CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #10

[Lhughessk]

KB's housing complex was pretty small and if a neighbor noticed PF's truck was often there then a neighbor also might see PF and an accomplice take off in KB's car. Too risky, imo. I'm not discounting an accomplice handled the texts/phone, however. Very possible. Especially if PF has another girlfriend and she's pregnant. JMO

That’s why I said to do it at 3 am. PF drops off accomplice a street away, accomplice walks to the car, jumps in and drives away. Low risk of anyone seeing. If someone were to notice the car driving away, it’s dark and they don’t know it isn’t Kelsey herself.

 

[Jennifer17]

LE probably is scratching their heads. If there was anything incriminating in the days before or after in any texts or calls, PF would have been done for, long ago.

Not so. Things can be very suspicious but not definitely incriminating.
When all those suspicious activities are put together, it can be circumstantially incriminating.

 

[mehusername]

New at this, but thought I’d throw it out there.

I’m at 80% sure PF did it and is just waiting for the case to go cold, but the 20% also has some explanations- what if KB and PF did have a somewhat rocky relationship towards the end? Say KB wanted more and PF could have been somewhat clueless. My experience with men is that they can be clueless at times. They could have exchanged the baby and if they had broken up (possibly temporarily in PF’s mind), they may not have had plans for TDay dinner. Possibly KB fibbed to her mom to keep things copacetic for the time being or maybe the statements about what KB told CB aren’t completely clear. KB could have had other plans that evening and after being picked up, things went south. Say it was someone she worked with - they would know to text work and would likely know of PF.

Part of the reason the 20% exists is because I grew up in a farming community. We had horses growing up and I even have a blue heeler that’s been bred from a working line. Growing up around these people, I don’t find what I’ve seen of PF’s behavior to be unusual. A lot of the farm men that I grew up with would seem a bit callous and tended to be pretty clueless about women. I could imagine PF being this way, and with that, also have no desire to entertain the public. His significant other is missing and right now he has to take care of his daughter. Everything else might seem wasteful to him. With PF having grown up with LE as family, he might know that he should always get a lawyer. Or hell, his mom could be calling the shots for him. I also don’t think his treatment of the baby is odd.. it’s his daughter. At a time like this, he might feel that only he can keep her safe. Maybe he has no relationship with CB or KB’s family. I wouldn’t let my infant be with strangers even if they are technically family especially not if everyone seems to be coming for my throat.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[alucardsdream]

Was she pregnant? I'm confused.

No, not that we know of. People were speculating what she might have bought at Safeway that could have triggered anger in PF.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

And KB had told her mother earlier that they were going to PF's home for dinner.

Can you link the reference for this?

 

[The Night Watchman]

See "Authentication Relay Attack" in this paper for some idea how a false ping could be generated. However, being able to send a false ping doesn't mean you can send a spoofed text message.

Nice work. I believe you are saying that even if you could intentionally ping a tower 800 miles away, you could not make it appear that messages were sent from that location.

The police know where Kelsey's phone sent the texts from. From information given this is assumed by most of us to be Gooding, Idaho.

I believe what you are saying is that this discussion is unnecessary. Even if you could remotely ping a remote tower, you couldn't send texts messages from that tower. Correct?

 

[cattlekate]

And KB had told her mother earlier that they were going to PF's home for dinner.

? Correct me if I’m wrong, but CB just said KB told her that KB was going out to dinner. There was no identification with who or where.

 

[KSinMT]

Wouldn't they be able to tell where the texts from her phone were sent from on the 25th? Were those text messages associated with the ping in Gooding, ID?? Or could they have been sent from somewhere else?

 

[MassGuy]

LE probably is scratching their heads. If there was anything incriminating in the days before or after in any texts or calls, PF would have been done for, long ago.

It takes time to go through all of this data, and fortunately, the CBI and FBI are involved.

This isn’t the type of thing you rush.

One night at some point in the future, he’ll go to bed in blissful ignorance and wake up to a knock on his door...

If he did it.

 

[whoizzit]

No

PF does not know this stuff.

He did not know one ping would escape to a tower in Idaho..

He had no clue about Idaho

BSBM

I'm curious as to how you know what PF knows or doesn't know about "this stuff."

Mind explaining your declaimed knowledge about him, please?

Or is this your trustworthy opinion only?

 

[JEM1975]

Can you buy pregnancy test kits in supermarkets?

Yes

 

[Sanz]

No. his attorney would not have that info yet.

Is it possible that any LEO in that area have access to that information.

 

[rangerover12]

The simple answer is "no". That tower received a radio signal that claimed to be from KB's phone. Even if you have some theory where it wasn't really KB's phone, there still had to be some piece of radio equipment transported to within ~100 miles of the tower.

My assumption is that PF isn't some sort of engineer or advanced radio hobbyist. The ability to generate a ping using anything but KB's actual phone is going to be well outside the ability of almost anyone. Even if you had the knowledge to generate a false ping, pulling together the custom equipment to do so on short notice would be difficult.

• See "Authentication Relay Attack" in this paper for some idea how a false ping could be generated. However, being able to send a false ping doesn't mean you can send a spoofed text message.

I am not implying that PF was smart

I am not implying that he was trying to send a ping to a tower in Idaho

I was asking about if it was possible to send a cell phone PING, single ping hundreds of miles. And under what conditions that could occur.

If it is possible, then the whole Idaho ping thing, may not imply anything at all about his location or travels.

Rather than him cleverly driving a 1200 mile trip in one day, avoiding detection and figuring out when he got to Idaho, how to send ONLY a single ping. It would mean he could have easily been in his county the whole time.

 

[JEM1975]

Good answer to a question

But, not an answer to the question I am asking.

What could have been in that bag, that if PF saw it, could have IMMEDIATELY made him emotionally harmful?

Is there something? In YOUR opinion

If there is, that could be a reason LE has not mentioned what was purchased.

I really like the way you think outside the box! That's what we need in cases like this.

 

[alucardsdream]

BSBM

I'm curious as to how you know what PF knows or doesn't know about "this stuff."

Mind explaining your declaimed knowledge about him, please?

Or is this your trustworthy opinion only?

I was just wondering myself how trustworthy this was...

There's mo way we will know for sure what PF knew until he agrees to sit down and tell the truth, whether he was involved or not.

 

[GHgal]

I am wondering what he disposed of from trailer that was at the waste facility. Was the trailer it searched? Was it on his property during the search? Could he have stored it at a friends with potential evidence inside to dispose of later?

Patrick Frazee spotted at waste management facility, police return to his property

 

[Jennifer17]

I was just wondering myself how trustworthy this was...

There's mo way we will know for sure what PF knew until he agrees to sit down and tell the truth, whether he was involved or not.

Totally agree, on both points.

 

[Wsimm]

I don't think question #3 I posed (that he's protecting someone else) is likely. But...I can think of two VERY UNLIKELY possibilities where that could unfold and I bet others could think of more...

1. If Kelsey was considering moving out of state or reporting PF for some sort of violence toward her, due to relationship problems, someone else who loved the baby/him could have overreacted and accidentally or intentionally injured or killed her.

2. An accident could have occurred. For example, if people are angry and someone goes to pull away from the house in a fury and hits her with a car...or goes to take the baby from her and knocks her down the stairs.

AGAIN, I don't think this is likely. Just occurred to me bc I was asking myself why (other than his firsthand guilt) might he not plead with people to help find her (almost like he's conceding she's dead) and why might he not give statements to the police? And it just popped in my head, as a very unlikely possibility, that if a loved one or lifelong friend was responsible (particularly if it was an accident in the heat of the moment), that he might be trying to neither lead or mislead LE...so they could not come back and say "You lied to the public and asked them to search for her when you knew something had happened to her..."

Just silly theorizing probably.

FYI, here's how I answer my first two questions.
1. I think it was more likely heat of the moment. Might've meant to scare her, but ended up killing her.
2. I think it's more likely it was not witnessed either. But it did give me pause to see those two guys who were willing to go to the dump with him and be the ones who took care of everything while he sat in the car. That's for sure loyalty under the circumstances. Just saying.

THIS! In the event if anyone in my circle is ever a suspect in a missing persons case and even if I know without a shadow of a doubt their innocent......We will not be visiting a Waste Management facility TOGETHER. Sorry, I love and support ya but.......you’re on your own!

 

[CuriousMaine]

No

PF does not know this stuff.

At 5:12 PM, on that one day he turned the phone on, probably for the last time to see if her work had replied or what her mom had sent.

He did not know one ping would escape to a tower in Idaho.

He likely had to use the phone in wifi mode to send the texts and knew enough to do that to avoid detection.

He had no clue about Idaho

This may be why LE mounted no search effort in Idaho at all

Source? Do you know PF?

 

[rangerover12]

New at this, but thought I’d throw it out there.

I’m at 80% sure PF did it and is just waiting for the case to go cold, but the 20% also has some explanations- what if KB and PF did have a somewhat rocky relationship towards the end? Say KB wanted more and PF could have been somewhat clueless. My experience with men is that they can be clueless at times. They could have exchanged the baby and if they had broken up (possibly temporarily in PF’s mind), they may not have had plans for TDay dinner. Possibly KB fibbed to her mom to keep things copacetic for the time being or maybe the statements about what KB told CB aren’t completely clear. KB could have had other plans that evening and after being picked up, things went south. Say it was someone she worked with - they would know to text work and would likely know of PF.

Part of the reason the 20% exists is because I grew up in a farming community. We had horses growing up and I even have a blue heeler that’s been bred from a working line. Growing up around these people, I don’t find what I’ve seen of PF’s behavior to be unusual. A lot of the farm men that I grew up with would seem a bit callous and tended to be pretty clueless about women. I could imagine PF being this way, and with that, also have no desire to entertain the public. His significant other is missing and right now he has to take care of his daughter. Everything else might seem wasteful to him. With PF having grown up with LE as family, he might know that he should always get a lawyer. Or hell, his mom could be calling the shots for him. I also don’t think his treatment of the baby is odd.. it’s his daughter. At a time like this, he might feel that only he can keep her safe. Maybe he has no relationship with CB or KB’s family. I wouldn’t let my infant be with strangers even if they are technically family especially not if everyone seems to be coming for my throat.

Just thinking out loud.

Makes sense