CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

[concentric]

I guess I can see it that way also, but i keep thinking the fact that her body was within the barbed wire circumference is specific.
Why would somebody make it a point (and I suppose therefore not random)
To place a body within the confines of fencing?

---------------

Statement about being confined himself inside of barbed wire/fencing, i.e. juvenile detention center and/or prison?

 

[missalicemay]

Found this last night and haven't finished reading it yet.

It's really interesting.

PLACE, SPACE, AND POLICE
INVESTIGATIONS: HUNTING SERIAL
VIOLENT CRIMINALS
by
D. Kim Rossmo
Simon Fraser University

(I copied and pasted the title of the paper that's why it's in all caps)

http://www.popcenter.org/library/crimeprevention/volume_04/10-Rossmo.pdf

Abstract from paper so you can decide if you want to read it or not:



I saved it so I can read it here and there.

Brings to mind the show NUMB3RS. Statistical analysis is only valuable when one has more than one crime or crime scene. I sure hope this doesn't come to that or they can tie the demon to past crimes.

 

[Claudette]

Personally, from everything I've read, I think this is a typical sexually motivated stranger abduction and the guy is most likely a total moron, they usually are. I think the how and why of her placement will make more sense when we find the guy and IMO he will tell LE about the crime. The dismemberment was to make things easier for him to transport. I know a lot of people here are new and I really don't mean to sound cold but you have to remember, he doesn't value or understand human life. To an abductor the abducted person evokes as much emotion to them as the telephone on the wall.

ETA

If it turns out this was NOT sexually motivated then we have a whole different thing going on here. But I would be very, very surprised if it was a stranger abduction of a child that was only for murder.

 

[thess]

I'm still trying to cross-reference this 'abandon all hope' graffiti with 'concentration camps', but it seems like it just a common misunderstanding, at least if we're talking about WWII.

The sign on the German camps was typically "Arbeit macht frei", literally "work makes you free", but it seems like it's a common urban myth that it translated to "abandon all hope..." etc. Huh, had never heard that one before.

Anyway, yeah, it's from Dante's Inferno.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I wonder if anyone knows the history of that shed/shack near the crime scene and when it was tagged. Lettering looks quite weathered.:

Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here.

The original phrase is from concentration camp gates; however, could someone who had rage from being sent to or released from prison have written that on the wall?

"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here." Dante's Divine Comedy (1300s) ~ inscription over the entrance gate to Hell.

ETA: Sorry, thess, I see now that you were waaaay ahead of me. :blushing:

 

[absentia]

probably just the fact that 10 men died in a mine explosion in there.

I wonder if anyone knows the history of that shed/shack near the crime scene and when it was tagged. Lettering looks quite weathered.:

Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here.

The original phrase is from concentration camp gates; however, could someone who had rage from being sent to or released from prison have written that on the wall?

 

[tlcya]

Found this last night and haven't finished reading it yet.

It's really interesting.

PLACE, SPACE, AND POLICE
INVESTIGATIONS: HUNTING SERIAL
VIOLENT CRIMINALS
by
D. Kim Rossmo
Simon Fraser University

(I copied and pasted the title of the paper that's why it's in all caps)

http://www.popcenter.org/library/crimeprevention/volume_04/10-Rossmo.pdf

Abstract from paper so you can decide if you want to read it or not:



I saved it so I can read it here and there.

great resource, thanks Kat

 

[GrainneDhu]

I wonder if anyone knows the history of that shed/shack near the crime scene and when it was tagged. Lettering looks quite weathered.:

Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here.

The original phrase is from concentration camp gates; however, could someone who had rage from being sent to or released from prison have written that on the wall?

Respectfully do you have a cite for that quote in relationship to concentration camps?

The reason I ask is that "Abandon hope all ye who enter here" is the most common English translation of "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate" which is on the sign that was over the gates of Hell in the "Inferno" section of Dante Alighieri's "Divine Comedy." There are other English translations that are more technically accurate but do not, in my opinion, capture the poetic flavour of the common one.

"Arbeit macht Frei" is what was posted over the gates of Auschwitz ("Work sets you free"). It is sometimes said in black humour that the real translation should be "Abandon all hope." It is in line with the big Nazi propaganda line, that these were work camps that weren't death camps, of course not, not here, nothing to see, carry on...

They even had model camps that were set up in good part to show the international Red Cross to "prove" that work camp inmates were not being mistreated.

(us wannabe lit majors used to learn stuff like this in order to impress our future professors... do teenagers do that anymore?)

 

[tlcya]

That line is frequently quoted or referenced in movies and pop culture. I think it is a rather fitting thought to put over the entrance of a mine. Mines go down into the depths of the earth which suggests going down into hell or near it.

http://www.subzin.com/s/Abandon+all+hope,+ye+who+enter+here

I don't think that graffiti is significant in JR's case but hey, at least its giving us something to discuss in the absence of anything new to digest.

 

[absentia]

thank you.
I guess that's why I feel parenting appropriately is so important. I see my child's needs and feel absolute devastation when I think of kids who are the same but either in foster, orphanage or in a neglectful or abusive family. or even in a well meaning but ineffective family. I really see that it could be totally devastating to the development of the highly sensitive or high needs child - not to mention ADD/ADHD Autistic/Aspergers kid. imagine a baby/kid like that with no support. or with a narcissistic mother, or even just an immature and selfish mother.

She is super blessed to have a parent who understands this and treats her appropriately. Thank you for being a good parent to a very special person and helping her find her way in the world.

 

[Marah]

I've been profiling people in blue cars nonstop!

Me too! I live in Wisconsin. Ha!

 

[thess]

Respectfully do you have a cite for that quote in relationship to concentration camps?

Yeah, I think we had mindmeld on this one.

From what I can see, it's actually an urban myth, people probably failed to get the irony. See stuff like this.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101020133933AAU9BO6

 

[Kat]

Hell---Auschwitz---not a discernible difference----JMHO. ( I am not being sarcastic. I am rarely saracastic in real life but I am never ever while posting on WS.)

Did LE tape off the bldg when they were doing their investigation? TIA!

Has it been reported a date or projected date for Jess's funeral yet? TIA!

 

[21merc7]

I'm still trying to cross-reference this 'abandon all hope' graffiti with 'concentration camps', but it seems like it just a common misunderstanding, at least if we're talking about WWII.

The sign on the German camps was typically "Arbeit macht frei", literally "work makes you free", but it seems like it's a common urban myth that it translated to "abandon all hope..." etc. Huh, had never heard that one before.

Anyway, yeah, it's from Dante's Inferno.

It is Dante's.

You are also right about Arbeit Macht Frie.

However, the below linked gentleman, along with a few other survivors, are quoted as saying it should have been Dante's phrasing instead. I am guessing that is where the confusion comes from.

www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/frankl/frankl.html

 

[BlueIris]

Some of the things people are posting about, and that are in the news remind me of aspects in the very first case I ever followed and posted about from when the disappearance began, through the search and then to the recovery: missing Dru Sjodin, MN/ND.

First of all: the body of Dru was placed in a drainage ditch in a field, near a pipe.

Next: This image of the shack pictured in the photo series below, makes me think that this person could have grown up in the area, and this was a landmark known to him from when he was younger. Someone here said that it probably was a teenage hangout. Notice the message scrawled on the front: Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. That seems like something a teenager would write, but is derived from concentration camp gates (I know, because I have visited concentration camps).

(Image 10/11/12 - near the crime scene) You may have to scroll through.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...n/Jessica Ridgeway -CO-/?albumview=slideshow

The perp. in the Dru Sjodin case, placed her body within the area of his "comfort zone" with familiar landmarks on the land where he lived as a child.

Next, as cluciano posted, could the perp. in this case have been recently or within the last few years been released from prison?

The perp. in the Dru Sjodin case was a tier/level III sex offender who had been released from prison to his home area, just prior to her disappearing.

Also, could the perp. be in construction/remodeling work, where he is able to move about the country.

The perp. in the Dru Sjodin case had jobs in construction/remodeling.
-------------

Just some thoughts.

I scrolled through these photos, and noticed at least a couple of the photos are or two lines of orange arrows painted onto the road, with the arrow pointing in the direction of the culvert. What does this mean? Does this mean the perp's vehicle went that way? Or that there was a trail evidence (blood droplets perhaps?) that led from point "a" towards the culvert? Just wondering if anyone knows specifically what the arrows mean. Thanks in advance.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

I wonder if anyone knows the history of that shed/shack near the crime scene and when it was tagged. Lettering looks quite weathered.:

Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here.

The original phrase is from concentration camp gates; however, could someone who had rage from being sent to or released from prison have written that on the wall?

This was an old mine where 10 men lost their lives

 

[nursebeeme]

very interesting article from today about 'awareness space'

A person’s, including a criminal’s, awareness space is centered around those locations that are most important to them, starting with their home and including other locations such as work, a friend’s house, the primary stores where they shop, favorite walking paths, etc. It is also composed of the transportation corridors used to connect those locations to one another.

Defining the perpetrator’s awareness space is critical to solving Jessica’s case, because in the vast majority of child abduction murders, as well as other crimes, researchers have found that the perpetrator lives within his awareness space, commits his crimes close to home and within that awareness space, and disposes of his victims and other evidence at the outer edges of the awareness space, generally along the space’s transportation corridors.

This is because when it comes to operating in our comfort zones, criminals, even sociopaths who murder children, have been found to be just like the rest of us. We tend to operate within the areas that we know best.

**much more at link**
http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html

 

[Jclem1979]

I don't know that we will ever know why she was not intact until this murderer is caught.

In my opinion I believe that it was for transportation. Smaller size makes it easier to carry and therefore dispose of. I do not think that the body was put in the culvert. The murderer really had no way of knowing that the trash men were going to be cleaning up that day. I think it was really luck that they were. If they hadn't been there what were the odds that someone else would have found the body before it started to decompose? Maybe he thought that it would start decomposing quickly and once it did no one would recognize it as human bones,but rather as some animals bones. I have a feeling that the parts of her that are missing are probably buried somewhere. The parts of a skeleton that would with out a doubt prove that it was human bones, meaning the skull, hands, feet.

I hope this predator is caught and very soon.

 

[margarita25]

Since "The mine is now used to store natural gas by Xcel Energy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden,_Colorado), I wonder if all Xcel employees have been checked out.

Also, I'm wondering if the perp knew about the Leydon murder near in the mine, and if this has any significance.

(http://preserveleyden.weebly.com/leyden-mine.html)

 

[SapphireSteel]

If he didn't want her found quickly why didn't he just bury her? I feel like the dismemberment has a whole other meaning. I have read that dismemberment was rage. They turn the blame for their crime toward the victim I believe. jmo

I believe the dismemberment (if indeed this was done) implies an older perp.

It also implies an intelligent, organised killer.

I personally would place him at nearer 30 or 40.

I believe the placement and condition of her body was intentional and carries a meaning for the perp.

If that place is a teen hangout, it probably has been a teen hangout for decades.

This perp was either one of those past teenagers hanging out, or he was excluded from the group.

I would pick the latter.

So, to me - older, organised, intelligent, with some sort of resentment or grudge to the locals...the teenage group he was excluded from are now adults themselves, possibly prominent citizens of the town now.

Also, this guy lived in that town as a teenager. I will bet the house on this.

My opinion only as usual.

:cow: