CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

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If KK will be back with her ex, than I can't find a word to describe him. I want to hope it won't happen and he will get a custody of their kids. She is an evil person same as PF, that is why he never doubted in her her and made her do what she did - he knew she will not betray him - she is not capable of normal human feelings ...

What is hard to me to understand is that sweet soul Kelsey's sad last years of life and horrific death...how PF could take control of her feelings so completely...Kb is educated, pretty , sweet, with loving family and friends who adored her... To uproot herself for some fishy internet cowboy ( romantic in the beginning and I can understand)... but right after her move - she saw nothing from him but disrespect, ,abuse, coldness, violence, deceit. He is a hillbilly with no money who lives with Mama at 30 yo, shows 0 intentions to commit and even after her pregnancy, still zero intentions to commit or even move in together, allows her relatives to harass and belittle her ( even while being pregnant), cruel to animals ( that alone would make me turn on my heels and walk away)...and she still there for him 100 percent...
I am thinking that sweet CB probably went thousand of times in her head over the situations and pains that she would love to intervene, save her daughter, help her understand what really is going on....I know I would...
Women who read KB story - you cannot change evil. No amount of kindness or empathy will help, it is just not their realm. All you can do is walk away asap...

This story is different from Shannan Watts...Chris showed zero violence, he really was not a bad husband and father, until he wasn't. PF showed his true colors from day one...
 
dixiegirl1035 said:
I saw that same quote again, and it makes me wonder which is the better one to Define what a Frazee'ism is?

The quote from the bank or this one?

"'He said "you know, if Kelsey wanted to commit suicide, she could go out to Pike National Forest and commit suicide and no one would ever find her." I said "Patrick, if her phone is pinging up in Idaho, how can she possibly be in Pike National Forest? And he just went "huh, yeah..."'

Patrick Frazee said 'if there is no body, there is no crime' after Kelsey Berreth disappeared | Daily Mail Online

SMDH

1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+++1+1+1+1+1= Beyond A Reasonable Doubt!!!

But it requires 2nd or 3rd level thinking and inferences. I guess that is why we saw in the voir dire that they asked can you do critical thinking. If somebody cannot do critical thinking, they cannot put two and two together, and all the circumstantial evidence, and put it together.

Many of us here do that with many cases, but seriously, that is what the prosecution was looking for as not everybody has the capability to do that even though most folks can do it easily? They know that some individuals just cannot cannot do such it appears.

The prosecution recognizes such, and hopefully got rid of those during voir dire.

MOO
Click to expand...
Excellent point about the importance of critical thinking and how it was looked for in potential jurors.

Perhaps WS might consider a similar void dire concept for certain threads, a kind of checklist of questions that you need to answer before you can enter the thread?

A few suggested questions:

1. Could it have been possible based on the timeline for KK to murder KB?
2. How many times did CCTV show PF entering KB condo on the alleged murder date?
3. How late was PF for Thanksgiving dinner at the Franch?
4. Did KK show LE the burn site after LE was previously not able to find it?
5. On what date did KK return to Idaho after being in CO?

MOO
 
MassGuy said:
Yeah, everyone else got it right but that CBS affiliate.

Yet another issue with the whole decorum order thing. One screw up can cause problems.
Click to expand...

I don't think anybody knows definitively if KK carried drugs on that particular September day or not but I can see why CBS preliminary hearing news reported that KK "carried the drugs she could use to poison the coffee."

What's obvious is that KB did not die from poisoned coffee.

Referencing Sam's tweet and Slater's testimony on 2/19/19,
I understand that PF wanted to poison KB, and KK suggested Ambien. I think KK suggested Ambien because she either had the Rx or access to it -- as testified by Slater:

Sam Kraemer@SamKraemerTV
Defense pointing out fact that Frazee never blatantly said he wanted Krystal to kill Kelsey Berreth. Slater agrees. Kenney felt like Frazee was just “pulling her chain”. Kenney is the one who suggested putting ambien in the macchiato. @KOAA #KrystalKenney #PatrickFrazee

2:54 PM - Feb 19, 2019

And

12:00 p.m.

Slater: Kenney said that Frazee suggested poisoning a Caramel Macchiato from Starbucks with Ambien and other drugs to kill Kelsey Berreth, she carried some of those drugs as a nurse. Kenney said she went to the Starbucks and drove to Berreth’s townhome on Sept. 23, 2018. That’s when Kenney told Slater she gave her the coffee, which she told investigators wasn’t drugged. Slater said Kenney told him she told Berreth that she was a neighbor and she wanted to thank Berreth for finding her dogs.

^^bbm

MOO

Blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

ETA: Correcting KK suggested - not KB!
 
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Beltonian said:
If KK will be back with her ex, than I can't find a word to describe him. I want to hope it won't happen and he will get a custody of their kids. She is an evil person same as PF, that is why he never doubted in her her and made her do what she did - he knew she will not betray him - she is not capable of normal human feelings ...

What is hard to me to understand is that sweet soul Kelsey's sad last years of life and horrific death...how PF could take control of her feelings so completely...Kb is educated, pretty , sweet, with loving family and friends who adored her... To uproot herself for some fishy internet cowboy ( romantic in the beginning and I can understand)... but right after her move - she saw nothing from him but disrespect, ,abuse, coldness, violence, deceit. He is a hillbilly with no money who lives with Mama at 30 yo, shows 0 intentions to commit and even after her pregnancy, still zero intentions to commit or even move in together, allows her relatives to harass and belittle her ( even while being pregnant), cruel to animals ( that alone would make me turn on my heels and walk away)...and she still there for him 100 percent...
I am thinking that sweet CB probably went thousand of times in her head over the situations and pains that she would love to intervene, save her daughter, help her understand what really is going on....I know I would...
Women who read KB story - you cannot change evil. No amount of kindness or empathy will help, it is just not their realm. All you can do is walk away asap...

This story is different from Shannan Watts...Chris showed zero violence, he really was not a bad husband and father, until he wasn't. PF showed his true colors from day one...
Click to expand...
I have known too many women who stuck it out, tried to hush it up, cover it up, explain it away, yet still were screamed at, verbally abused until their self worth was tattered. At that point they start the day with "What do you want to do today, honey?", and find themselves apologizing when the verbal altercation is not their fault just to make it go away. Easy for me to say, but once that behavior starts it has to be nipped in the bud. Treat me with respect or get the hell out. These abusers have a sixth sense in knowing who will not verbally fight back in front of others. And that is their strength. Bullying in public when the bullied woman can't fight back. Keeping her in her place. Poor Kelsey, meeting a person like that creep.
 
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girlhasnoname said:
Why oh why are we still beating this dead horse????
th


KK is not trial here, PF IS....
KK did not KILL KB, PF DID....
Without PF in the equation, Kelsey LIVES....
With PF in the equation, Kelsey DIES

Is KK a horrible, selfish, lying, manipulating, scheming. twisted, mentally unstable human being, of course she is.

Is she an actual murderer, NO.

MOO <sorry for the shouty caps> :oops:
Click to expand...
I'm guessing we're still beating this poor dead horse because others don't believe PF was capable of first beating one of his cattle with a bat and then poor Kelsey.

Thank you for reiterating the plain and simple facts of this case!
ed:sp
 
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steeltowngirl said:
Just found another gem by PF that I hadn’t seen before.
It’s right up there with “Well, exactly”.

“In early December, Frazee started to make many comments about Pike and San Isabel National Forest further west of Florissant, Moore said. Frazee said if Berreth had committed suicide, she could just run up to the national forest and do it and nobody would ever find her. Frazee said there were parts of the national forest where no man has ever been, or ever would be for thousands of years. Moore said Frazee brought this topic up often — that Berreth had gone to the national forest and had killed herself.

One time, Moore said he asked how that could be the case if investigators said her cell phone had pinged off a cell tower in Idaho, to which Frazee replied, “Huh. Yeah.”

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/kelsey-berreth-case/patrick-frazee-murder-trial-k-9-handlers-say-dogs-hit-on-items-tied-to-kelsey-berreths-killing
Click to expand...

It kind of sounds like his plan was to take her the national forest and kill her which would have been a lot smarter as far as MURDER goes and not getting caught. Ultimately, I think he did what he did because he enjoys the extreme brutality of beating and inflicting pain like kicking a helpless dog so hard it screams for ten minutes.
 
susiQ said:
I'm guessing we're still being this poor dead horse because others don't believe PF was capable of first beating one of his cattle with a bat and then poor Kelsey.

Thank you for reiterating the plain and simple facts of this case!
Click to expand...
like #1692 previous thread.

Anyway...?!

I think most of us get that PF is the lone person charged/on trial for the murder of KB. He is the POI charged with the murder. Right?
 
As it's Veteran's Day, just taking a moment here to publicly thank all of the WS members, guests, lurkers, etc., who served in the US military. Thank you for your bravery, your--- strength, and your willingness to defend our nation against the forces that would seek to harm us.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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enelram said:
MsBetsy, Not all hospitals have stringent record keeping regarding their drug supply.
We had a case in my area where a male nurse
was stealing lots of different drugs over many months. when he was finally caught he said he
was giving the extra drugs to his patients under his care, because the doctors weren't prescribing enough for their pain. He was quietly allowed
to resign. No charges. But within the year the
nurse murdered his father, mother and brother.
You may have heard about the case of the guy stealing money from his family to send $$ overseas to an online call girl.
I believe that a lack of character and morals
spills over into committing other crimes also.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's crazy.
In NY state they are very strict about anyone administering drugs.
When I worked in a halfway house we had to administer meds, and even if we made one little error in the med book we would be written up. Even one missing pill would never be overlooked.

I can't believe that a large hospital would not keep careful documentation of all medication. Scary.

I think if KK really had drugs with her when she went to Colorado, she probably did not take them from the hospital, but obtained them illegally somehow or had a prescription herself.

Imo
 
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Wishbone said:
tyia where can I find a link for that? I'll be honest, I really doubted that story.
Click to expand...
October 18, 2019 - Friday
Pre-trial readiness - 9am (Thread #56, post 879 - 955)

Viehman says she told coworkers about a strange person bringing her coffee, referencing KK.

AND...Judge is allowing another statement from KB to Hill about someone coming to her house & delivering coffee.

* KB described PF as genitalia to this same coworker. Just thought I'd throw that in.

JMO.
 
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Interesting in KK's testimony, when she said that she (acting as "Cassie Johnson") asked Kelsey for a future playdate, KB said she would have to ask her fiance. (This was in Sam's fb live video notes). How she tried building rapport using the baby and dog story.

If Krystal is being truthful about that exchange, wouldn't it have sent alarm bells off that Kelsey still thought PF was her fiance?? Didn't KK think that PF was supposed to be madly in love with KK?

Regarding the drugs, jmo, but valium and ambien are fairly easy prescriptions to obtain. I would suspect KK had her own prescriptions or family members or close friends who did. Just my experience, but I feel like those drugs are floating around many households, where there would be no need to risk pocketing them from one's tightly controlled workplace.

Opioids on the other hand are controlled much more tightly. Is that what the other narcotics were and why KK is being vague about those? Because valium and ambien even combined, in high quantities still seem unlikely to kill anyone. (Didn't Bernie and Ruth Madoff try to kill themselves by taking entire bottles of ambien only to wake up the next morning?)

So if this was really a practical murder strategy, I find it hard to believe that an ambien and valium cocktail were gonna succeed. Combined with a narcotic - maybe. But I don't believe, nor have we heard any evidence, that KK stole those meds from her hospital and imo there were less risky ways to obtain widely available prescription drugs like ambien and valium.

And yeah, not only is it creepy that a stranger would show up at her door with Starbucks, but just happens to know how she likes here coffee?? KK said that she asked KB if she wanted to go for coffee in the future and KB said no! I wonder if there are any texts from KB to PF telling her about the weirdo at her front door.
 
tmar said:
Start anew: move, change name by deed poll.
KK may find that quite exciting, starting a new life, KNOWING where she made mistakes in the past.
NEW men, another job perhaps traveling etc.
Another Country.
Click to expand...
Yeah pretty sure Karla Homolka thought the same. But she gets found no matter where she tries to hide,and no matter how many names she uses.
 
MsBetsy said:
Wow, that's crazy.
In NY state they are very strict about anyone administering drugs.
When I worked in a halfway house we had to administer meds, and even if we made one little error in the med book we would be written up. Even one missing pill would never be overlooked.

I can't believe that a large hospital would not keep careful documentation of all medication. Scary.

I think if KK really had drugs with her when she went to Colorado, she probably did not take them from the hospital, but obtained them illegally somehow or had a prescription herself.

Imo
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I think KK worked in the OR. If so, she had even less opportunity than some nurses to steal patients' drugs. I agree with you, in a well-managed hospital, it isn't that easy for a nurse to steal drugs, although PF may have thought so and KK might not have chosen to clue him in.

That said, I do recall thinking that if one was trying to 'poison' a straight person with drugs, Ambien and Valium seem odd choices. The 'plot' involving putting a sufficient quantity of drugs in KB's coffee and expecting her to not notice the taste was also ridiculous. She was home with Baby K. If KK had reported to PF that she had successfully fed KB a fatal dose of Ambien, how long did PF plan to leave Baby K home with a dying or dead mother?
 
ajaylee said:
I could be wrong, but I think KK worked in the OR. If so, she had even less opportunity than some nurses to steal patients' drugs. I agree with you, in a well-managed hospital, it isn't that easy for a nurse to steal drugs, although PF may have thought so and KK might not have chosen to clue him in.

That said, I do recall thinking that if one was trying to 'poison' a straight person with drugs, Ambien and Valium seem odd choices. The 'plot' involving putting a sufficient quantity of drugs in KB's coffee and expecting her to not notice the taste was also ridiculous. She was home with Baby K. If KK had reported to PF that she had successfully fed KB a fatal dose of Ambien, how long did PF plan to leave Baby K home with a dying or dead mother?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what doesn't make sense.
You would need a lot of ambian, or even valium, to actually be assured that it will kill someone.
So much that there is probably no way the person would not be able to taste it.

Imo
 
Lhughessk said:
But the trial is only expected to last two more weeks, right? What if sometime this week they call SF, she refuses to testify and is jailed on a contempt charge? All she has to do is sit in jail for less than two weeks; once the trial is over her contempt is a moot point. Right?
Click to expand...

I don't know. The judge could delay trial. But certainly that would be bad optics for PF, if his Momma SF is refusing to testify.
 
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