Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[Bartholemeus]

This 'event' occurred after the Karrakatta rape, before the stalking of the Claremont-based prostitute (tracking her down to her parents residence [uninvited] and prompting the girl to write anonymously to Claremont police), before moving out to live by himself and before Sarah Spiers' disappearance.

There is no mention of this "worker" being Claremont based in DM's book. There is also no mention of the police station she reported it to as being Claremont Police Station. I can also tell you there has never been a brothel in Claremont.

Do you have a different source for this information, or did you mistakenly extrapolate information that doesn't exist?

PS The brothels LW was frequenting were in the Northbridge, North Perth, East Perth area.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Given that LW appears to be a lonesome character, best mate was possibly a school mate; LW attended Hollywood High and North Cottesloe Primary. Year books could hold what is needed.

Yep, nope. LW went to North Cott Primary and Swanbourne High.

 

[Bartholemeus]

But lets say Karrakatta was one of the first that Lance and his Best friend undertook, or maybe the best friend was the one that did the prior rapes in the area and then Lance got involved at a later date.

There was only one perp in thr Karra abduction. If there were two then the victim would have heard 2 car doors and 2 sets of footsteps etc. In fact all of the reported rapes and attempted rapes are reportedly by 1 person except the Princess Rd attempt.

I still wouldn't mind finding out about LWs mate though. Its still an outside possibility.

 

[silver tongue]

on the 26 october 1997 15 year old jessica small vanished from bathurst nsw
she was last seen in a white holden commodore with a male described as being 30 years of age
kellie anne carmicheal vanished from katoomba on the 26 april 2001 age 24
news paper reports state
there are fears a missing victorian women may be the victim of a serial killer.a nsw coroner wants police to open up a cold case review to see if a string of similar disapperances are connected
i think the csk legged it to nsw probably first to bathurst and started with jessica small as for lance williams being the csk no dna match, no connection with any vehicles no hitory of violence plus he doesnt look like a killer to me just an average loner

 

[aim2solve]

"Jane's body was found alongside a dirt track beside a riding school at Wellard, 35 kilometres south of Perth. The body had decomposed, but The Age understands there were no gunshot or knife wounds and she may have been strangled.
Her watch was found, giving police clues about which they refused to talk. But there is evidence Ms Rimmer was killed and dumped within hours of her abduction."

Martin Daly & David Reardon (1998) Who Killed These Women? - The Hunt For A Serial Killer - Part One The Age, Saturday May 30, 1998

Can anyone give me any ideas or hints as to how Police know that this victim was killed on the same night and dropped off "within hours" of being picked up?

 

[Bartholemeus]

on the 26 october 1997 15 year old jessica small vanished from bathurst nsw
she was last seen in a white holden commodore with a male described as being 30 years of age
kellie anne carmicheal vanished from katoomba on the 26 april 2001 age 24
news paper reports state
there are fears a missing victorian women may be the victim of a serial killer.a nsw coroner wants police to open up a cold case review to see if a string of similar disapperances are connected
i think the csk legged it to nsw probably first to bathurst and started with jessica small as for lance williams being the csk no dna match, no connection with any vehicles no hitory of violence plus he doesnt look like a killer to me just an average loner

NSW Police have a very strong suspect for Jessica Small. He wouldn't be the CSK.

As for LW not being a match - based on what we know there's just no way we coild be confident police have dna. Too many things don't add up. At the moment i think we need to be open minded to both possibilites (have dna/don't have dna).

And as for LW not fitting the profile - he fits more than any other POI.

 

[silver tongue]

could of run over the watch on the way out stopping it at time and date
of disposal

 

[elastic]

"Jane's body was found alongside a dirt track beside a riding school at Wellard, 35 kilometres south of Perth. The body had decomposed, but The Age understands there were no gunshot or knife wounds and she may have been strangled.
Her watch was found, giving police clues about which they refused to talk. But there is evidence Ms Rimmer was killed and dumped within hours of her abduction."

Martin Daly & David Reardon (1998) Who Killed These Women? - The Hunt For A Serial Killer - Part One The Age, Saturday May 30, 1998

Can anyone give me any ideas or hints as to how Police know that this victim was killed on the same night and dropped off "within hours" of being picked up?

I think the theory (with no basis) goes that the watch had stopped at a particular time, hence they have determined the time the watch stop was the time the blitz attack occured. Maybe the watch stopped in the dirt at a certain time at the dump site, or maybe when the perp bungled the victim into the car. No idea though if this didnt have anything to do with the watch theory.

 

[elastic]

Yep, nope. LW went to North Cott Primary and Swanbourne High.

Well i am glad some posters here are clarifying some of the misleading facts being thrown about. Very hard to make determinations with alot of the misinformation. Keep keeping the posters here honest, yourself and sutton have clarified quite a few misleading things lately.

 

[elastic]

NSW Police have a very strong suspect for Jessica Small. He wouldn't be the CSK.

As for LW not being a match - based on what we know there's just no way we coild be confident police have dna. Too many things don't add up. At the moment i think we need to be open minded to both possibilites (have dna/don't have dna).

And as for LW not fitting the profile - he fits more than any other POI.

I agree Lance Williams fits the profile, he is most definitely capable of this sort of act, and i am intrigued about the drinking and smoking habit stoping around the time of his best friend dying, and coincidentally the perpetrator escalates to killing over rape. With the first victim being hidden in a very hard to find spot. Whether his friend was the rapist and Lance became the killer is a mystery. I am also open to the DNA theory being wrong and non existant, very plausible, but they do beleive they have made a connection between Karrakatta and the claremont murders. I am not sure if that was possible withoit the DNA link, unless it was 'forensic evidence' not DNA

 

[silver tongue]

'glad to see you back bart' if they have dna LW is ruled out, if they dont then were did the csk go i dont think he stopped, my best bet is over east were there is a string of unsolved murders with all the hall marks of the csk

 

[elastic]

if they have dna LW is ruled out if they dont then were did he go, my bet is over east were there is a string of unsolved murders with all the hall marks of the csk

That is plausible, but if that is the case then we can rule out the Police releasing misleading information to make the killer 'relax' especially if he is no where to be seen. They took the surveillance off of Lance so either they wanted him to start stalking/killing again, or they are way off the mark, and know Lance and almost all their other POI's are no longer suspects. Whilst they wait for the killer to hopefully turn up on a database in another juridstriction.

Given how well the claremont killer may have known his way around Perth I think its likely he was not a foreign serial killer passing through, more likely a local, but you never know, plenty of serial killings have stopped around the world in certain areas without the perpetrator ever being discovered, maybe he is a USA serial killer passing through, or someone from the UK, Europe who has already been killing in his native lands, but with too much heat on him locally in those foreign countries he made his way to WA for a small 4-5 year stint before shooting through to NSW or somewhere else. Has the CSK been tested against any foreign databases for DNA if they actually do have a DNA profile?

I dont think its likely, i am thinking local,either still living here or incarcerated for a brutal murder/assault or sex crime or just blending in keeping a low profile.

 

[elastic]

Pretty sure Papertrail posted an original article soon after the Karrakatta abduction that mentioned the PV. CARK probably got their intel from this artcle and passed it on to LW.

I am just curious as to how they made the Karrakatta connection. It was the VS commodore station wagon that came to be connected back in 2008, before then there was no known car for any Claremont victim, only Karrakatta. Or did Lance say this deliberately? Or how did CARK aquire the correct intel long before the Police had any clue (although the Police had the witness statement of the VS commodore long before 2008) so the Police probably suspected the Claremont killer was driving a station wagon (possibly) and commodore (definitely according to the aussie teen who knew in his heart the type of car and was surely not mistaken in his mind). So either someone knew the Claremont killer was still using a Panel van (and also might not have made any Karrakatta link) and was correct with their intel, or this is another huge coincidence. I wonder if the Panel van was ever used again after Karrakatta. Or if it was always someone elses car.

 

[elastic]

There was only one perp in thr Karra abduction. If there were two then the victim would have heard 2 car doors and 2 sets of footsteps etc. In fact all of the reported rapes and attempted rapes are reportedly by 1 person except the Princess Rd attempt.

I still wouldn't mind finding out about LWs mate though. Its still an outside possibility.

The princess road attempt was the taxi attempt right? Then i wonder what vehicle this Taxi was, and what was the date, could this have been Lance's first attempt at an abduction, and it went horribly wrong, could this set the wheels in motion to stop his habits, especiallt when his friend died, and could all the previous rapes been done by Lances best friend, and no one can ID him because he is dead, and if he is cremated without being suspected of a crime the DNA is gone, which leaves familial DNA. Which they would need a solid excuse to obtain it through a family member.

As for one person doing Karrakatta, most likely was, and could have just been Lance's best friend, hence the confusion in the vehicles.

I wonder what Lance best friend did for job or hobby, hopefully nothing to do with screen printing

 

[papertrail]

There is no mention of this "worker" being Claremont based in DM's book. There is also no mention of the police station she reported it to as being Claremont Police Station. I can also tell you there has never been a brothel in Claremont.

Do you have a different source for this information, or did you mistakenly extrapolate information that doesn't exist?

PS The brothels LW was frequenting were in the Northbridge, North Perth, East Perth area.

you will see. the facts about the Claremont brothel worker is not mentioned in the book and I have never insinuated that it was ever mentioned in the book; although Marshall has given some detail in the book that will match information I will be posting in the dotpoint.

 

[papertrail]

Yep, nope. LW went to North Cott Primary and Swanbourne High.

The reason why I made this error regarding typing in Hollywood High instead of Swanbourne High that LW attended, was the Swanbourne High and Hollywood High ended up being conglomerated into one College in 1998. Yes LW did in fact attend Swanbourne High when it was known as Swanbourne High.

A very minor error in the scheme of things.

 

[papertrail]

There was only one perp in thr Karra abduction. If there were two then the victim would have heard 2 car doors and 2 sets of footsteps etc. In fact all of the reported rapes and attempted rapes are reportedly by 1 person except the Princess Rd attempt.

I still wouldn't mind finding out about LWs mate though. Its still an outside possibility.

There could well have been two perpetrators involved in Karrakatta; with one perp acting as the driver and the 2nd as the abductor and rapist. The press reports say the girl was grabbed and blindfolded and (initial press reports) say that she was bound with electrical flex (now believed to be some sort of clothesline rope / cord / wire) and I doubt given the vehicle used was a panel van he would have bundled her into the front seat instead he would have bundled her into the rear of the panel van. Therefore the girl would not have known if there was a 2nd perpetrator involved.

Given that Marshall also detailed information about LW's preference for hand sex (at all times) I doubt whether he could have performed the actual rape therefore it is open that a 2nd perpetrator was involved.

 

[papertrail]

That is plausible, but if that is the case then we can rule out the Police releasing misleading information to make the killer 'relax' especially if he is no where to be seen. They took the surveillance off of Lance so either they wanted him to start stalking/killing again, or they are way off the mark, and know Lance and almost all their other POI's are no longer suspects. Whilst they wait for the killer to hopefully turn up on a database in another juridstriction.

Given how well the claremont killer may have known his way around Perth I think its likely he was not a foreign serial killer passing through, more likely a local, but you never know, plenty of serial killings have stopped around the world in certain areas without the perpetrator ever being discovered, maybe he is a USA serial killer passing through, or someone from the UK, Europe who has already been killing in his native lands, but with too much heat on him locally in those foreign countries he made his way to WA for a small 4-5 year stint before shooting through to NSW or somewhere else. Has the CSK been tested against any foreign databases for DNA if they actually do have a DNA profile?

I dont think its likely, i am thinking local,either still living here or incarcerated for a brutal murder/assault or sex crime or just blending in keeping a low profile.

LW was in a very 'sensitive' state mentally and that could be why police pulled back on their overt surveillance, but that doesn't mean he was not and (still) is not under covert surveillance. Also, overt surveillance stopped about the same time that McKechnie the former chief State prosecutor came out swinging at police regarding their investigation techniques of LW. Police had lost by suicide, quite a few persons of interest and / or suspects so they would have decided to tread more lightweighted.

 

[papertrail]

Well i am glad some posters here are clarifying some of the misleading facts being thrown about. Very hard to make determinations with alot of the misinformation. Keep keeping the posters here honest, yourself and sutton have clarified quite a few misleading things lately.

the snip from one of my posts that Bart asserted was intentionally misleading by me, was in fact a minor error. I did include in my initial post a link to a document that clearly showed that I was not being intentionally misleading; in that it was a history of Swanbourne High document.

Very interesting to me is that Swanbourne High had been located in Narla Road Swanbourne, which is the road that the 1989 rapist used when he took that victim to the drive-in theatre which as it happens was just around the corner from Swanbourne High.

and this particular rape victim was abducted from Cottesloe Hotel which LW happened to also mention in the Alison Fan interview and it is detailed in the interview transcript as well ! Interesting what LW states regarding his observation of Cottesloe Hotel.

 

[papertrail]

'glad to see you back bart' if they have dna LW is ruled out, if they dont then were did the csk go i dont think he stopped, my best bet is over east were there is a string of unsolved murders with all the hall marks of the csk

IF they have DNA and the sample the DNA was collected from is bodily fluids such as seminal fluid, then it could possibly rule out LW as being the actual (Karrakatta) rapist, but it will not rule LW as being a cohort offender.