Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

[MyBelle]

But you’re not allowed to kill somebody just because they were mean to you.

Juries are given instructions regarding the law and murder is illegal. They might decided Shanann was mean, but he’s still not allowed to kill her.

There are different degrees of murder. There are lessor charges. And yes, some parents kill their spouse in self defense of themselves or their children. That's what trials are for.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I have chosen not to dive in to the minute details of SWs Facebook because I don’t think it’s indicative of much. Certainly not that she’s a liar or a murderer. I accept that FB is a shined up version of real life for almost everyone who uses it, not just those promoting a business. I don’t think anyone wants to give or receive the nitty gritty details of life in that format.

If I am having serious troubles, my close friends and family know about it. I don’t share them online because I doubt someone I went grade school with and haven’t seen in a more than a decade really cares all that much. Those “friends” just want to laugh at some dumb story about how I fell off my porch trying to re-hang my flag.

The things I find indicative of what happened in this case are those that the only one left alive to tell about it has said and done. Imo, those things don’t point toward his innocence.

Exactly. And not too many people would tell dad they killed their own daughters.

 

[MsBetsy]

These threads move much too fast. You know, Shan'ann seemed to be a "to the point" person. If CW had pissed her off so badly that she needed to act out, it seems to me that she would have physically attacked HIM not her daughters. She had nothing to gain by attacking them. With him, she could have easily claimed self-defense and walked away with her kids. He had more to gain by murdering any/all of them. Thats says enough for me.

Yes, at some point there was a discussion as to who would be more likely to want out of the marraige and would be better on their own. Similar points were made about SW having the motivation and where-with- all, the drive, her devotion to her kids, and just seems more independent. He seems more like he just goes through the motions, waiting for someone to tell him what to do or how to do it. I wonder if it's any coincidence he had another women to be there to fall back on. I don't know who made the first move and suggested the separation, but SW had much more to gain by taking the kids and being rid of him than killing her kids and having nothing. I just can't see it. Jmo

 

[flourish]

In a court of law, yes. And SM posts IMO would not lend to the "diagnosis" and justify the murder of these poor victims who thanks to CW.... have no voice here to defend themselves against or tell their own stories about these horrific allegations against a loving wife, mother. And friend. JMO

I'm in my bedroom on a tablet. I'm not in court.

 

[human]

But you’re not allowed to kill somebody just because they were mean to you.

Juries are given instructions regarding the law and murder is illegal. They might decided Shanann was mean, but he’s still not allowed to kill her.

I think flourish has explained it well. It seems from what has been said about him, he wanted to excel For whatever reason, he was not excelling in his marriage.

Whatever reasons he chose to kill make perfect sense to him. Killing someone makes no sense except for some instances that would make sense to most of us such as a child killing a sex abusing parent that they cannot get away from.

 

[Mosaic]

I am merely exploring what CW may have had in his mind as a motive.

I have been more than clear that I am not saying HIS motive is supposed to be reasonable, nor have I said I think any motive is reasonable for murder. Exactly the opposite. So, no, I cannot explain to you what ANYONE'S motive for murdering any of the Watts family IS, because I am simply exploring what could have driven CHRIS WATTS to kill his family members.

I did not kill anyone. I did not condone, nor excuse, the killing of anyone ever.

I haven't even begun to explore any motive for him to kill the babies, except the obvious extension of Shanann.

ETA "driven" to kill is not implying anyone else did the freaking driving, either!

Thanks for your reply.
Regarding the bolded portion: would I be correct that the bolded word (ANYONE'S) implies that you are exploring the possibility of SW as the one who killed her babies? I'm not been snarky, I'm just curious in terms of the scenario/motives/means.

 

[MsBetsy]

There are different degrees of murder. There are lessor charges. And yes, some parents kill their spouse in self defense of themselves or their children. That's what trials are for.

But he isn't claiming self defense. The point was you can't just kill someone for treating you poorly. That doesn't get you a lessor charge.

 

[MassGuy]

I am merely exploring what CW may have had in his mind as a motive.

I have been more than clear that I am not saying HIS motive is supposed to be reasonable, nor have I said I think any motive is reasonable for murder. Exactly the opposite. So, no, I cannot explain to you what ANYONE'S motive for murdering any of the Watts family IS, because I am simply exploring what could have driven CHRIS WATTS to kill his family members.

I did not kill anyone. I did not condone, nor excuse, the killing of anyone ever.

I haven't even begun to explore any motive for him to kill the babies, except the obvious extension of Shanann.

ETA "driven" to kill is not implying anyone else did the freaking driving, either!

I think your exploration of motive, is being conflated with belief in his innocence. There are people who lean that way, and you are being lumped in with them.

I don't agree with your reasoning that Facebook videos can be used to determine possible motive, but we're all entitled to our opinions, and mine are no more important than yours.

 

[Gulliver]

But you’re not allowed to kill somebody just because they were mean to you.

Juries are given instructions regarding the law and murder is illegal. They might decided Shanann was mean, but he’s still not allowed to kill her.

But it does give insight into what might have driven him over the edge. If indeed he did it without planning ahead. There is nothing I can imagine to get insight on either of them killing the little girls.

 

[Allabouttrial]

In a court of law, yes. And SM posts IMO would not lend to the "diagnosis" and justify the murder of these poor victims who thanks to CW.... have no voice here to defend themselves against or tell their own stories about these horrific allegations against a loving wife, mother. And friend. JMO

If I may, how do you know SW was a loving wife and mother? Or is that just YOO

ETA: I apologise I missed your JMO. So if I may, what leads you to believe she was a loving wife and mother?

 

[flourish]

Thanks for your reply.
Regarding the bolded portion: would I be correct that the bolded word (ANYONE'S) implies that you are exploring the possibility of SW as the one who killed her babies? I'm not been snarky, I'm just curious in terms of the scenario/motives/means.

I've stated it several times, but it's cool
I think it's more likely than not that cw killed them all. However, at this point, I have reasonable doubt with the girls. Subject to change with additional information.

I've considered tattooing that on my face, but a) y'all can't see me and b) ow c) gross

Lol

 

[Johnny1181]

There are different degrees of murder. There are lessor charges. And yes, some parents kill their spouse in self defense of themselves or their children. That's what trials are for.

And some call 911 and try to save their babies.

And yes... some parents having an affair kill their spouse and children,while weaving a web of lies, in a moment when they are unable to defend themselves, in order to make a new life. And then get caught in the act by a friend of said spouse who showed up to help her worried she was ill. Because she is pregnant, and not feeling well.

Some loving parents then show up at work after dumping his babies in separate oil tanks and burying his wife and unborn son in shallow dirt. Then some parents lie to news cameras and preen for the camera smiling in their shirt.

And some say the sky isn't blue.

Moo moo moo

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'm in my bedroom on a tablet. I'm not in court.

 

[flourish]

In cases where abused spouses kill their spouse, is the abuse considered in the sentencing as mitigating circumstances?

I'm not familiar with many of those cases I'll have to research but if anyone knows that'd be cool.

 

[Tigerlily75]

There are different degrees of murder. There are lessor charges. And yes, some parents kill their spouse in self defense of themselves or their children. That's what trials are for.

He didn’t try to save his babies though. He just let them die. He didn’t kill her to save them.

No calls to 911, no screams for help, no beating on the neighbors door.. nothing.

He piled the bodies in his car and drove them to an oil field.

 

[Mosaic]

There are different degrees of murder. There are lessor charges. And yes, some parents kill their spouse in self defense of themselves or their children. That's what trials are for.

Not unheard of, but even while defending yourself or protecting your children the "reasonable force" factors in; as in ending the attacker's life vs restraining and calling the cops.

EBM: to remove JMO because "reasonable force" is not my opinion, it's a legal term.

 

[cailleach]

I admit I have not watched hardly any of SW's social media posts. I formed an initial opinion based on experience and gut instinct that was later supported by the court filings. I've yet to see anything I believe is an actual form of trustworthy evidence that causes me to think otherwise.

What I have observed mostly shows happy, clean, well-care for children being children and a woman that primarily used SM to promote her business. I see her asking a father who has been away from the kids all day at work to take over sometimes long enough for her to do her videos. I can't tell you the number of marriages that I'm familiar with where the dad comes home and willingly takes part in active parenting to give the other party (usually, not always, the mother) who has had them all day a chance to do something that needs done that doesn't involve having the children right under foot.

I have watched his interviews, which are post-murders and, therefore, pertinent to the case. They don't fall into the field of social media though as they were news coverage.

 

[flourish]

I think your exploration of motive, is being conflated with belief in his innocence. There are people who lean that way, and you are being lumped in with them.

I don't agree with your reasoning that Facebook videos can be used to determine possible motive, but we're all entitled to our opinions, and mine are no more important than yours.

Sigh. Part of the whole picture.

Yeah I think we both agree we're done here

I mean that in an endearing manner

ETA conflated indeed yes

 

[MyBelle]

But he isn't claiming self defense. The point was you can't just kill someone for treating you poorly. That doesn't get you a lessor charge.

The jury gets to decide. Not you. Not me.

 

[gitana1]

Rbbm



You could get a restraining order based on the second bolded portion, identified as "verbal abuse"?

Yes. Typically judges want more than that. They want a pattern, or things like following, spying on, physical assault.

But technically that's enough. There's abusive talk but what's most important is that it is coupled with it is an implied threat.

They take that seriously.