother, and avoided family get togethers as best she could, due to the fact that he would always isolate and molest her during such events.

What party was Rick P. talking about when discussing the possibility of Caylee's biological father? Was this a family party, or what?

I think Caylee's biological father is relevant as it goes to show Casey's state of mind concerning possible motive for killing Caylee.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Actually even KC didn't claim incest.

She said GA "abused" her (type of abuse not specified). She also said that LA "tried to touch her, once, in middle-school."

If, in the unlikely event that KC was telling the truth, for once, she never complained of full incest.

But she did say "I DIDN'T TELL". Tell what?

GA said, Everything will come out. What? Has everything come out? It's the secrecy behind these questions, that keeps feeding the pursuit of the answers to them.

Maybe everything isn't simple.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Maybe less than that! They are close to identifying all the wiring differences even now.

Maybe they will even identify a gene, at some point. ;-)

Also, remember some industries NEED sociopaths, or think they do. Military, CEOs, Intelligence (think: CIA), politics, finance (looks like TON of socios there )



BTW-- We already know, then, what's in the envelope. Since Caylee's father is not a relative, it can't be either GA or LA. and, LE's have already been announced. Of course it's not CA either. ;-)

Man, talk about starting rumors! KC's family is off limits (no discussions of incest as a possible factor) but it's okay to slam all of the special services of our country. :waitasec:

Is this a bit of overkill?

 

[tweety933]

Man, talk about starting rumors! Okay KC's family is off limits but let's totally slam all of the special services of our country. :waitasec:

Is this a bit of overkill?

This is the Family Psych discussion thread.....remind me again.....who's family is off limits?

I thought this thread was suppose to be about the Anthony Family, what am I missing, I didn't know that there was anything off limits.

Incest is by definition a family psych topic.....is it not?

 

[Brini]

Ok let me get this straight. We are now positive that Caylee is not a product of incest? B/c I will be happy to know this has been positively ruled out by LE. I knew LA was cleared, I just wasn't aware that reached to all other male family members.

Also I think that incest thread is gone in the PL, I haven't been able to find it for months. JMO

There's a LOT of stuff about hetero- vs homozygousity in DNA on the incest thread in the Parking Lot.

That's how they can tell if one is the product of incest with a first or second degree family member.

Even before the FBI ran LE's test, they knew to r/o incest JUST from Caylee's DNA.

According to a friend who's an agent, they went ahead and published the LE test because so many people were so into the incest idea, it was getting in the way of the actual case focus, which is the murder of a two-year old.

The Parking Lot.

Thanks!

 

[Brini]

This is the Family Psych discussion thread.....remind me again.....who's family is off limits?

I thought this thread was suppose to be about the Anthony Family, what am I missing, I didn't know that there was anything off limits.

Incest is by definition a family psych topic.....is it not?

The A family is within limits.

The incest topic was sent to the Parking Lot by the mods mon ths ago.

This because the Parking Lot is members, only. And, an innocent was being falsely accused.

But, there's a great thread in the Parking Lot with a ton of stuff on it.

 

[Brini]

But she did say "I DIDN'T TELL". Tell what?

GA said, Everything will come out. What? Has everything come out? It's the secrecy behind these questions, that keeps feeding the pursuit of the answers to them.

Maybe everything isn't simple.

Lemme see, a promiscuous criminal who killed her kid, and hid the body?

Yeah.. gotta be incest. Heck with the DNA! Couldn't be anything else.

 

[Brini]

Man, talk about starting rumors! Okay KC's family is off limits but let's totally slam all of the special services of our country. :waitasec:

Is this a bit of overkill?

Discuss it with the mods. They are the ones who sent the thread to the PR.

And, what's wrong with the PR?

 

[Brini]

Faily Psych Discussion......

Rick seemed pretty concerned about Casey being pregnant, and he hasn't spoken with or seen her since he got married, WTH?

Is this true? His son's name is Nate if I recall correctly....

I knew of someone once who was a grown married woman with teenage children of her own who was still being emotionally blackmailed into an incestuous relationship with her older brother, and avoided family get togethers as best she could, due to the fact that he would always isolate and molest her during such events.

What party was Rick P. talking about when discussing the possibility of Caylee's biological father? Was this a family party, or what?

I think Caylee's biological father is relevant as it goes to show Casey's state of mind concerning possible motive for killing Caylee.

A Christmas party in early December, before Caylee was born. He heard about it from his Mom, who heard about it from CA. One of KC's friends parties.

 

[Brini]

Man, talk about starting rumors! Okay KC's family is off limits but let's totally slam all of the special services of our country. :waitasec:

Is this a bit of overkill?

As far as we know, the only special services that KC was with were a couple of soldiers. All the special services?

 

[Brini]

Faily Psych Discussion......

Rick seemed pretty concerned about Casey being pregnant, and he hasn't spoken with or seen her since he got married, WTH?

Is this true? His son's name is Nate if I recall correctly....

I knew of someone once who was a grown married woman with teenage children of her own who was still being emotionally blackmailed into an incestuous relationship with her older brother, and avoided family get togethers as best she could, due to the fact that he would always isolate and molest her during such events.

What party was Rick P. talking about when discussing the possibility of Caylee's biological father? Was this a family party, or what?

I think Caylee's biological father is relevant as it goes to show Casey's state of mind concerning possible motive for killing Caylee.

The whole extended family was concerned.

KC showed up seven months pregnant at RP's wedding.

She had had NO prenatal care, and she and CA were insisting that she had "female problems" amd had "put on some weight" and was not pregnant. In fact, both were insisting that KC was still a virgin.

This is all in RP's posts to this w/s, BTW.

The family confronted, and told KC and CA that KC had better get to an OB-GYN mighty quick, because she was either very pregnant or likely to have a serious OB problem.

CA had a fit, and has not spoken to her family, except her mother, since.

There was already trouble in the family over CA's enabling of KC's criminality. The seven month pregnancy with no prenatal care was the last straw.

So, right! RP and his brothers' families have not spoken to CA and KC since the wedding. By CA's choice.

RP emailed CA a couple of times. CA rejected the attempt at contact.

It looks to me like the family is in the right-- not quilty.

LE thinks they have the motive, BTW.

 

[tweety933]

Interesting about the mitochondrial DNA excluding any first or second degree relatives as being paternally related!

The only relevance I can see is the "state of mind" of Casey concerning Caylee's biological father and how that may or may not have been related to motive. The prosecution doesn't really need a motive to prove anything, really!

I think the identification of Caylee's biological father has been a sore subject since before she was even born (beginning with the lies about pregnancy at Ricks wedding)! WHOMever HE was, the family did NOT want him to know about it. What in the world would keep a family wanting to keep that a "secret"? I'll bet they had a really good story they were going to tell Caylee when she inquired about who her daddy is, Inquiring minds want to know. The Psych implications of not knowing who your daddy is, is quite complex. Now Caylee will never have to wonder who her daddy is, she KNOWS NOW! IMO

I sure hope that he doesn't find out now, after what has happened to Caylee, how sad that would be for him. NO need to mess with his Psyche after the fact, I can see a need to keep it a secret NOW.