Caylee's "Mama" Doll

[BondJamesBond]

I have not read through this whole thread yet, but a thought occurred to me. If it has been mentioned before, I apologize..... I was thinking that maybe the reason the pictures of Caylee's doll "mama", are because IF Caylee was in the trunk, and maybe with her doll, maybe there may be imprints in the trunk that may not match Caylee, but maybe her doll, and that is why they had the pictures of the doll face down? Maybe it is a stupid thought, but it would take some force, (Caylee weighing down on her doll in the trunk ), to make an impression... Just a thought...

Good, creative thinking, Jamie. Nothing wrong w/ that at all, IMHO.

 

[Kristie]

The doll with the peach colored body is labeled "known doll" also. The other one with the white cloth body just has a number assigned to it.

Oh, yeah, I agree the doll looks odd.

Anyone know why? Does that mean anything?

There is a photo of Caylee's bed from Cindy's depo (attached) and there appears to be a padded cloth doll body without a head sitting on the upper right corner of the bed. I always wondered what this was and now think that the "known doll" must fit inside? Kristie

 

[LambChop]

The "Known Doll" was one that LE purchased to compare in their testing. That is why there are two dolls. One was Caylee's, the other was purchased by LE.

 

[AZlawyer]

Bumping to connect with Fiber Analysis thread discussion.

Black wool fibers found only on Mama Doll and on the 3 pieces of duct tape found on Caylee's skull.

Mama Doll found in the car naked, with traces of chloroform. IIRC, no doll clothes were ever found in the car. Could Mama Doll have been wearing something black wool soaked in chloroform that was later discarded?

 

[Star12]

Bumping to connect with Fiber Analysis thread discussion.

Black wool fibers found only on Mama Doll and on the 3 pieces of duct tape found on Caylee's skull.

Mama Doll found in the car naked, with traces of chloroform. IIRC, no doll clothes were ever found in the car. Could Mama Doll have been wearing something black wool soaked in chloroform that was later discarded?

Oh, AZ, that just gives me the shibbers to think of such a diabolical thought.

 

[beach]

Bumping to connect with Fiber Analysis thread discussion.

Black wool fibers found only on Mama Doll and on the 3 pieces of duct tape found on Caylee's skull.

Mama Doll found in the car naked, with traces of chloroform. IIRC, no doll clothes were ever found in the car. Could Mama Doll have been wearing something black wool soaked in chloroform that was later discarded?

BBM

There was trace evidence of chloroform on Mama Doll???

I was not aware of that...

Whoa.

....going to re-read this thread now.

 

[AZlawyer]

BBM

There was trace evidence of chloroform on Mama Doll???

I was not aware of that...

Whoa.

....going to re-read this thread now.

Yes, the conclusion I believe was "possible residues" of chloroform. P. 1311 of this giant document shows that a vial with a cutting from the doll, plus water, resulted in a positive result for chloroform. They also tested a "known doll" obtained from the manufacturer, to make sure that the chloroform wasn't naturally present in the doll.

However, p. 1342 shows that they were unable to confirm the presence of chloroform with the second test--so if there was any chloroform on the doll, it was only a trace amount.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21540603/detail.html

So...maybe a black wool thing with chloroform worn on top of Mama Doll's normal pink pajamas, thus somewhat protecting Mama Doll from the chloroform? And then both the wool thing and the pajamas were tossed somewhere?

 

[RR0004]

Yes, the conclusion I believe was "possible residues" of chloroform. P. 1311 of this giant document shows that a vial with a cutting from the doll, plus water, resulted in a positive result for chloroform. They also tested a "known doll" obtained from the manufacturer, to make sure that the chloroform wasn't naturally present in the doll.

However, p. 1342 shows that they were unable to confirm the presence of chloroform with the second test--so if there was any chloroform on the doll, it was only a trace amount.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21540603/detail.html

So...maybe a black wool thing with chloroform worn on top of Mama Doll's normal pink pajamas, thus somewhat protecting Mama Doll from the chloroform? And then both the wool thing and the pajamas were tossed somewhere?

...and they haven't even found the clothes yet?

 

[Star12]

...and they haven't even found the clothes yet?

I STILL can't figure out just what KC could have been meaning about that statement. Did maybe someone say that there were no clothing found with her? That she was naked? That...what? Whatever, it surely seemed to affect her.

 

[Intermezzo]

Bumping to connect with Fiber Analysis thread discussion.

Black wool fibers found only on Mama Doll and on the 3 pieces of duct tape found on Caylee's skull.

Mama Doll found in the car naked, with traces of chloroform. IIRC, no doll clothes were ever found in the car. Could Mama Doll have been wearing something black wool soaked in chloroform that was later discarded?

WHOA

 

[Intermezzo]

Bumping to connect with Fiber Analysis thread discussion.

Black wool fibers found only on Mama Doll and on the 3 pieces of duct tape found on Caylee's skull.

Mama Doll found in the car naked, with traces of chloroform. IIRC, no doll clothes were ever found in the car. Could Mama Doll have been wearing something black wool soaked in chloroform that was later discarded?

WHOA

 

[steadychick]

Regarding the black wool fibers on both the doll and the duct tape -- I kept thinking something large like a blanket, seat covers, wool pants, but it could have been something smaller. Maybe we need to scour back through all the pictures

How about a scarf or hat? Kids sometime make their own doll clothes by wrapping such items around the toys. Or a black scarf with chloroform used to wrap around caylee's head (sorry)?

Some stuffed animals have a natural wool roving type material that gives them a fuzzy realistic appearance. Some high end bears and animals, ie Steif, are made of a wool material called mohair -- could be short or long and curly. Did Caylee have any such bears that someone special would have given her as a collectible?

Another thought is some sort of "felted wool" item. These have been very popular in the past few years. The item is knitted or crocheted with wool yarn, and then washed and deliberately shrunk to tighten up the fibers. This could be an item of clothing, a purse, a bag, a coinpurse, even a necklace or cuff type bracelet.

Something like this had to come in contact with both Caylee and the doll. Anyone remember seeing anything like this?

 

[ynotdivein]

Another thought is some sort of "felted wool" item. These have been very popular in the past few years. The item is knitted or crocheted with wool yarn, and then washed and deliberately shrunk to tighten up the fibers. This could be an item of clothing, a purse, a bag, a coinpurse, even a necklace or cuff type bracelet.

Something like this had to come in contact with both Caylee and the doll. Anyone remember seeing anything like this?

Wonder what the "black bracelet" that KC apparently got for Lee was made of? Cindy and Mallory both mention it and ask KC where she got it. Wonder if this was a type of bracelet KC was familiar with and maybe wore herself, before thinking to get one for Lee as a type of Caylee memorial (which is what I assume it was based on Cindy and Mallory's references to it).

 

[BondJamesBond]

Just for grins.

IIRC, Casey was into crafts as I believe Tracy M and some of the mat'ls recovered in the Dec '08 would attest.

Not that I see Casey doing any craftwork expressly for the purpose of doing Caylee in. But thinking along the lines that AZ has offered up...and tossing in that IF Casey applied a heart sticker to the duct tape that she might've retrieved that sticker from a box of craft supplies that contained some black wool item that simply had to be handled to get to the heart sticker OR was somehow involved in the act itself (per AZ's scenario). :waitasec:

 

[BondJamesBond]

P.S. I realize now my last post belongs on the Fiber Analysis thread and will move it later PM :bang:

 

[beach]

So...maybe a black wool thing with chloroform worn on top of Mama Doll's normal pink pajamas, thus somewhat protecting Mama Doll from the chloroform? And then both the wool thing and the pajamas were tossed somewhere?

This is what I find most plausible, with what we know so far.

I imagine some black wool item retrieved from the same dresser that contained the WTP blanket, used as a chloroform rag. Maybe it is as simple as Caylee was holding Mama doll as the cholorform was administered. Black wool fibers and traces of chloroform could have been transferred to Mama doll that way.

 

[steadychick]

Wonder what the "black bracelet" that KC apparently got for Lee was made of? Cindy and Mallory both mention it and ask KC where she got it. Wonder if this was a type of bracelet KC was familiar with and maybe wore herself, before thinking to get one for Lee as a type of Caylee memorial (which is what I assume it was based on Cindy and Mallory's references to it).

Been looking through pictures. Here is the black bracelet http://media.photobucket.com/image/...ss/LeeZenaidadepocremationbracelet.jpg?o=1131

 

[beach]

P.S. I realize now my last post belongs on the Fiber Analysis thread and will move it later PM :bang:

:loser:

Or, you could just theorize that she was being crafty making Mama doll a new sweater and leave it here.

nah...nevermind. I can't see KC knitting doll clothes. :floorlaugh:


eta: please feel free to delete this smart aleck post when/if you move yours. lol

 

[beach]

Yes, the conclusion I believe was "possible residues" of chloroform. P. 1311 of this giant document shows that a vial with a cutting from the doll, plus water, resulted in a positive result for chloroform. They also tested a "known doll" obtained from the manufacturer, to make sure that the chloroform wasn't naturally present in the doll.

However, p. 1342 shows that they were unable to confirm the presence of chloroform with the second test--so if there was any chloroform on the doll, it was only a trace amount.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21540603/detail.html

So...maybe a black wool thing with chloroform worn on top of Mama Doll's normal pink pajamas, thus somewhat protecting Mama Doll from the chloroform? And then both the wool thing and the pajamas were tossed somewhere?

I understand enough Chemistry to know the CHCl3 is the chloroform, but I really don't know how to interpret the results....the below attachment is pg. 1332 (from that same huge doc) and the results are listed with pass/fail options. All results appear to be "Pass". Does this mean NO chloroform was present?

 

[Harmony 2]

I wasn't sure if this went on the fiber thread or here.

This is the fiber information on the Mama doll Q244:

page 9778 of the 1405 page doc