Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry you had that experience. It would not surprise me if SW is the one who provoked the discussion and ripped the sheets off the bed. Since LE found the bottom sheet, I assume it would be tested for DNA. JMO

We’ll find out in time. I was wound tight at that age & full of fire but I don’t see that happening at 2:00 am, pregnant and exhausted, 7 years into the marriage. OTOH - 2 years into dating in my 20’s??? Game on!!
 
Last edited:
Yes it’s based on facts... but it fills in the gaps in a way that - IMO - tells a story that’s aligned with CW’s innocence (relating to the 2 girls).

People have assumed that if something isn’t listed in the affidavit, it didn’t happen - which is not necessarily true - and, IMO, are underestimating the nervousness and anxiety and panic of a man who’s just killed his wife.

This is not MY position - I am not demonizing anyone or victim blaming - and I am not looking to get into any back and forth about the details - I just thought it would be an interesting exercise to pretend this was MY case, and these were the only facts in existence. How would I tell the story?

And I was quite surprised at how well it came together - in a way that I think could be relatable to a jury.

It’s a good (necessary) exercise for an attorney - but it’s a good exercise for anyone, actually. Strip away all your assumptions and look at the bare facts - not the conclusions you have drawn from them - and ask yourself how you would tell the story from the other side’s point of view, acknowledging the facts we have but also filling in the gaps in a way that is not inconsistent with those facts. How might you explain his actions in a way that aligns with his innocence (regarding the girls)? Same with his demeanor during the interview? His choice of disposal site?

I would rather challenge others to do this than give you my narrative - because I’m sure there are actually endless variations on it, with details I wouldn’t have thought of.
Very interesting, but I think there is exceedingly difficult evidence for the hypothetical defense to overcome, should no further evidence be available. It is almost superhuman to go from the complete and utter devastation of finding that your wife just murdered the kids that he says are his life to a cold, calculated cover up from your rage induced murdering of your wife, by the same means used to kill your children. Since we are assuming only facts currently available in this scenario, there would be no clear evidence of who killed the children, completely due to their disposal in crude oil for days at our client's hands. The prosecution would argue that the entire story is the only one that a cornered guilty man could come up with to mitigate his culpability, a man who lies to the police, friends, family, a worried public, to deflect blame entirely, and then when caught red handed and has to figure out a way out of the mess he created, came up with yet a new story to fit the evidence. I just do not think a reasonable jury would take kindly to the idea that a man who go from absolute rage to singular minded, cold, calculated, rehearsed cover up within one hour. The (chillingly proactive) messages by text and call to his dead wife that morning (within just hours of this nightmare scenario) and the calm plea for someone in the public to come forward would be so very damning. Moreover, as many have stated here, the dumping of the bodies of the girls he claimed were his life (in media interview) in crude oil, separately, will be another huge hurdle for anyone to relate. Last, not calling 911 when everyone knows that medics can work miracles we mere non-medic mortals simply cannot to try and save children that by his own story died within moments of his notice is another hurdle. Add in the affair and an expert for the prosecution on how seemingly normal fathers have been known to annihilate when financial and affair issues were present, and I think I'd be loathe to have the job of putting on his defense...not because I thought he was guilty (everyone deserves a rigorous defense) but because, given the facts that we know and those only, it is an incredibly uphill, herculean job. I think the story of a jilted woman killing her children is feasible, perhaps even the rage killing immediately after (assuming he contends he tried to save them and she was fighting him) ...BUT it's the nexus of these events followed by an immediate cold, calculated, unemotional and singularly focused cover up that is just a bridge too far to sell. Just IMO. I completely understand trying to present someone afraid, cornered, searching for a way out of the mess in his story - but despite what many here believe was a botched cover up by him (and it was), there are too many elements of calm, calculated, and cold in the immediate aftermath to get a jury to relate to this man's story. They need to see themselves in his situation and see how they could do it or their husband could do it given the story...and I just do not think that most people will find it relatable and, hence, believable. But what a great exercise! What does everyone else think?
 
I’m not young and I’m ashamed


Cheating men with families aren’t paying for hotel rooms - that’s a real rarity but I’m glad you don’t know that. ;)

I’m sure he was very proud of his home. His family was away for a month and he could show her that he was a great provider & give her reason to sympathize with him & resent the ungrateful wife.

It’s possible he actually felt that way. He was a stable provider, good husband & father yet his wife deserts him.

I did not know that, and I think it's less of a rarity than you may know. Some of us are just normal, moral, and loyal lol

No shame!! It doesn't matter how old or young a person is, we can all be vulnerable to people's charm and deception, particularly if we have an open heart. The challenge is to keep it open. Please do.

Completely agree with your line of thinking. He could put himself in victim mode. Which, unfortunately, I've seen folks here buying into. JMO
 
I think the average parent
I have pondered the theory that something happened to one of the children during the evening on Sunday that was accidental, and CWs shame & fear of how Shannan would react led him to make some very bad , very wrong decisions. I don't think he ever got into a panic, tho. Not until he saw NUA on his front porch. Then, he panicked.
That just reminded me of something that I haven’t read about on this forum yet. Do you remember the photograph of the girls’ 3’ tall doll that was laying on the sofa with a white blanket over it? Shanann had taken a photo of it and posted that she didn’t know quite what to make of it. It was rather disturbing imo. What do you all think?
 
I saw the JO segment! There is a podcast devoted to the weird world of MLMs launching soon that I can't wait for. I have been fascinated by them for years now. Sorry, all off topic, I know. As you were.
I have a family member that is involved with a similar company. She gets free cruises every year; her SM is all about marketing the brand.
 
There is never any justification for the murder of children. And there is no justification for verbal abusing anyone whether it be spouse, child, neighbor.

Verbally poke at someone repeatedly and you might get an unexpected reaction. Unfortunately, horrific tragedies can result. JMO

Are you saying you think Shanann's murder was justified?

Who are you asking that of, please?

MyBelle, I believe.

Here I made you a "quote train."
:)
 
I believe it has been shown that the girls typically went to bed at 6:30 pm. If this is accurate, it has been a while since we had children at that age but does 6:30 pm seem early to anyone? Again, just wanting other's thoughts and not projecting here.

It seems early to me since no kid sleeps for 12 hours straight. So 6:30 means your kid will be wide awake at 2am or something. Jmo.
 
This is curious logic. Suppose the videos paint a completely accurate picture, and both were loving parents.

Someone killed those kids. Someone squeezed the life out of them. Someone dumped their bodies like trash.

If you can kill your family, and take the actions that C.W. took after the fact, premeditation doesn’t seem to be a stretch.

It takes a cold and calculating person to do those things, and premeditation is exactly that.

Looking at Facebook videos and reaching the determination that this wasn’t premeditated, doesn’t seem to be solid logic, or have any basis in fact.

Appearances can be deceiving, because appearances aren’t necessarily reflective of reality.

This may not have been premeditated, but we shouldn’t make a call either way, based on Facebook posts.
Agree completely - moreover, I believe the legal definition of premeditation is not the long planning run up to a crime people think. I believe it can be quite a quick deliberative process in one's mind, correct?
 
iirc, the defense motion for the DNA said that they had reason to believe the ME wasn't going to collect the DNA from the girls' throats and the request was to allow the defense expert to collect it or to at least observe it. JMO
IIRC it actually had to do with retrieving dna and prints off the babies necks— they had an expert who had been apparently debunked in a prior case who said he would be able to retrieve them despite the bodies being covered in oil.

Actually, that case may be a good source for those WSers who are trying to determine what submersion in oil will do to a body. I don’t remember his name but if you go back to the court motions/news stories from that first Thurs and Friday it should be easy to find.
 
This is curious logic. Suppose the videos paint a completely accurate picture, and both were loving parents.

Someone killed those kids. Someone squeezed the life out of them. Someone dumped their bodies like trash.

If you can kill your family, and take the actions that C.W. took after the fact, premeditation doesn’t seem to be a stretch.

It takes a cold and calculating person to do those things, and premeditation is exactly that.

Looking at Facebook videos and reaching the determination that this wasn’t premeditated, doesn’t seem to be solid logic, or have any basis in fact.

Appearances can be deceiving, because appearances aren’t necessarily reflective of reality.

This may not have been premeditated, but we shouldn’t make a call either way, based on Facebook posts.
The disposal of the bodies aren't evidence of murder or intent. I equate it with panic and nothing more.

Loving parents have murdered their children in the past and there always seems to be major stress triggers such as financial, infidelity, untreated mental disorders such as depression. JMO
 
I’ll preface this by saying two things. We don’t know that SW had any indication that she was married to a guy with nefarious intent.

Her actions in no way make her anything other than a victim.

I mentioned this book in a previous discussion on a different case (Mollie Tibbetts). It’s called “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker.

The gist of it is this: Our brain has a built in self-defense mechanism. We instinctively know when something isn’t right. It is up to us, to listen to it, especially when alarm bells are going off.

I recommend it to everyone, as it applies to us all.

Shannan’s friend listened to her insticts on the day that Shanann and her kids went missing, and because of this, C.W.’s diabolical plan came off the rails.
 
Last edited:
What do you think about him refusing to give palm prints etc...? No doubt the defense will try to spin it, but it seems like he'd be happy to comply to prove his innocence.

He was quick to ask for DNA from the girls necks...so why the reluctance to provide palm prints? Why wouldn’t he be eager to be ruled out as CCW and BW’s killer?
 
We don’t know what she knew.
Most people wouldn’t post the breakdown of their marriage in progress on Facebook. It’s also not unreasonable to think she might have wanted to save her marriage. When people marry, usually they do so with the intention of it being “forever”, through good and bad, sickness and health. It doesn’t always work out that way, but generally that’s the hope!
She liked her Thrive job because she could stay at home with the kids, was always available to take them to school, appointments etc .. not really sure what you mean by that.
I never heard her call him a loser.

OP is referring to the 'checkers game' video posted a few threads back. SW was playfully teasing CW but after what's happened, it's taken a life of its own and she's a vicious harpy publicly tormenting her husband.
I wonder how these sitcoms remain so popular? Lots of similar ribbing going on between couples and they remain on the air.

Facebook isn't called fakebook for nothing, :p
 
I’ll preface this by saying two things. We don’t know that SW had any indication that she was married to a guy with nefarious intent.

Her actions in no way make her anything other than a victim.

I mentioned this book in a previous discussion on a different case (Mollie Tibbetts). It’s called “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker.

The gist of it is this: Our brain has a built in self-defense mechanism. We instinctively know when something isn’t right. It is up to us, to listen to it, especially when alarm bells are going off.

I recommend it to everyone, as it applies to us all.

Shannan’s friend listened to her insticts on the day that Shanann and her kids went missing. And because of this, C.W.’s diabolical plan came off the rails.
I second that recommendation.
 
It seems early to me since no kid sleeps for 12 hours straight. So 6:30 means your kid will be wide awake at 2am or something. Jmo.
My youngest sleeps for 13 hours at night without waking up and has since 6 weeks old. Now my oldest is a horrible sleeper, and still wakes up once a night at 4 years old!:eek:
 
I reviewed the corporation’s articles of incorporation and articles of dissolution, and do not see her as an officer of shareholder of the company. However, I don’t have access to the annual reports that may have included her at some point.

Looks like the company was in business from 2006-2008.

North Carolina Secretary of State Business Registration Search
Thanks for confirming that others are sleuthing a dissolved corporation that SW was once employed by -- more than 10 years ago!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
89
Guests online
1,619
Total visitors
1,708

Forum statistics

Threads
605,487
Messages
18,187,666
Members
233,389
Latest member
Bwitzke
Back
Top