CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #10

[Marah]

You're going to attract a lot more attention, and take much more time, driving around on that hillside than you are just stopping on the side of the road, pulling a bag out, and throwing it over a fence. you couldn't do it with lights off your car, too many gullies and things you need to see. the space is broad, visibility is good, but the land is varied, if that makes sens.

I came to this case late. Was she found in a bag? who found the bag and why did they find it?

 

[Celt1997]

Okay, but how do you find out for sure? Hate to keep being OT here, but do you follow them and see if they go to a college or a high school?Cross-examine their friends?

Again, good question. I dated, and subsequently married, someone who was in my same graduating year, so I never really had to worry about it.

 

[Madeleine74]

My impression is not that the perp was trying to "show off" or "openly display the body." That road is pitch black at night. He probably stopped and did the dump where he would not be seen, quickly, and not in a highly used area (like not a local green park with playground equipment and people walking/playing).

Dismembering implies wanting to cover it up or making detection more difficult or disposal easier. Or it could be part of someone's fantasy M.O. Any of it could be possible.

I think he did a dump 'n run without a lot of planning for that spot in particular. It was dark, easy, convenient, private. It appears no one saw a vehicle there since no one has reported seeing anything or anyone there during that 24 hr period from the time she went missing. She could have easily gone undetected for a few weeks or even a few months. He wouldn't know when she would be found.

That was the dump spot. There's nothing implying that's where he first took her.

 

[BlueIris]

Veterinarians. Possibly butchers and chefs.

Surgeons. Med students....

WARNING GROSS THOUGHTS BELOW THAT I WOULDN'T WANT TO READ / THINK ABOUT IF I WERE A CLOSE FRIEND OR ONE OF JESSICA'S LOVED ONES - IF THIS ISAPPLIES TO YOU, YOU ARE ADVISED TO STOP READING THIS POST B/C I"M WORRIED ABOUT THE IMPACT THESE THOUGHTS COULD HAVE ON YOU! FURTHER WARNING TO THOSE WITH A WEAK STOMACH - STOP READING NOW!








I skipped several lines in an effort to ensure people weren't viewing this in error after the warning. I read that LE couldn't even identify the gender of the remains they found. The word disected stood out for me - what if the inner sex organs (uterus etc) were removed somehow? I don't know how that would be done without leaving a hint as to whether the remains were male or female (I assume marks would be left either way outside the body, but what do I know?). Its possible all they found was the shell of remains that were removed of inner workings somehow that might identify it? The perp was described as organized. I wish we could clarify just how organized was he? Does that just apply to the way the abduction took place? Or does it carry through with how and where they were found? I suspect the how and where, along with what state they were in would apply. I know its gross, but if the remains were relieved of their inner organs, then it might point to someone very specific in this matter - someone who would know how to find the organs specifically, and remove them skillfully. Either way, it's horrific to think of what happened to this poor girl -- I don't think I'd ever recover if I knew / loved this poor kid. I'll skip several lines now so that when people post below me, they have to (hopefully) scroll up to see what all I wrote (trying to be sensitive to the loved ones etc). If you decide to quote me for some reason, can we pls just quote me by saying something like, "See Blue's graphic post above near post #)... rather than actually including the post? In quotes, people may not realize how graphic a post is, and might accidentally read it without meaning to... I really am trying to be aware of what a post like this could do to someone who knew and loved Jessica.















*************************just skipping lines so people have a decent shot of not seeing the post if they weren't wanting to and it appears as they move to the next post - hoping this will work************************************************************************

 

[otto]

I came to this case late. Was she found in a bag? who found the bag and why did they find it?

Jessica was found either in a black trash bag, or a black trash bag was found where she was found. She was found either in a culvert, or under a tree a few feet from the culvert. Trash collectors discovered her body on Wednesday last week.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think you're on to something, passionflower. I'm convinced it's someone local that is totally unknown to the family. He would have had to use a ruse to get her to trust him if he was unknown. If it was someone with ties to the Ridgeways, I think the FBI and PD would already be onto them. And maybe they are, and just not telling ... (I hope and pray this is the case!)

Another theory that really rings a bell - if it was someone working for the school department, they MIGHT have a list of teachers and students names, often times with phone numbers and maybe addresses. A family member of mine worked for the school department for several years, and was always given a booklet with the above information. This was as recent as 2005. Anyone know if this was the case over there in Westminster/Superior? And what really makes makes me wonder about this particular thing, is that the dogs supposedly tracked her to another school, if I heard and read correctly. I'm really thinking it could be someone employed at a school or with a child that is school age. Does anyone know if the local schools have Columbus Day off?

This is a very good point. Before I was a member of WS, we moved into a subdivision that has over 400 newly built houses.
Therefore, people could be coming from all over the place and have no history in the area. We pay an annual fee so that somebody can maintain the three entrance areas and they have a few organized activities each year for the young kids.

In the beginning, someone put together a book that lists all the residents names along with their children's names, address and phone number. Each house submitted their information but I dragged my feet I guess so only my husband and my name with addy was listed.
I remember feeling that maybe we looked unfriendly or something. Now I'm thinking that was smart as why would you advertise the names of your kids and where to find them to four hundred strangers? The last resident directory was printed in 2007 and lists only the adult homeowner's name/s, address and phone number, some include email addresses. The intention was to promote a neighborhood feeling I guess but is no longer being done at all. You never know what source might make it easier for a perp to target someone, especially a child.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I would like to go back to the day Jessica went missing.

1. The alleged perp had her without anyone looking for her for approximately 8 hours (8:30am - 4:30pm). She could have been taken to a remote area or kept near the immediate area.
2. I believe the backpack was left in Superior to move the investigation or to add more "suspects" for LE to look for. Wherever they were searching until the backpack was dropped off to me is a possible "hot spot" for the suspect(s).
3. Was the road still closed to cars where her body was found? I probably don't have this right but I thought the roads leading to the body location was recently closed. Was it reopened to general public before Jessica was found? If so, how long? If closed, was in still open to those on foot?
4. Possible someone knew Mom didn't take her phone upstairs with her because of the phone calls she had been receiving from some of the colleges (per family interview). Did she say something at work? Did someone suggest she turn her phone Off???

Or do we have a very lucky suspect??? Because if he didn't know that Mom slept during the day, he was operating very quickly and hopefully one of thos 1500 tips will lead LE to him/her.

I've thought about this a lot, either the perp got incredibly lucky or he knew that mom didn't keep her phone handy. I would think he had to know or worked very quickly on the assumption that they would be looking for him within an hour.

I don't know many parents who do not keep their phone by their side in case their child calls.

I wonder if someone who was close to the family is involved, possibly someone who was set up as a contact person for Jessica. Knowing that mom worked nights and slept during the day without her phone nearby, mom could have told Jessica to call them if she didn't answer. This person would know mom wouldn't get a call from the school.

 

[carbuff]

Thank you...this is what I was looking for - some reasonable explanation as to why it is not OK, other than just "right to privacy", so I really appreciate these thoughts. How likely is a "glitch" to happen though? Maybe it's common - I truly don't know. Perhaps there are other reasons. I respect right to privacy; I really do. I just don't see how collecting DNA should be worrisome however, UNLESS 1. you plan to commit a crime or 2. these glitches really are likely to happen, and if that's the case, then yes, I would agree this may not be a good idea. I guess nothing is fool proof, but I'd say that the chances of these crimes diminishing MIGHT be reduced, the chances of finding the perps would likely increase, and the chances of being wrongfully accused would be slim. I guess given those chances, I'd prefer to take the slim chance of having my kid wrongfully accused over not being able to find his abductor.

Another glitch with DNA and crime scenes is that it's not always clear when the DNA was placed there. If it's on somebody's body it's pretty clear, but if they find my DNA on the counter of a liquor store that's just been robbed, is that because I was the robber, or because I was there a week ago?

For me, the issue is more misuse than glitches. I've lived in a town where a vindictive sheriff's deputy used the state license plate database to blackmail people who stopped at a certain motel during their lunch breaks, and one of my friends was framed for drug possession by his ex-girlfriend's brother, who happened to be a cop.

I can't necessarily come up with scenarios where DNA information could be used in similar ways, but I'm sure people of ill intent will.

If we all have DNA in the database, and somebody hacks the database and steals our information, can they replicate our DNA for identity fraud issues? Yeah, kind of an SF-y scenario, but not that far ahead, either.

And what about if the government unit maintaining the database decides it's short of cash and accepts a big chunk of money from a corporation or two to use that database for marketing purposes? Could they send 24-hour-a-day advertising to my microchip?

 

[mmmagique]

This is all VERY reasonable and enlightening. I never thought of these examples, so thank you so much. This is really what I was looking for b/c I truly didn't understand why anyone would care. I'm not a very good "sleuth" really, but I like to come here to learn more about crimes that have happened and how I can use that information to protect my own family. Having a special needs daughter, that's all the more important to me. I really appreciate your reply!

I'm also guessing that if/when the government is totally in charge of our health care, many of us will not want to share all of our dna info with the powers that be. It seems to me, that could open up a whole pandora's box of issues, all leading back to the all powerful dollar.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Okay, but how do you find out for sure? Hate to keep being OT here, but do you follow them and see if they go to a college or a high school?Cross-examine their friends?

If you can't tell for sure, don't have sex with her until you know her well enough to know her real age!

 

[NC Analyzer]

People keep mentioning dissecting. The sort of people I think of that would be familiar with that are doctors, college medical professors, high school science/biology teachers, taxidermists?, hunters, and students in the medical field.

I don't believe anyone has suggested dissection. LE confirmed "body not intact" which is entirely different than dissection. Many are alluding to the perp dismembering the body but that doesn't take a medical expert or anyone with specific knowledge. Think Zahra Baker. The step-mother in that case was barely qualified as literate, much less intelligent.

Warning: Graphic information​

Another thing that people don't appear to understand is that if the body was dismembered, it doesn't mean there would be a tremendous amount of blood evidence. If the dismemberment occurred several hours after death, the body would not "bleed" out due to the blood pooling, etc. A body doesn't bleed after death.

 

[otto]

My impression is not that the perp was trying to "show off" or "openly display the body." That road is pitch black at night. He probably stopped and did the dump where he would not be seen, quickly, and not in a highly used area (like not a local green park with playground equipment and people walking/playing).

Dismembering implies wanting to cover it up or making detection more difficult or disposal easier. Or it could be part of someone's fantasy M.O. Any of it could be possible.

I think he did a dump 'n run without a lot of planning for that spot in particular. It was dark, easy, convenient, private. It appears no one saw a vehicle there since no one has reported seeing anything or anyone there during that 24 hr period from the time she went missing. She could have easily gone undetected for a few weeks or even a few months. He wouldn't know when she would be found.

That was the dump spot. There's nothing implying that's where he first took her.

There were 34 hours between the abduction and the first possible time that the backpack was left in a different neighborhood. There's no guarantee that she was murdered before her backpack was abandoned, although I'm of the opinion that it happened in that order.

We don't know what has been reported in terms of sighting or tips at the location where Jessica was found - no info has been released. We don't know whether she was murdered at that location or if her body was placed there at a later time - but within 36 hours of her disappearance. No info. has been released ... therefore we cannot assume that this was a "dump site", or the scene of the murder.

 

[i.b.nora]

It's not that he's a bad person to be around for awhile at social events. It's hard to explain why I don't like him. I've always felt something was off with him. Much the same way I felt about my former boss (Dan Dewild for any locals who are familiar with the case) who is now in jail and awaiting trial for killing his ex wife. It's just a gut feeling I've had since I met him that I can't seem to get rid of.

Given what you have said in this post and the others, I can only encourage you to report to The Westminster Police. Just do it. You can call, or you can email.
I just googled Dan Dewild!

 

[Shelby2]

My impression is not that the perp was trying to "show off" or "openly display the body." That road is pitch black at night. He probably stopped and did the dump where he would not be seen, quickly, and not in a highly used area (like not a local green park with playground equipment and people walking/playing).

Dismembering implies wanting to cover it up or making detection more difficult or disposal easier. Or it could be part of someone's fantasy M.O. Any of it could be possible.

I think he did a dump 'n run without a lot of planning for that spot in particular. It was dark, easy, convenient, private. It appears no one saw a vehicle there since no one has reported seeing anything or anyone there during that 24 hr period from the time she went missing. She could have easily gone undetected for a few weeks or even a few months. He wouldn't know when she would be found.

That was the dump spot. There's nothing implying that's where he first took her.

Unless, he had been planning this for months. The FBI said he probably fantasized about this for a long time. If he had been planning this, as the FBI indicates he is an 'organized' killer, he would have probably planned where to leave her body.

 

[Hatfield]

I live quite a bit further south of Westminster and I would consider our area "very safe" (whatever that means these days) and children are often seen waking to and from school alone. My friend and I did an experiment Friday. I drove down a fairly busy street that passes right by a public park and a large housing development. My friend was walking down the sidewalk. I pulled off to the side slowly and we pretended I grabbed her and pushed her head down in the car and drove away.

It was amazing to us how incredibly fast I could do this and that to our knowledge no one noticed us. I think that no matter how careful children are, if a perpetrator really wants to grab one off the street - he can easily succeed and get out of the area before anyone is the wiser. I think this is what happened here. He most likely overpowered her easily, or could have quickly rendered her helpless while he got away from the area. Think of how many people are always on their cell phones and not even paying attention to what's going on around them.

Why he didn't destroy her backpack and water bottle actually surprises me. It's like he wanted to toy with the public and the police by dropping it - giving us a little bit of hope. Or maybe a false lead.

Re: Bolded part.

I mean no disrepect, but people should NEVER do anything like this. This sort of thing could have gone horribly wrong if an innocent bystander thought it was a real abduction and took out a concealed weapon and used it to "rescue the victim".

 

[Gabby66]

"See Blue's graphic post above near post #)

I think you have a good point. The word "Disecting" is very different from "Dismembering" or "Detached", etc. I have not read anything using that term, but if that was stated, it brings a whole different light to what may have occured. Makes me think of someone in the medical field. I'm not sure necessarily that every hunter could identify all of the appropriate gender parts.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I know that there has been someone hear who voiced a strong opinion about DNA testing babies at birth....can't rememeber who that was. To that person, and anyone else who wants to comment....

Why are you opposed to this? I respect right to privacy, but can there be grave errors in this matching? Personally, if I'm not guilty of a crime, I can't imagine why I would ever care that I had given my DNA at birth. I also think that this could cause people to think twice before commiting crimes.

My son is pursuing a career with the FBI. He did a research paper on a city which I beleive was in Canada. They took a video of every license plate entering and leaving town. His paper was about our right to privacy. I guess I don't understand how that infringes on my privacy, if I didn't do anything wrong? It's not an inconvenience to me. Now, I can understand if people want to just randomly come in and check my computer and read every private e-mail, or follow me all over town with a video camera where I may do something legal, but yet embarrasing (like being a man, which I'm not, going to an adult bookstore or something)....but general videos and/or testing babies' DNA? I don't understand why that's a problem. Please enlighten me and I truly ask that respectfully b/c I'm curious. TIA

I am one person who opposes it.

The general principle is that unless I have committed a crime, don't treat me like a criminal. It degrades both of us to live that way.

There are so many ways in which personal information can be used and misused that it's hard for me to pick one post-sized example. Take the following as just a few of literally hundreds of ways this can go wrong.

Think of the latest in forensic DNA testing, touch DNA. Now imagine that you are shopping for a hoodie and you're looking for a particular design (sports team, clever saying or whatever). You sort through several racks of hoodies, leaving your skin cells on every one.

Now imagine that someone buys one of those hoodies you touched and is wearing it when they become the victim of a violent crime. LE tests the hoodie for touch DNA and bingo! there's your DNA right there.

Now let's say that you were home asleep at the time of the crime. What happens if the victim then ID's you as the assailant? At the very least, you're going to spend some very unpleasant hours with the officer(s) investigating the crime. At worst, you could be charged, convicted and jailed for many years.

Another way DNA registry could go wrong: security of the databank. Many large organisations, from private companies to the federal government, have been hacked and had the private information of literally millions of people compromised.

Right now, DNA technology can only reveal a comparative handful of things about a person. As time and research go forward, what can be determined solely via DNA will increase.

So, let's say that you have the gene for Huntington's Disease, an untreatable and incurable neurological condition that invariably kills the person; onset is anywhere from early 20s to middle 40s, depending on how many copies of the defective part of the gene the person has.

Think anyone but the person who has the gene wouldn't be interested? Think again. For instance, there are insurance companies that would be willing to pay for a database of names of people who have the Huntington's gene, so that they can set the premiums higher for those people.

How about when DNA can predict who is highly pre-disposed for a common condition such as arthritis or diabetes? The Wall Street debacle revealed that big companies have no better ethics than what are actively and vigorously enforced.

Another scenario: let's say you decide you're tired of politics as usual in your city or your county or your state. You're opponent finds out that you are pre-disposed to heart attacks and diabetes, then uses that information to start questioning the state of your health. They use surveillance methods to make footage of your once-weekly excursions to ice cream parlours and pizza joints with friends to support the insinuation that you won't live to finish out your term.

 

[nursebeeme]

There were 34 hours between the abduction and the first possible time that the backpack was left in a different neighborhood. There's no guarantee that she was murdered before her backpack was abandoned, although I'm of the opinion that it happened in that order.

We don't know what has been reported in terms of sighting or tips at the location where Jessica was found - no info has been released. We don't know whether she was murdered at that location or if her body was placed there at a later time - but within 36 hours of her disappearance. No info. has been released ... therefore we cannot assume that this was a "dump site", or the scene of the murder.

ita otto

 

[otto]

"See Blue's graphic post above near post #)

I think you have a good point. The word "Disecting" is very different from "Dismembering" or "Detached", etc. I have not read anything using that term, but if that was stated, it brings a whole different light to what may have occured. Makes me think of someone in the medical field. I'm not sure necessarily that every hunter could identify all of the appropriate gender parts.

Police have only said that the body was "not intact". There is no information regarding why the body was not intact (deliberate mutilation, or animal activity). Talking heads have used more graphic and misleading terms - but there is no information to support the terms used by the talking heads in the media.

 

[Ari]

"See Blue's graphic post above near post #)

I think you have a good point. The word "Disecting" is very different from "Dismembering" or "Detached", etc. I have not read anything using that term, but if that was stated, it brings a whole different light to what may have occured. Makes me think of someone in the medical field. I'm not sure necessarily that every hunter could identify all of the appropriate gender parts.

Someone did mention that term, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up.