Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[Waterdog]

Excellent word choice.

It’s my peeve.
If he did indeed ever stonewall SW and the girls it would have been emotionally manipulative and abusive, even in the slightest of ways.

 

[katydid23]

It is a giant leap to assume what CW told his dad and when. JMO

Not a giant leap at all. Trying to imagine he told his father that story on their first visit makes no sense. Could he have told his father the babies were dead and floating in an oil vat, and then his Dad was going to keep quiet about it, while they both pretended the family was missing?

 

[roteone]

No way.

I feel like these goals were not realistic, however being such an ott goal setter goes hand and hand with thriving IMO
Edited: I did not quote properly
This was the paragraph I was referring to:
Looking at SW’s Jan 2018 vision board I was surprised to see she had listed to pay off mortgage by 12/19. Makes me think they were making extra payments on their mortgage, but not sure. She also had be debt free in 2018, pay off cars and save $50k by May 2019.

 

[PommyMommy]

It is LE who instructs the ME what to gather as evidence. For some reason, the PD believed nobody in LE instructed it even though it is critical evidence and it is possible the ME alerted the PD. There really is no excuse so the Judge was alerted to it.

You can find the motions here: Colorado Judicial Branch

 

[cailleach]

They have to have probable cause to arrest the person. But typically, I have observed the state requires more than probable cause to charge someone, even though that's all they have to prove at a preliminary hearing. I know that because we read or hear in true crime novels/programs, of conversations between the state and LE, sometimes arguments, about whether the case is "strong enough" for trial. And probable cause is not a difficult threshold, relatively speaking. It's certainly not enough to sustain a conviction. And the DA's office is a political one. They don't like to bring losers to trial. It makes them look bad and have issues with reelection.

Also, I've listed the evidence that we know of so far (it's at the beginning of the thread) and I think it goes far beyond probable cause. It's powerful circumstantial evidence. For me it would be enough if I were a juror, just with what we only know now.

The investigation continues in this case but they didn't charge him in the hopes that something more compelling would surface.

I agree it's powerful circumstantial evidence that could well convince a jury that he's guilty on all counts. While there's a presumption of innocence, in the absence of direct evidence juries can and do often convict on circumstantial evidence alone.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM

Exactly. And in reference to earlier posts by some here, I don't believe I or anyone has a closed mind for simply following the evidence. The known facts presented so far lead me to just one suspect. Nothing has yet been presented to lead me to any other suspect.

If/when new evidence comes to light, then I'll reassess, but not before. That doesn't make me closed minded, it just means I'll follow where the evidence takes me.

CW's disposal and cover up is considered evidence of guilt. There needs to be more evidence than that one fact to convict beyond all reasonable doubt, but that one fact is a very compelling one as part of a brief of evidence. It is not how a reasonable person reacts in the circumstances he has presented.

Thus, my only suspect *at this point in time* is CW.

That’s an excellent way to view it, and really well put.

Logic and reason should get us there, as opposed to fanciful theories that have no basis in fact.

 

[Harmony 2]

This post lands randomly...

From our social media rules:

Not Allowed

Social media pages that fall in the following categories are OFF LIMITS.

Family members of either a victim or a suspect
Friends of either a victim or a suspect
Most any other individual

Don't link to these pages, nor make reference to information you find on them.

Rules - Social Media - Facebook, Twitter, etc.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree it's powerful circumstantial evidence that could well convince a jury that he's guilty on all counts. While there's a presumption of innocence, in the absence of direct evidence juries can and do often convict on circumstantial evidence alone.

I think they’ll have both to work with here. But you’re right, you don’t necessarily need physical evidence.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Dominant as in domineering is not an easy life for any 'partner'..Honestly, I don't know how anyone could possibly put up with that.

I agree that being under the thumb of a domineering partner would be anything but an easy life. However dominant doesn’t equate to domineering.

Dominants are those in control, do it for the good of all and take responsibility, encourage others to try harder and can teach them to achieve more, typically have earned the trust and respect of their peers to gain recognition, will show compassion and caring and are not afraid to admit that they’re wrong.

Domineering people control others to get their own way and exert that control against other people's will, refuse to take responsibility or be held accountable and feel that admitting that they’re wrong means that they’re weak.

 

[margarita25]

I’ve been meaning to ask, with Family Annhilators (I hate typing that), has there ever been a case where the killer killed mother member of the family, say, hours later?

As I think about something happening with the girls, then him letting Shanann find them, bs killing them all consecutively around the same time...

 

[PommyMommy]

@PommyMommy I just wanted to say that I really appreciate how welcoming you are to all of us newbies❤

You're welcome. I was a newbie not too long ago! (To Websleuths, anyway.)

(Her Pommy is a lucky doggie )

 

[roteone]

Does CW have any siblings? And if so where does he fall in birth order?

That's an excellent question, I feel like we know very little about his past or family.

 

[MsBetsy]

I’m more a spreadsheet person than vision board.. but maybe that’s just a vision board for those lacking creativity!

Regardless, if those were her vision board goals, it would seem to indicate that the financial stuff was very much on her mind. For whatever that’s worth.

They definitely appeared to live way beyond their means. Jmo

 

[PommyMommy]

I feel like these goals were not realistic, however being such an ott goal setter goes hand and hand with thriving IMO
Edited: I did not quote properly
This was the paragraph I was referring to:
Looking at SW’s Jan 2018 vision board I was surprised to see she had listed to pay off mortgage by 12/19. Makes me think they were making extra payments on their mortgage, but not sure. She also had be debt free in 2018, pay off cars and save $50k by May 2019.

What was their current income?

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

It’s like when he killed SW and allegedly killed the girls he was killing off the old Chris Watts, low and behold the new Chris Watts emerges. This is seriously a sick case.

"the new Chris Watts".......good one

 

[MKZoo]

From what the locals report, the soil is so formidable that CW may have been unable to dig any deeper.

I think it’s definitely possible he didn’t anticipate how hard it might be to dig a sizable hole. Unless he regularly dug in that kind of soil, he may not have known how long it would take. Thanks and condolences to @Bill Carson for that unfortunate first hand information.

 

[katydid23]

I’ve been meaning to ask, with Family Annhilators (I hate typing that), has there ever been a case where the killer killed mother member of the family, say, hours later?

As I think about something happening with the girls, then him letting Shanann find them, bs killing them all consecutively around the same time...

YES, but I don't have names handy. There are cases where a family annihilator kills his parents, then goes to another home, often nearby, and kills his spouse/kids, or his siblings etc.

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM

Exactly. And in reference to earlier posts by some here, I don't believe I or anyone has a closed mind for simply following the evidence. The known facts presented so far lead me to just one suspect. Nothing has yet been presented to lead me to any other suspect.

If/when new evidence comes to light, then I'll reassess, but not before. That doesn't make me closed minded, it just means I'll follow where the evidence takes me.

CW's disposal and cover up is considered evidence of guilt. There needs to be more evidence than that one fact to convict beyond all reasonable doubt, but that one fact is a very compelling one as part of a brief of evidence. It is not how a reasonable person reacts in the circumstances he has presented.

Thus, my only suspect *at this point in time* is CW.

Awhile back, someone had asked to be convinced of the evidence that supports CW's story that his wife killed the two children. I haven't seen anyone do that yet, but would still be interested to hear some theories. Or read, rather.

 

[roteone]

What was their current income?

I'm not totally sure. Am I guessing I not being the realistic one?

 

[cailleach]

I think they’ll have both to work with here. But you’re right, you don’t necessarily need physical evidence.

I imagine some people will be surprised at what forensics will bring to the case. While some physical evidence lasts far longer than you might imagine, the timeline didn't end up working in CW's favor.