CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

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If he didn't want her found quickly why didn't he just bury her? I feel like the dismemberment has a whole other meaning. I have read that dismemberment was rage. They turn the blame for their crime toward the victim I believe. jmo

The soil is pretty hard to dig around here. It is very hard especially with the drought conditions. When we renovated this house, we put in a garden area and it took a professional landscaper with a big backhoe to dig it up and then add tons of amended soil etc. to make even somewhat suitable for planting or digging. I think digging a grave of any significant depth would be a monumental task.
 
Like he was angry with Jessica for "making" him do something he didn't want to or knew he shouldn't? Made him lose control? Interesting theory. I think I'm going to mull this one over.

JMO...
I was wondering if maybe he mistakenly thought Jessica was a boy, and maybe that is why the rage in dismembering her. If it is the same perp that was trying to lure boys, he may have seen the glasses and made a mistake, and then took his rage out on her.

I do feel this perp is a relatively young person. I used to think maybe just young-minded, but now I am leaning towards definitely being young aged. The placement of remains and dismemberment makes me think he was acting like a raged spoiled juvenile brat, with a little crazy on the side, and someone that watched CSI shows. Perhaps this person struggled in high school with his sexuality or something or maybe bullied for his sexuality, and now that he is out of school, he is losing it. He is acting out for sure, and needs to be stopped quickly.
 
OR perp choose disposal site because he is local and because it is a teen hang out type place.

So what would make him not stand out in teen hangout - if he is in the age group that frequents the area.

I still get a 19 to 22 feel from this perp. Still wholeheartedly feel he is local and still think this may be his first murder. Do not sadly feel it will be his last if he is not apprehended.

If the perp was local, and he knew this was a place where teens etc hung out, and where phtog's attended for various photo shoots, its possible he was thinking that a place like this would probably contain DNA from all sorts of individuals, and he may have figured this would further stall police in hunting him down. Just thinking out loud.
 
I wonder if anyone knows the history of that shed/shack near the crime scene and when it was tagged. Lettering looks quite weathered.:

Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here.

The original phrase is from concentration camp gates; however, could someone who had rage from being sent to or released from prison have written that on the wall?

I have researched the area as well, and have learned that it may have been a site used by KKK members way back when...
 
True. I want to follow and cuss people out who toss lit cigarettes out their windows while there are dozens of fires at the time.

I know! I have called the sheriff *once* here and it was this last summer about people shooting fireworks.

As for it being late for fires, just saw two new ones (different part of state). I think we will be remain well into fire danger until we get lots of significant snow.
 
I believe the dismemberment (if indeed this was done) implies an older perp.

It also implies an intelligent, organised killer.

I personally would place him at nearer 30 or 40.

I believe the placement and condition of her body was intentional and carries a meaning for the perp.

If that place is a teen hangout, it probably has been a teen hangout for decades.

This perp was either one of those past teenagers hanging out, or he was excluded from the group.

I would pick the latter.

So, to me - older, organised, intelligent, with some sort of resentment or grudge to the locals...the teenage group he was excluded from are now adults themselves, possibly prominent citizens of the town now.

Also, this guy lived in that town as a teenager. I will bet the house on this.

My opinion only as usual.

:cow:

"Older perp" ....age 30-40??? I think we would have to agree that the terminology "older" is in the eye of the speaker, LOL! To me, that would define a perp as a "younger" person!

(BTW: this was not intended to be snarky in any way...just chuckling at myself for how I define "older" vs how someone else defines "older" LOL)
 
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Statement about being confined himself inside of barbed wire/fencing, i.e. juvenile detention center and/or prison?

But also, how far off the road was this? Sorry if it's already been posted.
I'm just trying to calculate. My hubby is a strong man. If he were to lift something from the back of his truck and throw it out yonder, he would rIse it over his head and shoulders and aim. And more than likely he would be successful in his destination.
So, can anyone tell me if where her body was found was in throwing distance?
So sorry if this offends.
But, if he or they threw her body into the fenced area, then they knew it was a fenced area. Actually, no matter what, they knew it was a fenced area I guess.
The perp intentionally placed her somewhat body in a fenced area!
It wasn't a random drop!
And if her body wasn't a random drop than neither is her backpack!
Jmo
 
very interesting article from today about 'awareness space'



**much more at link**
http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html

Thanks Nurse, very interesting reading and goes along the lines of my thinking. I honestly believe this perp's awareness space is a huge factor here, from his selection of victim (I feel in his own backyard/neighborhood/highest level of comfortably) to the areas the backpack and remains were left (outer edge of area of awareness) yet still areas he feels comfortable travelling to, most likely along well used routes, familiar to him.

off to read more at nursebeeme's link.
 
thanks Nursie! The pdf I had been reading and posted to share with anyone that might be interested also talks about awareness spaces of violent ( sex)offenders.

I read that too... thanks Kat!

The geographical profiling/ awareness space always has been interesting to me and I think can find a perp or know where he or she may be. Just like the article said: DNA is great for convictions or tying someone to the crime but it is the awareness space analysis that helps determine who did it and where to find that person.

(the guy really blew it on covering up his "awareness space" by where he placed the back pack... I hope they are able to really use that to their benefit to find this guy)
 
"Older perp" ....age 30-40??? I think we would have to agree that the terminology "older" is in the eye of the speaker, LOL! To me, that would define a perp as a "younger" person!

(BTW: this was not intended to be snarky in any way...just chuckling at myself for how I define "older" vs how someone else defines "older" LOL)

I was replying specifically to the poster who opined it was a "younger" perp in their 20s.
 
Personally, from everything I've read, I think this is a typical sexually motivated stranger abduction and the guy is most likely a total moron, they usually are. I think the how and why of her placement will make more sense when we find the guy and IMO he will tell LE about the crime. The dismemberment was to make things easier for him to transport. I know a lot of people here are new and I really don't mean to sound cold but you have to remember, he doesn't value or understand human life. To an abductor the abducted person evokes as much emotion to them as the telephone on the wall.

ETA

If it turns out this was NOT sexually motivated then we have a whole different thing going on here. But I would be very, very surprised if it was a stranger abduction of a child that was only for murder.

Yes, ITA with everything you said.

I was talking with a friend about this case last night, and how horrible it was. He said, you know, dismemberment is a really horrible thing, especially when we are talking about a child. Horrible doesn't even feel like a strong enough word to describe what it makes you feel. But, think about what's on TV... and think about the person who did this. Dexter dismembers a body every time he kills... which is, apparently, every episode? (I've only watched a few episodes on Netflix and didn't like it, so am not sure what the show is about...). He said, as sick as it sounds, that dismemberment is probably not such a big deal to people who obviously have so little regard for human life in the first place. I think he's onto something... anyone with an ounce of empathy would never abduct a child to begin with. So we can't approach this from a place of empathy because it just doesn't fit... the guy who did this does not think like us. So I think my friend was onto something, and I think that, for the person who did this, the choice to dismember was a pragmatic choice more than a sadistic choice... if that makes sense.

ETA... just to clarify that I don't mean to claim that the person who did this did so because he watches Dexter, but just to comment on the general knowledge of dismemberment in popular culture, as well as knowledge of forensics investigations in popular culture and how these sorts of things, but particularly dismemberment, tend to, through familiarization via popular culture, can maybe seem like pragmatic choices to those who commit murder.
 
If the perp was local, and he knew this was a place where teens etc hung out, and where phtog's attended for various photo shoots, its possible he was thinking that a place like this would probably contain DNA from all sorts of individuals, and he may have figured this would further stall police in hunting him down. Just thinking out loud.

I am thinking if this area is well visited by a number of persons for a variety of reasons, he would probably assume that there would be lots of DNA, fingerprints, palm prints, cig wrappers, and other various bits of litter from any one of one hundred possible donors at any given time to be gleaned from this area. Heck, even his own if I am right and the open space is an area he frequents or has frequented in the past.

Sort of like hiding a needle in a pile of needles if you will. That could also be a factor in his thinking.
 
I am going to snip another bit of this article that discusses the areas in jessica's case and how they could relate to the killer's awareness space:

As can be seen on the maps, there are nearly continuous open space lands west of Jessica’s neighborhood, bordered by 82nd Avenue on the south, Marshall Road on the north, Highway 93 on the west and McCaslin Boulevard and Indiana Street on the east.

From Jessica’s neighborhood, both 82nd Avenue going west and McCaslin Boulevard going north fall along natural transportation corridors away from the neighborhood and possible home area of the killer. Both the body and the backpack were found along these transportation corridors, near the edge of these open lands. The body was located along an uninhabited section of 82nd Avenue, just about a half-mile from where that road would have connected to the more heavily traveled (and therefore less desirable) Highway 93. The body’s location was just 5.25 miles, as the crow flies, from Jessica’s point of abduction, which occurred somewhere in a 650-foot stretch of Moore Street between her home and Chelsea Park, where she was supposed to meet a friend before walking to school. The backpack was found four miles from Jessica’s point of abduction, just a block off of McCaslin Boulevard, on the east side of these same open lands. The subdivision where the backpack was found may have offered a more private setting for the killer to throw the pack from a vehicle, or it may have been placed carefully where it was found because child murderers are sick individuals and often seek to mislead or even taunt the law enforcement officers trying to track them down.

What matters in this case is that the research of other child abduction murder cases places the highest probabilities on the assumptions that both 82nd Avenue and McCaslin Boulevard are likely transportation corridors used by the killer because they are within his awareness space. Of course, these are all assumptions based on profiling, and may well turn out to be incorrect in Jessica’s murder case, but it does give insight into how investigations move forward with little to go on, and it also helps to explain which other criminal acts investigators will be looking into to find potential connections to this case.
http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html
 
I believe the dismemberment (if indeed this was done) implies an older perp.

It also implies an intelligent, organised killer.

I personally would place him at nearer 30 or 40.

I believe the placement and condition of her body was intentional and carries a meaning for the perp.

If that place is a teen hangout, it probably has been a teen hangout for decades.

This perp was either one of those past teenagers hanging out, or he was excluded from the group.

I would pick the latter.

So, to me - older, organised, intelligent, with some sort of resentment or grudge to the locals...the teenage group he was excluded from are now adults themselves, possibly prominent citizens of the town now.

Also, this guy lived in that town as a teenager. I will bet the house on this.

My opinion only as usual.

:cow:

You know what might be super interesting? To figure out which families have lived in the area where the backpack was found for a very looonnng time, and ask them if they can recall any youth in the area from ions ago who might have been bullied, or seemed odd for some reason? It might be interesting to do the same thing in Jessica's area. Why? Because someone might recall someone they knew or knew of from way back when who was having a hard life, who was bullied (?), outcast (?) someone who maybe suffered a wrong in or near either area?

Was thinking perhaps the backpack placement was more a message to someone else in that area? Perhaps the perp is trying to scare someone in that area? Maybe someone has a young kid now, and the perp is using the backpack as a means to threaten someone that this could happen to them too for some reason?

Ok, I'm probably a little too outside the box, I'll get back to thinking more inside the box now.... :truce:
 
I guess I can see it that way also, but i keep thinking the fact that her body was within the barbed wire circumference is specific.
Why would somebody make it a point (and I suppose therefore not random)
To place a body within the confines of fencing?

To keep it away from the animals on the outside of the fence.
 
Thanks Nurse, very interesting reading and goes along the lines of my thinking. I honestly believe this perp's awareness space is a huge factor here, from his selection of victim (I feel in his own backyard/neighborhood/highest level of comfortably) to the areas the backpack and remains were left (outer edge of area of awareness) yet still areas he feels comfortable travelling to, most likely along well used routes, familiar to him.

off to read more at nursebeeme's link.

Awesome article, really informative and spot-on to what a lot of us have been saying. I, too, think this guy is operating in the immediate area and I don't think he'll stand out as a creeper once he's arrested.

But looking at the maps in the article, it makes me wonder... did the author read on our site and look at our maps, haha? Because I remember way back at the beginning of our threads a lot of us sleuthers were making this same map! :D
 
I agree abt Amber Alert rules while there is this psychopath on the loose.


JMO of course...
I think the main reason I feel it is a local person in this case is because of where the remains were placed near that known "haunted" spot, as well as where the BP was placed back in town, and combined with where Jessica was taken all kind of points to someone that is pretty familiar with the area.

Although, if someone recenlty moved to Colorado, it probably would not take them too long to hear about that "haunted" spot. When someone moves to a new area, they quickly try to learn about their surroundings, so I would not outrule the perp(s) being the same one in the other Iowa case. That happened long enough ago for the person to maybe have moved to Colorado.

What disturbed me the most about that article you linked is this below.....

"Police still say there is no reason to suspect foul play in the case. That means an Amber Alert cannot be issued for the girls because there is no evidence to suggest they were abducted and there are no suspects"

WTH? We need to seriously get our Amber Alert restrictions lightened up because I feel the sheer fact that an 8 year old and a 10 year old not coming home would be reason enough to issue an amber alert. My goodness, I seriously doubt they would be run-aways. I understand having tight restrictions for Amber alerts, but that is ridiculous IMO. Plus, they found the bicycle, etc. Ugggghhh.
 
I read that too... thanks Kat!

The geographical profiling/ awareness space always has been interesting to me and I think can find a perp or know where he or she may be. Just like the article said: DNA is great for convictions or tying someone to the crime but it is the awareness space analysis that helps determine who did it and where to find that person.

(the guy really blew it on covering up his "awareness space" by where he placed the back pack... I hope they are able to really use that to their benefit to find this guy)
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Great article, thanks!

IMO, "awareness space" is really an expansion of "comfort zone". Here's a paragraph from the article:

This is because when it comes to operating in our comfort zones, criminals, even sociopaths who murder children, have been found to be just like the rest of us. We tend to operate within the areas that we know best.
 
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