Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #19

[PommyMommy]

That is awesome!! Can you add a couple columns? Disposal of bodies. Whether they concealed or confessed and out come of charges?

Yes, I will. I also have a column for prior criminal history, but haven't completed it.

 

[MassGuy]

I would love to have a list of family annnihilators Who did not commit suicide, to compare with this case. .

John List, and Bradford Bishop didn’t commit suicide, but they ran, which adds a different element in terms of their psychology. For this reason, I’m not sure that they’re a valid comparison.

Incidentally, they each killed their mother, their wife, and their three children. List made it 18 years before being captured. Bishop hasn’t been found.

 

[x_files]

The MacDonald Family was murdered in Fayetteville NC, where Chris Watts grew up and went to High School. I’m kind of location oriented. C.W. wasn’t around when those murders happened, but I’m sure they are legendary around Ft. Bragg and Fayetteville. I’m sure he must have heard about them.

oh wow! I bet he knew all about it!

 

[Thepoet]

I've never heard that one can demand the other leave their own house prior to filing for divorce. I know couples who separate but they continue living together because of the costs of two households.

I've seen it both ways. Depends on circumstances, duress, and grievences.

 

[Thepoet]

I've never heard that one can demand the other leave their own house prior to filing for divorce. I know couples who separate but they continue living together because of the costs of two households.

DELETE. Double post.

 

[PhoneJockey]

No, it does not make sense, but CW didn't say (from what is in the affidavit) that it all took place on Bella's bed. He said he saw Bella sprawled out and "blue," and Shanann strangling Celeste, but the affidavit does not say WHERE Shanann was supposedly strangling Celeste - in Bella's bed, Bella's room, in Celeste's room, etc.

NUA stated in an ABC video that the girl's beds weren't made. The video and a transcript is here: Video: Friend of woman allegedly killed by husband on why something 'didn't seem right'

Correct. I think people are forgetting that the affidavit is a quick summary of what he said, not a copy of his word for word confession. His actual written and recorded confession will have a LOT more detail that we don't know yet, even if he didn't offer it voluntarily. The investigators would be asking him lots of questions and having him give specific details.

 

[MassGuy]

Correct. I think people are forgetting that the affidavit is a quick summary of what he said, not a copy of his word for word confession. His actual written and recorded confession will have a LOT more detail that we don't know yet, even if he didn't offer it voluntarily. The investigators would be asking him lots of questions and having him give specific details.

Absolutely. His interview is bound to be a great source of evidence during the trial. He would have told lie after lie.

 

[evilgenuis1]

I think you're spot on. Here's what I have a really hard time understanding, though. If daddyhood/drudgery issues were so getting him down (and presumably they must have been for quite some time), then why on earth add to your pressures/unhappiness/precarious financial situation by trying for a third baby? More commitment, more cost, less sleep, etc. She was only 15 weeks pregnant. Surely his resentment of his domestic life had started long before that? I just don't understand what was going on in his head.

That is the piece of the puzzle that does not fit! Why bring another child into the picture if you are already experiencing marital and financial problems? My take on the video where she let's him know she is pregnant, he is not happy about it.

 

[pocketaccent]

I've never heard that one can demand the other leave their own house prior to filing for divorce. I know couples who separate but they continue living together because of the costs of two households.

If I found out my DH was having an affair and he told me he wants a separation, I would tell him to get out of MY house (even though the house is under both our name). Then I would call @gitana1

But I don't believe CW said anything about separation that morning. Why would he, when he was going to kill them all anyway. JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I used the coordinates provided in the warrantless arrest affidavit and typed it into www.gps-coordinates.com and it comes up as Hudson, CO.

Per the warrantless arrest affidavit, when LE questioned CW on Monday when they were first looking into the "disappearance", CW was truthful about where he went at 5:27 on Monday morning. My guess is this was exactly where he was supposed to be for work that morning and he knew the GPS on his truck would back this up.

Now that I'm "getting" this (or I think I am!), JMO, this was all pre-planned, very clever and extremely diabolical. I don't think there was any emotional conversation, or argument. I think SW was attacked by him probably not long after she arrived home. The little girls may have already been killed.

I'm also thinking he planned to have SW's car, keys, purse, cellphone and the girls' medication discovered at the house by LE as this would point to an abduction.

JMO, he really made three mistakes:
1. He didn't realize the neighbor's security cam captured the front of his house and that this would prove that SW and the girls never left the house that day.
2. He misjudged his ability to put SW's body into an oil storage tank, which made him have to dig a hasty, shallow grave to try to hide her body, and he was probably freaking out because of this, and
3. He forgot about the bed sheet
Because of mistakes #2 and #3, Shanann's friend, N's "early" alarm to LE caused huge problems for CW. He wasn't able to go back and do something else with SW's body and collect the bed sheet he left behind. JMO. I also wouldn't be surprised if N also told LE that things were not what they appeared to be with him, and that she suspected he was having an affair, and this may be why LE began to look for an affair. JMO.
JMO, the pillow cases and sheet that were in the kitchen garbage would likely not have been a problem for CW, as that alone, would not point to his involvement. But the drone that flew over where CW had been Monday morning (CERVI319) detected a matching bed sheet and a clandestine grave.
Time will hopefully tell us whether the cadaver dogs played a part in LE knowing Shanann, Bella and Celeste died in the home.
JMO, I don't think this was a rage-fueled fight that resulted in murder. I think it was all planned in advance and that SW never saw what was coming until it was too late.
All JMO.

Your thorough post reminded me of something a neighbor said very early in the case: 5:27AM was an uncharacteristic early morning departure for CW. Neighbor would return home around 7AM from working out , and CW truck would still be at home.

 

[MKZoo]

John List, and Bradford Bishop didn’t commit suicide, but they ran, which adds a different element in terms of their psychology. For this reason, I’m not sure that they’re a valid comparison.

Incidentally, they each killed their mother, their wife, and their three children. List made it 18 years before being captured. Bishop hasn’t been found.

If CW and SW were truly having serious financial issues about to catch up to them, that would be similar to List. He murdered his family just as financial ruin was upon them and their public image as the perfect family was about to be shattered.

I think List said he didn’t want them to suffer through that and felt it was better that they go to heaven. He, of course, could not kill himself because he would not be able to go there with them. So his delusion was quasi religious and that he was “helping” them.

IMO, I don’t think that CW has shown a similar depth of planning or motivation. I think they just became a drag on the life he now wanted and he needed them out of the way.

 

[MassGuy]

That is the piece of the puzzle that does not fit! Why bring another child into the picture if you are already experiencing marital and financial problems? My take on the video where she let's him know she is pregnant, he is not happy about it.

@gitana1 made a good point about this earlier (I had the same thought as you), In many cases, a couple will have a baby in an attempt to fix a floundering relationship. That could have been what was going on here, financial struggles aside.

 

[MerryB]

That is the piece of the puzzle that does not fit! Why bring another child into the picture if you are already experiencing marital and financial problems? My take on the video where she let's him know she is pregnant, he is not happy about it.

He’s not! Did you see my post about the pregnancy? I don’t think we should assume he wanted this baby just because that’s what SW said. With the clues we have and a little bit of common sense, the truth is obvious IMO.

 

[MassGuy]

If CW and SW were truly having serious financial issues about to catch up to them, that would be similar to List. He murdered his family just as financial ruin was upon them and their public image as the perfect family was about to be shattered.

I think List said he didn’t want them to suffer through that and felt it was better that they go to heaven. He, of course, could not kill himself because he would not be able to go there with them. So his delusion was quasi religious and that he was “helping” them.

IMO, I don’t think that CW has shown a similar depth of planning or motivation. I think they just became a drag on the life he now wanted and he needed them out of the way.

I absolutely agree.

 

[molly1255]

Your thorough post reminded me of something a neighbor said very early in the case: 5:27AM was an uncharacteristic early morning departure for CW. Neighbor would return home around 7AM from working out , and CW truck would still be at home.

Not that I want to try to understand his sick mind, but he could have explained his earlier than normal departure on SW's late arrival home and not being able to go back to sleep, so he just decided to just get an early start that morning.

If everything else had gone his way, I think he could have gotten away with that excuse. JMO.

 

[mtnlites]

Good catch. I had my suspicions when I first read his take on CW -- don't understand the leaps he makes from adultery to multiple murder -- the former is neither neither necessary nor sufficient for the latter, and no psychologist I work with would suggest it -- among several other dubious claims.

I was actually a little offended by his word choice "vile" and the insinuation that a cheater had no moral compass-and I have never cheated on anyone.

 

[pocketaccent]

Im suspicious of the language he used, like “actively strangling”. Who says that? But I’m not sure if the confession in the affidavit is paraphrased or his actual words.

Yeah that sounds paraphrased as it’s a phrase that LE would use. If he said something like “I saw her strangling the kids,” paraphrasing it that way would be accurate. But I agree, most people wouldn’t say it like that, and if he did, it sounds completely contrived.

Interesting he didn't say 'they were both dead', eh?
I wonder it means anything in legal world.

Witnessing Shenann actively strangling her baby VS
both babies were dead when he returned to his bedroom, therefore killed her in a rage. If it does mean something, he definitely had been coached.

 

[Seattle1]

Sorry if it's already been covered, why did CW have a babysitter on Sat night? Where did he go?

I don’t believe babysitter on 8/11 was confirmed but for prior weekend. However, Chatter is CW had girls out long after their normal bedtime on Satuday. And bday party Sunday. I believe CW had girls publicly visible all weekend not by mistake.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm glad you brought up MacDonald. I've been trying to study all of these family annihilators and write a short summary for each. I know many posters don't have time to read long, drawn-out posts, so I'm trying to keep the summaries short, and boy was that ever hard with this one. The similarities are uncanny, down to his grinning for the camera.

In high school, Jeffrey MacDonald was voted both "most popular" and "most likely to succeed,” he was Senior Class President, captain of the football team and won a scholarship to Princeton. After three years at Princeton, he attended and graduated from Northwestern University Medical School, joined the Army where he held the rank of Captain and was assigned as a Group Surgeon.

In February 1970, he violently murdered his wife Colette, his five-year-old daughter, Kimberly, and two-year-old daughter, Kristen. Colette was pregnant with her third child (a son) and had been stabbed 21 times with an ice pick, 16 times with a knife, repeatedly clubbed, and both her arms were broken. Kimberly was also clubbed, and stabbed in the neck eight to ten times. Kristen was stabbed 33 times with a knife and 15 times with an ice pick.

MacDonald claimed that he was awakened by Colette and Kimberly's screams, went to their aid, and was attacked by three male intruders, and a female with long blonde hair, wearing high heeled boots and a white floppy hat partially covering her face who stood nearby with a lighted candle and chanted, "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs." In other words, “the hippies did it.”

Similar to this case, there were no prior reports of domestic violence. And, MacDonald also made media appearances; most notably on The Dick Cavett Show, where he made jokes and complained that the focus of the investigation was on him. This is a clip from the show where he is seen grinning like a Cheshire cat. Jeffrey MacDonald on Dick Cavett
View attachment 146269
Link to photo: The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: Home

Jeffrey R. MacDonald - Wikipedia

Thanks for making that so succinct. I have approximately 3 minutes for each of my "check ins" for this board.

 

[mtnlites]

YES. His demeanor that day may put him in prison for life, or on Death Row.

No way a jury will believe that he saw his wife brutally strangle his babies one night, then a day later, he is on the porch, modeling a shirt his dead wife gave him, and smiling big and making small talk. They will shiver, just like we all did.

What worries me is that there ARE people out there who totally believe his story. A walk through Facebookland is scarily eye-opening. All it takes is for one of them to find their way into the courtroom and then we have a hung jury and the family has to go through this all over again.