CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #10

[manzana]

It is of great interest to me. Morbid though it may be, whether the remains were not intact due to predation or due to specific actions taken by the perp can tell alot about the perp, etc.

This seems clear to me, the not intact means that they, LE, can tell that she was dismembered by man, there may be sloppiness coming from later animal ravaging but there were obvious clean cuts that were not animal related. I do not think that LE can rule out the possibility that animals did run off with the rest of her remains. It is possible all remains were dumped in same spot but were later removed/devoured by animals.

 

[miabellamoure]

If LE was not immediately able to determine gender of the remains, "dissection" seems to be a possible explanation. It is equally possible that upper torso with upper limbs to the wrist and legs were found, meaning no fingerprints, skull, or genitals were found. I do not know whether or not Jessica was still in a "child's body" meaning her upper torso was not easily distinguishable as to gender. I am also reminded of the fact that the remains of Carnel Chamberlain were "not able to be immediately identified" due to having been burned, even though common sense would dictate that degree of decomposition, size of body, and lack of any other person matching that description being "missing" in the right time frame. Of course, it was even more clear in CC's case, as it was unlikely that someone outside the family unit could have gotten under the porch to bury a child.

Unless I missed LE stating that the remains could not be identified as to gender than I am going to stick with the idea that it was just simply that they were not going to specify anything about these remains until they could positively ID them.

 

[frankie069]

The mom said that the police took the sheets "for the dogs." They made up her bed with fresh sheets after that. So this was done after she woke up, called the police, and the police had already been at her house investigating.

Thank you for that. Do we know if the friends have said anything to LE or on an interview and do we know if the neighbors saw her actually leave the house for school, once again, that is such a busy time of the morning, someone saw something, whether it be Jessica walking or Jessica not leaving her house. I cannot imagine no one saw her leaving for school.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think that IF J's body was dissected and/or cut by the perp, it has to have anything to do with the perp's line of work or background. Maybe it just some glub who did it for transportation purposes, if in fact it was done. Maybe we will never know why. But I am sure that LE knows whether it was done in a "professional" manner or not and are using that info,if so.

 

[b2alicia]

Hello all, Newbie here.
I've lurked over here for a long time - Since the Shantina and Azriel Smiley case. But I finally joined when everything started with little Jessica.
This has hit me hard because it's not only in my backyard so to speak, but where she was found is less than 2 miles as the crow flies, from where some family has just moved.

So it's incredibly surreal being that this is in an area I've been in and spent plenty of time on the road she was on, etc.
What's been niggling me at times since this happened is where my in laws are living. It's a BRAND new housing development, it's not finished, they're still building and working on housing over there.
I guess my first thought when I found out about the body being found over there was that it would possibly have been very easy for one of the workers over at the development, to be involved. They've been working over there for over a year now, and they hire guys who just come into town....So I've wondered if they've checked out that construction company at all (according to in laws, that community wasn't checked I don't think, where they're living), they've been here long enough someone who started working for them with these houses may not be from here, but they've been here long enough to know their way around...

.plus, I wondered if any evidence could have been gotten rid of over in that housing area because they've got stuff being buried or built over or concreted in every day or so. Although I have no idea then, why they wouldn't have buried her there totally. But who knows, this is obvious a sick individual.
I'm probably far off, but it was just a random wondering from me.....

So those ARE new houses....I was thinking the same thing.

 

[LisaB]

Well, to be clear, there is a lot of information to support dissection. But none of it is official, so we can't consider it fact. But the social media circles and comments on news articles are all buzzing about it. They all have people whose relatives work at the WPD and they claim to know inside information. All of this inside information talks about the degree to which she was dismembered. And it is all from different, various sources who claim to be in the know. That said, it is all unsubstantiated, not reported by police, and we can't verify it.

Are the unofficial reports consistent with one another as to the degree of dismemberment?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I guess I will repost this again to see if anyone knows. Do we know if Jessica's 2 friends told that she never showed up. Do we know if the neighbors usually saw her and that morning when she supposedly left for school either they did see her leave or they didnt. Do we know anything out of the ordinary. I also heard her bedroom was fully cleaned and the bed made, now the mom just got home from work so when was this done.

Don't know about the neighbours.

The friend she was supposed to meet at the park was there with his father; they waited until about 8:40 am, then drove to school (I suspect they thought there had been a mistake in communication).

LE said fairly early that there was a possible witness that saw Jessica walking towards the park that day but nothing further has been said about that.

After LE took Jessica's bed sheets to use as scent articles for the dogs, Jessica's family did the laundry and made her bed up all nice and fresh, with her stuffed animals and sleeping bag making her nest the way she liked it. They cleaned up her whole room to welcome her home.

Makes me choke up to think about the hope and love that went into those tasks.

 

[mck16]

In early pictures of the culvert, road, etc it clearly showed that there was a pull off to park or turn around. I think the perp had every intention of burying the bag, but was interpreted or thought he saw a car coming. So, he tossed the bag and just took off. Or he placed it in the culvert and then animals got to it. I also think the backpack was placed in that paper sack to move it from wherever the crime took place and he was trying to hide the fact it was a backpack. He made it look like a sack of groceries. For that reason I do believe he lives with someone or in an area where people are. Apartment maybe. If the body was mutilated I think it was out of rage. jmo and feel free to disagree.

 

[Tokalu]

I am not quite sure after reading all the posts why everyone is so fascinated with the fact that this little girl was dismembered

I don't think that "fascinated" is the right word, at all. The way that the killer disposed the victim says a lot about who he could be and what his motives are. IMO, everyone here is just using whatever clues we have to go on to unearth new theories or information, in an effort to possibly help solve the case. There are many gruesome websites that do glorify the horrendous details of crimes, but I don't think WS is one of them.

I could only hope if I ever had a family member have this happen to them I would not read it like it is being displayed on this site. JMO I know but think about it.

I would understand 100% if someone's family did not want to read this forum, however I truly believe that most families do/would understand and appreciate what is done here at WS. The focus here is 100% on the victims, and the victims families, JMHO.

Also, why are we calling the perp a man. There are a lot of vicious women out there as well.

A profile of the killer was released, (albeit it was more "common sense" than anything ground breaking), and the profile states LE believes the perp is a man. Statistically speaking, nearly all crimes of this nature are committed by men. There is always an exception to every rule, however the evidence thus far has made me feel very confident of this fact. I believe that the crime was sexually motivated - whereas I'd say 99% of women killers do so for attention, out of "convenience" (like Casey Anthony), to get back at someone (what was that girls name in San Antonio that killed her infant, but said she gave him away?), or because they're insane (this may go hand in hand with the attention thing). If there is a sex abuse aspect to the killing, it is because the woman is covering up for something dad/stepdad/boyfriend did to the victim. Women are more likely to kill their own child than someone else's. I've never heard of a woman serial killer who targeted random children like this case, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[GrainneDhu]

not an issue.

If the target isn't doing as I say, and my gun is pointed at them, and they threaten me in a manner, that I feel my life is being threaten, then they will be taken down.

But that is far from the scenario you were responding to: two people, one in a car the other on the sidewalk, running an experiment to see how quickly the one on the sidewalk could be dragged into the car.

In that scenario, neither person might even be looking at you, let alone threatening you.

 

[Footwarrior]

To the locals. In regards to the garbage truck that is still there, is there also LE staying with it the whole time? It makes no sense that they would just leave something connected to a case out in the open to be contaminated...

Of course, if it's not connected, then... kwim?

I took photos of the site around sunrise on Saturday morning and had the place completely to myself.

Where the body was found.

Looking east.

Looking west.

 

[RoseTree]

Re: Bolded part.

I mean no disrepect, but people should NEVER do anything like this. This sort of thing could have gone horribly wrong if an innocent bystander thought it was a real abduction and took out a concealed weapon and used it to "rescue the victim".

A distant relative (by marriage) of mine was arrested for pulling out his gun when a guy was holding his girlfriend's hair back while she vomited. In the dark, it looked like a much different thing.

 

[b2alicia]

My impression is not that the perp was trying to "show off" or "openly display the body." That road is pitch black at night. He probably stopped and did the dump where he would not be seen, quickly, and not in a highly used area (like not a local green park with playground equipment and people walking/playing).

Dismembering implies wanting to cover it up or making detection more difficult or disposal easier. Or it could be part of someone's fantasy M.O. Any of it could be possible.

I think he did a dump 'n run without a lot of planning for that spot in particular. It was dark, easy, convenient, private. It appears no one saw a vehicle there since no one has reported seeing anything or anyone there during that 24 hr period from the time she went missing. She could have easily gone undetected for a few weeks or even a few months. He wouldn't know when she would be found.

That was the dump spot. There's nothing implying that's where he first took her.

I agree with that, Madeleine. I think it was a quick disposal spot where he could leave the garbage bag in about 30 seconds , then drive off without being seen.

 

[nursebeeme]

I took photos of the site around sunrise on Saturday morning and had the place completely to myself.

Where the body was found.

Looking east.

Looking west.

thank you for sharing those footwarrior... the tree just is so profound... seeing it sitting there like that with all the ribbons on it.

 

[SurfieTX]

The Westminster PD has said over and over that they are the only source to trust. At this point on their FB page, they are asking for anyone to call in with tips regarding changes in behavior or routine.

I might be graphic here, so bear with me. For locals this means, anyone buying coolers (Grant Haze), trash bags and cleaning supplies (Patrick Mikes' son), driving aimlessly (Amber alert unnamed suspect), anyone shopping at Home Depot or similar store for duct tape/hacksaw/shovel (Christian Aguilar), detailing a car and parking it in a strange location (Summer Inman), etc.

I'm sorry to quote myself. I really want this SOB caught. We have a lot of guests and locals here, and many haven't followed as much ugliness as we have. The WMPD is depending on tips for changes in behavior and routines.

As we all know, Walmart is a favorite perp place. Also, there are 'dollar stores,' gas stations, etc. People work there and may not have realized what they observed. Many employees of these stores know exactly what their routines are and what they buy. (My DD still works at DG and tells me stories about her favorite, everyday customers who buy cat food and beer...lol)

Anyone else want to chime in on things to jog memories?

 

[GrainneDhu]

In early pictures of the culvert, road, etc it clearly showed that there was a pull off to park or turn around. I think the perp had every intention of burying the bag, but was interpreted or thought he saw a car coming. So, he tossed the bag and just took off. Or he placed it in the culvert and then animals got to it. I also think the backpack was placed in that paper sack to move it from wherever the crime took place and he was trying to hide the fact it was a backpack. He made it look like a sack of groceries. For that reason I do believe he lives with someone or in an area where people are. Apartment maybe. If the body was mutilated I think it was out of rage. jmo and feel free to disagree.

Minor note: the paper sack was not found with the backpack in it. That sack was a paper evidence bag that LE placed the backpack in.

 

[mck16]

Minor note: the paper sack was not found with the backpack in it. That sack was a paper evidence bag that LE placed the backpack in.

Thanks Grainne, I have heard both so wasnt sure. Course not unusual as we have heard so many different versions of everything. ty

 

[rpgman]

But that is far from the scenario you were responding to: two people, one in a car the other on the sidewalk, running an experiment to see how quickly the one on the sidewalk could be dragged into the car.

In that scenario, neither person might even be looking at you, let alone threatening you.

Look, I understand what ur saying.

The scenario was a guy jumping out of a car, taken a female.

I have a carry permit, and if I saw it, the first thing I would do is pull my gun, and make verbal commands.

To me, doesn't matter if the would be perp is deaf.....if their not complying, I still have my gun on them and their detained until the police arrive.

If it's fast, and their not complying, and they speed off....if I have a clear shot, their tires are going to be hit or their engine.

And, if I confront them, and one or the other or both are deaf, their still being detained.

Until my life is threaten, or someone else's life is, I'm not shooting. K?

 

[frankie069]

Women are more likely to kill their own child than someone else's. I've never heard of a woman serial killer who targeted random children like this case, correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with this statement but considering that CODIS has not apparently gotten a hit on this type of killing, we can then speculate that it can be a woman. <modsnip>

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jessica-ridgeway-killing-police-suspect-abductions/story?id=17478819

Police in Arvada, Colo., are looking for a man suspected of trying to abduct two children a few weeks before 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway's killing to see whether there is a possible connection.

In two reported incidents on Sept. 9 and Sept. 12, Arvada police said an 8- and 9-year-old were nearly abducted, according to police.

"Both of them said they were offered candy to get into the vehicle. In both incidences, they knew to run and tell an adult," Arvada police spokeswoman Jill McGranahan told ABC News affiliate KMGH-TV.

This is the guy with the blue sedan, right? The one with a pretty thin/groomed beard in the artists rendition.