Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

[JEM1975]

We need Joe Kenda on this case! MOO

Yes!! Isn't he from Colorado Springs?

 

[JEM1975]

Well we're watching you!

 

[Savmom]

Honestly, I find the insinuation of SW embellishing or lying about her health and, worse, that she may have had Munchausen by Proxy because she "looked fine" and had a lot of doctor appointments disrespectful not only to her but to many of the posters. We have many people on here with chronic illnesses and sick children. Lots of us have chimed in and spoken about our experiences with doctors. We have explained that it can be difficult to get the right diagnosis, about how hard it is to get proper treatments, and of how regular doc visits are necessary. I bet, too, that many of us have been accused of making up our diagnoses because they are not physically visible.

Something seemed "off" with my son in the last 2 weeks of his life. I took him to 3 docs but no tests were performed. I was treated like a hypochondriac. My friends accused me of being overly paranoid. Then, one night he went to sleep and never woke up. A cause of death could not be determined; we will never know why he died.

Parents often have 6th sense about their children's health. I wish I had pushed harder. Bless SW for being vigilant, even if there were people who thought she went overboard.

I am sorry for your incredible loss. It's not helpful or useful but I am sending cyber hugs to you by the thousands ((hugs))

Just when I think my heart can't break any further someone on WS shares a little bit of themselves that brings me to my knees!

Situations or circumstances like this certainly helps one to realize how no matter how much we disagree here, we are all bound by tragedy.

 

[bluesneakers]

Heck. I'm just shocked that people are afraid to be perceived now as blaming a defendant who has been charged with five counts of first degree murder, who we have solid evidence is a killer and a liar.

The turnaround is shocking.

 

[mtnlites]

In my head I have played around with every conceiveable scenario. I even played around with a botched murder/suicide pact with him ultimately chickening out in the end. My final settlement on him being solely responsible did not come lightly. At this point it would take some pretty solid physical evidence (more than just her DNA on their necks) for me to buy her responsible. No scenario other than him doing it makes sense to me.

I actually don't think this is a unique case. Family anhilators have been around forever; Christian Longo also strangled his wife and kids and blamed her for the kids' death. Unfortunately, this kind of thing does happen. Doesn't make it less tragic, though.

 

[MsBetsy]

My husband worked in the oilfield for 35 years. His jobs varied from time to time, but at one time, he was a field operator -:which is the same position that CW had. As far as what happens to a decomposing body inside of an oil tank filled with crude oil, I cannot say. However, you mentioned oil field workers found dead outside of oil tanks. Death in this case was more than likely caused by some type of poisonous gas accumulation such as hydrogen sulfide gas. Oilfield workers that are working in the fields where hydrogen sulfide gas exists, usually wear a Scott's air pack. These days, I am sure there are very few deaths attributed to gas inhalation. Most oil companies have safety departments that are dedicated to educating oil field employees about known hazards. Oil companies do not want an incident of any kind to be reported to OSHA. This has nothing to do with this case really. Just addressing oil field workers that were found dead outside of an oil tank. However, one thing I have read repeatedly on these threads and also many other discussion boards, the fact that so many find it so heinous, that CW placed his children's remains inside of a tank of oil. As opposed to what? I dont really know of a better place. The children were dead, or I assume that. I haven't seen anything else that indicates otherwise. I guess because the oil fields of West Texas supported our family for many years, I dont find that offensive, say compared to burial in a shallow grave. Decomposition, regardless of where it takes place is not pretty! All of this is of course is MO.

I'm sorry, did you say you don't know of a better place than a barrel of oil to dispose of your children's bodies? Do you mean in terms of a good hiding place or do you mean sentimentally? Do you think it might have been offensive to the people who had to pull them out, and the people who likely spent hours cleaning those little bodies? Not sure what you mean by not offensive.

 

[whisperOFwings]

She's listed as a co-owner in the court docs

KEY v. DIRTY SOUTH CUSTOM | No. 5:09-CV-32-D. | 20090604805 | Leagle.com

To my knowledge she was not part owner. She was a manager/salesperson.

Hi @Trinket78 (hope your day is going well).
@Gardenista posted a court doc that states Shanann is a co-owner.
You have to scroll down to 'count four' and it lists her as co-owner.
Trying to be helpful here because I almost didn't see it either.
Edit...(((sigh))) 'Was', not 'is' a co-owner.

 

[castilloisno1]

IMO,this case has been really strange. I def believe that Chris W. is responsible for this whole mess. I reserve any judgement on Shannon W. I think I am going to lurk for this case until I see more evidence presented. I am tired of reading pages and pages of rumors. I respect everyone's opinions and theories.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

I’ve been busy at work and have fallen way behind on here - was intending to catch up before posting, but that just doesn’t seem possible...

This is an exceptionally complicated case. I have never had any kind of personal experience with a case involving multiple murders where a defendant admits to killing one victim - and claims the victim killed the others. Add the dearth of known facts and the prevalence of social media - and I can totally understand why this case discussion is getting so heated. However, we are all here for the same reason - we want to know what happened. Maybe we will find out - and in that case, some will be right and some will be wrong. Or maybe we won’t ever know what really took place that night. I hope that’s not the case, but it’s possible.

I was asked for my thoughts on whether - based solely on the current known facts - I thought C.W. would be convicted for his daughters’ deaths. I hedged that answer a little bit - in part because when it comes to legal matters, it really *does* always depend...two situations are never the same. Change the facts slightly and you may get a different result. I also wanted to wait until I could give a slightly more detailed answer - so here it is. It’s not “pro-“ or “anti-“ either SW or CW - and it steers clear of pretty much any Monday morning quarterbacking if either of their parenting skills or decisions, documented forever thanks to social media.

Anyway - we have the initial charges brought by the prosecution. They want to cover their bases - so they might as well start with the most difficult to prove (first degree murder). If they can’t prove a required element, they can always go for a lesser included offense. Yes, they have to have some basis for the charges - but the fact that charges were brought does not mean that CW is guilty. Far from it. They will have to present additional evidence later on, to see if there’s enough to go to trial... and even *then*, it doesn’t mean he’s guilty - that’s where the trial comes in.

The affidavit lays out the basic evidence relied upon to support his arrest. It does not cover everything - a lot of details are missing, and IMO those details are pretty critical to the potential outcome of this case. We just don’t know what those are, right now. Then we likely have additional evidence gathered by LE - electronic, GPS, postmortems, forensics.

The trial. As you’ve seen on this site, the same exact facts can be viewed very differently by different people. Some people watch a video and reach one conclusion while others reach the opposite conclusions. It’s amazing, actually. Jurors are going to be the exact same way. Each juror will agree to take the evidence and apply it to the legal framework, as instructed, in reaching the verdict. But people are complicated, and reasonable minds may differ (wildly). Jury selection is probably my favorite part of the trial - and one of the most important parts, too. Each potential juror arrives with a wealth of background experience and knowledge that most definitely impacts their view of the case. I spend a LOT of time on jury selection. I take extensive notes... read facial expressions and body language... attempt to ask questions in *just* the right way, in order to reveal possible hidden biases - or allegiances (that otherwise may be denied, if asked directly). I want jurors who are open minded and reasonable - who will listen to the facts and the law and make their decision within that framework. Jurors who take their role seriously, who don’t go home at the end of the day and talk to their spouse or family about what they’ve heard.

The trial itself is about creating a compelling story that aligns with the evidence. It has to be reasonable and pass the common sense test.

So here, for example, take the few facts we actually KNOW. The prosecution will tell one story - how C.W. killed his entire family. What about the defense? I have a potential storyline that fits with everything we know so far, but I don’t want to upset people so after having second thoughts, I’m not going to post it now - but it exists - and i think it can be pretty compelling.

Thanks so much for that thoughtful, detailed input! The bit about the charges being able to be reduced after they "go in with the big guns first" is scary. As you said, they have to have some evidence first but it also seems like that could be misused in many cases.

Choosing a jury must be really tough, and I also find that process to be, well, unfair. If each side gets to pick and choose some jurors, then aren't they biasing the case instead of randomly selecting people? But a random selection could prove fatal to either and/or both sides! Yet another topic for discussion, I'm sure!!

 

[Starkville]

Yes, and in regard to the barbecue, I did not realize they were not there when I first read it. Did he explain where they were? Someone must have asked him?

That goes both ways.

Unsubstantiated statements by anonymous insiders are also not sworn testimony and not close to admissible evidence or even verified facts.

And while there is reason to believe SW painted a positive picture when reality was likely different - which many people do daily in FB and which is part of the MLM business- that doesn't evidence that she lied about the serious, negative stuff she actually divulged.

On the other hand, it has been confirmed that CW is a dishonest and bold-faced liar. He lied about something devastating: The whereabouts and condition (by omission) of his missing and dead family.

So IMO we have reason to disbelieve every word out of his mouth. But not hers. Exaggerating the positive in order to sell a product is not an indication that a person is not otherwise trustworthy. Lying about your strangled family, is. My two cents.

IMO, they both have credibility issues. His lies were a lot more damaging than hers.

*shrugs*

 

[bluesneakers]

In my head I have played around with every conceiveable scenario. I even played around with a botched murder/suicide pact with him ultimately chickening out in the end. My final settlement on him being solely responsible did not come lightly. At this point it would take some pretty solid physical evidence (more than just her DNA on their necks) for me to buy her responsible. No scenario other than him doing it makes sense to me.

I actually don't think this is a unique case. Family anhilators have been around forever; Christian Longo also strangled his wife and kids and blamed her for the kids' death. Unfortunately, this kind of thing does happen. Doesn't make it less tragic, though.

I agree it’s not such a unique case, which is troubling and sad and scary in its own way. Other than how public their lives were thanks to SM and her career choice. Usually there are more mysteries.

 

[nwmouse]

I am wondering if he was grilling because he was going to have a friend over for a cozy dinner, one last time before the wife returns home?

Do we know if the AP has ever been inside CW's house? Surely he wouldn't risk brining an AP home because the neighbors would notice? MOO.

 

[dgfred]

Maybe evilG was trying to say he didn't have any options... well, few for sure of getting rid of the bodies. He couldn't deviate from his normal path because of GPS possibly on his truck.

 

[Tricia]

PUTTING THE ISSUE OF THE ICE CREAM DRAMA TO REST!!!!!

I have been in touch with a person who was there the day that you all are talking about. Here is what this person told me:

. It was not Bella or Cece that ate any ice cream. It was another grandchild There were NO NUTS of any kind on the ice cream It was a plain individual cup of vanilla ice cream Package said it may have been processed in a tree nut factory There was NO bowl of any nuts laying around

If you don't believe my source then let me tell you I have seen Shanann's social media where she discussed the other grandchild eating the ice cream. She was very clear that her daughter, the one with the allergy, was not offered the ice cream nor did she eat the ice cream.

If I see one more post about ice cream I am leaving you all and going to Outer Mongolia where there is no ice cream.

Thank you.

 

[JEM1975]

1. How much would a more reasonably priced home cost in that area of Colorado? One in a decent neighborhood?
2. What happened to the business she owned? Was it sold? Did she still get money from it? The car rim business.

I live about a mile away, new houses in my neighborhood are going for 350k on the low side and up from there. We recently were looking at a new build 3 bedroom ranch with walk out basement and 3 car garage for 525k. SW neighborhood is very nice but is definitely not over the top for this area.

 

[dgfred]

Do we know if the AP has ever been inside CW's house? Surely he wouldn't risk brining an AP home because the neighbors would notice? MOO.

Agreed... but then again he was already taking some chances it seems.

 

[katydid23]

Do we know if the AP has ever been inside CW's house? Surely he wouldn't risk brining an AP home because the neighbors would notice? MOO.

One would think so...but its not that hard to hurry one person into your garage at night. I am sure plenty of people come and go and neighbors don't think any thing of it.

 

[MassGuy]

In my head I have played around with every conceiveable scenario. I even played around with a botched murder/suicide pact with him ultimately chickening out in the end. My final settlement on him being solely responsible did not come lightly. At this point it would take some pretty solid physical evidence (more than just her DNA on their necks) for me to buy her responsible. No scenario other than him doing it makes sense to me.

I actually don't think this is a unique case. Family anhilators have been around forever; Christian Longo also strangled his wife and kids and blamed her for the kids' death. Unfortunately, this kind of thing does happen. Doesn't make it less tragic, though.

Exactly. These types of things happen with some regularity.

What doesn’t happen, is the scenario that C.W. would have us believe happened. It’s insane, bizarre, and unprecedented.

The only evidence to support his story, are his words, which have been proven to be lies.

And somehow, it appears to be working. Some people actually believe a self admitted liar who is trying to “sell us a bridge.”

I’m not buying, and never was.

 

[mtnlites]

I agree it’s not such a unique case, which is troubling and sad and scary in its own way. Other than how public their lives were thanks to SM and her career choice. Usually there are more mysteries.

The social media and MSM aspects definitely offer some intrigue that other cases haven't had. I expect this case to be one of the first to utilize so much of SM in the trial.

 

[dgfred]

You might not want to eat hardly anything in Outer Mongolia Tricia... haha