Found Deceased CO - Joseph Keller, 18, Antonito, 23 July 2015 - #1

[Scout12]

http://mix104.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/NEIL KELLER.wav

http://mix104.info/interview-with-neal-keller/

Thank you for sharing this ... heartbreaking to hear his voice reveal such pain, but he appears to be a strong man whose faith is very important to him. I hope and pray with all my heart that there will be a reunion soon, and this precious young man can return to the loving arms of his family where he belongs.

 

[iluvmua]

Good morning,

I have a few questions.

Am I correct in that it still has not been clearly established where he started on the run? Did he and his friend leave the ranch on foot? I still don't understand how the dogs couldn't pick up a scent if they knew his exact starting point, wherever it was. How unusual is it for the dogs to not pick up on anything?

Also, on the facebook page in the visitor section, someone has posted what seems to me to be important satellite info, but no one has responded.

Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts about the above? Thank you.

1. According to TG (Colin's brother) they started at the ranch.
2. That's my understanding.

 

[iluvmua]

I still don't understand why his two friends waited hours to call LE.

The explanation for them not calling explained by Colin's brother makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Eileen730]

1. According to TG (Colin's brother) they started at the ranch.
2. That's my understanding.

Where were they staying?

I'm so very confused!

 

[frisson]

Are any of the dog experts here and available? Or if anyone else knows who is not a dog expert, but has some knowledge..... How common is it for a dog to miss a scent?

Agreed on the above mentioned questions. I was confused on where they were staying and where the run began, but I see it (the run start point) was presumably at the ranch. (?)

I am very concerned about this man. This story sounds peculiar to me.

 

[Eileen730]

Are any of the dog experts here and available? Or if anyone else knows who is not a dog expert, but has some knowledge..... How common is it for a dog to miss a scent?

Agreed on the above mentioned questions. I was confused on where they were staying and where the run began, but I see it (the run start point) was presumably at the ranch. (?)



I am very concerned about this man. This story sounds peculiar to me.

Presumably!!

 

[Eileen730]

I thought only the friend was seen running.

where was the other friend?

I find if very odd that the three guys were all separated at this time.
something just does not fit.
JMO

 

[darring21]

Are any of the dog experts here and available? Or if anyone else knows who is not a dog expert, but has some knowledge..... How common is it for a dog to miss a scent?

Agreed on the above mentioned questions. I was confused on where they were staying and where the run began, but I see it (the run start point) was presumably at the ranch. (?)

I am very concerned about this man. This story sounds peculiar to me.

Those two escaped prisoners from New York hadn't had a shower in a week and had diarrhea and dogs couldn't find them. I don't have much faith in dogs after a day or so.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I still don't understand why his two friends waited hours to call LE.

The explanation for them not calling explained by Colin's brother makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I have been thinking the same ever since CG's borther (TG) left those two posts, in which he talks about the details of Joe's and CG's run as well as how long CG and CF waited before calling LE, on FB.

If CG and Joe split up because they were running at different paces, that's fine; I'm not a runner myself, but multiple people on this thread, as well as on the FB page, have confirmed that this is a common practice. I don't have a problem with this particular detail.

But I'm still confused about the starting and end points of their run, as well as the exact route CG took (i.e., in the beginning I was under the impression -based on what was being reported by MSM- that he stayed on the main road the whole time. Then, after a while, we are told that he actually went looking for a trail for later, one that goes up to the ranch).

I also get the impression that CG's brother isn't entirely certain as to where the run started and ended: In both of the posts, in addressing the starting and end points of the run, he uses the phrase "as far as I know." This is his own brother that he is talking about. Why did he feel the need to say that? And not once, but twice. Or am I just being picky? It's hard to tell because I don't know him personally.

And then there is the timeline. In the first of the two posts, the brother says they waited for hours. Then he says, still in the same post, that for the first couple hours, CG and CF thought Joe might be playing a prank on them. Again, I may just be being too picky, but when I first read that they (CG and CF) waited for hours it almost sounded as though the two were resentful of having to wait on Joe for so long. Then in the second post left by CG's brother -less than an hour later-, he says from what he understands, CG and CF went out only an hour or so to search themselves. So first, it's "hours," then it's "a couple of hours" (in the same post), and then it turns into "an hour or so." Within an hour, nonetheless.

The biggest problem I have: Why wait until midnight to contact police? Joe was supposed to return around 5:30 PM. OK, I will give CG and CF a couple of extra hours, given their young age. By then it's 7:30 PM. I don't know what time it starts getting dark in that area this time of the year, but I would think temperature starts to go down fairly early and quickly (plus, Joe only had a pair of shorts on). I mean, if this was my friend, I would be very concerned (and scared, frankly). It doesn't even have to be a friend; I would still be worried. Yet even in this scenario, it's still 4 hours before CG and CF alert LE.

Regardless of what may have happened to Joe, and in the case of foul play, especially, that gives the perpetrator(s)plenty of time to get rid of evidence, including moving his body, to a location where it's less likely to be found, at least not very quickly. Somewhere like La Jara, for example.

 

[human]

I would worry my friend twisted an ankle after running over a stick or something else that would be easy to happen.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I would worry my friend twisted an ankle after running over a stick or something else that would be easy to happen.

Exactly!! In my mind, something like that would be much more likely than Joe possibly playing a practical joke, if my running companion didn't show up a half hour after the agreed upon time. Even if we hadn't agreed on a time, this is a close friend that you are talking about, so you would probably have a good idea as to how far and how long he would be gone, barring any accidents. But then I don't know these boys personally; maybe that's just how they are (playing jokes on each other all the time). It doesn't make sense to me, though.

 

[iluvmua]

I thought only the friend was seen running.

where was the other friend?

I find if very odd that the three guys were all separated at this time.
something just does not fit.
JMO

Do you mean when the fisherman saw colin? It is my understanding that Colin was the only one seen.


TG's post on the Find Joe Keller facebook page, said that CF stayed back at the ranch.

 

[iluvmua]

I have been thinking the same ever since CG's borther (TG) left those two posts, in which he talks about the details of Joe's and CG's run as well as how long CG and CF waited before calling LE, on FB.

If CG and Joe split up because they were running at different paces, that's fine; I'm not a runner myself, but multiple people on this thread, as well as on the FB page, have confirmed that this is a common practice. I don't have a problem with this particular detail.

But I'm still confused about the starting and end points of their run, as well as the exact route CG took (i.e., in the beginning I was under the impression -based on what was being reported by MSM- that he stayed on the main road the whole time. Then, after a while, we are told that he actually went looking for a trail for later, one that goes up to the ranch).

I also get the impression that CG's brother isn't entirely certain as to where the run started and ended: In both of the posts, in addressing the starting and end points of the run, he uses the phrase "as far as I know." This is his own brother that he is talking about. Why did he feel the need to say that? And not once, but twice. Or am I just being picky? It's hard to tell because I don't know him personally.

And then there is the timeline. In the first of the two posts, the brother says they waited for hours. Then he says, still in the same post, that for the first couple hours, CG and CF thought Joe might be playing a prank on them. Again, I may just be being too picky, but when I first read that they (CG and CF) waited for hours it almost sounded as though the two were resentful of having to wait on Joe for so long. Then in the second post left by CG's brother -less than an hour later-, he says from what he understands, CG and CF went out only an hour or so to search themselves. So first, it's "hours," then it's "a couple of hours" (in the same post), and then it turns into "an hour or so." Within an hour, nonetheless.

The biggest problem I have: Why wait until midnight to contact police? Joe was supposed to return around 5:30 PM. OK, I will give CG and CF a couple of extra hours, given their young age. By then it's 7:30 PM. I don't know what time it starts getting dark in that area this time of the year, but I would think temperature starts to go down fairly early and quickly (plus, Joe only had a pair of shorts on). I mean, if this was my friend, I would be very concerned (and scared, frankly). It doesn't even have to be a friend; I would still be worried. Yet even in this scenario, it's still 4 hours before CG and CF alert LE.

Regardless of what may have happened to Joe, and in the case of foul play, especially, that gives the perpetrator(s)plenty of time to get rid of evidence, including moving his body, to a location where it's less likely to be found, at least not very quickly. Somewhere like La Jara, for example.

I took it to mean that they waited for hours and then decided themselves to look for Joe for an hour and then after not fining him they decide to call LE at midnight.

The whole waiting until midnight makes my hink meter go up.

 

[Marisa714]

Conejos County is one of the friendliest counties I have been in. (I live in Colorado.)
It is beautiful to boot.
Last year, while we were on the ATV's, 2 young men stopped us in their vehicle and asked us if we knew this lady as they found her purse with drivers license while they were fishing. These young men were from Texas and staying in a friend or relatives cabin nearby to where we were staying.
We told them of a place to go where they could get help, and that person would know of the residents in this small community in Conejos county.

We had a wonderful time last year. It was magical.
We drove up Cornwall Mountain on the ATV's, and also took the ATV's to Blowout Pass, etc. Went through Stunner Pass.
We ate lunch in Platoro. We saw a Marmot!
The people we met were Friendly!! ALL OF THEM!
The photos we took are Breathtaking!
No cell service, and we watched videos at night in the cabin. (Enjoyed family time with my cousins.)
Hummingbirds feeding on the feeders on the balcony.
Deer present in the forest. It was beautiful!
We took our dogs and my cousins took theirs.
They have owned this property for years and years and years and years.
They love it there and so do we.

I don't think Joe and his friends would stick out like a sore thumb at all.
They would blend in.
And being wealthy? Just because Conejos County is one of the poorest counties in Colorado doesn't mean there aren't wealthy people there...Why would Joe stick out?
I am sure the residents of Conejos county have heard people with accents.
Heck, his Aunt J. has an accent, by the video I posted earlier in the thread.
Maybe you have preconceived notions because you haven't been there.
Just my two cents...
IMOO.

Howdy neighbor! :happydance:
I too am from El Paso, barely...I am up the pass much closer to Teller county. While I do agree that there are very friendly people here in Colorado (one of the many reasons I love it here), we are also over ridden with transients in our mountains and forested areas (our state is rather tolerant of this btw). I'm not trying to say that transients are bad people, however I am far less likely to trust a transient personally.

While I'll be the first one to brag about our beautiful hiking and friendly people, crystal clear water, bluer than blue skies! We have the perfect places to camp and hide out. That being said, I hope that's what Joe's doing also! Anyway, since I didn't grow up here-I will say that the people up here are very different. Not in a bad way-just different, they're mountain folk. I have been told many, many, many times that I stick out like a sore thumb lol. I have lived here for several years already and definitely feel like a mountain girl now, but clearly I'm still the "different one". I apologize for replying to this so late, I am still playing catch-up and wanted to add my 2 cents!

This is all my very humble opinion only!

 

[iluvmua]

Howdy neighbor! :happydance:
I too am from El Paso, barely...I am up the pass much closer to Teller county. While I do agree that there are very friendly people here in Colorado (one of the many reasons I love it here), we are also over ridden with transients in our mountains and forested areas (our state is rather tolerant of this btw). I'm not trying to say that transients are bad people, however I am far less likely to trust a transient personally.

While I'll be the first one to brag about our beautiful hiking and friendly people, crystal clear water, bluer than blue skies! We have the perfect places to camp and hide out. That being said, I hope that's what Joe's doing also! Anyway, since I didn't grow up here-I will say that the people up here are very different. Not in a bad way-just different, they're mountain folk. I have been told many, many, many times that I stick out like a sore thumb lol. I have lived here for several years already and definitely feel like a mountain girl now, but clearly I'm still the "different one". I apologize for replying to this so late, I am still playing catch-up and wanted to add my 2 cents!

This is all my very humble opinion only!

I hope that is what he is doing but he does not seem like the kind of person to leave their family worried.

Sadly, I think he is desceased. jmo

 

[Eileen730]

And according to the Find Joe Keller page, they have been cleared. I don't buy it.

Until LE comes out and says (and maybe they will when they have the presser soon). that these two have been cleared I'm going to believe that they have not been cleared.

jmo

I thought these Friends and their families were running that page?
I could be wrong.

 

[iluvmua]

I thought these Friends and their families were running that page?
I could be wrong.

It is my understanding they are but Find Joe Keller replied to a comment about the two friends being suspected, they replied with they have been cleared.

 

[manlet]

When you're in the middle of nowhere with friends, on property you aren't familiar with, the last thing you should do is go running/jogging alone no matter how safe you think it may be out there. <modsnip> I hope he's found safe but it's not looking so good.

 

[bakerlady]

I think if they found him they would have said so! JMO
I see no reason to hide that!

I can see how it could be a tactic to try to gather more information.

The perp might start to loosen up after so much time and think their crime was successfully hidden and then they might eventually say or do or google something incriminating because they think no one is watching them.

Or, because they have been threatened.

Or, they don't know who did it but they know where and they set up surveillance to catch the perp.

This case is super weird tho.

I don't understand how the friends are being so quiet about everything.

 

[Treelights]

Howdy neighbor! :happydance:
I too am from El Paso, barely...I am up the pass much closer to Teller county. While I do agree that there are very friendly people here in Colorado (one of the many reasons I love it here), we are also over ridden with transients in our mountains and forested areas (our state is rather tolerant of this btw). I'm not trying to say that transients are bad people, however I am far less likely to trust a transient personally.

While I'll be the first one to brag about our beautiful hiking and friendly people, crystal clear water, bluer than blue skies! We have the perfect places to camp and hide out. That being said, I hope that's what Joe's doing also! Anyway, since I didn't grow up here-I will say that the people up here are very different. Not in a bad way-just different, they're mountain folk. I have been told many, many, many times that I stick out like a sore thumb lol. I have lived here for several years already and definitely feel like a mountain girl now, but clearly I'm still the "different one". I apologize for replying to this so late, I am still playing catch-up and wanted to add my 2 cents!

This is all my very humble opinion only!

Hello!
I don't think Joe would stick out in Conejos County.
There are many young tourists that come to the cabins and mountain ranges on vacation in Conejos County.

Here in Colorado Springs, just the other day, I noticed two individual men without shirts running the trails in North Cheyenne Canon by Starsmore Discovery Center. They were running the lower trails near the base of North Cheyenne Canon, which is in the city.

They were running individually, which is fine because there are Many people that walk and hike the trails there.

I don't know what makes you stand out in El Paso County.
For an outdoor person such as I am, I fit right in. I also fit in wearing "business attire" as well when I was working. I am retired.

Joe fits right in, as he is athletic, likes to run, and I wouldn't think twice about seeing him running
in Conejos County. Now, running at Night, without a Shirt, when the temps change is Not a good idea.
That would make me Pause... the weather can turn on a dime, you just don't know.

For Joe to be running without a shirt, to me, tells me, that most likely he wasn't going to be gone for long in Horca, Colorado. He probably was going to jog/run for just an hour. If he was going to jog/run/hike what have you in the Valley or higher up in the mountains, STARTING at 4:30PM, he would have thought to bring along additional clothing, in my opinion, as the weather can change.
Also, he knew he would be eating dinner after the jog/run, so to me, it doesn't make sense that he would go off on a jog/run for hours.

As you know, we have had a Crazy year weather wise, and the last several years, between the fires and the floods, it has not been easy for El Paso County.

I understand that there are transients in El Paso County. El Paso County has way over a half million people.
For one, transients, are on street corners by Walmarts, shopping centers, and the like, looking for donations$$$. It is sad. Times have been tough employment wise for Colorado Springs over the last 7 years.
I imagine it is the same for other towns in El Paso County.
Although I saw a news report that Woodland Park is really doing a lot better with tourism this year and that's great. I don't know how other parts of Teller County are doing.
Cripple Creek (casinos) is not busy like it used to be in the 1990's, or early 2000's.
The economy has taken hits through the years.

Also, because pot has been legalized, there are out of state people that come to Colorado for that Rocky Mountain High.
Some could be transients.

I don't know about the stats on transients in Conejos County.
There is a lot of forestry land.

Personally, I don't think it was a transient that kidnapped Joe, if Joe was kidnapped.
What would they do with Joe? It doesn't make sense to me, in my opinion.
If he was kidnapped for money, then where's the ransom note? I haven't heard about one
in MSM. Why would they pick Joe? Why would they pick Joe so close to the Rainbow Trout Ranch?

IMOO.