CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #35 *ARREST*

[susiQ]

OK maybe we don’t have a witness but We have the interviews with the R’s.
Lol

True, but didn't they call LE a bit late? I suspect others knew of KK's possible involvement right from the get go. Possibly and anonymous "tip" to a hotline? I know nothing is anonymous in the true sense anymore but just thinking someone tipped them off and then sat back and watched it happen.

 

[CarolinePolly]

It is my understanding that the attorney who had a secretary who was KKL's best friend saw her mother's plea that someone knows something and the attorney or his wife told KKL that if she (KKL) was not going to the police, they were going to the police. I think they did go to the police.

I don’t like these jokers but I’m gonna refer to the daily mail see screenshots.

And y’all if this is true then KK would’ve gone to the police November 27.

 

[Hatfield]

It is my understanding that the attorney who had a secretary who was KKL's best friend saw her mother's plea that someone knows something and the attorney or his wife told KKL that if she (KKL) was not going to the police, they were going to the police. I think they did go to the police.

Oh yeah. And there's that
The R's and BFF getting scared finally because they had some knowledge of past murder threats by PF and company.

 

[susiQ]

Do we even know the EXACT date the R's notified LE of what they knew? It sure wasn't soon enough, IMHO.

 

[ajaylee]

That's kind of ironic, then. Perhaps it's another sign that PF wasn't as clever as he thought.

IIRC, PF suggested to LE that KB might have taken off to visit her sick grandmother. The phone pinged along a possible route from Colorado to her grandmother's house. That might have worked - something went wrong on the way to Grandma's house - except KB left both cars at home.

If the phone hadn't turned up 30 miles from KK's house, I'm not sure PF would still be behind bars right now. It looks to me like he may have tried to get too clever and ended up burning himself.

 

[ajaylee]

Do we even know the EXACT date the R's notified LE of what they knew? It sure wasn't soon enough, IMHO.

They've kind of dropped out of sight, but I think they could have easily saved KB's life if they had reported that first conversation with their employee to LE. I think that particularly as attorneys, they should have known that the authorities were the proper people to deal with something like this.

 

[riolove77]

I’m still a page or two short of being completely caught up on this thread but the Discovery Demand doc does seem to imply the existence of a witness to the tampering act KK is accused of. (One example below, BBM.)

I’m wondering if this is just additional conversations with BFF we haven’t been privy to or if it implies that there is indeed a 3rd party involved that we don’t yet know about. Hmmm...

“In the instant case, almost every version of the Accuser's statement has been contradicted by another version. This leaves every statement made to anyone worthy of impeachment.”

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2019CR17/D-02 Discovery Demand.pdf

What this quote means is that everyone the prosecution intends to call is subject to impeachment because everything every witness has been told is different from what every other witness has been told (according to the defense) and there's no way they can all be telling an accurate version, therefore they are all subject to being impeached on the stand and the defense is entitled to their information without the prosecution attempting to insinuate that it is not material to the defense's case.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Do we even know the EXACT date the R's notified LE of what they knew? It sure wasn't soon enough, IMHO.

I don't know how accurate this is, but this states, within four days of making the call to the FBI, Patrick Frazee was arrested and PF was arrested on Friday, December 21st.

Idaho couple say they called the FBI after hearing about the 'plot' to kill Kelsey Berreth | Daily Mail Online

 

[susiQ]

What this quote means is that everyone the prosecution intends to call is subject to impeachment because everything every witness has been told is different from what every other witness has been told (according to the defense) and there's no way they can all be telling an accurate version, therefore they are all subject to being impeached on the stand and the defense is entitled to their information without the prosecution attempting to insinuate that it is not material to the defense's case.

Hope that makes sense!

Yes, that makes perfect sense!!
ed: Thank you!

 

[susiQ]

I don't know how accurate this is, but this states, within four days of making the call to the FBI, Patrick Frazee was arrested and PF was arrested on Friday, December 21st.

Idaho couple say they called the FBI after hearing about the 'plot' to kill Kelsey Berreth | Daily Mail Online

So, that would be say the 17th of Dec.

LE knew much more before that, either by "tip" or cell phone data. They needed something substantial for the judge to sign off on the search warrant for the Frazee property which took place on the 14th Dec. I suspect when the search took place, the R's KNEW they needed to proceed into damage control mode. JMO
ed: to make sense

 

[PommyMommy]

What this quote means is that everyone the prosecution intends to call is subject to impeachment because everything every witness has been told is different from what every other witness has been told (according to the defense) and there's no way they can all be telling an accurate version, therefore they are all subject to being impeached on the stand and the defense is entitled to their information without the prosecution attempting to insinuate that it is not material to the defense's case.

Hope that makes sense!

Yes, it does. Thank you!

@PommyMommy While we wait for the reporter to comment,,, I spent a good part of yesterday explaining the narrow charges and almost had a heartattack reading "accomplice" literally.

Deep breaths.

Unless this reporter from a small, Washington news outlet somehow managed to get an exclusive interview with the Teller County DA, who won't (and shouldn't) give local media any further information than what's been posted online, I think it's safe to assume that the reporter has taken liberties with the words, "suspected accomplice."
MOO

 

[Dave F.]

I thought there were rumors about KK before the R's interview.

Those rumors were attributed, early on, to "Two family members". I don't know how anyone else sees it, but I think they keep inserting themselves; so I'm giving them the handle "2FM's". I'm further guessing that, by the time this is over, they are no longer members of KK's family. Call it a hunch, I suppose. IMO

 

[susiQ]

What this quote means is that everyone the prosecution intends to call is subject to impeachment because everything every witness has been told is different from what every other witness has been told (according to the defense) and there's no way they can all be telling an accurate version, therefore they are all subject to being impeached on the stand and the defense is entitled to their information without the prosecution attempting to insinuate that it is not material to the defense's case.

Hope that makes sense!

Just thinking. It would be interesting to know why these witnesses all have a different story. IF, they all got their "story" from KK, this only confirms she's consummate liar and that would not look good on her. But then again, nothing she's done looks good on her.

 

[InvSmith]

I know the conversation has moved on, but I didn't see these corrected and I always think it's best to get the details clear.

My point being was the charge is Murder 1 and the robbery is a method of explaining how it happened per LE. So far, the only person indicated to be involved in the solicitations per the R's all three were KK and now tampering is KK (I am not saying this is a great source but it is a source). If she is involved in all three solicitations and he is named in charge 1 that leaves charge 2. The of prosecution will drop one of these charges 1 or 2. The only report of what has been stolen or missing is her phone and purse with contents. Now, we do not have all the facts but if another person had committed a robbery resulting in a murder 1 charge, I think we would know. This leaves charge 2 being dropped and charge 1 being the primary.





I believe this is backward -- it was explained that the felony murder charge/theory is about a homicide that occurs during the commission of a robbery, not the other way around.



IIRC the neighbor left their own townhome sometime during that half hour timeframe, on the way out to their TG dinner celebration. Neighbor did not see PF's truck arrive or leave, only saw that it was there at the time they (neighbor) left their own home, which they estimated as being between 12:30 and 1pm.

I don't think we know which day any potential cleanup took place? No reason it had to be on the 25th.

 

[Dave F.]

I don’t like these jokers but I’m gonna refer to the daily mail see screenshots.

And y’all if this is true then KK would’ve gone to the police November 27.

The Daily Mail really did get the quotes right this time, but there was heavy discussion about those dates in a previous thread. If it ever gets to court, I'm sure Mrs. R is going to have plenty of opportunity to explain how her calendar works. IMO

 

[scmom]

Those rumors were attributed, early on, to "Two family members". I don't know how anyone else sees it, but I think they keep inserting themselves; so I'm giving them the handle "2FM's". I'm further guessing that, by the time this is over, they are no longer members of KK's family. Call it a hunch, I suppose. IMO

So you think by the time this is over they'll be outlaws instead of in-laws?

 

[ajaylee]

Just thinking. It would be interesting to know why these witnesses all have a different story. IF, they all got their "story" from KK, this only confirms she's consummate liar and that would not look good on her. But then again, nothing she's done looks good on her.

It will be interesting to see who these 'witnesses' are. There's the lady who lived next door to KB - PF might have told a different story there. There's KK's BFF, the one who went to her attorney bosses, but who, as far as we know, only had hearsay evidence to offer. IIRC, LE said early on that PF hadn't left town during the Thanksgiving break, so I'm guessing he's got someone who provided him with an alibi (real or fake).

Based on the information that we have now, it doesn't sound like there would be a very long witness list. I don't think of PF or KK as 'witnesses', but I guess they kind of are. Odd, you'd think that they would have co-ordinated their stories, particularly since the crime was planned in advance, and not just a spur-of-the-moment act.

There is also the possibility that the conflicting 'witnesses' are PF and KK and they are already trying to throw each other under the bus.

 

[InvSmith]

That's probably a good indication that is NOT what she admitted then, isn't it? IMO

Correct. The investigators/ agents would have worked to place her elsewhere than the home.

 

[Hatch]

I'm wondering who's paying for this "high profile" lawyer.

What stood out to me was a quote by EN " All we have to do is prove they don't have a case " that was a quote from a Google search Not concerning this case. Sort of EN's motto. IMO sounds like KK will have very good representation .

 

[InvSmith]

If she disposed of the phone/sent the texts, she was helping in the commission of the murder, to some people. The law sometimes does not use the Webster's Dictionary for writing laws. For example, if you are riding in a riding lawn mower down the highway, the riding lawn mower is not a motor vehicle in the eyes of the law, but is a motor vehicle according to common sense.

@1mtroyal Totally agree. An accomplice in my world has a very specific meaning. Also, it looks like VA's fines/years were cited not CO's per @NoeticSoul.