CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #10

[Mae’s Friend]

It’s true that LE can obtain warrants for mouth swab and phone, so turning those over immediately without a warrant (assuming that’s true) was perhaps a recognition of that inevitability based on his lawyer’s advice, or perhaps he knew there was no relevant evidence in either and he could hope that being cooperative would turn LE’s attention elsewhere. Non-testimonial evidence can be compelled for the most part, while testimony cannot. Perhaps he’s innocent and just weird or paranoid but I doubt it.

 

[MyBelle]

I have a question. Another question. They said that almost immediately he had provided his DNA and allowed his phone to be reviewed--but soon after, he refused to even sit down and speak with police. Why was he initially so helpful? Did he want them to see his phone? If so, is it reasonable to think that he may have wanted to provide DNA because a second person was involved and he knew his DNA was not going to ever work against him?

His LE family members likely advised him to provide the DNA because LE needed it to rule him out as they searched KB's home. His DNA would be expected to be there. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

But LE in Mollie’s case didn’t have anything...until that one video was finally reviewed...jmo

The public didn't know that and it took some time for LE to analyze the video and pinpoint the car and then track down the car's owner. It wasn't done overnight.

JMO

 

[osu]

It is. LE highly prefers to have this crucial piece of evidence before making an arrest for murder. Otherwise, the defense will argue that the prosecution cannot prove the victim is deceased. MOO

I agree. It’s just like in Kyron Horman’s case and we’re still waiting 8-1/2 years later for him to be found and justice to be served.

 

[Jazzy5980]

Nope. The PRCA Rodeo and the Jackpot Team Ropings are two different things.

What events does Pf participate in: calf roping, team roping or steer wrestling?

 

[MyBelle]

From what I understand, not having a body is a big deal regarding an arrest for murder JMO

In the Tibbet's case, LE made the arrest and the accused led them to the body. In Jessica O'Grady's case, an arrest was made and the accused still refuses to reveal the body years later and all his appeals have been denied.

 

[oviedo]

It is. LE highly prefers to have this crucial piece of evidence before making an arrest for murder. Otherwise, the defense will argue that the prosecution cannot prove the victim is deceased. MOO

reminds me of Michelle Parker - her family has been waiting 7 years....

 

[Steelslady]

Based on what little we know, this is, IMO, the most plausible scenario.

Thanks. It's just stood out to me all this time. I could picture her going, excited to get a tree with him and the baby. Then either an argument happened while there, or it was a plan all along to get her alone in the woods somewhere. It would be much easier and neater for him- he could deal with her phone later and send texts and such. It's too bad there's no video of him driving and/or parking that day near a countrified wooded place. I could be way off here, but Kelsey telling her Mom about the Christmas tree just seems to stand out to me. So easy and convenient.

 

[sloane7777]

I disagree. I think they have plenty of evidence but LE is hoping to find the body and that explains the delay for making an arrest. They can also go to court and provide the evidence they do have and a Judge could decide to put the child in state custody.

I remember in the Mollie Tibbett's case many posters believed LE "had nothing" and then, boom, an arrest.
I have confidence in LE. JMO

I too think they have everything but her , and that's a VAST area so it would cut down on area if he tripped up . JMO

 

[ReadySet]

One of the cruelest ironies of a missing person's case: The missing person cannot defend themself against whatever motives and actions are ascribed to them. The perp can talk and talk, or not talk and claim their right (as they should be able to) to keep silent. The perp's supporters can theorize and spin, and the missing person, in this case KB, cannot respond. KB cannot fight back. The perp seems to have the final word.
Unless, those of us who know that our empathy should first go to the true victims, continue to advocate and fight for them. That's what LE is doing, behind the scenes.
We don't have the information we want, so some (PF in IMO) fill in the blanks with lies.
And if you are a good liar, and really good at hiding a body, you may get away with it.

 

[Mauig’ma]

I wonder when PF first notified an attorney? Did le get an questions asked before he clammed up? Did he call an attorney as soon as her mom started asking questions to Kelsey’s whereabouts? When did he hand over his phone & give his dna? Before or after contacting his attorney?

 

[susiQ]

His LE family members likely advised him to provide the DNA because LE needed it to rule him out as they searched KB's home. His DNA would be expected to be there. JMO

Which would therefore, still not rule him out.

 

[Inthedetails]

This theory definitely presumed it was premeditated. I’m having a hard time thinking that someone would plan to something on thanksgiving day?

I agree that it is hard to think that someone would plan a crime on Thanksgiving Day....until I remember the loooong weekend that allowed for cover-up.

I'm on the fence if it was planned or an argument that turned violent, but that long weekend was certainly convenient for covering things up.

(FWIW, I don't think it was self-harm or a stranger/acquaintance abduction, though I do understand those are possibilities.)

jmo

 

[Lhughessk]

Let’s assume for a moment that PF did it (not much of a stretch for most of us). But now, let’s consider whether he had an accomplice, or whether he went solo.

I can see the benefit to PF in having an accomplice. It makes that trip to Idaho a lot easier and the phone gymnastics much easier to pull off. Honestly, I’m having a hard time seeing how he could go 1500 miles and nobody notice.

But... if he really did have an accomplice, and if they’re engaging in subterfuge and obfuscation with the phones, then WHY NOT DO SOMETHING WITH ONE OF KB’S VEHICLES? If he took her, then he has her purse and her keys. It wouldn’t have been hard with an accomplice to retrieve one of her cars at 3 am Thursday or Friday night and the accomplice could drive it pretty far off somewhere and dispose of it in a way that it wouldn’t be found for a long time, if ever. And thus PF really ups the ante on the missing person angle - KB obviously took her car so let’s do a manhunt between CO and WA and find her.

But he didn’t do that, and if he’s thinking thru how to pull off the perfect missing persons crime while deflecting suspicion away from himself, it certainly doesn’t involve leaving both vehicles there while being the last person to see her. So either he’s stupid, or he did this without involving anyone else to minimize risk. Because trying to get rid of someone’s vehicle would be too hard for one person to pull off without help, so he just had to leave the cars alone.

 

[Kapua]

I agree that it is hard to think that someone would plan a crime on Thanksgiving Day....until I remember the loooong weekend that allowed for cover-up.

I'm on the fence if it was planned or an argument that turned violent, but that long weekend was certainly convenient for covering things up.

(FWIW, I don't think it was self-harm or a stranger/acquaintance abduction, though I do understand those are possibilities.)

jmo

Scott Peterson murdered his wife Laci on Christmas Eve. Modesto PD and a lot of locals gave up their holiday to search for her.

 

[Steelslady]

never mind...................

 

[InvSmith]

This was interesting. I had not read of a visit to a waste disposal facility.

PF spotted at waste management facility, police return to his property

 

[Jennifer17]

Let me preface this by saying- I truly believe that each and every one of us hope that Kelsey is alive and well. There is still that slight chance, and it would be wonderful for all involved if she is.

Now, I just saw some posts- well meaning in your hearts, of boycotting PF's business. First of all, that is a huge no no- that is a threat to his livelihood, and a threat to him personally. If he is truly innocent, would YOU want it on your conscious that this man lost his ranch and bread and butter for his survival as well as the baby and possibly his Mom? Could you live with yourself? That is just wrong! If he is guilty, he will lose his business on his own, by being behind bars, of his own doing. If he's not guilty, you could be ruining a man and his family's life that is undeserving.

I admit, I am leaning towards him harming her, gut feeling and things pointing in that direction for me, just in my opinion. If I am wrong, I will apologize with all of my heart and wish him all the best as well as his baby. If I am wrong, I couldn't be able to put my head on a pillow at night, knowing that I was partly responsible for ruining this man's livelihood. He still has bills to pay and a child to feed- let's not take that away, out of emotions.

I think that people were calling for a boycott in response to the animal abuse stories, not because he wont answer questions.

 

[Jade]

Define “worldly entertainments” ?

She's a pilot so she probably doesn't do drugs or drink heavily-- would be subject to random drug screening at work.

She could be a vegetarian. But not all Adventists follow the dietary guidelines.

It seems she doesn't wear jewelry nor have pierced ears and neither does her mom.

But she has a baby out of wedlock and a brother married to a man-- and her family accepts and loves both her and her brother. So she's not living like a nun or anything.

She loves God and has a strong faith according to her mom. That doesn't mean her entertainment options are limited. JMO.

Since I live near an adherent Adventist enclave I commented with some experience so I tried to find links to explain it clearly without having to read long texts but will link that as well.

Entertainment

Radio and television: Educational programmes, news and current affairs and classical music programmes are valuable. Adventists avoid programmes that are neither "wholesome nor uplifting".

Theatre and cinema: Adventists are advised not to go to the theatre, cinema (or, presumably to watch videos or DVDs), which, with other entertainments, are seen as partly responsible for the poor moral state of the world.

Dancing: Social dancing is not permitted.

Music: Some music is of great value, while other forms of music are dangerous:

Great care should be exercised in the choice of music. Any melody partaking of the nature of jazz, rock, or related hybrid forms, or any language expressing foolish or trivial sentiments, will be shunned by persons of true culture.

Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual

Social events

The Church Manual sets out a code of practice for social events, which are usually held in family homes, rather than commercial places of entertainment:

Social gatherings for old and young should be made occasions, not for light and trifling amusement, but for happy fellowship and improvement of the powers of mind and soul.
​

But then, to your point, we get to:

Sexual behaviour

Adventists adopt the highest standards of sexual behaviour.

Sex outside marriage is forbidden, and parents are expected to chaperone meetings between young people. Young people, for their part, are expected to take responsibility for avoiding sexual encounters.

Mixed marriages
Seventh-day Adventist ministers will not marry church members to non-members.
​

BBC - Religions - Christianity: Seventh-day Adventists


Regarding KB’s brother:

Current church policy states that openly homosexual (and "practicing") persons are to be welcomed into the church services and treated with the love and kindness afforded any human being.
​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

More information:

Health :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

​

 

[The Night Watchman]

I agree that it is hard to think that someone would plan a crime on Thanksgiving Day....until I remember the loooong weekend that allowed for cover-up.

I'm on the fence if it was planned or an argument that turned violent, but that long weekend was certainly convenient for covering things up.

(FWIW, I don't think it was self-harm or a stranger/acquaintance abduction, though I do understand those are possibilities.)

The fact that is was Thanksgiving makes it very unlikely that this was premeditated, IMO. Phone calls from family and friends are more common than on other days; and there may be dinner plans with others that would miss her as well (if Kelsey didn't have plans with PF).

Unfortunately, through the misdirecting phone calls on the 25th, and no one following up, she was off the radar for 10 days. I'm sure phone calls were made to Kelsey after the 25th, but no one followed up until her mother on December 2nd. FWIW- there are family and friends of mine that I wouldn't follow up if a non-critical phone call wasn't answered- I would just assume they forgot to call back and never think of foul play. People have busy lives.

To disappear on Thanksgiving suggests a spur of the moment situation, IMO.