Christmas Morning Picture of Burke and JB...

[Toltec]

Children have accidents so JonBenet's wouldn't be unusual. What is unusual is the Monday morning visits to the school nurse. Why would JonBenet see the school nurse when she could have easily told her mother she was ill? It just doesn't fit into JonBenet's personality that she could not tell her own mother she was not feeling well.

The timing of the visits...Mondays, seems suspicious to me. What happened over those weekends that JonBenet felt she needed to seek help from someone other than her parents? Was it something she felt she could not tell Patsy or John? Were Patsy or John somehow involved in JonBenet's seeking outside treatment?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I've often wondered if JonBenet's Monday visits to the school nurse weren't related to her issue with staying dry. Perhaps she needed dry underwear, or perhaps she needed help with the "frequent infections that were hard to clear up" that Patsy told Pam Griffin about in PMPT. She said they were due to JB "always being in wet underwear."

Now how long does one have to be exposed to wetness in order for an infection that requires treatment to clear up to form? Why on earth would Patsy take Beuf's word for it that such a situation was normal for a 6 year old girl and not take JonBenet to a specialist? Why should a child even have to deal with something like that, when her wealthy, well-insured parents have every opportunity to address the condition with a specialist?

Personally, and this may be too harsh, but I consider Patsy's failure to make JonBenet's incontinence issue more important to address rather dismiss as abuse by neglect on Patsy's part. There is absolutely no way JonBenet could have possibly enjoyed having to endure such a problem and no reason that she should have had to. I guarantee you that Patsy would not have tolerated the same condition on herself without seeking the opinion of a specialist, just taking the internist's word for it that it was normal and "no big deal."

 

[DeeDee249]

I wonder if PR made the full extent of JBR's incontinence known to her pediatrician? I know several moms who, when their kids were in that 2-8 year old age bracket, kept a waterproof sheet on their beds because nighttime wetting was still an issue, and yes, they were told it was nothing to worry about and the child would outgrow it. (they did)
BUT- in JBR's case, it was much more than nighttime accidents. Overnight accidents are usually wetting, not soiling, for the most part in kids over 3. But for a formerly completely toilet-trained child to resume urinating and defecating IN HER CLOTHES in the daytime, as well as an night indictes a severe emotional problem. Usually, this problem is sexual abuse of the child by a family member, but there can be other causes.
While many pediatricians would not see the overnight issues as a problem, I know of NO pediatrician who would think the daytime wetting/soiling is "nothing to worry about". They would try to probe and see what the home situation is, or they would recommend a specialst.
The reason for her visits to the school nurse on several Monday mornings are very suspect to me. First, because the school would not make them available to LE IN THE CASE WHERE THE CHILD HAS BEEN MURDERED!!!
But also because I'd like to know if JBR visited the nurse because she had vaginal pain or some other internal discomfort. If there ever was anal penetration, the sphincter could be stretched (causing inability to "hold" it till reaching a toilet) and/or it could be painful to defecate. So the child holds it so long that they cannot hold it any longer and they have an "accident".
Sexual abuse is often the first thing a person trained in these matters would suspect when a child of that age (who was previously trained) regresses in their toileting.

 

[elannia]

From Patsy's 1998 Interview...

15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
16 TOM HANEY: Well, this photo 12OTET8 was on
17 your roll of file in your camera. And on the
18 same roll is the next photo, a Christmas morning
19 photo of the kids.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes). Oh, God.
21 TOM HANEY: Before we, before we talk too
22 much about the next photo, if you can --
23 TRIP DeMUTH: You want to just take that
24 out for a minute?
25 TOM HANEY: Let's talk still about the
0528
1 120TET. Like I say, this was on your role of
2 film and it's not exactly the same photograph
3 that was taken by the police.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
5 TOM HANEY: But it's, it's, it shows --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
7 TOM HANEY: -- pretty much, I guess, or can
8 you tell me when that would have been taken?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue why
10 anybody would take a picture like that. I don't
11 know (inaudible). Who took the picture?
12 TOM HANEY: Well, it's on your roll --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: It's on my --
14 TOM HANEY: -- of film on your camera.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.

I wonder what this picture was of? What did she mean by "I don't have a clue why anyone would take a picture like that"? I guess that the "intruder" must have snapped that picture of Burke and JB. He must have found Patsy's camera, when he was looking for either the flashlight, or the night vision goggles, and decided to snap a couple of pictures while he was at it.

Bumping this thread... has anyone heard anything more about what was in the photo?

 

[CorallaroC]

Bumping this thread... has anyone heard anything more about what was in the photo?

Here is a larger excerpt from the June 23, 1998 interview - RedBBM - hope this helps
(full interview transcript at this link at ACR - http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm)

25 TOM HANEY: Let's talk still about the
0528
1 120TET. Like I say, this was on your role of
2 film and it's not exactly the same photograph
3 that was taken by the police.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
5 TOM HANEY: But it's, it's, it shows --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
7 TOM HANEY: -- pretty much, I guess, or can
8 you tell me when that would have been taken?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue why
10 anybody would take a picture like that. I don't
11 know (inaudible). Who took the picture?
12 TOM HANEY: Well, it's on your roll --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: It's on my --
14 TOM HANEY: -- of film on your camera.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
16 TOM HANEY: And this legal pad that you --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
18 TOM HANEY: -- identified --
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: -- do you know when that would
21 have been in that position?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. So this, this was taken
23 before photo one was?
24 TOM HANEY: Before the police photos.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, okay. I don't know
0529
1 when this was taken, or why it was taken. I
2 mean, it's nothing.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recognize that pad, I
4 know it's (inaudible) photo?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but we had a lot of
6 those around. There was a picture in another
7 one. I think.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes)
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I bought like those Office
10 Depot's or Office Max or whatever they are and I
11 usually kept a bunch of them, you know, kept
12 them over here, right around here in the
13 kitchen.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: By the telephone?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but, you know, they
16 float all over.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: So it wouldn't have been
18 unusual to be where it is?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No. Gosh.
20 TOM HANEY: Just a second, okay?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
22 TOM HANEY: So would this particular note
23 pad be, belong to somebody in particular or --
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, not necessarily.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Now, what about the bag, the
0530
1 plastic bag?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: This one?
3 TRIP DeMUTH: No.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: This one?
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know, I can't
7 tell what's in there, what it is.
8 TOM HANEY: Try, I don't know if that
9 helps?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Do you remember what was in
11 that one?
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Remember we talked about a
13 plastic bag in photo 52.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I mean, I had plastic
15 bags getting some things ready to go to the
16 lake.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, I was packing it
19 kind of on the landing up there.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: And then we saw one down at
22 the bottom of the stairs.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
24 PATSY RAMSEY: And you said that picture
25 was taken early that morning.
0531
1 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: So that could have -- that
3 could have been the bag with the clothes going
4 to the lake and I could have brought it down and
5 saw the note, dropped the bag. But if this was
6 taken before that, then I don't know what's in
7 that bag. I don't know what that is. I can't
8 tell. I don't know.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know what was in
11 that one, either. I can't tell what that is.
12 It looks like there's writing on that, red.
13 TOM HANEY: Do you remember taking that
14 photograph?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
16 TOM HANEY: Did you take photographs
17 Christmas morning?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: I think we took some stills,
19 yeah.
20 TOM HANEY: Okay.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Could have been taken of the
22 kids unwrapping and things like that.
23 TOM HANEY: Did you take the photos or --
24 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably took some, John
25 probably took some.
0532
1 TOM HANEY: Did the kids take any?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. Oh, I don't
3 know. That just seems really weird, unless
4 somebody was trying to get rid of film and just
5 (indicating) clicked anything. I can't imagine
6 why you just take a pictures of a messy hallway.
7 TOM HANEY: Okay.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Did you want to see me?
9 TRIP DeMUTH: That's a good point.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: What is it? There's
11 smudges.
12 MR. ARMISTEAD: See what I'm saying?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
14 What could that be?
15 TOM HANEY: Just for the record, Ellis has
16 pointed out some black smudges on the center
17 post of the spiral staircase.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh, uh-huh (yes). That
19 looks strange, though.
20 TOM HANEY: Okay. And just real briefly,
21 this was, is 91KKY23, and this would have been
22 taken Christmas morning and that's where the
23 children would have been dressed that morning
24 and had slept Christmas Eve.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: And the main reason we wanted
0533
1 to show you that, actually you've already
2 answered the question, early on we saw the pink
3 top in the bed, right?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nods head in the
5 affirmative.)
6 TRIP DeMUTH: And you had remembered her
7 wearing that.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I would like to have a copy
9 of that sometime.
10 TOM HANEY: Your call.
11 MR. BURKE: I think we should break.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: I'll get you a copy of that.
13 TOM HANEY: It's 12:01 and we'll go off the
14 tape.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Here is a larger excerpt from the June 23, 1998 interview - RedBBM - hope this helps
(full interview transcript at this link at ACR - http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm)

25 TOM HANEY: Let's talk still about the
0528
1 120TET. Like I say, this was on your role of
2 film and it's not exactly the same photograph
3 that was taken by the police.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
5 TOM HANEY: But it's, it's, it shows --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
7 TOM HANEY: -- pretty much, I guess, or can
8 you tell me when that would have been taken?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue why
10 anybody would take a picture like that. I don't
11 know (inaudible). Who took the picture?
12 TOM HANEY: Well, it's on your roll --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: It's on my --
14 TOM HANEY: -- of film on your camera.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
16 TOM HANEY: And this legal pad that you --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
18 TOM HANEY: -- identified --
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: -- do you know when that would
21 have been in that position?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. So this, this was taken
23 before photo one was?
24 TOM HANEY: Before the police photos.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, okay. I don't know
0529
1 when this was taken, or why it was taken. I
2 mean, it's nothing.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recognize that pad, I
4 know it's (inaudible) photo?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but we had a lot of
6 those around. There was a picture in another
7 one. I think.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes)
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I bought like those Office
10 Depot's or Office Max or whatever they are and I
11 usually kept a bunch of them, you know, kept
12 them over here, right around here in the
13 kitchen.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: By the telephone?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but, you know, they
16 float all over.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: So it wouldn't have been
18 unusual to be where it is?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No. Gosh.
20 TOM HANEY: Just a second, okay?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
22 TOM HANEY: So would this particular note
23 pad be, belong to somebody in particular or --
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, not necessarily.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Now, what about the bag, the
0530
1 plastic bag?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: This one?
3 TRIP DeMUTH: No.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: This one?
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know, I can't
7 tell what's in there, what it is.
8 TOM HANEY: Try, I don't know if that
9 helps?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Do you remember what was in
11 that one?
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Remember we talked about a
13 plastic bag in photo 52.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I mean, I had plastic
15 bags getting some things ready to go to the
16 lake.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, I was packing it
19 kind of on the landing up there.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: And then we saw one down at
22 the bottom of the stairs.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
24 PATSY RAMSEY: And you said that picture
25 was taken early that morning.
0531
1 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: So that could have -- that
3 could have been the bag with the clothes going
4 to the lake and I could have brought it down and
5 saw the note, dropped the bag. But if this was
6 taken before that, then I don't know what's in
7 that bag. I don't know what that is. I can't
8 tell. I don't know.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know what was in
11 that one, either. I can't tell what that is.
12 It looks like there's writing on that, red.
13 TOM HANEY: Do you remember taking that
14 photograph?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
16 TOM HANEY: Did you take photographs
17 Christmas morning?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: I think we took some stills,
19 yeah.
20 TOM HANEY: Okay.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Could have been taken of the
22 kids unwrapping and things like that.
23 TOM HANEY: Did you take the photos or --
24 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably took some, John
25 probably took some.
0532
1 TOM HANEY: Did the kids take any?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. Oh, I don't
3 know. That just seems really weird, unless
4 somebody was trying to get rid of film and just
5 (indicating) clicked anything. I can't imagine
6 why you just take a pictures of a messy hallway.
7 TOM HANEY: Okay.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Did you want to see me?
9 TRIP DeMUTH: That's a good point.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: What is it? There's
11 smudges.
12 MR. ARMISTEAD: See what I'm saying?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
14 What could that be?
15 TOM HANEY: Just for the record, Ellis has
16 pointed out some black smudges on the center
17 post of the spiral staircase.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh, uh-huh (yes). That
19 looks strange, though.
20 TOM HANEY: Okay. And just real briefly,
21 this was, is 91KKY23, and this would have been
22 taken Christmas morning and that's where the
23 children would have been dressed that morning
24 and had slept Christmas Eve.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: And the main reason we wanted
0533
1 to show you that, actually you've already
2 answered the question, early on we saw the pink
3 top in the bed, right?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nods head in the
5 affirmative.)
6 TRIP DeMUTH: And you had remembered her
7 wearing that.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I would like to have a copy
9 of that sometime.
10 TOM HANEY: Your call.
11 MR. BURKE: I think we should break.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: I'll get you a copy of that.
13 TOM HANEY: It's 12:01 and we'll go off the
14 tape.

I wonder why this picture has never been released.

 

[KKazoo87]

I can't recall which thread it was but I believe it's been said that the pictures of the hallway (maybe right by the bottom of the staircase) were the last few pictures on the roll of film from John Ramsey's camera. Him or someone else snapped the last few in a hurry so they could to send the film to be developed. I also think something in the picture was slightly different than it appears in the police photographs but I don't think it's been decided what..kind of sounds like the notepad from the interrogation above.

ETA (and laughing at myself) it's this thread. Page three is what I was recalling but I don't think it's ever been determined for sure what the picturen showed. The notepad has my vote though.

 

[InstantProof]

Sounds to me like the notepad is out somewhere. It was found put away, wasn't it? An intruder isn't going to put it away if they found it out.

 

[andreww]

Sounds to me like the notepad is out somewhere. It was found put away, wasn't it? An intruder isn't going to put it away if they found it out.

And how would an intruder know where to put it "away" if it was never "away" when he found it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[anne11]

Respectfully snipped from Toltec's post from 2007 i think, It was John who finished the roll of film in the hallway, snapping away randomly. He managed to get a shot of the scarf on the wet bar and a note pad on the hallway table.

 

[johnjay]

Respectfully snipped from Toltec's post from 2007 i think, It was John who finished the roll of film in the hallway, snapping away randomly. He managed to get a shot of the scarf on the wet bar and a note pad on the hallway table.

What is the significance of the scarf?

 

[anne11]

I think they were trying to find the source of some the crime scene fibers. it was either JR's scarf that was a gift from his daughter Beth or one PR had bought to give as a christmas gift

 

[SuzDuJour]

But why would Patsy's response be "Oh God", and "Why would anyone take a picture like that"? Odd response to a scarf.

 

[tml]

Hi Tea,
In her interview though, they never said what the picture was of, and I believe that her reaction wasn't one of someone that had just been shown a picture of a scarf in the butler kitchen area. (I could be wrong though).

When I read this I had a weird thought...what if it was a photo showing something that was removed from the scene by the time police were there, taken in a different context (in this case to finish the roll), one in which a scarf laying on a chair is meaningless...except now, it's not, because the scarf was somehow part of JB's death. I know there is still speculation as to what was actually used to choke JB - rope twisted around a paintbrush stick, JB's turtleneck twisted around and pulled against her... - but what if it was a scarf?

Just a thought that popped up while browsing...I can't imagine why her reaction would be what it was for something more overtly connected to JB's molestation or murder...in that case I would expect something more over the top. This reaction is more like an omg-I-completely-forgot-about-that and now what type of thing...and it seems genuine, to me indicating that whatever the photo shows, she really was surprised to see it there, either because someone else took the photo, or because she took a photo of something completely innocuous prior to JB's death, forgot (because it wouldn't have mattered at all at that point), and then later, when the scarf or whatever was used during the murder, got rid of it, but forgot about the photo?

 

[UKGuy]

I wonder why this picture has never been released.

OliviaG1996,

Interesting post. Patsy is all over the store in this interview, note how she sidesteps the pad question regarding ownership:

22 TOM HANEY: So would this particular note
23 pad be, belong to somebody in particular or --
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, not necessarily.

That is not an outright no.

DeMuth takes the opportunity to pin PR down on JonBenet's bed clothing.

1 to show you that, actually you've already
2 answered the question, early on we saw the pink
3 top in the bed, right?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nods head in the
5 affirmative.)
6 TRIP DeMUTH: And you had remembered her
7 wearing that.

Most likely because at some future point the missing pink bottoms would be raised as an issue, i.e. compare with white long-johns and the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown?

.

 

[CircuitGuy]

Here is my pure speculation based only on the text, which I've only seen posted here. I don't actually know anything at all. I'm just reading the transcript posted in this thread.

16 TOM HANEY: Well, this photo 12OTET8 was on
17 your roll of file in your camera. And on the
18 same roll is the next photo, a Christmas morning (less than 24 hrs before the crime)
19 photo of the kids.
(Suppose photo shows the pad was sitting out that morning but had been put away when the police photographed the area 24 hrs later)
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes). Oh, God.
(snip)
1 Like I say, this was on your role of
2 film and it's not exactly the same photograph
3 that was taken by the police.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
5 TOM HANEY: But it's, it's, it shows -- (the pad left out in this photo but not the morning you found the note)
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
7 TOM HANEY: -- pretty much, I guess, or can
8 you tell me when that would have been taken?
(They want to work out when it might have been put away.)
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue why
10 anybody would take a picture like that. I don't
11 know (inaudible). Who took the picture?
(PR says she doesn't know. Maybe she doesn't. She asks why and who as if to formulate an answer to when. That's logical, but it also suggests maybe she's dismayed someone took a potentially incriminating photo.)
12 TOM HANEY: Well, it's on your roll --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: It's on my --
14 TOM HANEY: -- of film on your camera.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
(Giving simple answers like "I don't know" and not speculating is what lawyers tell you to do for a deposition.If she were innocent and felt like the police hadn't already decided she did it, I would expect her to speculate and try to help the police narrow down a time frame. OTOH, this is a deposition where lawyers urge suspects to stick to the facts.)
16 TOM HANEY: And this legal pad that you --
(...that you said you kept near where the police found it.)
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
18 TOM HANEY: -- identified --
(He notes she identified it so there can be no confusion if they need to use this in court.)
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: -- do you know when that would
21 have been in that position?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. So this, this was taken
23 before photo one was?
(Because if somehow this were taken later, maybe the intruder found it where she keeps it, wrote the letter, and then just left it lying there. Or maybe someone else put it there.)
24 TOM HANEY: Before the police photos.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, okay. I don't know
0529
1 when this was taken, or why it was taken. I
2 mean, it's nothing.
(It's as if she's thinking, "Someone could have innocently put it away on Christmas before the intruder came. Where not even clear when that photo was taken. It looks bad, but it doesn't prove anything.")
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recognize that pad, I
4 know it's (inaudible) photo?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but we had a lot of
6 those around. There was a picture in another
7 one. I think.
(She offers that this might not be the pad the RN pages came from. It looks bad that the pad appears in the picture but was found put away after the RN writer used it. She needs to minimize this.)​

So to my unknowledgeable reading, it sounds like they're hoping to find how that pad got moved and possibly find something incriminating. PR's answers are consistent with it looking bad, but she doesn't say anything damning. As she says, "it's nothing". It looks kind of suspicious but doesn't prove anything.

 

[singularity]

Throw me in with the group who believes different photos are being discussed there and the first one sounds ominous. She also gets a free pass on that but no shock there. They had a stack of those to hand to Patsy during the entire interview.

 

[UKGuy]

Here is my pure speculation based only on the text, which I've only seen posted here. I don't actually know anything at all. I'm just reading the transcript posted in this thread.

16 TOM HANEY: Well, this photo 12OTET8 was on
17 your roll of file in your camera. And on the
18 same roll is the next photo, a Christmas morning (less than 24 hrs before the crime)
19 photo of the kids.
(Suppose photo shows the pad was sitting out that morning but had been put away when the police photographed the area 24 hrs later)
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes). Oh, God.
(snip)
1 Like I say, this was on your role of
2 film and it's not exactly the same photograph
3 that was taken by the police.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
5 TOM HANEY: But it's, it's, it shows -- (the pad left out in this photo but not the morning you found the note)
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
7 TOM HANEY: -- pretty much, I guess, or can
8 you tell me when that would have been taken?
(They want to work out when it might have been put away.)
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue why
10 anybody would take a picture like that. I don't
11 know (inaudible). Who took the picture?
(PR says she doesn't know. Maybe she doesn't. She asks why and who as if to formulate an answer to when. That's logical, but it also suggests maybe she's dismayed someone took a potentially incriminating photo.)
12 TOM HANEY: Well, it's on your roll --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: It's on my --
14 TOM HANEY: -- of film on your camera.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
(Giving simple answers like "I don't know" and not speculating is what lawyers tell you to do for a deposition.If she were innocent and felt like the police hadn't already decided she did it, I would expect her to speculate and try to help the police narrow down a time frame. OTOH, this is a deposition where lawyers urge suspects to stick to the facts.)
16 TOM HANEY: And this legal pad that you --
(...that you said you kept near where the police found it.)
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
18 TOM HANEY: -- identified --
(He notes she identified it so there can be no confusion if they need to use this in court.)
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: -- do you know when that would
21 have been in that position?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. So this, this was taken
23 before photo one was?
(Because if somehow this were taken later, maybe the intruder found it where she keeps it, wrote the letter, and then just left it lying there. Or maybe someone else put it there.)
24 TOM HANEY: Before the police photos.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, okay. I don't know
0529
1 when this was taken, or why it was taken. I
2 mean, it's nothing.
(It's as if she's thinking, "Someone could have innocently put it away on Christmas before the intruder came. Where not even clear when that photo was taken. It looks bad, but it doesn't prove anything.")
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recognize that pad, I
4 know it's (inaudible) photo?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but we had a lot of
6 those around. There was a picture in another
7 one. I think.
(She offers that this might not be the pad the RN pages came from. It looks bad that the pad appears in the picture but was found put away after the RN writer used it. She needs to minimize this.)​

So to my unknowledgeable reading, it sounds like they're hoping to find how that pad got moved and possibly find something incriminating. PR's answers are consistent with it looking bad, but she doesn't say anything damning. As she says, "it's nothing". It looks kind of suspicious but doesn't prove anything.

CircuitGuy,
There is something going on here since I think the R's have next to no Christmas photos to talk about about, so why does someone point and shoot at the referenced objects in the photos?

Its as if fake evidence is being generated, i.e. pictures on a camera that might had others before the roll was removed?

Also the investigators will know if its the pad used to author the RN since impressions will be left on underlying pages.

That's what I think the investigators are trying to establish, i.e. fabrication of a crime-scene?

.

 

[singularity]

CircuitGuy, There is something going on here since I think the R's have next to no Christmas photos to talk about about, so why does someone point and shoot at the referenced objects in the photos? Its as if fake evidence is being generated, i.e. pictures on a camera that might had others before the roll was removed? Also the investigators will know if its the pad used to author the RN since impressions will be left on underlying pages. That's what I think the investigators are trying to establish, i.e. fabrication of a crime-scene? .

Interesting observation. When reading the transcripts I also wondered if such a scenario was really possible. What are the chances of John taking those few pictures to finish the roll and they just happen to have certain items in them. These were supposed to just be random shots. Then there's these pictures taken earlier in the roll showing the pad in such a place that even LE can pick up on it. To even entertain the idea of someone fabricating evidence to this degree requires premeditation. This throws BDI out the window instantly. It would place certain PDI theories on shaky ground as well. It moves JDI to the top of the list and would also allow for the possiblilty of that outlandish PDI theory that she premeditated her murder for some whacky religious sacrifice or whatever which never passed my smell test. These interviews were a massive opportunity wasted. I wish the FBI could have asked these questions. I never would have moved on from this issue until she gives a legitimate explanation for any of these photographs. Saying "its nothing", "I don't know",etc. doesn't cut the mustard. Its inexcusable. I'm hoping a lot of photgraphs get shown on that series later this year.So much about this case still isn't known. One reason I could never settle on a specific theory either way...we never had all the pieces to the puzzle. I would love to see the photographs taken at the Whites. Something in those pictures does not add up. The clothing they all wore that night is brought up several times in the interviews....even to the point of asking if she wore socks which sounds absurd. BPD had the photographs taken that evening so why do they continually ask what they were wearing? They KNOW what they were wearing....there's photographic proof. LIke I said...something doesn't add up.

 

[Cranberry]

Sounds to me like the notepad is out somewhere. It was found put away, wasn't it? An intruder isn't going to put it away if they found it out.

I believe it was the pen that was put away not the notepad. In the Charlevoix search warrant it states that JR handed the notepad to Det. Patterson. JR talks about the notepad at the end of the day in the 6/24/98 interview - which was the day before PR's interview about it on 6/25.
3 LOU SMIT: If I might just
14 touch on a couple of other things. When
15 you, the police officers at one time asked
16 you for a note pad.
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
18 LOU SMIT: Tell me the
19 circumstances surrounding that?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Linda Arndt when
21 we found the note and she said look, as a matter
22 of routine, I need samples of your handwriting
23 and Patsy's, just routine, I said I understand.
24 So I grabbed a note pad that had some of Patsy's
25 grocery lists or something on it, and I said
0504
1 this is Patsy's handwriting and they grabbed a
2 pad I had taken some notes on from a seminar and
3 it was on the bar and I said this is my
4 handwriting.
5 LOU SMIT: Where, do you remember?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: This bar.
7 LOU SMIT: And where was
8 Patsy's?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Patsy's was on
10 this table here.
11 MIKE KANE: Okay.
12 VOICE: John, would you point to
13 the bar again?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: This is the back
15 hall in the garage, this little sink bar that I
16 had, the sink was right there. Pad that I
17 picked up.
18 LOU SMIT: Was on that table?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Was on that
20 table.
21 LOU SMIT: Okay.
22 JOHN RAMSEY: I just gave
23 them the whole pad. I said this is
24 Patsy's handwriting, this is mine.
25 LOU SMIT: Okay. Now, I am
0505
1 going to show you two photographs; that's
2 number 52 and number 645, that shows that
3 particular area. And I will show that for
4 the camera. Can you pick that up? And
5 these were taken again during the
6 kidnapping phase of the investigation.
7 Now, if you will just take, first of all,
8 52 and tell me what you see there?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's the back
10 hall. There is a couple of things over here by
11 the stairway that would have been put there to
12 take downstairs for storage. There's a plastic
13 bag.
14 LOU SMIT: Do you know what's
15 in that bag?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Not for sure.
17 LOU SMIT: Do you know why
18 it's there?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Not for sure. No.



22 LOU SMIT: Now what table
23 did you get Patsy's pad from?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: I am pretty sure it
25 was this table. I don't know if that's it or it
0508
1 doesn't quite look like in this picture, but I
2 think it was laying on this table. The only
3 other place it could have been, but I swear I
4 picked it up off this table, would have been the
5 telephone table right here.
6 LOU SMIT: Do you
7 remember --
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Not with a
9 hundred percent certainty, but I would, my
10 recollection is that I picked it up off of
11 this table.
12 LOU SMIT: Just one more
13 question. I have got a photograph here
14 called 17.7. Somehow this is in your roll
15 of pictures or someone's roll of pictures
16 from before, okay, and it shows, first of
17 all, put it to the camera so they can see
18 that. And I am going to show you that.
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
20 LOU SMIT: Do you know who
21 would have taken that photograph?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: It's remotely
23 possible that I was having trouble with my
24 camera, I think, and I don't remember doing
25 this, but I can remember just clicking the
0509
1 camera, trying to see if it worked.
2 LOU SMIT: When was that?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: I mean, I don't
4 know. I mean it was, you know, the only time we
5 got the cameras out were typically at Christmas
6 time. But this looks like the pad frankly that
7 I gave her.
8 LOU SMIT: Does that look
9 like the spot where you would -- that you
10 picked it up from?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, my
12 recollection, yeah.
13 LOU SMIT: So that could be
14 the actual pad of a picture taken prior to
15 what happened?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: That's possible.
17 LOU SMIT: What else do you
18 notice?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, this bag is
20 still there, the school bag in the corner. The
21 toy is still roughly where it was. There is a,
22 I think that was a Santa Claus or something that
23 was --
24 LOU SMIT: Santa Claus suit?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Suit, yeah, or
0510
1 something, likes look. I don't remember what it
2 was. But that's there. Looks like it's still
3 in this picture. This red present is still
4 there. Day-Timer is not there in this picture.
5 LOU SMIT: What?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: The Day-Timer
7 doesn't look like it's there in this picture.
8 LOU SMIT: In the picture
9 taken prior, the Day-Timer is not there?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I think that
11 is -- I think that is my Day-Timer, but I am
12 not sure. I had one that was similar, black.
13 LOU SMIT: You notice the
14 bags that are in this picture dated prior,
15 the prior one, the bags, the plastic bags,
16 does it appear as they have been moved to
17 you?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 Definitely.
20 LOU SMIT: Do you know why
21 they would have been moved?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know what's
23 in there. I mean it -- there is something else
24 of course here on the floor, looks like a
25 stocking or something, Christmas stocking. But
0511
1 no, I don't. I mean I can't -- sometimes when
2 we bag up clothes that we were going to give
3 away, you know, that might have been what that
4 was.
5 LOU SMIT: That's kind of
6 coincidental, isn't it, to have a
7 picture --
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, it is.
9 You think this came off my camera or
10 you're not sure?
11 MIKE KANE: I am pretty sure it
12 came off your camera.
13 JOHN RAMSEY: They asked if we had
14 any pictures of the Christmas party and I
15 literally -- well, it's possible, because we
16 had an unusual, an uncompleted roll of film in
17 the camera and I think I clicked off some
18 pictures fairly quickly just to finish up the
19 roll, handed it to the policeman, one of the
20 uniform fellows that was there, and they took it
21 to get developed.
22 LOU SMIT: Okay. So this
23 picture here with the pad --
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Could have
25 been when I was just burning up pictures.
0512
1 LOU SMIT: At the scene?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
3 LOU SMIT: That morning?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
5 LOU SMIT: So it could have been
6 taken just shortly before?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Right, it's
8 possible. That I think I remember they wanted
9 pictures of the party and I said yeah, we got
10 'em, there was wasn't complete.
11 LOU SMIT: So then that would
12 show the pad in its spot that morning?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
14 LOU SMIT: Prior to you giving it
15 to the police officer?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
17 LOU SMIT: That explains that then.
18 BRYAN MORGAN: If that's what --
19 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS).
20 BRYAN MORGAN: I think when did you
21 do that?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty early on.
23 I mean, I think we very early on were concerned
24 about the cleaning lady and the fact that she,
25 you know, asked to borrow money and called Patsy
0513
1 all upset and had a big fight with her sister
2 the day before. I mean this was just kind of
3 like coming out, I didn't know about it, and you
4 know, Officer French was there, we very quickly
5 focused on the cleaning lady. I think they had
6 a wire tap put in place, they got hold of the
7 police in wherever she lives, Lafayette or
8 something like that, and they got involved.
9 So I think they wanted pictures of
10 the party because I think she was -- she was at
11 that 23rd party. Is I think the reason why they
12 wanted that roll of film. As well as they had
13 pictures of JonBenet on it. I don't remember if
14 that was the reason or not, but...
15 LOU SMIT: So then when this
16 photograph was taken you think you clicked
17 some off?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 LOU SMIT: That's why it
20 shows the pad there and then later you
21 gave the pad to the officer?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
23 LOU SMIT: Now it's a short time
24 later then that these photographs are taken and
25 trying to figure out why they would have moved
0514
1 the bag?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, there is
3 something else laying there too.
4 LOU SMIT: So that's a
5 question we have to answer.
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, I don't know.
7 There is no reason I would have moved it.
8 LOU SMIT: So that wouldn't
9 have been three days prior that this thing
10 was taken, but it could have just been
11 taken hours prior--
12 JOHN RAMSEY: It could have been
13 that morning. Yeah, it could have been.
14 BRYAN MORGAN: Could I see the
15 photograph? Lou, is there any way to tell where
16 in the sequence of the roll it was taken?
17 LOU SMIT: On the roll of John --
18 I am sure there is. I am sure the negatives
19 would be available.
20 VOICE: (INAUDIBLE).
21 LOU SMIT: That would show what
22 number, that's absolutely true. Now if you
23 remember doing that?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: I do, I think I did
25 it, because I had to finish the roll up to get
0515
1 it out of the camera.
2 LOU SMIT: Makes sense.
3 JOHN RAMSEY: Because it was
4 one of those electric rewinds and all that.
5 MIKE KANE: What kind of camera
6 was it?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: I -- it's a --
8 well, I am stretching if I try and remember. We
9 got a new camera, but I think that was after --
10 after that.
11 VOICE: But it had an auto winder?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, I am pretty
13 sure it did. Yeah, I am sure it rewound or --
14 it was one of those cartridge (INAUDIBLE).
15 LOU SMIT: I just, if I could just
16 -- I know it's getting close to five on our
17 thing -- I think we came here a quarter after
18 and the tape was put on, these are two-hour
19 tapes, so we still have a little bit of time but
20 I wanted to ask you a question and that's in
21 regards to the pineapple.