CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

[dixiegirl1035]

Darn, I'm going to miss Sam tonight. I hope people ask some of the questions that we been wanting clarification of here on the threads since he said most of tonight would be question and answers.

 

[NWLady]

Interesting in KK's testimony, when she said that she (acting as "Cassie Johnson") asked Kelsey for a future playdate, KB said she would have to ask her fiance. (This was in Sam's fb live video notes). How she tried building rapport using the baby and dog story.

If Krystal is being truthful about that exchange, wouldn't it have sent alarm bells off that Kelsey still thought PF was her fiance?? Didn't KK think that PF was supposed to be madly in love with KK?

Regarding the drugs, jmo, but valium and ambien are fairly easy prescriptions to obtain. I would suspect KK had her own prescriptions or family members or close friends who did. Just my experience, but I feel like those drugs are floating around many households, where there would be no need to risk pocketing them from one's tightly controlled workplace.

Opioids on the other hand are controlled much more tightly. Is that what the other narcotics were and why KK is being vague about those? Because valium and ambien even combined, in high quantities still seem unlikely to kill anyone. (Didn't Bernie and Ruth Madoff try to kill themselves by taking entire bottles of ambien only to wake up the next morning?)

So if this was really a practical murder strategy, I find it hard to believe that an ambien and valium cocktail were gonna succeed. Combined with a narcotic - maybe. But I don't believe, nor have we heard any evidence, that KK stole those meds from her hospital and imo there were less risky ways to obtain widely available prescription drugs like ambien and valium.

And yeah, not only is it creepy that a stranger would show up at her door with Starbucks, but just happens to know how she likes here coffee?? KK said that she asked KB if she wanted to go for coffee in the future and KB said no! I wonder if there are any texts from KB to PF telling her about the weirdo at her front door.

In my experience in the medical field as an RN for the past 30 years, Valium used to be more readily prescribed than it is now (at least from what I've seen, so that's JMO). On the other hand, Ambien does seem to be prescribed fairly regular any more. I do feel that with enough Valium and Ambien, that someone could definitely overdose on it with possibility of death, but not in just single dosages IMO. However, there are so many differences in how 1 person may react to a particular drug versus somebody else so that is something that would be difficult to predict as so many things would come in to play in regards to that.

This is all JMO.

 

[GoJacks]

At least that might get her out of the lobby and potentially getting into scuffles with Witnesses or staring them down and intimidating local witnesses and/or family members as they walk in?

@GoJacks, is SF still sitting in the court lobby every day or was that just the first few days?

ETA and that also would put her in jail during the defense so that she would not know what is going on and wouldn't even be available in the outside world to hear the verdict. Aww, perhaps they'll put her in a Cell right next to him in the jail. Pffft.

MOO

Has SF been doing any of those things I bolded? If so, I'd love to know how she reacted when SF2 left after his testimony! I don't think that mother and SF2 will be on each other's Christmas card list this year.

Not that I've seen. She kind of just sits there and mean mugs. Or maybe that's just her face.

She's been there every day I was there. Assume she's showing up every day.

I can't answer about SF2, I wasn't there that day. I'd be interested to know as well.

 

[Lhughessk]

I don't know. The judge could delay trial. But certainly that would be bad optics for PF, if his Momma SF is refusing to testify.

Oh, no doubt the optics would be bad. But let’s face it, the optics really can’t get any worse for him than they already are. It’s not like a single one of those jurors is going to be sitting there thinking, G I’m really on the fence about whether this guy did this. If only I could hear from his mother. ..

 

[osu]

Sam Kraemer will be doing a FB live tonight at 8:30 MT, 9:30 CT, 10:30 EST.

Sam Kraemer TV

 

[papixee]

KK facilitated the murder of Kelsey and it is enraging to some of the posters on here, me included, that she is basically walking away and most likely won't spend a night in jail yet alone do any time prison.

I can understand that. It certainly doesn't make me happy that she's getting a slap on the wrist. BUT, it's impossible to see the details that have been released so far and come to any other conclusion other than PF is a murderer. Nobody else, not KL, not a hit man, not a third party committed this crime.

 

[scdiv]

In my experience in the medical field as an RN for the past 30 years, Valium used to be more readily prescribed than it is now (at least from what I've seen, so that's JMO). On the other hand, Ambien does seem to be prescribed fairly regular any more. I do feel that with enough Valium and Ambien, that someone could definitely overdose on it with possibility of death, but not in just single dosages IMO. However, there are so many differences in how 1 person may react to a particular drug versus somebody else so that is something that would be difficult to predict as so many things would come in to play in regards to that.

This is all JMO.

Valium was in my head as I recently had a series of (ugh) dental work done and the dentist, endo, and oral surgeon all gave me a bunch of valium prescriptions to take before the procedures and more to help me sleep the night before - but they gave me much more than just for a day or two. I don't like taking any meds period (I'm terrified of not being with it or knowing what I'm doing) and the valium didn't even work that much for me so I didn't even get them filled after the first one, but I could have had a nice little stockpile just from legitimate prescriptions. I suppose any kind of mixing of benzos, etc is a danger and has risks. It just seems if someone were truly trying to kill a person, those would be unlikely ones to ensure a death.

 

[MyBelle]

Stiegerwald had Kenney admit she lied to the FBI the first time and noted again that she claimed she wanted to be caught. She testified that when agents came to her house, she said she would cooperate but said she did not tell them about any of the clues.

He again noted that the first time she talked to law enforcement was after she received the plea agreement and a letter and bullet points outlining what she needed to talk about, which she confirmed.

Frazee trial: Defense asks why Kenney didn't alert authorities

That's right. KK--if she truly feared PF--would have told the FBI about her "clues" yet she didn't.

I choose to believe reporters who I know were in the courtroom and heard EXACTLY what KK said. The jury also heard it. What the defense very successfully pointed out to the jury is that KK is lying when she claims she acted out of fear.

JMO

 

[zea mays]

I work at a surgical hospital and we give either 5 or 10mg of Valium orally preop frequently. That being said we have cameras everywhere!! Literally everywhere! And they are counted and dispensed by a machine under the patients name so it would be very difficult to steal enough to do anything with it.

You would certainly know better than I! My experiences are just personal experiences, not professional, about pre-op. But, I completely agree about the difficulty.

 

[MassGuy]

That's right. KK--if she truly feared PF--would have told the FBI about her "clues" yet she didn't.

I choose to believe reporters who I know were in the courtroom and heard EXACTLY what KK said. The jury also heard it. What the defense very successfully pointed out to the jury is that KK is lying when she claims she acted out of fear.

JMO

What they unsuccessfully tried to point out, is that KK was lying about ANYTHING material to the case.

It’s been non stop corroboration thus far, which is all that matters.

 

[MyBelle]

How about the tooth?

The tooth and the discolored hay bale are critical pieces of evidence. I hope DNA testing was done on both and was successful.

JMO

 

[Ksprincess2]

You would certainly know better than I! My experiences are just personal experiences, not professional, about pre-op. But, I completely agree about the difficulty.

Also I'm sure everywhere does things differently too in terms of what meds they give and how.

 

[osu]

Yes, but according to a nurse I know, there would be even less opportunity for her to steal drugs - and the nurse I know has never heard of ambien for pre-op. When I've been given a 'calm down' dose pre-op, it has always been through an IV.

If she's on the floor, she can keep a drug she's supposed to administer orally to a patient and when the patient complains about pain or lack of sleep, the assumption will be that the dosage was insufficient. If she withholds the relatively minor pre-op dose meant to calm someone and that someone starts freaking out going into the OR and it happens more than once, it's more likely to be noticed than with patients on the floor who are being treated by different nurses over multiple shifts.

I think KK knew it wouldn't work anyway but just went along with PF because it was easier than telling him that as a nurse she really didn't have easy access to fatal doses of potentially lethal drugs and that even if she did, it wasn't going to be that easy to administer them via a cup of coffee, where the taste might be a tip-off and it would be a challenge to maintain equal distribution of the drug throughout the drink.

Besides, in this instance, I think she wanted an excuse to see KB for herself, up close and personal.

Keep in mind, PF also told KK, a nurse, that a single blow to the back of the head would be sufficient to kill KB with a minimum of blood. You don't have to be a nurse to know that 1) skulls can be hard to crack and 2) scalp wounds, even relatively minor ones, are notoriously messy - as he apparently found out. Yet there's no evidence that KK tried to explain to PF that he was wrong on these points, and as a nurse, she certainly must have known better.

Thank you for great explanation. You’re right, any drugs before surgery would be administered through an IV.

And regarding KK wanting to get a look at Kelsey, I totally agree. Didn’t KK say something like she took Kelsey the coffee because she wanted to “measure her up”? I’d have to go back and find that exact quote but I remember reading it in an article or maybe it was mentioned in one of the reporters live videos.

JMO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

The tooth and the discolored hay bale are critical pieces of evidence. I hope DNA testing was done on both and was successful.

JMO

I'm optimistic the X-ray will match her dental records. DNA would be the cherry on top.

 

[Safeguard]

To be fair, she has been a member here for a few years. I just think her opinion is differing from the evidence provided so far and is impatient for the proof that she demands right now.

Spoken like a Lady!
I wouldn't have been so kind, as I see a troubling pattern on other threads.

I abhor 'group think' and very much value opposing opinions, but getting the facts straight, and not derailing threads with outlandish supposition is important too. Not to mention I frown upon 'reporting' others unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Artis]

I would caution against trying to overpower evil. It's a common misperception that love is stronger than hate. A lot of dead women have thought they could "love" the evil out of some abusive fk.

As we see in this case, "kindness" was up against evil and kindness lost.

Imo the only way to combat evil is to show no mercy. Kindness=weakness to psychopaths. No one should have ever spent a second catering to pf. He's not a man with "Wounded Child" issues he's a monster.

So glad you wrote that because I, too, zeroed in on that. I didn't comment as I wasn't sure how it meant but since you addressed it, I will, as well.

Couldn't agree more. We impact the world with right thoughts and actions in our lives ("Go and sin no more") but that doesn't mean we shouldn't avoid trouble or think we can change evil. If we are presented with a random situation where we can directly stop it, we must, but nobody can "change" Satanic (figure of speech). If we think of the reality of this realm as being weighed by scales, we want to add to the "good" side by being good and surrounding ourselves with like minded people. We can't do anything about the individuals weighing down the other side of the scale. That's their problem/decision/path/karma/whatever. Love changes us, not them. If we get tangled up in their s**t, we can be tainted, damaged or annihilated by it.

My sig refers to two European girls who thought being nice was enough and that all people are basically the same . They went camping in Morocco where they both got their throats cut, with one nearly decapitated. The world is a dangerous place with a lot of bad people and nothing is going to change that.

 

[Artis]

On top of the page to right side - you will see your user name - Inbox - Alerts

Click on your user name - and you'll be at Your Account. In the middle of the page - the first item - you will see Avatar & says click on the image to change your avatar - click on the box - and upload a picture.

And when that doesn't work because it says the file is too big/too many pixels, you can go here and edit it:

LunaPic.com Photo Editor tool

 

[Safeguard]

Yeah especially after her testifying she actually babysat Baby K, saw no signs of abuse, but still helped. One has to ask themselves why would she be the clean up person if not up to her eyeballs? She could have called the police,FBI right then. But no. LE called her out. What did she do volunteer infor to help Kelsey do the right thing. NOPE. She lawyered up to save her own butt.
MOO

Right? My God. How could she look at that precious little girl's face and go :
"Im gonna help kill your mommy!" and then I'll clean up her blood, throw away your bloody toys, buy you and daddy some food, then watch him burn mommy's body so we can all live happily ever after. wtf.

 

[Artis]

I don't know if anyone has posted the conditions of the plea deal since the last thread but here are the ones Sam could remember from his FB live:

- KK was solicited by PF

- She came to Colorado with the coffee for Berreth.

- KK did not follow through with her plans.

- Kelsey was killed on the 22nd.

- KK did not know the murder was going to happen.

- She helped Frazee cover up the crime.

(Maybe we can figure out the last one ourselves.)

Imo

#5 really bothers me:

KK did not know the murder was going to happen

Bulls**t, she didn't. She just didn't know when. She knew enough to know what the "mess" to clean up was and came prepared with the proper supplies..

 

[Lhughessk]

I'm optimistic the X-ray will match her dental records. DNA would be the cherry on top.

How can they take one sliver of a tooth and match it up to someone’s dental records? I thought that their best case scenario would be DNA.