Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

[MsBetsy]

Same with the medical school and research centers handling of cadavers.

There is reverential care in handling of the remains of those who have donated their body to the universities. It is an amazing and humbling experience.

But I suppose it’s just an experiential thing.

That's good to know. I had never thought of that.

 

[MyBelle]

I understand what you are saying. But the point was made by many as well as Attorney G that the FB videos do not constitute what would be legally considered verbal/emotional abuse. Also, whose motive are we discussing? As I said before, he claims he killed her in a rage for allegedly killing their children. She did not kill him. So whose motive?

All that matters in this case is what the jury decides is abusive behavior by either parent prior to the murder. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I understand what you are saying. But the point was made by many as well as Attorney G that the FB videos do not constitute what would be legally considered verbal/emotional abuse. Also, whose motive are we discussing? As I said before, he claims he killed her in a rage for allegedly killing their children. She did not kill him. So whose motive?

All that matters in this case is what the jury decides is abusive behavior by either parent prior to the murder. JMO

 

[flourish]

Delete

Here's a disco levity break instead



Peter Griffin Dance GIF by Family Guy - Find & Share on GIPHY

 

[human]

When I was a teacher, at the school I worked at, we did not allow children to do put downs of others.

We discussed how words hurt.I am sure people have seen the crumpled paper that cannot be smoothed out again.

I had lots of training because we were expected to have respectful classrooms. One of the trainings was about giving ,”I “ messages. Communication skills.

Having to discuss with parents that their child may need testing for special needs. Discussing with parents about all kinds of issues that may not be palatable.

One of the problems we face in Minnesota is that we are known to be stoic and not express emotion. Hence, the book How to Talk Minnesotan.

We learned a lot about discussing with others how things may make us feel. That may not be true in other places. People may be far more open on how other’s words and actions affect them. Maybe it is OK in other places to be made fun of publicly. I guess other people don’t mind if someone makes fun of them for the world to see.

 

[Tigerlily75]

So? I have to have solid proof before I can reasonably take something into consideration?

Nobody who thinks CW is guilty of all have been influenced by the SM stuff? Nobody stating Shanann couldn't possibly have done it uses her SM as evidence of their perspective? Uhno. It comes into discussion a lot and it's used to back up those opinions. My personal opinion is subject to change based on more info... And I've expressed theories I have about cw being the perp!

I can’t speak for anyone else but my view of CW’s guilt is definitely not influenced by social media. On the contrary, if it was there’s no way I’d think he’d done it, I wouldn’t think either of them did. That’s what was so intriguing and strange about this case, this couple seemed so genuinely happy and in love and to be a functioning family who adored their kids.

My current view on CW is based on the evidence/confession/affidavit and his behavior surrounding the crime. It was clear really quickly that he had a lot to hide and could lie very easily

 

[BelleIsle]

These threads move much too fast. You know, Shan'ann seemed to be a "to the point" person. If CW had pissed her off so badly that she needed to act out, it seems to me that she would have physically attacked HIM not her daughters. She had nothing to gain by attacking them. With him, she could have easily claimed self-defense and walked away with her kids. He had more to gain by murdering any/all of them. That says enough for me.

 

[MsBetsy]

No, I did not state it as fact. I gave my opinion.

I think the poster was asking for more detail of the opinion, such as what would lead to her to do that, etc because I wondered the same thing.

 

[MassGuy]

I can’t speak for anyone else but my view of CW’s guilt is definitely not influenced by social media. On the contrary, if it was there’s no way I’d think he’d done it, I wouldn’t think either of them did. That’s what was so intriguing and strange about this case, this couple seemed so genuinely happy and in love and to be a functioning family who adored their kids.

My current view on CW is based on the evidence/confession/affidavit and his behavior surrounding the crime. It was clear really quickly that he had a lot to hide and could lie very easily

I share the same view as you. The only video I’ve focused on, is the porch interview, where C.W. seems to be attempting to beat some sort of world record, in how many lies he can tell in a certain period of time.

Even that, I see as far less important than the rest of the known evidence though.

 

[Mosaic]

All that matters in this case is what the jury decides is abusive behavior by either parent prior to the murder. JMO

Respectfully disagree with your statement. All that matters in this case is that a pregnant woman and her two babies were murdered by CW. They were reported missing by CW. After lying to their family, friends, news media and LE, he then negotiated to disclose the location of his family. SW (and baby Nico) buried on a shallow grave, Cece and Belle dumped on an oil tank.

A verbally abused grown up man don't need to resource to murder, hide and put a façade for family, friends, media and LE, just to end verbal abuse.

Packing and leaving was a decent, normal and legal option.

JMO

 

[Johnny1181]

All that matters in this case is what the jury decides is abusive behavior by either parent prior to the murder. JMO

As I posted before.... all that matters is that Shanann, Bella, CeCe, and Nico are dead (I'm so sorry to be so blunt) buried in dirt and oil...

All while CW (I want to use another word for him but I'm not allowed and that's ok) lied, preened, spoke with his father, made up stories about play dates...

Threw his babies into oil and buried Nico and Shanann under dirt.

Saw a supposed blue face and a supposed strangulation happening and did not call 911 or attempt to save his babies.

Instead murdered this loving mother and Nico and (sorry to be graphic) loaded them into the back of his truck and dumped them in oil and dirt.

That is what matters. MOO MOO MOO

 

[cailleach]

When I was a teacher, at the school I worked at, we did not allow children to do put downs of others.

We discussed how words hurt.I am sure people have seen the crumpled paper that cannot be smoothed out again.

I had lots of training because we were expected to have respectful classrooms. One of the trainings was about giving ,”I “ messages. Communication skills.

Having to discuss with parents that their child may need testing for special needs. Discussing with parents about all kinds of issues that may not be palatable.

One of the problems we face in Minnesota is that we are known to be stoic and not express emotion. Hence, the book How to Talk Minnesotan.

We learned a lot about discussing with others how things may make us feel. That may not be true in other places. People may be far more open on how other’s words and actions affect them. Maybe it is OK in other places to be made fun of publicly. I guess other people don’t mind if someone makes fun of them for the world to see.

Those are great lessons for kids but as adults we use many types of humor with those to whom we are close. Playfulness in the form of kidding/teasing exists in many healthy relationships. Please keep in mind we also have zero of CW's FB posts for the people interested in dissecting them to review. You might be surprised that he also teased and joked with her.

 

[idfinch]

So? I have to have solid proof before I can reasonably take something into consideration?

Nobody who thinks CW is guilty of all have been influenced by the SM stuff? Nobody stating Shanann couldn't possibly have done it uses her SM as evidence of their perspective? Uhno. It comes into discussion a lot and it's used to back up those opinions. My personal opinion is subject to change based on more info... And I've expressed theories I have about cw being the perp!

I don't know about "nobody" because that's a pretty vast statement. But for me personally, no.

I've watched a few SM videos that have been linked here because for a while it was like a smoking gun or "aha" moment why he could have hated her or resented her enough to murder her. Or why she was evil enough to hurt her own children. Those MLM videos were grabbed onto like a hungry dog with a bone.

When terms like abuse are thrown around it is a serious claim. I've been through it in my own way and don't want to see anyone of either sex abused for any reason. I personally saw nothing of major concern. YMMV. I'm not a professional, either, nor do I think they represent an accurate sample of someone's entire life or marriage. I don't think that SM videos should be in any way shape or form used to diagnose or speculate on a murder victim's possible mental illness or abusiveness to her husband and children when those things have never been stated anywhere else pre or post death, and in fact if I'm not mistaken, the VIs who are able to diagnose have specifically said they can't or wouldn't diagnose based on video clips and SM.

My belief in his guilt is based on the evidence, on his interviews, on his deliberate lies, on his actions after the disappearance and murders, on the inconsistencies, and on his last ditch effort to blame his wife after all of this.

Social media plays zero part in how I see either of them as far as this case and I wish to heaven it didn't even exist because poor Shanann has been dragged and dragged and dragged. She's either an abuser or a fake or a liar. It's painful. JMO.

 

[flourish]

I was just wondering, are you a psychologist or somehow otherwise licensed to diagnose or professionaly address personality or mental disorders or abnormal behavior? Sincere question. Not being snarky.

Must one be licensed to recognize passive aggressive behavior? That's what the OP said. Not a personality disorder, or a mental disorder or addressing any of same.

OP wasn't making a clinical statement in that post.

There may be a verified psychologist somewhere on WS, though. If anyone knows one, let's get them over here.

(If there is one already, I apologise for not knowing that)

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

When I was a teacher, at the school I worked at, we did not allow children to do put downs of others.

We discussed how words hurt.I am sure people have seen the crumpled paper that cannot be smoothed out again.

I had lots of training because we were expected to have respectful classrooms. One of the trainings was about giving ,”I “ messages. Communication skills.

Having to discuss with parents that their child may need testing for special needs. Discussing with parents about all kinds of issues that may not be palatable.

One of the problems we face in Minnesota is that we are known to be stoic and not express emotion. Hence, the book How to Talk Minnesotan.

We learned a lot about discussing with others how things may make us feel. That may not be true in other places. People may be far more open on how other’s words and actions affect them. Maybe it is OK in other places to be made fun of publicly. I guess other people don’t mind if someone makes fun of them for the world to see.

OT/
@human
Minnesota teacher here, too. One of the classes I taught was Communications, which included teaching the skills you mention in your post.

 

[MyBelle]

When I was a teacher, at the school I worked at, we did not allow children to do put downs of others.

We discussed how words hurt.I am sure people have seen the crumpled paper that cannot be smoothed out again.

I had lots of training because we were expected to have respectful classrooms. One of the trainings was about giving ,”I “ messages. Communication skills.

Having to discuss with parents that their child may need testing for special needs. Discussing with parents about all kinds of issues that may not be palatable.

One of the problems we face in Minnesota is that we are known to be stoic and not express emotion. Hence, the book How to Talk Minnesotan.

We learned a lot about discussing with others how things may make us feel. That may not be true in other places. People may be far more open on how other’s words and actions affect them. Maybe it is OK in other places to be made fun of publicly. I guess other people don’t mind if someone makes fun of them for the world to see.

You are spot on! Bullying was prohibited in our school district shortly after Columbine. Hurtful words are a form of manipulation and control and why it can be just as destructive as physical abuse. Teasing a child is NOT okay under any circumstances, imo.

Thanks much for your wise words!

 

[Tigerlily75]

All that matters in this case is what the jury decides is abusive behavior by either parent prior to the murder. JMO

But you’re not allowed to kill somebody just because they were mean to you.

Juries are given instructions regarding the law and murder is illegal. They might decided Shanann was mean, but he’s still not allowed to kill her.

 

[MKZoo]

I have chosen not to dive in to the minute details of SWs Facebook because I don’t think it’s indicative of much. Certainly not that she’s a liar or a murderer. I accept that FB is a shined up version of real life for almost everyone who uses it, not just those promoting a business. I don’t think anyone wants to give or receive the nitty gritty details of life in that format.

If I am having serious troubles, my close friends and family know about it. I don’t share them online because I doubt someone I went grade school with and haven’t seen in a more than a decade really cares all that much. Those “friends” just want to laugh at some dumb story about how I fell off my porch trying to re-hang my flag.

The things I find indicative of what happened in this case are those that the only one left alive to tell about it has said and done. Imo, those things don’t point toward his innocence.

 

[Johnny1181]

Must one be licensed to recognize passive aggressive behavior? That's what the OP said. Not a personality disorder, or a mental disorder or addressing any of same.

OP wasn't making a clinical statement in that post.

There may be a verified psychologist somewhere on WS, though. If anyone knows one, let's get them over here.

(If there is one already, I apologise for not knowing that)

In a court of law, yes. And SM posts IMO would not lend to the "diagnosis" and justify the murder of these poor victims who thanks to CW.... have no voice here to defend themselves against or tell their own stories about these horrific allegations against a loving wife, mother. And friend. JMO

 

[flourish]

So, let's considered that scenario, verbally abused CW strangled SW. My question, did Cece or Bella verbally abused CW and that's why he strangled them and dump their bodies on oil tanks? Can you explain that to me?

I am merely exploring what CW may have had in his mind as a motive.

I have been more than clear that I am not saying HIS motive is supposed to be reasonable, nor have I said I think any motive is reasonable for murder. Exactly the opposite. So, no, I cannot explain to you what ANYONE'S motive for murdering any of the Watts family IS, because I am simply exploring what could have driven CHRIS WATTS to kill his family members.

I did not kill anyone. I did not condone, nor excuse, the killing of anyone ever.

I haven't even begun to explore any motive for him to kill the babies, except the obvious extension of Shanann.

ETA "driven" to kill is not implying anyone else did the freaking driving, either!