CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[Bill Carson]

When asked what caused him to attack his wife, Austin told detectives, "She started hassling me and arguing and that. I just turned on her." When asked his reasons for murdering his children, he stated, "It sort of came to me that I had killed her so I went upstairs and killed my children."​

I could sort of see that in this case, but CW's actions afterward don't make much sense.

BBM.

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems--the reason for killing the children after killing the mother.

This is a variation of one of my early theories: that a child walked in during the fight between CW and SW and after SW was dead he needed to eliminate the witness.

But the Austin reasoning is sort of more compassionate, in a twisted way. He's killed the mother whom they adore. He's surely going to prison. What an awful legacy he has left them. Why not put them out of that misery?

It's sick and it's awful and it deserves the death penalty, but I can see how he might think this way.

 

[PommyMommy]

When asked what caused him to attack his wife, Austin told detectives, "She started hassling me and arguing and that. I just turned on her." When asked his reasons for murdering his children, he stated, "It sort of came to me that I had killed her so I went upstairs and killed my children."​

I could sort of see that in this case, but CW's actions afterward don't make much sense.

BBM Yes, this stood out to me, although I tend to believe that CW killed the girls before Shanann. At least he let Dieter live. Austin killed both the family poodles.

 

[Bill Carson]

Why not put them out of that misery?

But on the other hand, why didn't he kill himself afterward?

 

[PommyMommy]

But on the other hand, why didn't he kill himself afterward?

If you're asking about Austin, I believe he tried.
If you mean CW, he had to go to work. You know, so all appeared normal.

 

[The Saint]

SBM.

That danger had not occurred to me; thanks for the warning. Glad I didn't join those groups.

I have seen screen grabs of what was posted there but I just didn't want to
go in there.

 

[Charlot123]

BBM.

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems--the reason for killing the children after killing the mother.

This is a variation of one of my early theories: that a child walked in during the fight between CW and SW and after SW was dead he needed to eliminate the witness.

But the Austin reasoning is sort of more compassionate, in a twisted way. He's killed the mother whom they adore. He's surely going to prison. What an awful legacy he has left them. Why not put them out of that misery?

It's sick and it's awful and it deserves the death penalty, but I can see how he might think this way.

Sometimes seriously depressed people have this twisted way of thinking. Only CW does not look gravely depressed - at least high libido and multiple partners indirectly indicate that he was not.

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

But on the other hand, why didn't he kill himself afterward?

1. AP co-worker. A brand new life.
2. He didn’t think he’d get caught because he didn’t imagine NUA showing up so soon and calling 911. He figured he had 48 Hours.
After all, he grew up, as did I, in the land of Jeffrey MacDonald, the Dungeons and Dragons murder, William Bradford, Susie and Fritz... there’s not much east of Raleigh, so those made headlines everywhere in N.C. and people still talk about them.
3. 15 minutes + in spotlight. Poor CW from the masses. Lots of sympathy from many people in our “culture” of celebrity.
4. #3 means more Girlfriends.
5. I believe that gas can in the truck was to set the tanks a blaze. Most trucks like that have a 26 gallon tank minimum.

All my opinions.

 

[The Saint]

But on the other hand, why didn't he kill himself afterward?

Are you talking about Chris? Shanann was to blame. She made him do it --- as a narcissist, that's how it works.

 

[MassGuy]

I lived through the OJ stuff ---my sister knew someone who saw OJ in the bushes spying on Nicole in her condo. I have friends who live nearby.

If you have seen the crime scene photos of the butchered bodies of Nicole and Ron, you know that it was rage coupled w/ the crystal meth that OJ bought earlier.

NO. I am not going to provide a link, WS sleuths.
Google: Crystal Meth--OJ simpson--- Jack-in-the Box on Santa Monica Blvd, Brentwood (maybe West LA) and Kato Kaelin.

It is entirely possible that CW was under the influence of alcohol or drugs when he strangled his little girls and his pregnant wife.

OJ didn’t even need drugs to do what he did, because of his rage, that had previously been on display. I’m not discounting the Meth, just saying that I could see him doing what he did regardless. And yes, those crime scene photos are horrific.

 

[The Saint]

Love it! I'd probably have a field day with this book, might be best if I didn't read it.

You'll probably have at least 4 or 5 syndromes like the rest of us. Just don't kill anybody. I don't want to have to defend BingoBongo on crime forums.

 

[The Saint]

OJ didn’t even need drugs to do what he did, because of his rage, that had previously been on display. I’m not discounting the Meth, just saying that I could see him doing what he did regardless. And yes, those crime scene photos are horrific.

A warning to people --- if you haven't seen the full crime scene photos, don't look at them. They are haunting.

 

[ACE422]

New to WS! Trying to make sense of this tragedy. I have lots of thoughts, but wanted to touch on some things I haven't seen running through the thread merely for speculation purposes.

IMO, this was not planned. There were too many loose ends. The burial site seemed to be a hastily, poorly chosen site if one did not want to get caught.

Both SW and CW seemed to be loving parents. Something went terribly wrong.

I am speculating on CW's claims that SW strangled the children. SW had lupus. Pregnancy can exacerbate lupus symptoms. Lupus flare ups can cause psychosis in some people. Caffeine overdose can cause psychosis. The patches worn by SW and CW contain an undisclosed amount of caffeine. One could overdose if ingesting caffeine in pills or drinks, especially while wearing a transdermal patch delivering the substance. The patches contain Garcinia cambogia: there have been case reports of psychotic symptoms with its use. IF SW was taking any medications, they could interact with many substances. Each body responds differently to different substances.
Sleep deprivation and/or stress can also cause psychosis.

(Links for the above information).
Caffeine Toxicity: Practice Essentials, Background, Pathophysiology

High caffeine use linked to psychotic symptoms - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Severe Sleep Deprivation Causes Hallucinations and a Gradual Progression Toward Psychosis With Increasing Time Awake


Mania Induced by Garcinia cambogia: A Case Series


SW was pregnant, had Lupus and was traveling a lot recently. We know of relationship and financial problems that may have caused her much stress. There is likely much more we do not know about her stress levels. We know she claimed to be able to run on small amounts of sleep and that she was awake into wee hours of the morning when she returned from her latest trip- a trip which was likely packed full of all kinds of activities. Her friend reported SW wasn't feeling well on the trip. A tired, stressed out, sleep deprived pregnant mom who is dealing with Lupus and is expected to appear "energized" all the time ultizes substances to help achieve and maintain this energy. Could she have "snapped" with all of these factors coming into play?

I knew a woman who drowned her 3 kids during a psychotic break. You would have never known she was capable of this. She was not herself and suddenly lost touch with all reality, committing this heinous act.

Again, I am purely speculating to see if CW's claims to would be in the realm of possibility.

CW's behavior was certainly disturbing. Buried the bodies in a familiar, close place directly linked to him. He left evidence all over. Went to work like normal. Flat affect during interviews ... he seemed so far removed from reality. Could he have dissociated from these events du to trauma? This could be true whether he killed his entire family or whether his claim was true. It would help explain his disturbing behavior.

"Derealization comprises a state in which the world and the environment “feel” unreal to the individual residing in this state. Both depersonalization and derealization are aspects of dissociation represented by subjective states that usually result from trauma. "

Dissociative Rage
"Moscowitz describes “dissociative rage” in which an individual usually characterized as mild, quiet and overcontrolled, and acts impulsively with high levels of violence."
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/73c8/faf5e2f050ed9ffd9e620dca762174c60698.pdf

Dissociation and Psychosis
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...opathology/201511/dissociation-and-psychosis%

 

[NanZDrew]

As far as I understand how it works once a person has deactivated their Facebook they disappear altogether from your friends list. The only place their name and a blank icon would remain would be in private messages and iirc old comments on posts.

ETA: Actually you may be right on that. Just scrolled through my own friends list and people who have deleted their accounts are still there albeit with blank image icon. Never noticed that before. Not sure if only I can see them though or if people viewing my friends list can too...

I think you can see them, but they do not show up on your friend's list for others to see.

 

[Jennifer17]

New to WS! Trying to make sense of this tragedy. I have lots of thoughts, but wanted to touch on some things I haven't seen running through the thread merely for speculation purposes.

IMO, this was not planned. There were too many loose ends. The burial site seemed to be a hastily, poorly chosen site if one did not want to get caught.

Both SW and CW seemed to be loving parents. Something went terribly wrong.

I am speculating on CW's claims that SW strangled the children. SW had lupus. Pregnancy can exacerbate lupus symptoms. Lupus flare ups can cause psychosis in some people. Caffeine overdose can cause psychosis. The patches worn by SW and CW contain an undisclosed amount of caffeine. One could overdose if ingesting caffeine in pills or drinks, especially while wearing a transdermal patch delivering the substance. The patches contain Garcinia cambogia: there have been case reports of psychotic symptoms with its use. IF SW was taking any medications, they could interact with many substances. Each body responds differently to different substances.
Sleep deprivation and/or stress can also cause psychosis.

(Links for the above information).
Caffeine Toxicity: Practice Essentials, Background, Pathophysiology

High caffeine use linked to psychotic symptoms - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Severe Sleep Deprivation Causes Hallucinations and a Gradual Progression Toward Psychosis With Increasing Time Awake


Mania Induced by Garcinia cambogia: A Case Series


SW was pregnant, had Lupus and was traveling a lot recently. We know of relationship and financial problems that may have caused her much stress. There is likely much more we do not know about her stress levels. We know she claimed to be able to run on small amounts of sleep and that she was awake into wee hours of the morning when she returned from her latest trip- a trip which was likely packed full of all kinds of activities. Her friend reported SW wasn't feeling well on the trip. A tired, stressed out, sleep deprived pregnant mom who is dealing with Lupus and is expected to appear "energized" all the time ultizes substances to help achieve and maintain this energy. Could she have "snapped" with all of these factors coming into play?

I knew a woman who drowned her 3 kids during a psychotic break. You would have never known she was capable of this. She was not herself and suddenly lost touch with all reality, committing this heinous act.

Again, I am purely speculating to see if CW's claims to would be in the realm of possibility.

All of that is completely nullified by his dumping of his clean little girls in filthy crude oil.

 

[MassGuy]

New to WS! Trying to make sense of this tragedy. I have lots of thoughts, but wanted to touch on some things I haven't seen running through the thread merely for speculation purposes.

IMO, this was not planned. There were too many loose ends. The burial site seemed to be a hastily, poorly chosen site if one did not want to get caught.

Both SW and CW seemed to be loving parents. Something went terribly wrong.

I am speculating on CW's claims that SW strangled the children. SW had lupus. Pregnancy can exacerbate lupus symptoms. Lupus flare ups can cause psychosis in some people. Caffeine overdose can cause psychosis. The patches worn by SW and CW contain an undisclosed amount of caffeine. One could overdose if ingesting caffeine in pills or drinks, especially while wearing a transdermal patch delivering the substance. The patches contain Garcinia cambogia: there have been case reports of psychotic symptoms with its use. IF SW was taking any medications, they could interact with many substances. Each body responds differently to different substances.
Sleep deprivation and/or stress can also cause psychosis.

(Links for the above information).
Caffeine Toxicity: Practice Essentials, Background, Pathophysiology

High caffeine use linked to psychotic symptoms - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Severe Sleep Deprivation Causes Hallucinations and a Gradual Progression Toward Psychosis With Increasing Time Awake


Mania Induced by Garcinia cambogia: A Case Series


SW was pregnant, had Lupus and was traveling a lot recently. We know of relationship and financial problems that may have caused her much stress. There is likely much more we do not know about her stress levels. We know she claimed to be able to run on small amounts of sleep and that she was awake into wee hours of the morning when she returned from her latest trip- a trip which was likely packed full of all kinds of activities. Her friend reported SW wasn't feeling well on the trip. A tired, stressed out, sleep deprived pregnant mom who is dealing with Lupus and is expected to appear "energized" all the time ultizes substances to help achieve and maintain this energy. Could she have "snapped" with all of these factors coming into play?

I knew a woman who drowned her 3 kids during a psychotic break. You would have never known she was capable of this. She was not herself and suddenly lost touch with all reality, committing this heinous act.

Again, I am purely speculating to see if CW's claims to would be in the realm of possibility.

Any chance of Shanann doing this, goes completely out the window because of CW’s post offense actions. The lies, coverup, and horrific body disposal paint a damning picture that cannot be ignored or rationalized IMO.

 

[NanZDrew]

He already admitted putting the kids in the tank and burying SW nearby... why does she keep going on and on about there may be actual video of it? She gets sidetracked fairly easy.

I'm thinking that she may be talking about footage of the bodies being put in tanks at the jobsite. Theft is a huge problem and many of the sites have cameras. Even though this was a remote location it may have been a battery operated camera that stored the images on a SD card. Of course, he might have deactivated the camera.

 

[The Saint]

This analysis was just by his porch interviews. It's difficult to compile all the different sources in one area, then timeline then, analyze them and then finally compile an assessment. Maybe not necessarily difficult but definitely time consuming.

With all due respect, you have based your assessment solely on Chris’ porch interviews after the murders?

Yes, there are a multitude of videos of Chris and his behavior due to Shanann’s constant, almost daily recordings. I haven’t seen all of the videos myself. There are tons of them.

But come on, they are organized in chronological order from
2 main sources - SW’s FB and Instagram.

 

[Bill Carson]

A warning to people --- if you haven't seen the full crime scene photos, don't look at them. They are haunting.

Tempted as always, but not before bed.

 

[NanZDrew]

I don't think that he would have shown her. He is a coward.

I tend to agree with Jennifer on this. He would probably have loved to torture Shanann like this, but the risk of her screaming and fighting him...generally making alot of noise and waking neighbors...would have been a risk. I tend to think he caught Shanann by surprise, used that lateral side choke hold, or strangled her while she was asleep. He didn't want to risk getting caught. He thought he had the committed the perfect crime...and having a bloodless crime scene was pretty smart.

 

[Charlot123]

In favor of the Prosecution:
-Shannan made no posts on her trip because she found out the man she adored, who was the father of her children was fooling around and wanted a separation and she didn't have the energy to post on SM like she usually did on her trips away.
-Shannan was not feeling well because her world was turned upside down. She's pregnant (a decision we *think* they made together) has two small girls, she has Lupus and now her husband wants a separation? WHILE SHE's PREGNANT? How cruel.
-Are there any cases we know of where pregnant women have murdered their living children because they "snapped"?

This is just my opinion.

Mothers in postpartum depression can harm children, although they are more likely to harm themselves. Not necessarily postpartim. Deborah Green is a good example that a mom can always "snap" Debora Green - Wikipedia

However, show me a dad who, having watched his wife kill their children, kills her, then, in haste, hides the three bodies, and then pretends that nothing happened and gives an interview...