CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #46

[Emma Ems]

If that's all it was why would LE take it?

A thought could be that if Mark didn't recognize it, LE could have thought it was dropped by someone in the house and wanted to process as much of it as they could. Maybe call history, fingerprint it, etc. This was, again, just a thought.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm not sure what an autopsy could show at this point of time if the body was in a frozen over lake.

My only experience was with the murder of my employers son. The coroner was able to tell that he was choked unconscious and then thrown into the Sacramento river where he then drowned.

The body was in the river for six weeks in January/February but I'm not sure of the water temperature. It doesn't get below freezing around here much if at all.

I would assume that the very cold temperatures of that lake would preserve any remains for quite a while. MOO.

There is very detailed information on this on the web, and yes, it's amazing what can be determined post mortem even when they elements are involved. Out of sensitivity for family and friends who might be checking this thread I'm going to suggest folks Google it vs. describing it here. It's a horrible thought when you associate it with your loved one, although a natural consequence of the elements.

 

[Emma Ems]

There are actually several different models and brands that Tracphone uses. We have a Motorola we've had now for about 5 years (and still works really well... *knock on wood*). We got LE models for 2 of our daughters. I know there is at least one more brand sold in the stores around here, but can't remember off-hand what it is, and there's a chance that different models or brands are sold in different states.

There are also more providers than just Tracphone who provide pre-paid or "throw-away" cell phones/service. IIRC one in Colorado is "Cricket". [Again, we use them because of the ease of budgeting, frankly...]

They do have some pretty fancy ones now. But it could be any phone, from anybody at this point. Might be Mark's, might not be Mark's. Ugh. I was just thinking, I had thought about getting my little one one of the cheapest phones to play with since she really wanted to play with cells and the "fake" cells weren't cutting it with her. I thought that the basic one was a Samsung, lol. I have more thoughts to include but it will have to be a bit later, the timer on the stove just went off.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

I know LE brought in side scan SONAR but I don't understand why they wouldn't have access to the same type of equipment that Elaine is going to bring in? Could it be a cost issue? Surely that is not going to be cheap.

I really think they decided to wait and hope the body (if there) would rise. When that didn't happen, it was really too late and the lake was starting to freeze. Just MOO

 

[SmoothOperator]

IMO if he did harm Dylan it was not premeditated and was out of anger instead. Why did he report him missing so quickly? Well IMO he waited far to long and I find it odd that he came home and took a nap rather than looking for his child. Maybe he was afraid a body may be found in the lake or elsewhere and it would look really bad if he hadn't reported him missing? I still think that IF he did harm Dylan and put him in the lake, the plan was for it to look like an accidental drowning while fishing and he would surface rather quickly.

MOO is the reporting of Dylan's missing to authorities on Monday, 11/19 was not at all in Mark's "plan" AND IMO it came as a shock to him that it played out so quickly..IMO he wasn't expecting that at all..

I wonder how long MR would have had to cover his tracks if he just simply didn't report Dylan missing for a couple of days? At what point would an alarm have been raised by his mother, his friends? MR (if guilty of something) could have continued to text people as if he were Dylan and bought himself at least a couple of days.

MR's actions, to me, on the day of Dylan's disappearance, while not what I might do, are not out of the range of expected responses of a father who was initially not alarmed by his son's absence at 11:30 am.

Jmo but as I mentioned above the fact that Elaine IMMEDIATELY involved LE was something that Mark did not at all expect or anticipate..ie. the whole once I contacted ELAINE she made it into something much bigger(my paraphrasing)..

Regarding how long Mark would have been able to go without reporting Dylan's missing.. moo is that its obvious that it would not take long at all..his friend, RN had already text Sunday night and never got a reply and then immediately texting within literally minutes of the time Dylan was supposed to arrive Monday morning(RN text@6:46am when Dylan hadn't shown up@6:30am as was planned).. along with Elaine having text both Sunday night and Monday morning..MOO is that Mark absolutely knew that it was a minimal amount of time that he could keep Dylan's not being available to himself..

But imo Mark never dreamed that his merely asking around about anyone having seen Dylan during that Monday..IMO he never dreamed that would IMMEDIATELY lead to LE contact, missing report filed, and therefor LE involvement.. NEVER DID HE THINK IT WOULD HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY..

And imo this is exactly why we've heard Mark's opinion on the events of that evening and night being described with oozing sarcasm of once Elaine got word she really blew it into something much bigger...

Here's another reason I'm still on the fence. I just don't think MR has the capacity to shrewdly calculate and pull anything like this off. Of course I don't know what LE has collected as evidence thus far, but based on what I have seen of this man he doesn't seem capable of a sophisticated cover up scheme. Still on the fence. It would just be easier to say I believe we can attribute Dylan's disappearance to this unlikeable father, but despite his creepiness, I'm not ready to do that....yet.

And that's fine to be in whatever proverbial fence position that you(you in general, not personalized) desire..its our prerogative to what position we choose to have and to freely express and discuss.. I know I certainly have no desire to even attempt to change, sway, or convince anyone of anything, but rather am only interested in discussing the details, info, etc that we have wrt the case.. and hoping that the behind the scenes goings on are going to soon lead to Dylan's being found..

As far as Mark Redwine being a "smooth criminal"(my choice of words..lol) is IMO not even a possibility, nor IMO is a "Smooth criminal" necessary to have evaded arrest at a present point in time.. Really one need not look any further than some of the cases right here at WS.. to give one quick example, Satsuma, FL, Haleigh Cummings, and a group of extremely Unsophisticated, UNeducated, UNsmoothest of criminals ever.. yet Haleigh has been "disappeared" for now OVER 4 YEARS!..4 YEARS NO HALEIGH, AND 4 YEARS NO ARREST OR CHARGES FOR HALEIGH'S "DISAPPEARANCE" AKA MURDER...

moo is its far, far, far from necessary for the perpatrator of murders such as these to be sophisticated, clever, bright, "smooth criminals"..in fact IMO proof is that its just the opposite many, many times.. no smarts, no intelligence necessary to get away with these type murders sometimes temporarily, sometimes for great lengths of time, and sadly even sometimes for the remainder of their lives..

My thoughts are that there may not have been an elaborate cover up at all. I think it might be as simple as (IF he did something to him), in a panic he had to think of what to do with the body and quickly came up with the story of Dylan walked to the lake to go fishing and fell in and drowned, thinking he would surface shortly and it would be ruled an accidental drowning he placed him in the lake. I think that IF he did it and this is the case he never ever thought it would turn into what it has. IMO if this is the case the body may have gotten caught on something and is stuck in the lake. All MOO

I don't think there was anything elaborate about it whatsoever and I think that's why we're hearing conflicting statements. IMO IF he did it, it was NOT well thought out at all.

I could not agree more..there IMO is no elaborate, genius, smooth criminal at work here..

I think LE is withholding information from us!

YEP!..YOU BET LE IS WITHOLDING INFO FROM US, AS WELL THEY SHOULD!

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Sure wish we knew what kind of phone Dylan had. I believe it was a flip phone?

 

[RANCH]

There is very detailed information on this on the web, and yes, it's amazing what can be determined post mortem even when they elements are involved. Out of sensitivity for family and friends who might be checking this thread I'm going to suggest folks Google it vs. describing it here. It's a horrible thought when you associate it with your loved one, although a natural consequence of the elements.

Personally I will stay away from posting any gory details about human decomposition because at this point it's totally unnecessary in order to continue the discussion.

I do think that it's Ok to speculate about the ability for a coroner to determine the manner and even the cause of death if a body is recovered after the lake thaws. MOO.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Thanks Smooth, as usual, for an awesome post! I do have to agree with you that MR did not think Elaine would go straight to LE. That (to me) is quite evident in his comments.

I've seen so many (in general, nobody specific) make comments about his ability to 'commit the perfect murder' and IMO nothing could be further from the truth. I think (if he did it) he has not fared well at all in this. I just hope LE has enough or is close to having enough evidence to eventually make an arrest and get a conviction (if he did do it that is). It does take time to build a case. And it would be preferable to have a body as proof that a murder (or death) even occurred.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I know LE brought in side scan SONAR but I don't understand why they wouldn't have access to the same type of equipment that Elaine is going to bring in? Could it be a cost issue? Surely that is not going to be cheap.

I really think they decided to wait and hope the body (if there) would rise. When that didn't happen, it was really too late and the lake was starting to freeze. Just MOO

Resources. $. As always... : (

 

[Redhead72]

I know LE brought in side scan SONAR but I don't understand why they wouldn't have access to the same type of equipment that Elaine is going to bring in? Could it be a cost issue? Surely that is not going to be cheap.

I really think they decided to wait and hope the body (if there) would rise. When that didn't happen, it was really too late and the lake was starting to freeze. Just MOO

ITA in regard to the dive team's searches back in Nov/Dec. - it was just way to dangerous, IMO. Some of the divers may have even wanted to keep going, but were prohibited from doing so, simply due to the dangers.

IIRC there was talk of mini-subs and RC cameras besides the sonar equipment that the dive team had - I don't remember if this was just us posing the questions here at WS, or if that was actually confirmed as being a part of the equipment possessed by the team ER has hired.

I'm definitely assuming it's a cost issue in regard to the LE dive team perhaps not having the very latest "state of the art" technology that would need to be used in this type of a location.

 

[Redhead72]

There is very detailed information on this on the web, and yes, it's amazing what can be determined post mortem even when they elements are involved. Out of sensitivity for family and friends who might be checking this thread I'm going to suggest folks Google it vs. describing it here. It's a horrible thought when you associate it with your loved one, although a natural consequence of the elements.

My sincere apologies if anyone is offended by the post I did make... As you said there are much more detailed descriptions available through Google as to many of the questions that were brought up in the last few pages. If any of you think even I went too far in description, please alert a mod and if they want to delete anything I'm more than fine with it...

I tend to get "clinical" at times in regard to these things, but sometimes forget that it's not so easy for others to emotionally separate themselves -- especially the family and friends here... I am sorry for any further pain I may have caused. I will really try to be more sensitive to that...

 

[Bayou Mistress]

What is the brand of phone that comes in the little Tracphone starter bundle? Not sure if it matters or not but was thinking maybe the Samsung they found could have been a burner?

Samsung.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

My sincere apologies if anyone is offended by the post I did make... As you said there are much more detailed descriptions available through Google as to many of the questions that were brought up in the last few pages. If any of you think even I went too far in description, please alert a mod and if they want to delete anything I'm more than fine with it...

I tend to get "clinical" at times in regard to these things, but sometimes forget that it's not so easy for others to emotionally separate themselves -- especially the family and friends here... I am sorry for any further pain I may have caused. I will really try to be more sensitive to that...

I wasn't offended. Of course I get "clinical" too. So...

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

ITA in regard to the dive team's searches back in Nov/Dec. - it was just way to dangerous, IMO. Some of the divers may have even wanted to keep going, but were prohibited from doing so, simply due to the dangers.

IIRC there was talk of mini-subs and RC cameras besides the sonar equipment that the dive team had - I don't remember if this was just us posing the questions here at WS, or if that was actually confirmed as being a part of the equipment possessed by the team ER has hired.

I'm definitely assuming it's a cost issue in regard to the LE dive team perhaps not having the very latest "state of the art" technology that would need to be used in this type of a location.

I'm pretty sure I read about the team that Elaine is bringing in ON the official fb page. And I believe it was MH who was talking about them being the best of the best and having the best equipment and I believe he specifically stated SONAR and ROV's. I could be proven wrong though

 

[RANCH]

ITA in regard to the dive team's searches back in Nov/Dec. - it was just way to dangerous, IMO. Some of the divers may have even wanted to keep going, but were prohibited from doing so, simply due to the dangers.

IIRC there was talk of mini-subs and RC cameras besides the sonar equipment that the dive team had - I don't remember if this was just us posing the questions here at WS, or if that was actually confirmed as being a part of the equipment possessed by the team ER has hired.

I'm definitely assuming it's a cost issue in regard to the LE dive team perhaps not having the very latest "state of the art" technology that would need to be used in this type of a location.

I wonder if cost issues are behind this comment by La Plata Sheriff's Office spokesman Dan Bender.

"We had two of the dogs alerted on the surface of the lake. It could be a submerged deer or elk or something else," Bender said.

Did Sheriff officials downplay the dog alerts so that they could curb the search costs of the lake? If Bender had come out saying that the HRD dog alerts were a significant revelation in the investigation, the public would expect a search of the lake that got results. Maybe county budget concerns are a factor in the lake search by LE. MOO.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22063185/sunday-search-launched-missing-boy-laplata-county

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

I wonder if cost issues are behind this comment by La Plata Sheriff's Office spokesman Dan Bender.

Did Sheriff officials downplay the dog alerts so that they could curb the search costs of the lake? If Bender had come out saying that the HRD dog alerts were a significant revelation in the investigation, the public would expect a search of the lake that got results. Maybe county budget concerns are a factor in the lake search by LE. MOO.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22063185/sunday-search-launched-missing-boy-laplata-county

I don't get Bender's statement at all. SURELY being in law enforcement he knows the odds of not one but TWO dogs getting hits on the lake in error is very very low. And to suggest it might have been an animal almost sounds ignorant to me (no offense Mr Bender). Surely he would know they these dogs are trained not to hit on dead animals? Could you imagine if they did? They would be virtually useless because there are dead animal remains all over the place!

Budget...maybe? Or perhaps just stalling for time in the hopes that if a body were in there it would eventually rise to the surface and would be much easier to recover (and less costly).

 

[RANCH]

I don't get Bender's statement at all. SURELY being in law enforcement he knows the odds of not one but TWO dogs getting hits on the lake in error is very very low. And to suggest it might have been an animal almost sounds ignorant to me (no offense Mr Bender). Surely he would know they these dogs are trained not to hit on dead animals? Could you imagine if they did? They would be virtually useless because there are dead animal remains all over the place!

Budget...maybe? Or perhaps just stalling for time in the hopes that if a body were in there it would eventually rise to the surface and would be much easier to recover (and less costly).

I would say that a good number of us here on Websleuths know that well trained HRD dogs won't alert to dead animals but maybe Bender was counting on the majority of the citizens of La Plata county not knowing that fact.

I didn't know anything about HRD dogs until I joined Websleuths.

MOO.

 

[ColdHands]

A thought could be that if Mark didn't recognize it, LE could have thought it was dropped by someone in the house and wanted to process as much of it as they could. Maybe call history, fingerprint it, etc. This was, again, just a thought.

Jumping off your post, Emma. Would Mark have been at/in the house at the time of the forensic search to answer LE questions?

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Jumping off your post, Emma. Would Mark have been at/in the house at the time of the forensic search to answer LE questions?

I would think not?

 

[RANCH]

Jumping off your post, Emma. Would Mark have been at/in the house at the time of the forensic search to answer LE questions?

And jumping off of your post Coldhands, did Mark stay at his house after Dylan went missing and until LE executed the search warrant days later? In some situations the last place someone who is missing was seen is consider to be a crime scene and police keep it sealed until a search warrant is obtained.

Did that happen in this case? Did Mark leave the house on his own or did LE ask him to leave? Or did LE allow him to stay at a potential crime scene?