CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #40

[findDylan]

For Link: Please see Page 1 of this thread - Media/Timeline - last page - there's a Full Transcript of both days.

Here's what I transcribed re: ER/Dr. Phil about the phone...

Dr. Phil:
He was texting. So right up ‘till 9:30 he’s texting and then just zip… zero… So he could have gone to sleep, right?

ER:
9:30 seems a little early for Dylan, but…ummm

Dr. Phil:
Okay, what time would he usually go to sleep?

ER:
Probably about 11, midnight, somewhere around there

Dr. Phil:
So 9:30 would be early.

ER:
9:30 would be early, and it’s definitely early for him to stop texting, especially when he was so excited to see his friends.

Dr. Phil:
His friends on that end?

ER:
Yes, his friends in the southwest.

Dr. Phil:
And was he texting them up until 9:30?

ER:
I believe the last text was about 9:30… somewhere around there.

Dr. Phil:
To those friends?

ER:
Yes.

Dr. Phil:
Okay, so he was in connection with them until 9:30. Not another text was ever sent from his phone?

ER:
Right.

BBM - so the last text that night was from his cell and not an iPod. IMO

 

[KateNY]

Dr Phil told MR that his offer of help had a shelf life

However

Karma doesn't have a shelf life


:twocents:

 

[TheDuchess]

OMG...I just have to mention this AGAIN!!! My FB is literally flooded with Dylan's photo!!! His beautiful face is spreading like wildfire!!! I don't care what anyone says about DP, he has truly blown this case wide open and truly made it a national story!!!

I pray that this not only brings about finding Dylan, but also brings some measure of comfort to his family that so many people care and are touched by his story.

 

[Stash777]

I have been reading the postings about anti-social behavior and many others. I had a thought...........
I know someone on a very maternal level (not one of my biological children) that was diagnosed with RAD, reactive attachment disorder.
Part of this disorder is the inability to actually feel emotions for themself or others. I'm going from memory and most certainly can be wrong. If my memory serves me correctly, it is generally in children that had that failure to thrive type of childhood. They just can't show any empathy for anyone, not even themselves.

I'm not saying MR had or has that. I'm just questioning that with so many disorders in the world, I think that without proper evaluation we, as sleuthers, can't say one way or another if someone has any or all of them. Am I making sense? Point is that there are bits & pieces of any disorder that we can make fit, so how do we decide if there even is one? And do we even need to decide?

I appreciate all the knowledge because I really am confused on all of the different terminology, they all seem to fit and still none of them seem to fit.

Thanks to anyone that can clear my head on this

RBBM

I am not an expert by any means, but I am in grad school studying child/adolescent development and have taken a couple clinical/abnormal psych classes. From what I remember from those courses, a person must exhibit a certain number of behaviors/symptoms for said disorder to be diagnosed (and even then, can be misdiagnosed as many disorders have overlapping behaviors/symptoms) and, of course, must be diagnosed by a licensed psychologist. IMO

I personally don't believe we need to know if MR has some type of psych disorder at this point, as I don't think that will help in locating Dylan. If Dylan is found to no longer (I hate typing this) be living, and MR is named a suspect, then psych issues may come into play wrt a trial. All MOO, and I hope that makes sense.

O/T - I admire your strength, courage, and dedication to finding Dylan. Big (((hugs)))


ETA - Also, symptoms/behaviors occur on a continuum that can be classified as none, mild, moderate, severe, which is why frequency of symptoms/behaviors are normally listed in the DSM-V for diagnosis of said disorders. IMO, in any given situation someone might exhibit symptoms of a certain disorder but not actually have that or any disorder for that matter. Again, MOO as I am not an expert.

 

[Ghostwheel]

With the dogs and the hits at the lake I feel it's one of three things.
1) there is a body down there and they can't get to it right now so they are down playing it
2) LE is too "small town" to understand exectly what the dogs are doing and what they are hitting on.
3) LE is upset someone else is coming in and going back over what they already did. Kinda like they didn't do a good enough job.

This all just my thoughts and opinions on it.

I would like to add another possibility. Being as they are not an incredibly large LE, they may have had limited funds to search with, and had to make hard choices (like to wait until spring to look again). With the advent of volunteers and/or the Find Dylan fund, LE is OK with stepping back but keeping their mouth shut so as not to jeopardize any case that could come with the finding of remains. JMO

 

[deoneta]

OMG please don't think that you should not have shared that!!!! I just don't understand it all and I am getting confused, I would change my name to confusion but it's already taken.

I don't know anyone's qualifications, I know mine are pretty much limited to NCIS, Criminal Minds, TruTV etc. so I do consider myself an expert in matters that have already been solved.

I am just asking for clarification because it seems that so many of them overlap each other. But how do you know (from our armchair) which is the most appropriate if any?

again, you is general, maybe I need to put that in my signature????

Like you, all my legal and psychiatric expertise comes from watching TV. IMO, narcissistic personality disorder might come closest. Severity and range of symptoms can vary of course.

From this link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/

Symptoms

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may:

React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation

Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals

Have excessive feelings of self-importance

Exaggerate achievements and talents

Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love

Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment

Need constant attention and admiration

Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy

Have obsessive self-interest

Pursue mainly selfish goals

and:

Complications

Alcohol or other drug dependence

Relationship, work, and family problems

All my very amateur opinion only.

 

[Seek&Find]

:seeya: Attn: FMDR, Elaine, Michael:seeya:​

Summit County Water Rescue (one of the only high-altitude water rescue teams in the world..all-volunteer group in Colorado)

The suits are critical for the cold-water environment of high-altitude diving operations, and will be used for activities like accident victim rescue and recovery, vehicle and boat recovery and salvage, ice diving, ice rescues and underwater crime scene investigation.

link

We are a non-profit dive rescue and recovery team working with the La Crosse County Sheriff's Dept., made up of volunteers, both divers and non-divers.

link

The Laci and Conner Search and Rescue Fund

Sharon Rocha, founder of the Laci and Conner Search and Rescue Fund, and a member of The Carole Sund/Carrington Foundation Board of Directors states, “Many people spent countless hours helping in the search for my daughter, Laci. I believe that every missing person deserves to be found and returned to their loved ones. We hope to aid in that effort by providing funds to assist in search and rescue operations”

http://local.nixle.com/alert/4148120/#sthash.pteddEN0.dpuf

Maybe one of these groups could help, or direct the family to dive teams who could help. I'm thinking Sharon could and would happily help connect them.

SwampMama & diveguy - is there an organization for recovery divers, beyond PADI or SSI, etc?

TES? Does Mark Klaas have contacts in this area?

 

[Money Girl]

I know it's just me, but I hate putting labels on people, and I especially hate to see people who are not doctors with a doctor-patient relationship putting a label on someone else.

 

[azgrandma]

RBBM

I am not an expert by any means, but I am in grad school studying child/adolescent development and have taken a couple clinical/abnormal psych classes. From what I remember from those courses, a person must exhibit a certain number of behaviors/symptoms for said disorder to be diagnosed (and even then, can be misdiagnosed as many disorders have overlapping behaviors/symptoms) and, of course, must be diagnosed by a licensed psychologist. IMO

I personally don't believe we need to know if MR has some type of psych disorder at this point, as I don't think that will help in locating Dylan. If Dylan is found to no longer (I hate typing this) be living, and MR is named a suspect, then psych issues may come into play wrt a trial. All MOO, and I hope that makes sense.

O/T - I admire your strength, courage, and dedication to finding Dylan. Big (((hugs)))

So if I am understanding you correctly, if a person displays 5 traits out of (a) disorder and only 3 out of (b) disorder than they are diagnosed with b. Right? Not a & b?

I agree it doesn't matter with respect to Dylan, I was just getting confused and wasn't sure. In my little world, I just say that they are freaking nuts and it kind of covers all the disorders. It's nice to know that some are peanuts and some are walnuts. Thank you for clearing it up.

 

[Seek&Find]

BBM - so the last text that night was from his cell and not an iPod. IMO

Well...not necessarily. That's not clearly stated in that exchange, IMO.

 

[azgrandma]

I know it's just me, but I hate putting labels on people, and I especially hate to see people who are not doctors with a doctor-patient relationship putting a label on someone else.

My apologies MoneyGirl, IMO nobody was putting labels on anyone, I was asking for clarification on the labels. It was not my intent to label anyone with anything and I apologize if it seemed otherwise.

 

[scorekeeper]

It's going to be difficult to dive the lake right now, but within the scope of what trained divers can do. If they can narrow down the location to a small area I could see them trying.

The depth of Lake Vellecito is a maximum of 110 feet which is still diveable but complicated at 8,000 feet in elevation - it's equal to a dive of 150 feet at sea level. It's likely much of the lake is shallower than this though. The amount of time a diver can spend searching is very short on each dive. Depending on depth, it would likely be under 20-30 minutes of dive time per day, per diver. Diving under the ice is also a technical challenge but it's done regularly and safe with proper gear and training.

They might be able to bring in a ROV - a swimming robot with a camera. The lake covers 2,700 acres overall so that's a lot of ground to cover.

Yes, I'm a diver and did some search & recovery in the past. There are many ROV's now which are relatively inexpensive (starting at around $5,000) and do the job well. With this being such a high-profile case, it would be a great opportunity for some team or organization to donate their services (hint, hint).

In an environment like this, it would be most efficient to locate the object to be recovered with the ROV, then recovering it using divers.

Here are some interesting links on one of these smaller ROV's available:

http://videoray.com
http://videoray.com/applications/law-enforcement/sar.html
http://videoray.com/news/press-releases/84-2005/124-under-ice-search-uses-multiple-micro-rovs.html

thanks, diveguy!!

from one of the sites:

With more than 2,500 Remotely Operated Vehicles (ROVs) in service around the world, VideoRay has clearly become the global leader in Observation ROV technology. VideoRay is an extremely versatile, portable, affordable, and reliable solution for underwater operations including surveys, offshore inspections, search & recovery, homeland & port security, science & research, fish farming, and other unique applications in underwater environments. “Plug and play” technology allows you to quickly attach sensors and accessories in the field so you can successfully complete your mission

http://videoray.com/news/press-releases/109-2013.html

BBM

Wonder if TES has one?

post from last night....fyi

 

[Money Girl]

My apologies MoneyGirl, IMO nobody was putting labels on anyone, I was asking for clarification on the labels. It was not my intent to label anyone with anything and I apologize if it seemed otherwise.

Wasn't talking about you or anyone in particular. Just a general statement. (I didn't even see the message you mentioned.)

 

[Money Girl]

Well...not necessarily. That's not clearly stated in that exchange, IMO.

IIRC, when Melissa interviewed MR, she tweeted that she checked with LE, and the text came from Dylan's cell phone.

 

[scorekeeper]

So if I am understanding you correctly, if a person displays 5 traits out of (a) disorder and only 3 out of (b) disorder than they are diagnosed with b. Right? Not a & b?

I agree it doesn't matter with respect to Dylan, I was just getting confused and wasn't sure. In my little world, I just say that they are freaking nuts and it kind of covers all the disorders. It's nice to know that some are peanuts and some are walnuts. Thank you for clearing it up.

BBM

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

my favorite diagnosis......have been using it a lot

not to mention 'jodi arias' nuts

 

[Seek&Find]

The U.S. Water Rescue Dive Team is committed to water safety and awareness. The Public Safety Dive Team is available for rapid response to provide governmental agencies and families with water rescue and recovery services throughout the United States and internationally.

Who is ERDi?
ERDI is the Public Safety diving (PSD) agency that trains Police, Fire and other public safety organizations in Search and Rescue techniques in just about every submerged environment known. ERDI trains departments on how to make and maintain their own PSD teams along with being the only Public Safety diving training agency that has their own insurance that endorses its own standards. All ERDI programs are OSHA and NFPA compliant. In fact, some of the largest successful and renown departments use ERDI Programs to conduct their training.

http://www.waterrescue.org/Home.html

(That team has a nice prayer & scripture on its page.)

http://www.rescuediver.org/teams/US-TEAMS.HTM (Natl Assoc of Rescue Divers)

This training provides knowledge and skill for DPS Divers to dive at the high altitudes in which most Utah lakes and reservoirs are found.

This training is critical to the safety of the DPS Divers as they deploy in high mountain lakes and reservoirs. A great majority of diving science is calculated at sea level. Diving at higher altitudes requires the application of a theoretical depth chart which has been created using extrapolated data. Some bodies of water in Utah are at such high altitudes, that the DPS Divers need to bo on-site for at least 12 hours before diving, just to give their bodies a chance to acclimate to the thin air.

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/diveteam/training.html

“We’d like to extend special thanks to everyone involved in the search and recovery effort. While we wish the outcome were different, the volunteers and employees spent long hours for nearly a week to locate Mr. Christiansen. Alerts from three highly trained search dogs with Search & Rescue Dogs of Colorado, an image created by side-scanning sonar and the willingness of the Hartsel Fire & Rescue Dive Team to dive in deep water at this high elevation reservoir were absolutely critical to the recovery effort” stated Tobey.

http://dnr.state.co.us/newsapp/press.asp?pressid=7080

 

[Ghostwheel]

I know it's just me, but I hate putting labels on people, and I especially hate to see people who are not doctors with a doctor-patient relationship putting a label on someone else.

It's not just you, I don't like labels either, but I do find it interesting to see some of the symptoms listed and think that some days I must have hyperactive narcissistic attention deficit sociopathic differences (I don't think it's a disorder, it seems pretty orderly to me). Those are the days when I wish everyone would go away and let me be the center of my own universe while I do 10 different chores at once (like painting the house, replacing the dishwasher, mowing the lawn, etc) as fast as I can.

 

[Seek&Find]

IIRC, when Melissa interviewed MR, she tweeted that she checked with LE, and the text came from Dylan's cell phone.

Yes, she said that. I don't find Melissa reliable. Moo

 

[NC Analyzer]

Yes, she said that. I don't find Melissa reliable. Moo

Meeee Either! :moo:

 

[Ghostwheel]

BBM

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

my favorite diagnosis......have been using it a lot

not to mention 'jodi arias' nuts

New phrase for the WS lexicon?