CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #11

[Cardinal47]

Who said that we had proof that a crime has been committed? Investigators from WPPD, CBI, and the FBI are trying to determine if that's the case now. All we 'know' from them is that they have said that KB's disappearance is 'suspicious'. MOO

If there is no proof of a crime committed then why did they get a search warrant and come back and tear up the man's property?
I think there was a rush to judgement with very few facts.

 

[Kapua]

If there is no proof of a crime committed then why did they get a search warrant and come back and tear up the man's property?
I think there was a rush to judgement with very few facts.

Investigators were/are looking for proof. They have more facts that led them to that property than we do. (Hint: cell phone coordinates.) ETA: And if/when they get proof, they will make an arrest. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

I would guess that whoever took the phone to Idaho would have turned the location setting to "off" the minute they had control of the phone IF they were aware of it. Perhaps that's why LE's main focus has only been on PF's and KB's properties? If the location setting was "on" on the 22nd and that changed?

That's a good point. I didn't think of that. I didn't even know all phones have a location setting.

 

[darring21]

LE could attempt to get specific (time, date) location information from Google. More depts have been using this technique lately.

Does LE need to have possession of the phone to get that?

 

[PommyMommy]

Police return to Berreth’s home for another follow up search
In both press conferences on the search for missing mother Kelsey Berreth, Woodland Park Police Chief Miles De Young has been adamant about his intention to exhaust all avenues in the investigation.

“At this point, we are considering every possibility. And I’m not willing to jump to conclusions, or label people involved in this highly complex investigation,” De Young said on Dec. 10.

Those words were backed up by more police action Wednesday, when local, state and federal law enforcement returned to Kelsey Berreth’s home with evidence response equipment.

Police have not said exactly why they returned to either property, what they are looking for or what they have already found, citing the ongoing investigation.

Mark Pfoff, who served as a detective in the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office for 20 years before transitioning into becoming a computer forensics expert, said there are a few reasons why law enforcement would return.

“Specifically for something that was overlooked or missed. Or, now you’ve discovered more information because of the original execution of the search warrant, so you realize I want to go back,” Pfoff said. “There’s some other things that I want to look at now.”

 

[susiQ]

Yes, but I am more concerned with where the phone was on Nov. 22, the last day KB was seen (by Safeway's camera) as far as we know.

Absolutely! I just have this feeling that LE know her phone went to his property that day, the 22nd, and that's why they're focusing their attention there. One would think after this amount of time, if they couldn't determine that they would rule him out and begin focusing in another direction. They are not yet doing that.

 

[PommyMommy]

Investigators were/are looking for proof. They have more facts that led them to that property than we do. (Hint: cell phone coordinates.) ETA: And if/when they get proof, they will make an arrest. MOO

YES. ^^^

 

[Irmese]

But the opposite might be true as well. The pressure to marry might be higher if a woman really wants to have a child. KB already has a child! And people are different, but would a woman who got out of a hay farm want to go back to a farm and spend a life there? And PF seems good-looking enough, and tall, but in aviation, there are lots of good-looking men, sharing her passion. Between them two, I think she could compare, and be the first to get disappointed in what he was offering. Keep in mind, financially she was independent from him.

I don't think she had an affair, maybe she wanted to grow professionally, and maybe I am thinking of a farm life as uninteresting because I am a big city girl. (Even a suburb is dull to me, schools are good here, though).

So perhaps you are right and I am wrong, but looking at her, pretty, young, a pilot, I think, gal, you have chances to grow in your profession, the sky, don't tie yourself up to the farm. Farm is soil.

P. S. Agree about him being a mess, btw.

I think she liked the idea of living on a ranch, especially if she could keep her job and continue to live outside of big cities. I'm pretty sure he was not 100% honest that the ranch belongs to his mother when they first met, and maybe that was part of the problem. I seriously doubt she met a cowboy and expected him to move to a city. Who wants to live with other people right on top of them? What if she never knew the ranch isn't in his name? He might think his mom is leaving the ranch to him, but she's only in her 50's probably will live another 30 years. He might feel like he can't marry KB because then she will find out what a liar he is, and he has no intention of leaving the ranch and his mother.

I believe when PF picked KB up, they had that discussion. He might have given her another reason to put off the marriage and she decided she would go home and take K with her. That's when he decided to do whatever he did.

MOO.

 

[Kapua]

Does LE need to have possession of the phone to get that?

All I know (paging our engineers) is that in the case of Charli Scott, investigators were able to pinpoint her last known location and find her partial remains (in a tropical rainforest) by getting location information from a shared app called Life 360. They never did find her actual phone.

 

[Lhughessk]

If you look up Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder, you will find all the information you are looking for.

I have an internal debate all the time about the role of mental illness in murder. Certainly there are bona fide mental disorders... many of them. But do the diagnoses of these illnesses get over-applied? Is Chris Watts really suffering from a mental disorder that made him different from other people? I know it would give us a lot of comfort to segregate these monsters into their own categories and know that “a decent person” would never do those acts. But what if he isn’t suffering from a disorder at all - what if a couple of months before August he was just like anyone else, flawed but someone who loved his family, and then when left alone to live like a single person for a few weeks, opportunities presented themselves and he made conscious choices that took him down a path. And he was plenty social enough and giving enough and emotional enough for NK, but turned off his feelings for his family in the process. His choices led him there, not some disorder, is my current line of thinking. MHO

 

[SharonNeedles]

If there is no proof of a crime committed then why did they get a search warrant and come back and tear up the man's property?
I think there was a rush to judgement with very few facts.

When this is all said and done there needs to be a review of what info justified the warrant.

 

[Irmese]

Thank you for posting that. So "only" 55% of murdered women were killed by a former or current partner. I'm sure it depends on the circumstances and every case is different.

You know, I think we should explore the possibility that KB went off with or was abducted by a stranger or acquaintance.

One thing to think about---KB's house is centrally located in Woodland Park, and is a few-minutes walk to several bars and micro-breweries on Highway 24, the main thoroughfare in town. (See picture.) It is very possible that, after PF picked the child up from her house on Thanksgiving Day, KB grabbed her purse and her phone and walked down the street to get something to eat or drink. She could have gone to meet a friend or friends, or she might have gone alone. Lots and lots of traffic on Hwy 24, as it is one of the major routes from the plains into the mountains---lots of people would have been traveling through Woodland Park on their way to ski resorts and other mountain destinations. Plenty of unsavory characters.

Note: The "pin" is KB's house.

So the unsub then sends texts to her job and PF. And no one has said they saw her with or without someone else at one of these bars or microbreweries.

 

[Celt1997]

I have an internal debate all the time about the role of mental illness in murder. Certainly there are bona fide mental disorders... many of them. But do the diagnoses of these illnesses get over-applied? Is Chris Watts really suffering from a mental disorder that made him different from other people? I know it would give us a lot of comfort to segregate these monsters into their own categories and know that “a decent person” would never do those acts. But what if he isn’t suffering from a disorder at all - what if a couple of months before August he was just like anyone else, flawed but someone who loved his family, and then when left alone to live like a single person for a few weeks, opportunities presented themselves and he made conscious choices that took him down a path. And he was plenty social enough and giving enough and emotional enough for NK, but turned off his feelings for his family in the process. His choices led him there, not some disorder, is my current line of thinking. MHO

I always struggle with things like mental illness and criminals.

To me there is obviously a mental fault if you think that stealing, murdering, and raping are fine decisions to make. So, at the broadest sense, every criminal (IMO) is mentally ill. The problem becomes, how to address that in terms of the legal system.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

There are cell tower 'pings' and then there's GPS, which uses satellites. (Where is our engineer this morning?)

This might help some understand better.
Mobile phone tracking - Wikipedia

 

[BRRI]

Police return to Berreth’s home for another follow up search
In both press conferences on the search for missing mother Kelsey Berreth, Woodland Park Police Chief Miles De Young has been adamant about his intention to exhaust all avenues in the investigation.

“At this point, we are considering every possibility. And I’m not willing to jump to conclusions, or label people involved in this highly complex investigation,” De Young said on Dec. 10.

Those words were backed up by more police action Wednesday, when local, state and federal law enforcement returned to Kelsey Berreth’s home with evidence response equipment.

Police have not said exactly why they returned to either property, what they are looking for or what they have already found, citing the ongoing investigation.

Mark Pfoff, who served as a detective in the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office for 20 years before transitioning into becoming a computer forensics expert, said there are a few reasons why law enforcement would return.

“Specifically for something that was overlooked or missed. Or, now you’ve discovered more information because of the original execution of the search warrant, so you realize I want to go back,” Pfoff said. “There’s some other things that I want to look at now.”

"highly complex investigation" hmmm.

 

[whoizzit]

There are cell tower 'pings' and then there's GPS, which uses satellites. (Where is our engineer this morning?)

Honeymoon.

 

[Lhughessk]

I no longer consider PF and KB to be significant others based on the information to date. I believe that they were co-parenting the baby and otherwise had no social relationship.

PF picked up the baby on 11/22. KB was on her own time. KB's phone sent a followup text explaining whatever. By 12/2 PF never had reason to be concerned given whatever KB's text had told him.

Not everyone is tethered all the time or has some need to be in continuous contact with others. Why should PF care what KB is doing other than information about exchanging the baby? What she does is not his business.

Speculation that they were broken up has no basis in fact. It’s no different than speculating that she was mentally ill.

But regardless of relationship status, they are co-parenting a child together. A child that is perhaps beginning to form her first words, maybe take first steps, and probably has a phone put to her ear to be able to hear the absent parent’s voice while with the other parent. It isn’t normal for a week to go by and a mom not check on her 14-month-old, any more than it would be normal for the dad to do so. And we have no reason to think that prior to her disappearance, KB acted any differently than a normal mother would.

Let’s say you go on a road trip in a similar circumstance to what PF is saying KB did. And somewhere along the way, you run off the road and are trapped upside down in your vehicle, out of sight of the road and unable to reach your phone. At that moment, knowing that all the strength and independence in the world won’t save you, what are you thinking? About how it isn’t PF’s business the pickle you’re in? Or about how you’re hoping that he makes it his business?

 

[Noharg]

"highly complex investigation" hmmm.

Police return to Berreth’s home for another follow up search

His use of the word “now” implies, IMO, now that they have other information or knowledge.


Edited to add link

 

[Tippy Lynn]

LE could attempt to get specific (time, date) location information from Google. More depts have been using this technique lately.

Does LE need to have possession of the phone to get that?

All I know (paging our engineers) is that in the case of Charli Scott, investigators were able to pinpoint her last known location and find her partial remains (in a tropical rainforest) by getting location information from a shared app called Life 360. They never did find her actual phone.

No, LE would not need to have possession of the actual phone to get location information from Google.

 

[jillianelaine]

While PF may have placed those two texts and indeed bought time to do "whatever" he also placed himself in a highly suspicious position by not sending a text to CB. What other loose ends has he left behind? And if she disappeared on Thanksgiving Day, why wait 3 days to create those texts? He must have known from day one that she'd be missed by family and friends. It does appear likely that she did disappear on the holiday because the brother seemed certain she baked that morning and the muffins were still on the counter and no one had consumed anymore. (I assume he knew this because she had told her mother when they spoke) So where was she those days prior to the ping? My guess is she isn't far from her home while the ping was to suggest the very opposite.