CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #10

[Salem]

Jessica has a memorial thread right here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187561"]Found Deceased CO - Memorial Thread for Jessica Ridgeway - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame] for those that might like to comment and follow the memorial tomorrow.

Salem

 

[absentia]

I wonder if the backpack didn't bring the investigation closer, but not too close, to the perp. that way he could watch and become involved in it without arousing suspicion.

I would like to go back to the day Jessica went missing.

1. The alleged perp had her without anyone looking for her for approximately 8 hours (8:30am - 4:30pm). She could have been taken to a remote area or kept near the immediate area.
2. I believe the backpack was left in Superior to move the investigation or to add more "suspects" for LE to look for. Wherever they were searching until the backpack was dropped off to me is a possible "hot spot" for the suspect(s).
3. Was the road still closed to cars where her body was found? I probably don't have this right but I thought the roads leading to the body location was recently closed. Was it reopened to general public before Jessica was found? If so, how long? If closed, was in still open to those on foot?
4. Possible someone knew Mom didn't take her phone upstairs with her because of the phone calls she had been receiving from some of the colleges (per family interview). Did she say something at work? Did someone suggest she turn her phone Off???

Or do we have a very lucky suspect??? Because if he didn't know that Mom slept during the day, he was operating very quickly and hopefully one of thos 1500 tips will lead LE to him/her.

 

[pinto]

It seems to me that someone could have used the road that circles around behind the two shacks. The larger of the two shacks looks suitable for hiding a vehicle.

It's only a short walk from the larger shack to the smaller shack, and a shorter walk from the smaller shack to the location of the culvert.

You're going to attract a lot more attention, and take much more time, driving around on that hillside than you are just stopping on the side of the road, pulling a bag out, and throwing it over a fence. you couldn't do it with lights off your car, too many gullies and things you need to see. the space is broad, visibility is good, but the land is varied, if that makes sens.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Not sure about other State's but in Pennsylvania it would seem the possession of the Fake ID would not matter:
(E.1) MISTAKE AS TO AGE.-- Under subsection (b) only, it is no defense that the defendant did not know the age of the child. Neither a misrepresentation of age by the child nor a bona fide belief that the person is over the specified age shall be a defense.

Holy crapoly! How on Earth could anyone know what someone's age really is? Does everyone just have to wait until the wrinkles appear?

That is a law that should not be.

 

[Foxfire]

HLN covering the Jessica Ridgeway case now..

 

[carbuff]

People keep mentioning dissecting. The sort of people I think of that would be familiar with that are doctors, college medical professors, high school science/biology teachers, taxidermists?, hunters, and students in the medical field.

Veterinarians. Possibly butchers and chefs.

 

[absentia]

those roads could also be hiked from any adjacent suburban areas to the north and/or east.

It seems to me that someone could have used the road that circles around behind the two shacks. The larger of the two shacks looks suitable for hiding a vehicle.

It's only a short walk from the larger shack to the smaller shack, and a shorter walk from the smaller shack to the location of the culvert.

 

[rocketman60]

I can speak from the computer side of that. No database is 100% safe, meaning that someone who shouldn't, might access it or that normal maintenance could contaminate it. If your DNA is in a database, that means they (most likely) have your name, birthdate, SSN, last know address, all relatives and who knows what else someone feels necessary to the identification of X person with X DNA. These records can get mixed up, especially when porting them to a new system (moving the records from one database to another). Over the course of a lifetime, some kind of update to the system will happen several times, each opening an opportunity for something to go wrong. (I know of an update of an RSO database that almost went severely wrong, except it was caught-barely-in time. I don't know if it ever got updated due to the problems with it.) From that point alone, I am wary.

As to it infringing on my privacy, it is nobody's business what my blood type, dna, ssn, phone number (if I don't want to give it), mother's maiden name, family status, or anything else is if it does not directly affect them at that time. Period. Just isn't. Will you tell me your real name and address and phone number here on line? No, because you have no idea who is looking at this. Same is true of any information you give to anyone. Just because someone works for a government agency doesn't make them trustworthy. There have been Govt people and LE who were not good people, how do I know if one of them might be looking at my DNA profile? Sure, some of that information is out there already, but I am more judicious than most about giving out my info, and I have a pretty good knowledge of which databases talk to each other, which ones don't, and which ones dump information on a regular basis.

Some would call it paranoid, some would call it safety conscious, but generally speaking, since I live in the USA and Freedom is supposed to be the cornerstone of what what the USA is all about, what is mine belongs to me, unless I choose to give it to someone else. Same with my DNA.

I would think the LE would do a DNA retest to verify.....I hope they would....JMO

 

[absentia]

daughter of a police chief. there's your issue there.

Holy crapoly! How on Earth could anyone know what someone's age really is? Does everyone just have to wait until the wrinkles appear?

That is a law that should not be.

 

[FWNana]

Just wondering, how is the age of a female to be determined by the prospective partner, if even her ID is not enough? Trying to think of this from a 19-year old guy's POV, lol...not that they would be likely to ask for ID anyway.

Especially when the girl "appears" to be that age.

 

[Celt1997]

Just wondering, how is the age of a female to be determined by the prospective partner, if even her ID is not enough? Trying to think of this from a 19-year old guy's POV, lol...not that they would be likely to ask for ID anyway.

Good question, but as a College male in PA we were always told, due to the number of girls using Fake ID's, to never just assume the girl in the bar we were chatting with was truly of age.

 

[Gabby66]

So let's play what if....Like anything there can be technical issues/mistakes happen when running DNA...so say you have your child's DNA taken at birth...even though you are the parent, at 18 they are their own person and you infringed on that right to privacy they would have had...so now your child is in the system and something horrible happens to another person..they find some DNA and test for it but there is a glitch (which might not be discovered for days, weeks, months, years, decades) and your child comes up as the "match" and although they are innocent they are a match and are arrested and unfortunately they can't afford a great defense and there is a ton on circumstantial evidence and that one smoking gun..DNA...but again there was a technical issue in that system but that is unknown so the jury finds your child guilty and now your child is in jail for life or worse the death penalty....So now tell me how that is ok?

Thank you...this is what I was looking for - some reasonable explanation as to why it is not OK, other than just "right to privacy", so I really appreciate these thoughts. How likely is a "glitch" to happen though? Maybe it's common - I truly don't know. Perhaps there are other reasons. I respect right to privacy; I really do. I just don't see how collecting DNA should be worrisome however, UNLESS 1. you plan to commit a crime or 2. these glitches really are likely to happen, and if that's the case, then yes, I would agree this may not be a good idea. I guess nothing is fool proof, but I'd say that the chances of these crimes diminishing MIGHT be reduced, the chances of finding the perps would likely increase, and the chances of being wrongfully accused would be slim. I guess given those chances, I'd prefer to take the slim chance of having my kid wrongfully accused over not being able to find his abductor.

 

[Ghostwheel]

You're going to attract a lot more attention, and take much more time, driving around on that hillside than you are just stopping on the side of the road, pulling a bag out, and throwing it over a fence. you couldn't do it with lights off your car, too many gullies and things you need to see. the space is broad, visibility is good, but the land is varied, if that makes sens.

And on October 5-10 the moon was in the third quarter phase with moonrise between 10:01pm and 1:46AM. It was dark out there.

 

[ColoGirl]

I was surprised at how much younger the guy that was picked up for the Cody, Wyoming abduction was than his police sketch made him look to me. Then it made me think, why did I think he was so much older after looking at his police sketch? I guess it's all relative. Or even a poor paradigm that he must be a dirty old man. But I should remind myself to broaden my frame of reference when looking at those...

 

[cluciano63]

Good question, but as a College male in PA we were always told, due to the number of girls using Fake ID's, to never just assume the girl in the bar we were chatting with was truly of age.

Okay, but how do you find out for sure? Hate to keep being OT here, but do you follow them and see if they go to a college or a high school?Cross-examine their friends?

 

[carbuff]

<snipped by me>

BTW, I would be surprised if the perp actually hiked in to the 82nd area, unless he parked his car a little further down the road at a different trailhead. It would be a really long hike over a good-sized ridge if he'd parked on 72 (the road to the north) or even along the basically empty Candelas Parkway. (For that matter, why not just go north? Candelas is supposedly under development, but it's basically empty except for coyotes.) I don't really see anyone deciding to hike over that ridge and all the way down just to leave a body that close to the road.

How far is it from the trailhead over the ridge to the road? Googlemaps looks like it's no more than a mile and a half?

 

[shefner]

The only way I would consent to DNA testing on my children is if I get to keep the information, in my possession only. It could be used if needed for identification etc. Once they reach the age of majority, the child would receive the DNA info from their guardians.

 

[Footwarrior]

Anyone from the area that can tell me what the cement buildings in Pattridge Park are? Initially the news was calling them "abandoned mine shafts." But they don't really look like shafts? I wonder if they have any historical significance? Otherwise, they might consider cleaning that area up. I couldn't find anything on them...

I live in Aurora and we have a lot of odd abandoned areas out east, cement structures, silos etc, all with creepy stories. In fact, E470 and shops at Smoky Hill/Gunclub used to be a big site of weird stuff. It has all been torn down and they biult right over it, but I hear the parking lot near the Safeway is now sinking...

The cement buildings are the remains of the Leyden coal mine that shut down in the 1940s. The mine provided the coal that powered the Denver trolley system. The mine shafts have been sealed for decades. Over the years, the buildings have slowly decayed.

The county classified this area as a geologic hazard due to risk that underground mine tunnels would collapse. That is why it has remained undeveloped. It was used for grazing until Arvada bought it as open space a few years back.

 

[Gabby66]

You are very trusting in government! I'll give just a few examples of how it could go wrong.

1) What if your baby's DNA is in a database somewhere, and someone with access to that database has a kid that needs a kidney, and determines your kid is the perfect match. So they track you down, steal your kid, and take his kidney.

2) Your ex brother in law works in the station that monitors all license plates coming into town. He hates you. He sees your license plate drive into town, so he finds you, and shoots you.

3) You are having an affair. Your license plate is recorded coming into town. One of the dispatchers knows your husband and tells him. You committed no crime, but your secrets have been revealed without your permission.

4) Your baby's DNA is on record. Your baby grows up with a genetic mental illness and commits a crime at age 16, leaving DNA behind. It is a minor crime, and you would do anything to protect your child. You want to get him the help he needs. But because he's in the database, he is located, tried as an adult, and sent to prison.

See? There are many, many ways that it invades privacy and could work against you more than it works for you.

This is all VERY reasonable and enlightening. I never thought of these examples, so thank you so much. This is really what I was looking for b/c I truly didn't understand why anyone would care. I'm not a very good "sleuth" really, but I like to come here to learn more about crimes that have happened and how I can use that information to protect my own family. Having a special needs daughter, that's all the more important to me. I really appreciate your reply!

 

[otto]

You're going to attract a lot more attention, and take much more time, driving around on that hillside than you are just stopping on the side of the road, pulling a bag out, and throwing it over a fence. you couldn't do it with lights off your car, too many gullies and things you need to see. the space is broad, visibility is good, but the land is varied, if that makes sens.

I'm thinking in terms of the road having been closed until a week before Jessica's body was found, and the low traffic use on the road at the time she was abducted ... but perhaps you're right ... perhaps there was a secondary location where the murder occurred.