CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

[evilgenuis1]

This. CW's goose is so well cooked its burned.

I tend to agree, but then I remember Casey Anthony and OJ!

 

[PommyMommy]

I'm going to invite the other lawyers or people with knowledge of the criminal law to correct me if I am wrong, but...

If I understand the criminal law correctly, and assuming that the state does not seek the death penalty, I think that a conviction of these pending charges would carry an automatic sentence of life without the possibility of parole. That means there would be no punishment phase of this trial. No friends to take the stand to testify about what an upstanding guy CW is; no experts talking about recidivism; none of that.

Now, I suppose the defense attorneys will probably try to make the case any way they can that CW didn't have the mental capacity to act intentionally, and if the are successful, maybe the charge is lowered to a Murder 2 charge or something like that, but I think (IMO) that approach is very unlikely to succeed.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you may have misunderstood the intent of my post. I was replying to the poster who said, "Killing your wife, (and probably daughters/unborn son) and placing your children in oil tanks suggest extreme emotional disturbance to me."

That post followed the opinion of our verified expert, Mindhunter, who reviewed the CW porch interviews and wrote that he didn't see anything to suggest extreme emotional disturbance. In turn, I provided the OP with the link to define the defense.

 

[Shekkiec]

New court filing: the defense is accusing the prosecution or someone in their office of making prejudicial statements; not sure which statement(s) because it looks like the motion was filed under seal. Below is the Court’s Order allowing the State to provide a response by 9/5/18. The response, if any, is not available online.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...trict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Watts-C-2.pdf

Quite a great find !

 

[SweetPeas56]

New court filing: the defense is accusing the prosecution or someone in their office of making prejudicial statements; not sure which statement(s) because it looks like the motion was filed under seal. Below is the Court’s Order allowing the State to provide a response by 9/5/18. The response, if any, is not available online.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...trict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Watts-C-2.pdf

I wish I knew what they were referring to. Which bit of info that we've heard? Any guesses? Curiosity burning.

Also, does it mean the defense is worried? On top of things? Grasping at straws? Covering all bases? I'm not familiar with these.

 

[Colorado303]

Anything is possible, but the autopsy would find water in their lungs instead of oil, regardless of what his thinking was.

I still think that he either smothered or strangled the kids. Smothering them with a pillow would potentially explain the pillowcases in the trash.

Much as I hate to think the girls could see him, I think he strangled them because if he smothered them he would have said he saw SW smothering them, not strangle them.

 

[Bill Carson]

Do you mean like being on the autism spectrum?

I have a pretty good understanding about autism, and he does not exhibit enough symptoms to make me suspect he is on the spectrum: at least not diagnosable.

But the way he presents is similar, IMO, to the way that social awkwardness can present itself in autism, yes.

WRT the lack of social intelligence, remember that SW herself described CW as not having any "game," and said she had to make all of the moves when they were dating. Also, the Thrive gave him the ability to "talk to strangers" (her words, I believe), which is the way that stimulants may affect a person with ADHD.

 

[Shekkiec]

The only article I could find was from a source at the Weld County Jail so not sure that was what the defense was referring to in this court filing.
Chris Watts Is Under Suicide Watch in Jail: Sources

This may be it
'Absolutely No Evidence' Shan'ann Watts Killed Her Daughters: Police Source

 

[tjredline]

So according to this timeline, it sounds like CW deleted his FB account while he was in NC with SW & her family.
I wonder if she was either suspicious & wanted to see it, or if he didn’t want someone seeing him tagged in any photos while there...

What if SW was thinking about staying in NC and it was mentioned that he needed to delete facebook and stop the affair in order for her to bring the kids home. Once they get home, then he realizes he really didn't want it or maybe somehow he just realizes how awesome it was being single for those weeks. The AP could have done something as well to make him snap and he got rid of his family. I don't know if we really will ever know, even when it goes to court.

 

[Bill Carson]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you may have misunderstood the intent of my post. I was replying to the poster who said, "Killing your wife, (and probably daughters/unborn son) and placing your children in oil tanks suggest extreme emotional disturbance to me."

That post followed the opinion of our verified expert, Mindhunter, who reviewed the CW porch interviews and wrote that he didn't see anything to suggest extreme emotional disturbance. In turn, I provided the OP with the link to define the defense.

Thank you for the clarification. I didn't mean to veer off course with my reply to your post.

 

[nwmouse]

I have a pretty good understanding about autism, and he does not exhibit enough symptoms to make me suspect he is on the spectrum: at least not diagnosable.

But the way he presents is similar, IMO, to the way that social awkwardness can present itself in autism, yes.

WRT the lack of social intelligence, remember that SW herself described CW as not having any "game," and said she had to make all of the moves when they were dating. Also, the Thrive gave him the ability to "talk to strangers" (her words, I believe), which is the way that stimulants may affect a person with ADHD.

Thanks for explaining. If its possible that the Thrive patch had enough stimulants to affect someone with ADHD it might be a line the defense will go and claim that "Thrive made him do it". Adding a MOO.

 

[gitana1]

Anything. I remember you're good at finding items of substance so figured if you came across anything not already available, maybe you would post it?

Someone already posted it. It doesn't say much except to reference important rules of professional conduct sections. Just the fact that it exists is interesting and telling to me though:

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...trict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Watts-C-2.pdf

Here's the rules it references:

The Colorado Bar > For Members > Opinions Rules Statutes > Rules of Professional Conduct > Rule 3.6 Trial Publicity

The Colorado Bar > For Members > Opinions Rules Statutes > Rules of Professional Conduct > Rule 3.8 Special Responsibilities of a Prosecutor

 

[Layla123]

Why do you think that is the approach of the PD at all?

I've said this before, and I'll elaborate: CW's "confession" will allow his PDs to sleep at night.

A criminal defense attorney's job is to zealously defend the client and to make sure the client's constitutional rights are not infringed.

IF a criminal defense attorney thinks the client is actually innocent, then defense attorney has the weight of the world on his/her shoulders. In a (potential) death penalty hey believe that the fate of the client's life is in their hands. That is a huge burden to bear. If defendant is found guilty, then the attorney will feel a residual sense of guilt and wonder what they could have done differently to vindicate the client.

If on the other hand the defense attorney knows the client is factually guilty, then that takes a lot of the burden away: they still have the job of zealously defending the client and they will seek to obtain a Not Guilty verdict if possible; they need to protect the client's rights and test the State's case by putting them to trial (if a plea deal cannot be worked out). But at the end of the day, if they've worked hard and done their job right, then there are no regrets when the client is found guilty.

The former scenario is why I gave up practicing criminal defense a long time ago. Too much stress. And it is especially demoralizing when your client tells you they are innocent and you believe them; you work your butt off, but despite your valiant efforts the client is found guilty and sentenced to prison, and THEN you find out your client was lying to you all along--playing you for a sucker just like everyone else in their life. You feel used, and that's not a good feeling.

Now, the defense attorneys you usually see on these high profile cases are a little bit different, in that they are highly compensated, hired guns, and they are jaded enough that it might not bother them what happens to the client at the end of the day. They just want to win: it's about being competitive and drawing a crowd.

What happens if the defense attorney discovers that it’s impossible to determine that a child’s skin has turned blue on type of baby monitor the defendant has?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Much as I hate to think the girls could see him, I think he strangled them because if he smothered them he would have said he saw SW smothering them, not strangle them.

As awful as this sounds, I wonder if CW played a game with the girls on Aug 9th when the doll got covered in the plastic shroud and SW posted on Aug 9th.
Is it possible that CW did the same scenario with the girls when he murdered them and covered them in a plastic shroud?
He could have said to the little ones that they were playing the same game that he played with the doll and the girls wouldn't fight him because they thought it was a game.
I think that whatever CW did to the little ones, he didn't want to see their faces as it was happening or afterwards.
Also, CW using a plastic shroud during the crimes would prevent his dna transfer onto the little girls.
Very sorry for the graphic content but I thought it was a possibility that needed to be considered.

 

[Shekkiec]

Well they allege the prosecution leaked information; whether they did remains to be seen.

Someone already posted it. It doesn't say much except to reference important rules of professional conduct sections. Just the fact that it exists is interesting and telling to me though:

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...trict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Watts-C-2.pdf

Here's the rules it references:

The Colorado Bar > For Members > Opinions Rules Statutes > Rules of Professional Conduct > Rule 3.6 Trial Publicity

The Colorado Bar > For Members > Opinions Rules Statutes > Rules of Professional Conduct > Rule 3.8 Special Responsibilities of a Prosecutor

would this fall into those guidelines
'Absolutely No Evidence' Shan'ann Watts Killed Her Daughters: Police Source

 

[BeckyF]

So if you’re CW, and the why was financial, sexual, freedom, other drama/issues-related, how are you feeling now? Mad or surprised to be in jail obviously and staring down life or the DP, but hey my family is gone, and so I feel relieved in some warped way? Or are all of the reasons you did this now completely pointless, so you’re contemplating killing yourself at some point? Or are you too much of a coward for that? Or are you taking things day by day? If he can manage to kill himself before a plea deal or trial, maybe in his mind he’s not guilty—at least not found guilty. Who knows what goes through these people’s minds.

I've been contemplating myself what his current mindset is. Personally I think he'd just as soon kill himself.

 

[MassGuy]

Much as I hate to think the girls could see him, I think he strangled them because if he smothered them he would have said he saw SW smothering them, not strangle them.

Yeah. I was leaning towards smothering because of the pillowcases in the trash, but I have since reconsidered. I think you’re spot on.

 

[MassGuy]

I have a pretty good understanding about autism, and he does not exhibit enough symptoms to make me suspect he is on the spectrum: at least not diagnosable.

But the way he presents is similar, IMO, to the way that social awkwardness can present itself in autism, yes.

WRT the lack of social intelligence, remember that SW herself described CW as not having any "game," and said she had to make all of the moves when they were dating. Also, the Thrive gave him the ability to "talk to strangers" (her words, I believe), which is the way that stimulants may affect a person with ADHD.

I don’t think it was thrive that changed his ability to interact with strangers, rather, I think it was the newfound confidence that he had after getting in shape.

 

[skyedaze]

As awful as this sounds, I wonder if CW played a game with the girls on Aug 9th when the doll got covered in the plastic shroud and SW posted on Aug 9th.
Is it possible that CW did the same scenario with the girls when he murdered them and covered them in a plastic shroud?
He could have said to the little ones that they were playing the same game that he played with the doll and the girls wouldn't fight him because they thought it was a game.
I think that whatever CW did to the little ones, he didn't want to see their faces as it was happening or afterwards.
Also, CW using a plastic shroud during the crimes would prevent his dna transfer onto the little girls.
Very sorry for the graphic content but I thought it was a possibility that needed to be considered.

THIS!
Exactly

 

[Bill Carson]

What happens if the defense attorney discovers that it’s impossible to determine that a child’s skin has turned blue on type of baby monitor the defendant has?

Well........ I'm just thinking out loud. The interrogation was surely recorded, so it depends what that says---I would start there. I suppose you could claim that the confession was not voluntary or that he was under stress or emotional distress and try to get the "confession" part thrown out entirely. Or maybe the details of his confession were misconstrued by LE. I certainly would expect that when he was being interviewed by police, that he hadn't slept much in more than 72 hours and he was in shock. I wouldn't expect him to make much sense or be able to keep the police from putting words in his mouth.

What do you think? If you were the defense attorney, how would you address that? What holes do you think you might be able to poke in that part of the story?

 

[Shekkiec]

I don’t think it was thrive that changed his ability to interact with strangers, rather, I think it was the newfound confidence that he had after getting in shape.

Or it was a sales pitch