Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[PersonX]

Hey no need to be sorry PersonX, these mistakes do happen and it's great that you felt comfortable enough to express your opinion. I fully understand what you wrote about the errors in the book; one of these days I'll do a dotpoint so that people will know, and from what I've read about WA Police feedback regarding the book, it could be one of the reasons the police were so adamant that the book would not assist the case in any way.

But what the release of the book did, was to keep the victims in the mind of the reading public, and I don't consider 'we' would be here if it were not for the book.

It does give a point of reference, and it's really great there are genuine people on here that help with research and discussion. I wish my friend was still around to participate; they had so much knowledge about the cases gained from their wonderful network of associates and acquaintances over time.

Thanks for being understanding, and it would be great if your friend was still around and to help with the case. It's lovely that you've taken this amount of information and work on for him/her.

 

[PersonX]

What PersonX wrote that you have included in your message Parkie, is actually part of the the LW transcript of interview conducted by Alison Fan. It was not made up by PersonX. Seems to me you keep bringing up personal issues from days gone by and it really doesn't help current discussion.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was going to reply but decided it's not worth it.

 

[PersonX]

You've picked up on one of the major points that I picked up on and have included in the dotpoint I will post later this week. We need to keep in mind, that the newspaper articles regarding the Karrakatta rape were 'out there' much earlier than 2002, however LW was possibly contacted by CARK after his initial arrest in April 1998.

When I read the Alison Fan LW interview transcript I became certain she was 'pre-scripted' to ask certain questions. It would be really interesting to view the original interview wouldn't it.

I would be very interested to know if this CARK guy referred to by LW, ever actually mentioned a panel van. Does anyone know anything about CARK ?

I thought the police dismissed a connection between Karakatta guy and CSK until 2009 when they found a forensic link? even though a specialist from FBI advised them to look at that Karakatta crime for links way back at the start of the investigation, didn't the police still dismiss it? AFAIK that was what the public knew then, and presumably LW too?

I think I heard of CARK when I spent a long while reading the BF thread last year. or maybe in previous years keeping up with news. I don't know much about it though.

It would be really interesting to view the interview. I am sure it exists somewhere.

When you say you wonder if the CARK guy ever actually mentioned a panel van, do you mean to imply that LW isn't being truthful in the interview about this? If so, I'm not sure why he would make something like that up. If it's made up, it's a bit coincidental that panel vans are mentioned in this interview and it turns out that a panel van is linked to the CSK?
(Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.. It's 1am here and I'm tired/have a poor lil teething baby keeping us up most nights in this horrible hot weather!)

 

[papertrail]

I thought the police dismissed a connection between Karakatta guy and CSK until 2009 when they found a forensic link? even though a specialist from FBI advised them to look at that Karakatta crime for links way back at the start of the investigation, didn't the police still dismiss it? AFAIK that was what the public knew then, and presumably LW too?

I think I heard of CARK when I spent a long while reading the BF thread last year. or maybe in previous years keeping up with news. I don't know much about it though.

It would be really interesting to view the interview. I am sure it exists somewhere.

When you say you wonder if the CARK guy ever actually mentioned a panel van, do you mean to imply that LW isn't being truthful in the interview about this? If so, I'm not sure why he would make something like that up. If it's made up, it's a bit coincidental that panel vans are mentioned in this interview and it turns out that a panel van is linked to the CSK?
(Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.. It's 1am here and I'm tired/have a poor lil teething baby keeping us up most nights in this horrible hot weather!)

Don't think the police dismissed the Karrakatta rape, they just didn't make a connection. I don't think it was an FBI specialist that advised police; I think that bit of the story was connected to Bret Christian's (hired) FBI Profiler that suggested there would be a connection. Doubt whether police at that time would have taken any notice given the people that were in charge back then.

I am not 'meaning to imply' anything regarding LW's statement to Alison Fan re the panel van and the CARK group connection. I am very intrigued by it though; could it have been an unconscious slip up by LW when he referred to a panel van ? It would be very interesting to try and find the CARK group members to see if they actually ever mentioned the panel van and the goings on related to that van, to LW.

I've got a gut feeling that there may have been 2 people involved at the time of the Karrakatta rape, with the DNA match, I wonder if one half of the pair is now deceased and never been in the 'scope' of police investigators. I am now referring to LW's friend who died sometime in mid 1995; there was some significant connection to this person given the reaction LW had ie giving up drinking and smoking cold turkey.

 

[papertrail]

what occurred on 3 August 1995 ? This is the date LW told Alison Fan, pretty amazed he could just pull that date out of there air like he did ! JR was discovered on 3rd August '96.

"Well, I haven't drunk alcohol since the third of August '95 so, um, I, I've given up, as I said before. I've stopped drinking. I stopped smoking. I stopped gambling. I mean it's not as though I'm gonna start doing some other crime, which is one of the worst you could ever think of, I mean, you know"

 

[elastic]

I find it interesting that in his 2002 interview LW mentions rumours about a guy with a panel van ..when they apparently haven't made the link between Karakatta guy and CSK until 2009.

"Who do you think did it? Do you think there is someone out there that's . . . ?

Well, I don't know. You hear stories all the time. A few months ago someone was ringing me, over two days they rang me three times and wanted me to go to a meeting and they reckon they knew someone who was acting suspiciously in Claremont, ah, in a panel van, and taking people out to the bush, you know. I was a little bit suspicious of this person who was ringing me. He said they had relations in the police or something. They had some organisation they were starting and, um, something about, um, a committee for apprehending the real killer, you know, who called themselves CARK or something. I was a little bit suspicious about someone who had just phoned me at work and trying to, um, get me to go some meeting they were having in the city. I never went, but there was an article in the (Subiaco) Post about it and they were suggesting all these strange things I had never heard of before about a man in a panel van inviting people out to the bush, you know. I just found it all a bit ridiculous."

Very odd that we find out all these years later that the panel van the karrakatta rape victim identified whilst walking passed it parked in the car park before she was bound and bungled into the back was mentioned in that interview which Lance brings up about the CSK all those years before they established the link. Very interesting. So CARK were after a panel van in their investigations. The commodore station wagon sighting gets mentioned in 2008? There were no earlier official links from any witnesses prior to the commodore station wagon (white) coming into the mix and being made public for the first time. So what made everyone or especially CARK suggest the panel van was linked to the CSK case (even if they didnt make the karrakatta connection). Did they beleive the panel van was owned by the perpetrator, or his family, whilst the victims, or atleast one of the victim was bound and subdued in the white VS commodore series 1. Was that to take some heat off of the panel van? What type of vehicles do mainroads use? If any?

I think Lance is a dead end though, it has been suggested in the media he is no longer a suspect. But who is the man driving a panel van through claremont and who knew about it and what made CARK think this strange panel man driver was linked?

This could all just be a huge coincidence, but i think it may not be. Who knew about the panel van and didnt make the karrakatta link?

 

[elastic]

what occurred on 3 August 1995 ? This is the date LW told Alison Fan, pretty amazed he could just pull that date out of there air like he did ! JR was discovered on 3rd August '96.

"Well, I haven't drunk alcohol since the third of August '95 so, um, I, I've given up, as I said before. I've stopped drinking. I stopped smoking. I stopped gambling. I mean it's not as though I'm gonna start doing some other crime, which is one of the worst you could ever think of, I mean, you know"

Alcoholics (well some) would be proud of the date they gave up drinking and would be able to recite the date ina heartbeat, amazingly though, if the abduction date is correct, then by some eerie coincidence the day he gave up drinking falls smack bang on the abduction date which is his first year anniversary. Hmm.

 

[elastic]

Lets entertain the DNA link for a minute.

When Police announced that the familial DNA testing was going to lead to an arrest sometime in the future could that be a family member of the guy who died who was best mates with Lance Williams?

Could that mean that the rope/ washing line was originally taken from the home, or was obtained by Lance Williams best friend, not Lance himself, and this has been used in a future crime thus leaving a partial, however the full DNA profile was originally Lance Williams best friends because he undertook the original rape. If Lance continued this on did he attempt/rape Sarah Spiers, then find it off putting and wanted to concentrate on just murder for his next two. Not caring for DNA because he didnt sexually assault Ciara or Jane, but mistakingly dug up his old murder/bound weapon, the clothesline/washing line which still had partial DNA traces that were then left on the victim. If it was Lance he probably would have used gloves. Therefor leaving no DNA. But did his best friend mistakingly, in his careless last days, leave a vital clue/link?

 

[Sutton]

Alcoholics (well some) would be proud of the date they gave up drinking and would be able to recite the date ina heartbeat, amazingly though, if the abduction date is correct, then by some eerie coincidence the day he gave up drinking falls smack bang on the abduction date which is his first year anniversary. Hmm.

August 3 is the date Jane was found, not the day she was abducted.

LW said he hadn't had a drink since August 3, 1995.

Jane's body was found August 3, 1996.

I don't see how that could be anything other than coincidence (unless LW lied about the date for some mysterious reason).

http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=...ND&sw=w&asid=01083cc773f257dd03ad8bcc641b1293

 

[elastic]

August 3 is the date Jane was found, not the day she was abducted.

LW said he hadn't had a drink since August 3, 1995.

Jane's body was found August 3, 1996.

I don't see how that could be anything other than coincidence (unless LW lied about the date for some mysterious reason).

http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=...ND&sw=w&asid=01083cc773f257dd03ad8bcc641b1293

Thanks for clearing that up, just seems more a coincidence now i agree. Unless Lance quit drinking on a different date (same month) and got the two dates confused, that would be incredibly awkward for a seemingly innocent man.

 

[papertrail]

Alcoholics (well some) would be proud of the date they gave up drinking and would be able to recite the date ina heartbeat, amazingly though, if the abduction date is correct, then by some eerie coincidence the day he gave up drinking falls smack bang on the abduction date which is his first year anniversary. Hmm.

It was not the anniversary of the abduction date for JR that LW gave up drinking, smoking, gambling but the date JR was located was the anniversary date of this event. And is it a coincidence that LW's mate died around the same time. I'd be interested to find out what his mate died of; car accident, health issues, suicide, misadventure or 'other'.

I don't consider for one moment that LW 'is dead in the water'. Nothing official released by police and media have been known to hook onto something without first checking the story lines thoroughly. Police are well known for ignoring incorrect assertions in the media, but it also just may be a deliberate ploy by police to make their chief suspect relax; and especially so if he is considered to be mentally fragile.

I often wonder about siblings.

What I find more significant is that all hell broke loose when LW moved into his own flat and from all accounts he lived alone in that flat.

 

[papertrail]

August 3 is the date Jane was found, not the day she was abducted.

LW said he hadn't had a drink since August 3, 1995.

Jane's body was found August 3, 1996.

I don't see how that could be anything other than coincidence (unless LW lied about the date for some mysterious reason).

http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=...ND&sw=w&asid=01083cc773f257dd03ad8bcc641b1293

I don't think it shows that LW 'lied'; but I do consider he may have released something subconsciously. I just wish that Alison Fan had asked him why he remembered the date so specifically. He was obviously very nervous during the interview, lots of 'um' and so forth so for him to pull the date like he did shows there was something significant that occurred immediately before that particular date and I don't think it had anything to do with alcoholism given he also gave up gambling and smoking.

The interview occurred 7+ years after the LW event (3/8/95) and LW stated to Fan that he didn't keep a diary or notes about anything.

This 'event' occurred after the Karrakatta rape, before the stalking of the Claremont-based prostitute (tracking her down to her parents residence [uninvited] and prompting the girl to write anonymously to Claremont police), before moving out to live by himself and before Sarah Spiers' disappearance.

During the Alison Fan interview (and via press reports after arrest), he indicated he drove around Claremont and followed girls because he was concerned that girls were still walking out alone and he had offered lifts to ensure their safety; therefore, what was the stalking of the prostitute to her parents' residence about. This event occurred in December 1995. Burning question is did Claremont police followup prior to Claremont abductions commencing ? If police did followup this might have been the 'straw that broke this camel's back' and pushed LW over the edge. Damned shame that Alison didn't ask him about this but she possibly was totally unaware.

Marshall detailed (in book) that LW used to treat the prostitutes he visited like a 'girlfriend' leaving them small gifts he would wrap in hand towels and place so the girl would find the gift. This shows me that he was in a fragile mental state and I could well imagine that the girl reporting the stalking to her parents' residence would have quite a significant influence on his mental instability. I think he went to the girls parents' residence because he truly believed she was his 'special girl'. Be interested to know what her description would be described as ie hair colour, hair length and style (e.g off face) and eye colour.

Marshall also detailed that the Claremont victims were not raped and that LW preferred hand sex.

When LW stated to Alison Fan
"Well, I haven't drunk alcohol since the third of August '95 so, um, I, I've given up, as I said before. I've stopped drinking. I stopped smoking. I stopped gambling. I mean it's not as though I'm gonna start doing some other crime, which is one of the worst you could ever think of, I mean, you know"


I believe the Claremont prostitute's rejection of him and subsequent reporting of him to Claremont police could well have tipped him over the edge. LW obviously believed (in his mind) that drinking / gambling / smoking was a crime. So what event was he involved with before 3/8/1995 that was 'crime' related ?

The Claremont killer and Claremont rapist, chose victims from Claremont. If LW was involved he could have chosen victims from Fremantle, Perth Central, Subiaco, Northbridge, Leederville or the Casino but Claremont was chosen.

 

[papertrail]

Lets entertain the DNA link for a minute.

When Police announced that the familial DNA testing was going to lead to an arrest sometime in the future could that be a family member of the guy who died who was best mates with Lance Williams?

Could that mean that the rope/ washing line was originally taken from the home, or was obtained by Lance Williams best friend, not Lance himself, and this has been used in a future crime thus leaving a partial, however the full DNA profile was originally Lance Williams best friends because he undertook the original rape. If Lance continued this on did he attempt/rape Sarah Spiers, then find it off putting and wanted to concentrate on just murder for his next two. Not caring for DNA because he didnt sexually assault Ciara or Jane, but mistakingly dug up his old murder/bound weapon, the clothesline/washing line which still had partial DNA traces that were then left on the victim. If it was Lance he probably would have used gloves. Therefor leaving no DNA. But did his best friend mistakingly, in his careless last days, leave a vital clue/link?

There was a clothesline at the rear of the flats cnr Pearse St. I'll post a photo.

Is DNA obtained from saliva / mouth swipes the same as the DNA obtained in hair ? LW stated to Alison Fan that police had obtained a mouth swipe from him whilst he was in police vehicle immediately after his arrest (April 1998). The subsequently also took 3 hair strands.

I don't think LW would have used gloves and may have subsequently learnt information from 1996 press reports and that may have prompted him to wear gloves. The DNA from Karrakatta rape may not have been from bodily fluids but hair left on victim.

I believe the death of LW's best mate in mid 1995 to be linked and as I've said previously today, manner of death will be vital. I wonder if police have ever even considered to see if mate could be connected.

Given that LW appears to be a lonesome character, best mate was possibly a school mate; LW attended Hollywood High and North Cottesloe Primary. Year books could hold what is needed.

 

[papertrail]

Interesting also (to me) is that LW used the words "real killer" to Alison Fan when talking about CARK group. This could show that he was present but wasn't the 'real killer' in his own mind. LW obviously kept track of news reports because he also mentioned to Fan that Subiaco Post carried the CARK story. Therefore Bret will have all details and may need a memory jolt regarding the panelvan connection CARK made.

 

[elastic]

There was a clothesline at the rear of the flats cnr Pearse St. I'll post a photo.

Is DNA obtained from saliva / mouth swipes the same as the DNA obtained in hair ? LW stated to Alison Fan that police had obtained a mouth swipe from him whilst he was in police vehicle immediately after his arrest (April 1998). The subsequently also took 3 hair strands.

I don't think LW would have used gloves and may have subsequently learnt information from 1996 press reports and that may have prompted him to wear gloves. The DNA from Karrakatta rape may not have been from bodily fluids but hair left on victim.

I believe the death of LW's best mate in mid 1995 to be linked and as I've said previously today, manner of death will be vital. I wonder if police have ever even considered to see if mate could be connected.

Given that LW appears to be a lonesome character, best mate was possibly a school mate; LW attended Hollywood High and North Cottesloe Primary. Year books could hold what is needed.

Lets say HYPOTHETICALLY that Lance Williams does have something to do with the Claremont rapes/ kills.

The Karrakatta Rape happened in Feb 1995. It is unknown if that was one of many leading up to that rape / or the first rape that the Claremont Rapist/s undertook, it is undetermined at this point. But lets say it was one of the first that Lance and his Best friend undertook, or maybe the best friend was the one that did the prior rapes in the area and then Lance got involved at a later date.

But could the best friend be responsible for some of the earlier rapes around the area, he then got his best friend Lance Williams involved around 1995 (February) when the Karrakatta Cemetery rape happened. Whether Lance is involved or not is unknown, but the friend could have been the one to leave the DNA. Hopefully the Police have bothered to look into this as this seems like a very basic avenue of inquiry to follow up and would be gobsmacked if it wasn't. Is this why no one has been able to identify the Claremont rapist, he may be dead, and Lance is not the rapist.

They could be using Familial DNA testing to find out if the best friends DNA does match the DNA from the Karrakatta rape. Obviously Lance Williams DNA does not match the Karrakatta rape or the Claremont killings DNA sample because they took samples from him and he would have been the very first person tested. His profile would have been compared and eliminated.

If Lance decided around the time his friend was dying to take over the reigns and escalate the attacks to full blown murder then either the death of his friend triggered this, or his friend and Lance may have attempted another rape (or even murder) in 1995 at a later date before the friends death that may have gone badly, maybe the two of them whilst drinking/ smoking and gambling decided to attempt a rape/ or even a murder, and for some reason it didn't go very smoothly, did he then wake up and decide 'NO MORE DRINKING/SMOKING or EVEN GAMBLING' because they almost were caught, or identified. this could even be an unreported attempted rape around the area, the area had attacks quite commonly, even rapes, despite being Perth's most affluent area.

From this moment on he was never going to drink, he was going to kill (his new addiction) and do everything by the book. His friend was buried, and the Police never caught up with him, so did Lance decide to dig up or obtain the best friends hunting tools (The washing line, possibly with ink) and use this on at least one of the Claremont kill victims.

We don't know what evidence Sarah Spiers had on her, it could be assumed she has DNA from Lance, and that is exactly why she is so well hidden. Maybe he did not find the rape that fun, he liked 'handjobs' and decided he preferred killing these girls, to Lance that was his sport, not raping, he could just get prostitutes to service his 'other' needs instead, he may have found his climax to be the outright kill, and his friend was a serial rapist who actually didn't care to kill because he found raping to be his release.

It is very plausible that this is what has caused so much confusion with the DNA, and the identifying the two different vehicles. I wonder if Lance Williams best friend had access to a panel van, and it was Lance who had access to a white VS series 1 Commodore (likely station wagon), could this be a mainroads car, sounds like a government issue vehicle, did he just take it out one night without permission, was he last to leave his workplace and took the keys and vehicle and returned it first thing in the morning, or Monday when the new working week started? It may have been a brothers vehicle, or did the parents have friends who had access, were those friends old and didn't realize he took their car, or just borrowed it but no one made the link because they didn't announce the vehicle (from witness statements) until 2008 and too much time had passed. It would be quite easy to forgot given how much time has gone by since the killings first started.

As you say something 'MUST' have happened for Lance to completely go cold turkey, his friend dying, or the rapes, or a duel rape murder attempt that may have either happened (Unnoticed because they used a different MO to Lance's current crimes due to Lance being alone now) or even the Karrakatta rape started the change of his habits so he could focus on being a killer, or maybe a combination of both, the death of his best friend being his final straw. It still bothers me that the day he recited in the interview just coincidently happens to be discovery date of one victim, is there anyway to confirm if the date he gave was actually his real quitting date or he confused himself because he was remembering multiple dates in the same month and was extremely nervous during the interview (hence the constant umm's) and blurted out the wrong date, he looked rattled with 'umms' after answering that question.

I would also like to know the date and way the friend died. would be interesting to see how it aligns with Lance giving up the bad habits.

 

[J35]

I'll raise a few things:

1) DNA consists of Mitochondrial DNA and Nuclear DNA, the first being maternally inherited and the latter being inherited from both mother and father.

2) it's hard to obtain DNA from hair samples- you need the roots (plus skin cells that are with it). I.e, you can't extract DNA from cut hair (unless there has been some major new techniques since I have done my degree)

3) hair sample was likely for comparison to other hair samples

4). INVESTIGATOR BIAS. I hope you plan on putting as much effort into 'eliminating' the other suspects Papertrail, because right now, it seems like your trying to make your beliefs/findings about LW fit the jigsaw puzzle. I'm still waiting on your dot points pro/con LW.

5. I'd like to see you do this much work on Judoman from CIA episode. He is up on my list.

 

[elastic]

I'll raise a few things:

1) DNA consists of Mitochondrial DNA and Nuclear DNA, the first being maternally inherited and the latter being inherited from both mother and father.

2) it's hard to obtain DNA from hair samples- you need the roots (plus skin cells that are with it). I.e, you can't extract DNA from cut hair (unless there has been some major new techniques since I have done my degree)

3) hair sample was likely for comparison to other hair samples

4). INVESTIGATOR BIAS. I hope you plan on putting as much effort into 'eliminating' the other suspects Papertrail, because right now, it seems like your trying to make your beliefs/findings about LW fit the jigsaw puzzle. I'm still waiting on your dot points pro/con LW.

5. I'd like to see you do this much work on Judoman from CIA episode. He is up on my list.

Hot on my list is the sexual predator, or highgate man, I also have Morey up there, presuming he isnt either of those two, if he is, he is highest on the list, he is a known serial killer who also likes to use rope to subdue. It is also strange that there has been very little information leaked about this suspect up until Con Bayens revealed a little more on this person by giving the location, hunting ground, highgate. Nothing more.

The Martial Arts expert is also right up there if Morey, or he sexual predator / highgate man is not the claremont rapist/killer. People presume Martial Arts expert is Judoman, this is not proven, but for discussion purposes if something substantial could be bought to the table to prove Judoman is Martial Arts expert I am happy to entertain the thought and discuss. But right now he is Martial Arts Expert and little officially is known.

Police involvement is a possibility given the dark past WA Police has. When I think Police involvement I am thinking either a family member, more than an actual officer, but I still think its plausible it could have been an actual Police man.

Not so sure on Tony Taxi, Lance Williams, Steve Ross, Peter Weygers, and definitely not Strange Doctorman.. Happy to discuss if something substantial can be bought up aswell.

Alot of evidence is being presented to try and make the suspect fit, rather than letting that happen naturally by presenting the evidence and ruling out each individual suspect based on each individual piece of evidence, or circumstance. Interested to hear the Lance Williams write up though considering whats been bought to the table recently though.

 

[J35]

People presume Martial Arts expert is Judoman, this is not proven, but for discussion purposes if something substantial could be bought to the table to prove Judoman is Martial Arts expert I am happy to entertain the thought and discuss. But right now he is Martial Arts Expert and little officially is known..

I'm talking about Judoman - the guy that some websluethers on have proposed the CIA doco contained purely "to get his face out there".

Based on past posts by web sleuthers,
Allegedly worked with SS
Allegedly was an acquaintance of JR (despite role in doco)
Skills to rapidly subdue

Did he provide DNA?
I don't believe he has been an official POI, only a webslueth POI.

Pros:
If Known to SS- SS is likely to get a lift home

If acquaintance of JR- JR likely to feel safe enough to get a lift (not a stranger/seems ok bloke/seems safe enough)

Could have stopped due to having a family (similar to BTK killer but with greater control)

Cons
We know very little about him

We don't know how CG fits in

We don't know if he has been cleared by DNA

Doesn't match MM (only important if you think MM is involved)

 

[J35]

Paper trail, this may help with your list for LW:

BTK killer:
wasnot very bright- did poorly at school

stalked people for a very long time (To their homes- looked at mail to get personal details etc find out where they worked etc.

and chose his victims carefully/well planned- the location of the victim's home (where the murders took place) was important in whether that person was to be his next kill.

Interesting read
http://listverse.com/2015/03/17/10-things-you-never-knew-about-the-btk-killer/

**despite the large amount of circumstantial evidence, BTK caught by familial DNA testing of his Daughter. Matched to seamen he left at all his murders. (That and by metadata on a floppy disk he sent to police)

 

[Bartholemeus]

Very odd that we find out all these years later that the panel van the karrakatta rape victim identified whilst walking passed it parked in the car park before she was bound and bungled into the back was mentioned in that interview which Lance brings up about the CSK all those years before they established the link. Very interesting. So CARK were after a panel van in their investigations.

Pretty sure Papertrail posted an original article soon after the Karrakatta abduction that mentioned the PV. CARK probably got their intel from this artcle and passed it on to LW.