CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #59

[10ofRods]

I'm just not so sure how he thought he could get away with it, killing her at the condo?

He also took a huge risk, trusting that Krystal would actually do the clean up. He didn't even worry for a moment that she wouldn't do her part? Did it not ever dawn on him, that maybe she might have had a conscious and would call LE instead of finishing the dirty deed of cleaning his mess?

His cockiness and confidence is just astounding to me.

Grandiosity (being very very over confident) is a symptom of a couple of personality disorders and at least one major mental health diagnosis. At any rate, a person can be grandiose, like PF, without a diagnosis. It's just more common than we think.

People who think they are very very smart are usually in the middle to high middle category on actual IQ tests. Students who are sure they got an A on a test are more likely to get B's, C's and even D's and F's. Those who think they didn't do so well are more likely to get an A.

To put it another way, in the case of PF, I think he is both below average or average in intelligence and grandiose. He is also ignorant. It's obvious he had quite a bit of help in this crime, and oddly, some people (like KK) feel very attracted to people like PF (firstly, on appearances). She wanted to take care of him, solve his problems, help him out. Why she submitted to his plans is beyond me.

Can you imagine if PF had had to clean up things all by himself?

 

[PommyMommy]

The Gazette on Twitter
We're coming off a busy news day and following several big stories:
#PatrickFrazee trial coverage https://gazette.com/news/patrick-frazee-trial-camera-spotted-frazee-at-kelsey-berreth-s/article_2b43940a-ff12-11e9-85ae-47e207a7655e.html …
#ElectionDay is here https://gazette.com/news/el-paso-county-leads-colorado-in-early-election-returns/article_6f82cc9a-ff2f-11e9-b703-532699881dd2.html …
Southern Colorado man with #KKK ties arrested in synagogue bomb plot https://gazette.com/news/local/southern-colorado-man-with-kkk-ties-arrested-in-synagogue-bomb/article_da3b774e-ff52-11e9-9806-bff4064df864.html …

11:06 AM - 5 Nov 2019

 

[PommyMommy]

NOV 5, 2019 - Updated 32 min ago
Patrick Frazee trial: Camera spotted Frazee at Kelsey Berreth's home 11 times on day of alleged killing, investigator testifies

 

[Lhughessk]

If he pushed it out the door with his foot, that would not of been noticed. He was a strong enough man to push 100lbs with one foot easily IMO .

Disagree. Not talking about whether he could push it. The question is, could he walk out that door and appear on camera to be walking normally? For me the answer is absolutely not. And 100 pounds in a tote that isn’t wheeled is not easy even for a strong person.

But something just occurred to me. There isn’t moving video footage from the camera, right? Only still photos? If all they have are still photos, I could see how you wouldn’t be able to tell a difference As long as he isn’t bending down to use his hands.

 

[10ofRods]

SO TRUE. All I can think of is he didn't think there would be much to clean up and could take care of it himself. Seems he couldn't wait any longer as his rage got the 'best' of him. (Or his rage got the worst of him).

Totally agree. He had no clue what was going to happen, given his timing and manner of murdering Kelsey. He was clearly not a true crime buff, or even moderately aware of how much blood comes out of a body. I believe he dismembered her (hence all the blood in the living room and behind the couch cushions; for all we know he stuck her on the couch initially, perhaps in an attempt to make her look like she was sleeping while he took Baby K through the LR).

So many murderers only think through the lead-up and committing of the crime, with only a bit of thought about the aftermath. I think many of them get into a headspace where they are thinking, "I don't care what happens to me, I'm going to kill this b*/&h, no matter what."

Then, once their rage and adrenalin subside (doesn't take long), they're all, "What did I just do? What do I do now?" Because, as it turns out, they really really don't want to be caught. They actually think they're near-perfect and always-right. It'll be really hard to keep thinking that from prison.

 

[303gmf]

Can someone explain why PF has a white tent to enter the courthouse?
Are they afraid someone will take pot shots at him?[/QUOTE]
The totally way overboard special treatment both inside the courthouse and”tent protection” makes me so thankful not to be a Teller County taxpayer !!

 

[oviedo]

Disagree. Not talking about whether he could push it. The question is, could he walk out that door and appear on camera to be walking normally? For me the answer is absolutely not. And 100 pounds in a tote that isn’t wheeled is not easy even for a strong person.

But something just occurred to me. There isn’t moving video footage from the camera, right? Only still photos? If all they have are still photos, I could see how you wouldn’t be able to tell a difference As long as he isn’t bending down to use his hands.

Oh but what we wouldn't give for ring doorbell backed up to the cloud.... we would know so much more IMO and have much clear evidence.. IMO

 

[AnnaGrace]

This might be crazy but wonder if he had a moving dolly in his pickup? You would likely go out the door backward and then turn and pull.

 

[Seattle1]

I'm going to guess part of the testimony today will include the time/date stamp for each occurrence IMO

I recall previous cases with expert witness testimony re. digital forensics and their use of "cellbrite."

Experts are also double-checking for timestamp manipulation, and their analysis reports in UTM (universal time) that has to be adjusted to the local/user time zone for testimony (+ - hours).

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Can a felon become a nurse?
The answer is yes....Short Answer: Some felons have become nurses while others have been turned down. As with many instances involving felons, the answer can be complicated…but “in general,” It’s somewhat possible for felon can become a nurse five years after the completion of their sentence (which includes parole, if that was part of the sentence).


I wondered if KK could be a nurse again.....the above link is pretty good explanation of the answer.

below is a Colorado answer but it’s an older answer, not a current one

https://www.backgroundchecks.com/co...ng-for-Stronger-Background-Checks-in-Colorado

Since the Colorado Board of Nursing does not require license applicants to gothrough background checks, someone convicted of abusing a disabled person could feasibly get licensed in the state.Nov 7,2016

I cannot find a more recent ruling.....although I read that Colorado was looking into the current law.

I recall researching this before and for Idaho, it's definitely not black and white but determined on a case by case basis. MOO

 

[Lhughessk]

Totally agree. He had no clue what was going to happen, given his timing and manner of murdering Kelsey. He was clearly not a true crime buff, or even moderately aware of how much blood comes out of a body. I believe he dismembered her (hence all the blood in the living room and behind the couch cushions; for all we know he stuck her on the couch initially, perhaps in an attempt to make her look like she was sleeping while he took Baby K through the LR).

So many murderers only think through the lead-up and committing of the crime, with only a bit of thought about the aftermath. I think many of them get into a headspace where they are thinking, "I don't care what happens to me, I'm going to kill this b*/&h, no matter what."

Then, once their rage and adrenalin subside (doesn't take long), they're all, "What did I just do? What do I do now?" Because, as it turns out, they really really don't want to be caught. They actually think they're near-perfect and always-right. It'll be really hard to keep thinking that from prison.

I’d be surprised if he dismembered her. Seems like that would leave more mess than KK could possibly clean up in 4 hours. And it would require bringing in tools to accomplish that task. Very time- and labor-intensive. My impression of PF is laziness with regard to this crime. He didn’t want to go too much out of his way to accomplish it. He preferred that KK do it all for him - killing AND cleanup. When she wouldn’t kill, he left her with the cleanup because as a rancher, he considers cleaning to be “woman’s work.”

 

[oviedo]

Well, it wasn’t his home or his closet. He didn’t live here and we don’t know if he kept any clothes there.

How he got out of there without blood on him is one of the easier mysteries to solve. All he had to do was wear two shirts. And while she was blindfolded, remove his jeans. After the deed was done, remove the bloody outer shirt and leave it for KK to dispose of. Put the jeans back on. All set.

I guess I've seen too many forensic file episodes and blood spatter seems to creep in everywhere - inside seams of shirts, etc. if he truly beat her with the baseball bat (and I think he did) the splatter would be tremendous IMO. I think he would have had to strip down and dispose of all his clothing including underthings - else there would be a smidge somewhere which reminds me of the items taken during the search of the ranch. Was there blood found ? I really want to know. All IMO

 

[Kapua]

This might be crazy but wonder if he had a moving dolly in his pickup? You would likely go out the door backward and then turn and pull.

That's what I was thinking. Or maybe he used some kind of heavy-duty cart with wheels, like this one:
Ironton Steel Utility Cart — 400-Lb. Capacity, 34in.L x 18in.W | Northern Tool + Equipment
MOO

 

[AnnaGrace]

Iirc, weren't Kelsey's and PF's cell phones traced heading down some roads toward Nash Ranch late after Thanksgiving dinner? I've always wondered if he left the tote with poor Kelsey in it while he had dinner with his family. Moo

 

[Hatch]

DBM

 

[Leader6518]

This might be crazy but wonder if he had a moving dolly in his pickup? You would likely go out the door backward and then turn and pull.

Testimony was that his back was to the camera in several still shots. If you are moving something as big as a tote, you would almost have to turn sideways to get it through the door. As a poster said earlier, it’s not video so we don’t know the effort it took. Or if he had paused to put it down for a second. Some of those cameras can delay a second or two before taking an image. At least on mine it does.

 

[Ccging]

I’m wondering if LE took down a list of any clothing that was at KB’s? We know they took several grey shirts of PF’s from the franch. Any chance there was one in a closet or drawer at KB’s that they can match up? I mean since PF IS so smart (ha) maybe just maybe he forgot about his other clean clothes that he had at KB’s if he ever stayed the night?

 

[dkryder]

one thing i have not figured out is the deal with the pictures maybe being out of sequence and the expert " acknowledged his analysis of timeline depends on when neighbor looked at each image in her phone. If she looked out of chronological sequence, pics would be jumbled, too" i'm thinking the timestamps are put there by the camera system at the time they are taken and would not change based on if someone looked at the pictures out of chronological sequence. so either the reporter misunderstood what the expert said or that expert needs to explain what he meant again, or i completely misunderstand this whole segment of questioning.

 

[NoSI]

Here

Here too...
Again in and out thou.

 

[Leader6518]

one thing i have not figured out is the deal with the pictures maybe being out of sequence and the expert " acknowledged his analysis of timeline depends on when neighbor looked at each image in her phone. If she looked out of chronological sequence, pics would be jumbled, too" i'm thinking the timestamps are put there by the camera system at the time they are taken and would not change based on if someone looked at the pictures out of chronological sequence. so either the reporter misunderstood what the expert said or that expert needs to explain what he meant again, or i completely misunderstand this whole segment of questioning.

My understanding is the photos were in the phones cache. Not from the actual camera. My doorbell cam takes a video and posts the time. I don’t think this was the case with the Arlo. Too much time had passed. So it is possible the times are when the neighbor opened the file on her phone. From one media post it talked about the neighbor having a stalking issue for the reason of the cameras. I know when I get a notification I always look at the time I get it. I would imagine I would be even more diligent about checking notices if I had a stalker.
ETA. Changing my crazy autocorrect