Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[Sutton]

J35 were does this 'missing tool' information come from ? Do you have a link to the article if there is one ?

There never was or is a reference to the tool, the posters just say that you have to 'trust' them on that...

I can't speak for J35, but I think this was posted as a rumor for discussion purposes only. Also in the hopes that anyone else who's heard this might speak up with more info.

I read this possibility some time back, but it isn't turning up on a Google search. Maybe it's mentioned in article comments somewhere.

I hope no one took my earlier post as fact or as if I was asking for any trust on the detail. I thought if anyone had heard about this it would be Papertrail.

 

[Basilisk]

http://www.postnewspapers.com.au/

Could cross-matching panel van and station wagon owners help police find the Claremont serial killer?
Police would not say – but a POST reader says it could be worth chasing.

And perhaps trail bikes?

 

[Sutton]

Debi Marshall talks about Jane's actions outside the Conti:

The second last sighting of Jane, outside the Continental Hotel, is captured on the hotel's security camera. She is grinning as she swings around the pole outside the pub. The final poignant sighting of her is standing alone on the pavement for a few minutes, on the corner of Bayview Terrace and Gugeri Street. The camera moves to another area of the hotel. When it pans back, Jane is gone.

(The Devil's Garden, Chapter 8, Location 567)

When was this? We didn't see all the footage, but at no time did we see Jane looking like she might spin around a post.

I read a similar account elsewhere, will try to find it...

 

[J35]

Merry Christmas everyone.

I can't speak for J35, but I think this was posted as a rumor for discussion purposes only. Also in the hopes that anyone else who's heard this might speak up with more info.

I read this possibility some time back, but it isn't turning up on a Google search. Maybe it's mentioned in article comments somewhere.

Bart originally posted it in thread 2, and Sutton briefly tried discussing it with Bart, then the Forensic link story broke and it was not reraised until (I think) Green devil (I posted quotes earlier when Sutton asked me about the hidden carrots).

As to whether it is a "rumour" or not...the original member believes strongly in it. Elastic has clearly spoken to the same person as is bang on. Take it with a pinch of salt, unless the original poster shows all his cards

I brought it up again as I felt paper trail was going down the rabbit hole with dump site cooridinates and wanted to discuss something 'worthwhile'. Bart I believe is temporarily suspended from webslueths

 

[papertrail]

An acquaintance I caught up with yesterday told me that the exact disposal location of CG has always been planned to be 1. (part) of the Mitchell Freeway Extension which Main Roads have been planning for years, and 2. the northern Metro railway extension.

I've attached a cutout from a map which shows the CG site detail; yellow highlight circle is CG disposal site. The parallel lines to the left of yellow highlight show the proposed Mitchell Freeway extension and I understand the extension has now been moved slightly to the east of CG disposal site.

Also, the swampy ground and water channel at the JR disposal site is actually a drainage channel that commences at the Kwinana Freeway; again Main Roads designed and installed that. I've attached a cutout of Landgate aerial map with yellow highlight showing draining channel easement.

So both JR and CG sites have had a connection to Main Roads Department. Now I am attempting to track down when the drainage channel was installed.

Does anyone know, or is anyone able to find out what LW actually does at Main Roads ? I read in one of the articles recently, that he was 'apprenticed' when he first started at Main Roads.

 

[papertrail]

I brought it up again as I felt paper trail was going down the rabbit hole with dump site cooridinates and wanted to discuss something 'worthwhile'. Bart I believe is temporarily suspended from webslueths

It concerns me that you say this about me going 'down the rabbit hole' re dumpsite co-ordinates. This is possibly one of the most important aspects as far as I am concerned because the killer has obviously planned these disposal sites. I have no intention on concentrating on co-ordinates as such, but links that may show why these sites have been specifically chosen.

 

[papertrail]

Debi Marshall talks about Jane's actions outside the Conti:

The second last sighting of Jane, outside the Continental Hotel, is captured on the hotel's security camera. She is grinning as she swings around the pole outside the pub. The final poignant sighting of her is standing alone on the pavement for a few minutes, on the corner of Bayview Terrace and Gugeri Street. The camera moves to another area of the hotel. When it pans back, Jane is gone.

(The Devil's Garden, Chapter 8, Location 567)

When was this? We didn't see all the footage, but at no time did we see Jane looking like she might spin around a post.

I read a similar account elsewhere, will try to find it...

This shows me that Marshall has depended on a lot of 'loose poetic licence' in her book. Marshall had obviously been told of the CIA doc because she had mentioned it in the book which was published some 16 or so months prior to the CIA doc being aired. If she viewed the footage prior to publishing date, it is shameful that she did not stick to a correct description. I think the reference to 'swings around' is foolishly deployed.

 

[papertrail]

And perhaps trail bikes?

Why trail bikes ?

 

[PersonX]

It concerns me that you say this about me going 'down the rabbit hole' re dumpsite co-ordinates. This is possibly one of the most important aspects as far as I am concerned because the killer has obviously planned these disposal sites. I have no intention on concentrating on co-ordinates as such, but links that may show why these sites have been specifically chosen.

I think J35 is still talking about your 167cm height / 167degree thought you found curious.

 

[PersonX]

This shows me that Marshall has depended on a lot of 'loose poetic licence' in her book. Marshall had obviously been told of the CIA doc because she had mentioned it in the book which was published some 16 or so months prior to the CIA doc being aired. If she viewed the footage prior to publishing date, it is shameful that she did not stick to a correct description. I think the reference to 'swings around' is foolishly deployed.

I haven't seen the footage in a while but I remember her swinging around a post once. She literally was leaning outward, feet close to the post, and swung around. That's the picture in my head. I'll see if I can find it in the video..

 

[papertrail]

How would this link in with the Claremost Rapist? Would he use this drug at the club where the girls are having their night out, does this bring (MM) back into the equation?

Or does he use his blitz attack to get control over them (Probably from being bound and tied up from washing line or rope) and subdue them before forcing the victims to take the drug so he could carry out his attack again later on in the night?

In my view it could bring whoever is involved into the equation. I think it is possible that the girls may have been offered a 'laced' drink when either in the vehicle, or at the venue.

I found it quite strange that Jane stood outside the hotel for so long without having a drink and that could be because she felt (over) inebriated in relation to how much alcohol she had consumed during the evening. That is one of the effects of Rohypnol.

If drinks were spiked, another effect would be the girls would have let down their 'guard'.

All 3 of the girls had started out in other locations on the day they were taken.

SS started out a the Fireworks Show in Kings Park (thousands of people attended), then moved onto the OBH, then she and friends obtained a lift with her sister who dropped her off at Club Bayview

JR started out by getting a lift from her home with her father to the Shenton Hotel where her mother worked as a barmaid. From there she (JR) caught a taxi to the OBH to join her girlfriends. A taxi from the OBH to the Conti.

CG started out with drinks at work, then onto the Irish Club, then onto the Conti.

 

[papertrail]

I haven't seen the footage in a while but I remember her swinging around a post once. She literally was leaning outward, feet close to the post, and swung around. That's the picture in my head. I'll see if I can find it in the video..

Definitely not in any footage I have viewed. I'd be interested to view the part of the video if you could provide a reference time.

At one time it appears that Jane swings, but she doesn't actually. She twists and her hair flays out but she is still standing in one position. At no time have I seen her grasp the post which she would need to do to 'swing'

I think it may be your mind imagining the 'swinging' after you've read the book.

 

[PersonX]

Definitely not in any footage I have viewed. I'd be interested to view the part of the video if you could provide a reference time.

At one time it appears that Jane swings, but she doesn't actually. She twists and her hair flays out but she is still standing in one position. At no time have I seen her grasp the post which she would need to do to 'swing'

I think it may be your mind imagining the 'swinging' after you've read the book.

You're 100% correct, I've looked for footage, reviewed CIA episode and it must be the twisting part you are describing that was in my mind. I didn't read the book (due to not great reviews/inaccuracies with facts) but have probably read the word "swing" somewhere due to book, and my mind imagined it. Sorry.

 

[PersonX]

As I've stated many times, I think LW is innocent. But I am looking for a document listing his previous address for Papertrail.

Here is the edited interview LW did with Channel 7 in 2002, for anyone interested:

http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=...ND&sw=w&asid=01083cc773f257dd03ad8bcc641b1293

I find it interesting that in his 2002 interview LW mentions rumours about a guy with a panel van ..when they apparently haven't made the link between Karakatta guy and CSK until 2009.

"Who do you think did it? Do you think there is someone out there that's . . . ?

Well, I don't know. You hear stories all the time. A few months ago someone was ringing me, over two days they rang me three times and wanted me to go to a meeting and they reckon they knew someone who was acting suspiciously in Claremont, ah, in a panel van, and taking people out to the bush, you know. I was a little bit suspicious of this person who was ringing me. He said they had relations in the police or something. They had some organisation they were starting and, um, something about, um, a committee for apprehending the real killer, you know, who called themselves CARK or something. I was a little bit suspicious about someone who had just phoned me at work and trying to, um, get me to go some meeting they were having in the city. I never went, but there was an article in the (Subiaco) Post about it and they were suggesting all these strange things I had never heard of before about a man in a panel van inviting people out to the bush, you know. I just found it all a bit ridiculous."

 

[papertrail]

You're 100% correct, I've looked for footage, reviewed CIA episode and it must be the twisting part you are describing that was in my mind. I didn't read the book (due to not great reviews/inaccuracies with facts) but have probably read the word "swing" somewhere due to book, and my mind imagined it. Sorry.

Hey no need to be sorry PersonX, these mistakes do happen and it's great that you felt comfortable enough to express your opinion. I fully understand what you wrote about the errors in the book; one of these days I'll do a dotpoint so that people will know, and from what I've read about WA Police feedback regarding the book, it could be one of the reasons the police were so adamant that the book would not assist the case in any way.

But what the release of the book did, was to keep the victims in the mind of the reading public, and I don't consider 'we' would be here if it were not for the book.

It does give a point of reference, and it's really great there are genuine people on here that help with research and discussion. I wish my friend was still around to participate; they had so much knowledge about the cases gained from their wonderful network of associates and acquaintances over time.

 

[Parkie]

Well, I don't know. You hear stories all the time. A few months ago someone was ringing me, over two days they rang me three times and wanted me to go to a meeting and they reckon they knew someone who was acting suspiciously in Claremont, ah, in a panel van, and taking people out to the bush, you know. I was a little bit suspicious of this person who was ringing me. He said they had relations in the police or something. They had some organisation they were starting and, um, something about, um, a committee for apprehending the real killer, you know, who called themselves CARK or something. I was a little bit suspicious about someone who had just phoned me at work and trying to, um, get me to go some meeting they were having in the city. I never went, but there was an article in the (Subiaco) Post about it and they were suggesting all these strange things I had never heard of before about a man in a panel van inviting people out to the bush, you know. I just found it all a bit ridiculous."[/I]

I`m calling BS on this. Same as when Billy or Barth called out a woman who reconed she went to Iona & he proved they had not. Basilik seems suss too. Too many name hopping here by one woman. You simply don`t stop, not since 2008. I`ll leave it there.

 

[papertrail]

I find it interesting that in his 2002 interview LW mentions rumours about a guy with a panel van ..when they apparently haven't made the link between Karakatta guy and CSK until 2009.

"Who do you think did it? Do you think there is someone out there that's . . . ?

Well, I don't know. You hear stories all the time. A few months ago someone was ringing me, over two days they rang me three times and wanted me to go to a meeting and they reckon they knew someone who was acting suspiciously in Claremont, ah, in a panel van, and taking people out to the bush, you know. I was a little bit suspicious of this person who was ringing me. He said they had relations in the police or something. They had some organisation they were starting and, um, something about, um, a committee for apprehending the real killer, you know, who called themselves CARK or something. I was a little bit suspicious about someone who had just phoned me at work and trying to, um, get me to go some meeting they were having in the city. I never went, but there was an article in the (Subiaco) Post about it and they were suggesting all these strange things I had never heard of before about a man in a panel van inviting people out to the bush, you know. I just found it all a bit ridiculous."

You've picked up on one of the major points that I picked up on and have included in the dotpoint I will post later this week. We need to keep in mind, that the newspaper articles regarding the Karrakatta rape were 'out there' much earlier than 2002, however LW was possibly contacted by CARK after his initial arrest in April 1998.

When I read the Alison Fan LW interview transcript I became certain she was 'pre-scripted' to ask certain questions. It would be really interesting to view the original interview wouldn't it.

I would be very interested to know if this CARK guy referred to by LW, ever actually mentioned a panel van. Does anyone know anything about CARK ?

 

[papertrail]

I`m calling BS on this. Same as when Billy or Barth called out a woman who reconed she went to Iona & he proved they had not. Basilik seems suss too. Too many name hopping here by one woman. You simply don`t stop, not since 2008. Papertrail seems to be part of the uno trio too. I`ll leave it there.

What PersonX wrote that you have included in your message Parkie, is actually part of the the LW transcript of interview conducted by Alison Fan. It was not made up by PersonX. Seems to me you keep bringing up personal issues from days gone by and it really doesn't help current discussion.

 

[Basilisk]

What PersonX wrote that you have included in your message Parkie, is actually part of the the LW transcript of interview conducted by Alison Fan. It was not made up by PersonX. Seems to me you keep bringing up personal issues from days gone by and it really doesn't help current discussion.

Thanks Paper - that is my understanding also.

And Parkie, hand on heart I post only here and with just one name! If I have said anything to offend please advise and we can discuss it.

 

[J35]

I would be very interested to know if this CARK guy referred to by LW, ever actually mentioned a panel van. Does anyone know anything about CARK ?

Answer is in DM's book

Page 192 - Apparently a man named Frank Silas and two other men who called themselves CARK (Citizens for Apprehension of the Real Killer)