Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

[NuttMegg]

Would you like the idea of another woman sleeping in your bed with your husband? I sure wouldn't and would have done the same thing. JMO

you said she started the discussion then ripped the sheets off the bed. So how am i supposed to know the steps you leave out? I doubt the ap had a sleep over while he had the kids that weekend.

 

[MassGuy]

The disposal of the bodies aren't evidence of murder or intent. I equate it with panic and nothing more.

Loving parents have murdered their children in the past and there always seems to be major stress triggers such as financial, infidelity, untreated mental disorders such as depression. JMO

I absolutely agree with the second part of your statement. In regards to the first, I completely disagree. The disposal of the bodies is evidence of “consciousness of guilt.” That action was evidence that he had done something criminal.

His explanation stretches all believability. If the crime occurred the way he claims, his actions make no sense.

There is no precedence for anyone doing anything similar, unless of course, they are covering up murder.

You don’t take the bodies of your loved ones, and dump them, when your only crime was defending your kids.

 

[MyBelle]

Are you saying you think Shanann's murder was justified?

No.

 

[flourish]

Thanks for confirming that others are sleuthing a dissolved corporation that SW was once employed by -- more than 10 years ago!

? I don't understand

 

[Medstudies]

Oh, ok. I think I can explain. I think in our culture it is expected to handle a body with respect and care. Even although the soul has left the body, it is still looked at as representing the living person it once was. It is more for the family and loved ones, imo. When an undertaker comes to retrieve a body, the head is covered to maintain the dignity of the person that has died. In the morgue, the body is cleaned meticulously depending on the wishes of that individual, and whether or not there is an open casket, etc. Ashes are spread in places that were special to that person. The way a body is handled is often in a similar manner to if it were living. Especially for members of the armed services, who gave their lives for their country it us a way to honor them. If you think of a body as a "symbol" for the soul that once occupied it, it might be easier to understand. I'm really not sure I know how else to explain it. Hope that helps.

Same with the medical school and research centers handling of cadavers.

There is reverential care in handling of the remains of those who have donated their body to the universities. It is an amazing and humbling experience.

But I suppose it’s just an experiential thing.

 

[Mosaic]

Very interesting, but I think there is exceedingly difficult evidence for the hypothetical defense to overcome, should no further evidence be available. It is almost superhuman to go from the complete and utter devastation of finding that your wife just murdered the kids that he says are his life to a cold, calculated cover up from your rage induced murdering of your wife, by the same means used to kill your children. Since we are assuming only facts currently available in this scenario, there would be no clear evidence of who killed the children, completely due to their disposal in crude oil for days at our client's hands. The prosecution would argue that the entire story is the only one that a cornered guilty man could come up with to mitigate his culpability, a man who lies to the police, friends, family, a worried public, to deflect blame entirely, and then when caught red handed and has to figure out a way out of the mess he created, came up with yet a new story to fit the evidence. I just do not think a reasonable jury would take kindly to the idea that a man who go from absolute rage to singular minded, cold, calculated, rehearsed cover up within one hour. The (chillingly proactive) messages by text and call to his dead wife that morning (within just hours of this nightmare scenario) and the calm plea for someone in the public to come forward would be so very damning. Moreover, as many have stated here, the dumping of the bodies of the girls he claimed were his life (in media interview) in crude oil, separately, will be another huge hurdle for anyone to relate. Last, not calling 911 when everyone knows that medics can work miracles we mere non-medic mortals simply cannot to try and save children that by his own story died within moments of his notice is another hurdle. Add in the affair and an expert for the prosecution on how seemingly normal fathers have been known to annihilate when financial and affair issues were present, and I think I'd be loathe to have the job of putting on his defense...not because I thought he was guilty (everyone deserves a rigorous defense) but because, given the facts that we know and those only, it is an incredibly uphill, herculean job. I think the story of a jilted woman killing her children is feasible, perhaps even the rage killing immediately after (assuming he contends he tried to save them and she was fighting him) ...BUT it's the nexus of these events followed by an immediate cold, calculated, unemotional and singularly focused cover up that is just a bridge too far to sell. Just IMO. I completely understand trying to present someone afraid, cornered, searching for a way out of the mess in his story - but despite what many here believe was a botched cover up by him (and it was), there are too many elements of calm, calculated, and cold in the immediate aftermath to get a jury to relate to this man's story. They need to see themselves in his situation and see how they could do it or their husband could do it given the story...and I just do not think that most people will find it relatable and, hence, believable. But what a great exercise! What does everyone else think?

RBBM: and I will definitively call this: Post of the Day!

 

[Johnny1181]

The disposal of the bodies aren't evidence of murder or intent. I equate it with panic and nothing more.

Loving parents have murdered their children in the past and there always seems to be major stress triggers such as financial, infidelity, untreated mental disorders such as depression. JMO

A loving parent supposedly seeing one baby blue on a baby monitor and another being strangled would panic... and call 911 while attempting to save their lives. MOO

 

[Hazelnutty]

The doll pic has been bounced around quite a bit. I agree it's a really creepy pic. And the way the white plastic mat seems to be formed into a face shape with features? Extra creepy.
I think the doll was an Disney Elsa doll that was dragged around into all sorts of little girl pretend play.

I think maybe the doll was covered as a child's afterthought & it wasn't a careful covering. Just a fluke.


Side note: I spent hours perusing pics of Shannan & family back in August. I ran across a pic of Shannan rocking one of the girls to sleep. The baby blanket waz covering the daughter with the corner pulled up to the child's forehead as kind of a shield from light, other business going on keeping child awake. My Mom did the same with my little bro.

Lots of opinions here !

I think the average parent

That just reminded me of something that I haven’t read about on this forum yet. Do you remember the photograph of the girls’ 3’ tall doll that was laying on the sofa with a white blanket over it? Shanann had taken a photo of it and posted that she didn’t know quite what to make of it. It was rather disturbing imo. What do you all think?

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Mrspratcher said: ↑
I reviewed the corporation’s articles of incorporation and articles of dissolution, and do not see her as an officer of shareholder of the company. However, I don’t have access to the annual reports that may have included her at some point.

Looks like the company was in business from 2006-2008.

North Carolina Secretary of State Business Registration Search

Thanks for confirming that others are sleuthing a dissolved corporation that SW was once employed by -- more than 10 years ago!

I think the main reason for sleuthing is that some WS members are trying to ascertain how SW could afford to purchase and furnish the size of home she did in NC on her own at that time.

 

[PommyMommy]

AB 9/18/18
1. Prosecution asked for Autopsy Report stay sealed. Why? Prosecution believes info about results is so critical to getting a conviction, they don’t want to take any chances. Information in autopsy could taint potential witnesses who have not yet been interviewed and jury pool.
2. Defense filed motion not to have to supply DNA, fingerprints, and palm prints because it is unreasonable search and seizure. It is routine for Prosecution to get this evidence, Defense is objecting just for the purpose of objecting.
3. Judged denied Defense request to investigate leaks, and today the Courts released a handful more documents. Defense filed an appeal asking judge to reconsider,
4. CW has access to newspapers.
5. Defense not happy about leaked information People Magazine printed and actually quoted them in motion. Motion cited that C.W. “showed no emotion when he was being booked,” “no evidence SW killed kids” “CW had been thinking about this for quite some time,” “evidence found in CW’struck.” “Evidence found in bedding, clothes, computers, phones, text messages, and search histories” Defense is not happy about this info getting out there.
6. Interesting that C.W. did not complain about information revealed about multiple affairs with male and female partners.
7. Has Defense been given discovery? As of two weeks ago, they haven’t been given a single page of discovery. Not unusual, CW hasn’t been arraigned, yet.
8. Defense could present a motion to dismiss the case if they can prove that State was selectively leaking pieces of information to taint the jury.
9. Richard Hodges, CW’s former roommate is guest on show. They attended classes together at the NASCAR Technical Institute. What kind of person is C.W.? CW was straight as an arrow. Very dedicated to school, very dedicated to his work, most likely to succeed. Wasn’t the kind of guy who went out and partied, a lot of guys did, but not C.W. He was more like, this is school, this is my future, and this is what I’m going to do. Worked hard, graduated with honors. Very strange to see someone like him being transformed into what we see today. A lot of old classmates have started talking and all on the same page, no one gets it. No one knows what to make of it. Hodges did not stay in touch over the years. After school they worked at the same dealership, but after that Hodges chose different career and moved. Lost touch. Hasn’t talked to him since 2005. None of school friends stayed in touch. CW was quiet and reserved, but not in negative fashion. Very rarely went out with friends. He was hard on himself, he wanted to get good grades and do well.
10. Hodges’ mom saved graduation program from 2004. Shows C.W. ‘s accolades. CW was most outstanding in class.
11. He worked out and was physically fit during school.
12. Does not remember C.W. dating anyone. Never brought anyone home. Didn’t seem odd. He was a perfectionist, very focused on grades. Reserved personality prevented him from meeting people. CW wasn’t a fan of large groups.
13. Any recollection of C.W. acting impulsively? No, he kept to his routine wasn’t impulsive. His attitude was he’d get down on himself once in a while if he didn’t think he was doing well. He pushed himself to do well in school. Never mad, very mellow. How he was,”emotionless” in his interview, that’s how he was back then.
14. Hodges biggest lesson from this whole situation is, “You think you know someone but you really don’t. There’s always gonna be people who have skeletons in their closets that they hide very well.”
15. Will Hodges reach out to him now? No. No need or desire to do so. Has not been contacted by either Prosecution or Defense.
16. What clues could be in Watts family trash? Why wasn’t it a crime scene starting Monday night? Trash day was a Tuesday, CW may have had 48 hours to clean up crime scene and get rid of it. LE didn’t have enough information or probable cause until second day.

Viewer Questions
1. Is C.W. being honest with his legal team? It’s actually a real problem. Not so sure of this image of C.W. being a loving family man is real. There’s something inside C.W. we’re not hearing about. Where are his current friends? Where is his family? How come nobody is speaking up for him? How come he was working in the Oil Industry and not for NASCAR that he had training for and loved so much? More silent than most other cases.

17. Got Hodges back on phone to discuss porch interviews. Hodges says the guy on the porch was typical C.W. The nervous rocking back and forth was him. Arms crossed, he was a shy guy. He’d do that. The part that seemed strange was the laugh, that was creepish, and never knew him to lie.

Layla, I don't think I've thanked you for taking the time every day to watch the show, take notes and give us these updates, but I have read every one of them and I appreciate you doing this. Thank you.

 

[Gardener1850]

Who are you asking that of, please?

The poster I quoted MyBelle

 

[MKZoo]

I’ll preface this by saying two things. We don’t know that SW had any indication that she was married to a guy with nefarious intent.

Her actions in no way make her anything other than a victim.

I mentioned this book in a previous discussion on a different case (Mollie Tibbetts). It’s called “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker.

The gist of it is this: Our brain has a built in self-defense mechanism. We instinctively know when something isn’t right. It is up to us, to listen to it, especially when alarm bells are going off.

I recommend it to everyone, as it applies to us all.

Shannan’s friend listened to her insticts on the day that Shanann and her kids went missing, and because of this, C.W.’s diabolical plan came off the rails.

A Chicago police officer giving a safety class once told me it’s better to overreact and look dumb than BE dead. And I’m sure I have looked dumb once or twice!

 

[Best of What's Around]

RBBM: and I will definitively call this: Post of the Day!

Thanks for reading that super long-winded summary of a hypothetical trial! I didn't realize it was sooooo long until after I posted. You are a great editor!

 

[MassGuy]

A Chicago police officer giving a safety class once told me it’s better to overreact and look dumb than BE dead. And I’m sure I have looked dumb once or twice!

Exactly. It’s easy to brush off concerns and rationalize your fears. It’s easy to “be nice” to someone who is harassing you.

It is difficult to take action, in some cases drastic action. But if your brain is telling you something, it’s better to listen and look stupid, then ignore it and pay the ultimate price.

 

[Johnny1181]

Would you like the idea of another woman sleeping in your bed with your husband? I sure wouldn't and would have done the same thing. JMO

Or if you'd just strangled your pregnant wife after strangling your babies wouldn't you want to strip the bed and wrap her up and all the evidence you fear her strangulation left on that sheet and cover it all in dirt? JMO

 

[nwmouse]

But, the children were murdered, likely by their dad. To me that is what's horrifying. I would think most body disposals by the murderer are not dignified. It's all very disturbing, but the murder trumps the manner of disposal, IMO, as far as horror goes.

Oh, you may have missed some of the thread as that was my REPLY to someone discussing the burials/desecration of bodies. We're all aware that the murder trumps everything.

 

[Gardener1850]

Oh yes, I forgot. Thanks.

Lol, I think I understand, and I may be joining you in forgetfulness later on

 

[katie565]

I did not know that, and I think it's less of a rarity than you may know. Some of us are just normal, moral, and loyal lol

No shame!! It doesn't matter how old or young a person is, we can all be vulnerable to people's charm and deception, particularly if we have an open heart. The challenge is to keep it open. Please do.

Completely agree with your line of thinking. He could put himself in victim mode. Which, unfortunately, I've seen folks here buying into. JMO

Agree! My editing in that reply was off so I deleted it but I guess it doesn’t go away in replies. Ughh!

Now that it’s out there, I agree with you that normal, loyal people are very common. I know that now! I didn’t know that in my teens, 20’s and longer than I’m willing to admit here. I was cheated on and I was also the other woman. Water seeks its own level and I was an active participant in shallow, crazy, hurtful relationships on all sides.

I don’t see my unhealthy experiences reflected here with Shanann and Chris. I don’t see any warning signs and it looks like a happy, healthy marriage and family. Soooo, I think my experience isn’t helpful aside from knowing cheating men love to show off the stability & great life they have to offer. Chris would have a lot to show off

 

[DexterMorgan]

My youngest sleeps for 13 hours at night without waking up and has since 6 weeks old. Now my oldest is a horrible sleeper, and still wakes up once a night at 4 years old!

My kids are now 16and 14 and they stay up later than me and the mrs.

I need to start a date night go fund me with the mrs from now on.

Raising Money For A Hotel Room & A Bottle of Booze For The Night!

 

[Mrspratcher]

YES someone please explain this last one. How can refuse to give his palm print and so on.

The 4th Amendment to the US Constitution (applicable to the state’s via the 14th amendment), prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. He’s arguing that the State lacks probable cause and this is an unreasonable request violative of the 4th/14th amendments. He does not want to comply until the State makes a more detailed explanation as to why they want his DNA, prints, picture, and palm prints.

 

[Sleuthine]

It seems early to me since no kid sleeps for 12 hours straight. So 6:30 means your kid will be wide awake at 2am or something. Jmo.

Mine do. Seriously. 11 hours straight.