Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #28

[Layla123]

To illustrate, here's an example. If I represent the defense, I will have access to whatever documents are produced to me in discovery and all information filed with the court (with few exceptions related to attorney-client privilege disputes). However, the other party may ask to redact sensitive material from some filings. If the court agrees, I will get an unredacted copy as the attorney for the defendant, but the other party will file a redacted copy that will go into the public record. So if my colleague, who is not working on the case, looked the case up on PACER (the federal court docketing system), he would only see the redacted version. The same goes for fully sealed documents. I will receive a copy as the attorney for the defendant, but if someone unrelated to the case pulled up the docket, it would say "DOCUMENT FILED UNDER SEAL" instead of the actual document.

Is all this sealing and redacting common practice, or does it only happen in high profile cases?

 

[dgfred]

testimony should not change

jurors should be well-vetted on all possibilities of prejudice.

 

[PommyMommy]

The VI said that he had repeatedly asked for a separation. We do not know that he had, though or that is what he was telling them.

Yes, and I think I asked the VI whether they heard it directly or if they were there and I didn't get an answer, so I'm assuming it was second-hand information. MOO

 

[katydid23]

I don't see grief either. I watched the video without sound and tried to "pretend" I didn't know what the interview was about and that I didn't know the back story and he appears very nervous, actually he looks and acts terrified. jmo

I don't see any grief either. And that is one of the main reasons I don't believe his version of the story.

He said that he saw SW strangling the baby, and in a fit of rage, he strangled her, killing his unborn child. How grief stricken would a man be, to see his 2 girls strangled to death, and then to be forced to kill his unborn son nd his wife?

But the next day, we see a nervous jumpy, but smiley man, who made small talk about his favorite shirt. Not a broken, grief stricken man, like we saw when SW's father spoke.

 

[Alethea]

Thank you @Alethea. Does this mean that the Defence can release the report? I think this is what @dgfred was asking?

No if it is sealed it is sealed. It is prohibited by court order from being released. The defense can oppose the state's motion and argue why it should not be sealed but it is up to the judge to decide to seal it or not.

 

[Alethea]

Is all this sealing and redacting common practice, or does it only happen in high profile cases?

It depends on the type of case. It happens often in business cases because companies do not want proprietary information released to the public. Each court has rules about what must be redacted but most will redact social security numbers and private information like addresses of witnesses or bank account/financial information. Those types of things we see even in the LE releases.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Yes that's interesting. What's also interesting is it seems IMO like Chris didn't know about the doctor's appt SW had that Monday. I would understand him not going but I would think he would at least know about it if things were ok with them. So it makes me wonder if she purposefully didn't tell him about it.

Or she did tell him and he just didn’t listen or remember. Especially if he was preoccupied with other thoughts (AP). I know I would my ex things and he would just say “yep” .. and then forget.

 

[Charlot123]

Usually appointments are made at the previous visit.

They can be rescheduled, or scheduled if there are concerns. But your are right, however, SW was away for 5 weeks - I wonder if she saw some OBGYN in NC as well? She found about the gender in NC, so she must have seen someone there. Or am I missing something?

Or did she call from NC to make an appointment?

Or CW simply never cared about her schedule as SW was so organized, and he'd merely nod, "whatever"?

It would be interesting to know when the appointment was scheduled, btw. And if she visited an OBGYN in NC.

 

[mtnlites]

What's interesting to me is how everyone ignores the giant Santa in the room.

Ya'll know CW was PARTICIPATING in those videos people think seem abusive and uncaring to the kids?

He wasn't yanking off his Santa Beard and running to comfort CeCe.
He wasn't saying, "Bella doesn't want to sit with me. Let's leave her alone." Nope. He reached for her AND HELD HER as she reached her arms up for her mom.

Pie in the face video? Water bottle video? He's also participating in those. He actually tries to grab the kids at different points to get them to get a pie on the face or get squirted, before giving up.

At no time does he ever say, "That's enough. Stop it. She is upset. You're going too far."

He does not rush to the crying child and hug her and try to console her, as so many are criticizing Shanann for not doing.

She is the only one being damned for not understanding about cortisol levels or for not taking her kids' cries or discomfort seriously in a few moments of hundreds of thousands of times kids cry in their lives or act scared, unhappy or distressed.

For some reason, silent, complicit CW escapes any criticism.

I had to take a long break from the boards for this very reason. My bp is starting to rise from all the assassinations of SW's character while CW somehow skates by. He played just as big of a part in those videos as she did.

As a parent and a former family therapist, I still don't see anything wrong with any of the videos, either. I'm embarrassed for any of her family and friends who read these shots at her.

 

[Gardener1850]

I can see it, in that learning something “shocking” can taint your memory or recollection. In the Michael Peterson case for example (who killed his wife Kathleen), Kathleen’s sister spoke highly of him and of the couples relationship in her interviews with Police. Once she learned that he had had gay affairs everything changed for her. She 100% believed he was guilty and her views and testimony of their relationship that she had witnessed changed. Her recollections became tainted by this new information.

At this stage in the investigation police would probably want to get “organic” (so to speak) testimony from witnesses. Once they know something “shocking” from the autopsy it could potentially taint their testimony, and not be as useful to the investigation (which seeks the truth)

That’s my take on it, anyway. I put “shocking” in quotes, because we have no idea what is in the autopsy. This is just an example.

This is a brilliant example and way of explaining it, thanks. I just had another thought of what could be in the autopsy they are trying to seal. What if CW gave SW a STI from his having affairs? Witnesses who may not have believed he was capable of having an affair, may change their mind and be influenced by info like that. JMO.

 

[FlossyMay]

They can be rescheduled, or scheduled if there are concerns. But your are right, however, SW was away for 5 weeks - I wonder if she saw some doctor in NC as well? Or called from NC and made an appointment? Or CW never cared about her schedule as she was so organized, merely nodidng "whatever". It would be interesting to know when the appointment was scheduled, btw.

Hmmm...I didn't think about that. I wonder when her last appointment was.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Thank you @Alethea. Does this mean that the Defence can release the report? I think this is what @dgfred was asking?

If it’s been sealed by the court then I would say no, and it would be a serious breach if they did. I’m not an attorney so correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe this would be a huge no.

 

[dgfred]

Or she did tell him and he just didn’t listen or remember. Especially if he was preoccupied with other thoughts (AP). I know I would my ex things and he would just say “yep” .. and then forget.

What???? Us guys having selective hearing or not listening... no way jose.

 

[MJPeony]

What's interesting to me is how everyone ignores the giant Santa in the room.

Ya'll know CW was PARTICIPATING in those videos people think seem abusive and uncaring to the kids?

He wasn't yanking off his Santa Beard and running to comfort CeCe.
He wasn't saying, "Bella doesn't want to sit with me. Let's leave her alone." Nope. He reached for her AND HELD HER as she reached her arms up for her mom.

Pie in the face video? Water bottle video? He's also participating in those. He actually tries to grab the kids at different points to get them to get a pie on the face or get squirted, before giving up.

At no time does he ever say, "That's enough. Stop it. She is upset. You're going too far."

He does not rush to the crying child and hug her and try to console her, as so many are criticizing Shanann for not doing.

She is the only one being damned for not understanding about cortisol levels or for not taking her kids' cries or discomfort seriously in a few moments of hundreds of thousands of times kids cry in their lives or act scared, unhappy or distressed.

For some reason, silent, complicit CW escapes any criticism.

I personally do not believe any of these videos show evidence of a deep personality disorder in either of them, so just keep that in mind as my thoughts are read. And I don't think we as outsiders can make any claims based on them that would lead us to ever "make sense" of these murder atrocities. However, I DO think the videos are useful in understanding some of the dynamics of the relationship between SW and CW, at least to a certain extent. And I also think they absolutely provide some level of insight into each of their personalities. IMO.

So that being said, I do not think it would be expected at all that CW would have intervened in these videos that you refer to. He was on live video feeds in many of them and SW was running her own show so to speak. He appears to be an actor in the productions. He does what he is told to do in almost every video I've seen. I think, based on my own personal observations of the videos and postings, and based on some VI input here, that CW often did what SW wanted him to do. When I've watched the FB videos I see him trying to play a role (pie in face guy, hair-do guy, Santa guy, pro-bar eating taste-tester, "surprised" husband who finds out oops they did it again, etc.)

During some of those videos SW can be heard explicitly asking him to do things. Like, "Chris, bring her here." type of things (that one is in the pie-in-face video for example). So if he goes to pick up crying Bella to get a pie in her face even though she doesn't want to, it's literally because SW asked him. He could have not done it though. Of course.

I'm not saying this shows she's a bad mother. I don't think she was. I'm just saying that I believe CW merely did what he was told to do (or- as the case may be- NOT to do). I think that was very much the expectation. And yes, of course it was his choice to follow the expectation. He didn't have to, of course.

JMO.

ETA grammar.

 

[Davia18]

What???? Us guys having selective hearing or not listening... no way jose.

I needed that

 

[katydid23]

I think he is more likely to be barefoot at home early in the morning than barefoot at the oil site. MOO

I cannot see him driving to the work site barefoot. If he was pulled over, or if he ran into coworkers, he would want to look like he was dressed for work, since he was driving the work truck. I just cant see why he would take his boots off at the burial site.

I feel like, IF the foot print is his, it had to happen back at the house. JMO

 

[nwmouse]

Yes, and I think I asked the VI whether they heard it directly or if they were there and I didn't get an answer, so I'm assuming it was second-hand information. MOO

What happened to the VI trinket78? I haven't seen her on these threads for a few days now and I was hoping she would chime in and answer some questions or clarify.

 

[Lorelei1]

I think the tanks were chosen because of easy access... understandable that he would go there for his job. Anywhere else he went that day would be suspicious.
I believe SW would have been in there too... if he could have pulled it off.

Hi everyone! This is my first post and I hope I do it right and the quote appears above. I was wondering if maybe he planned on burying them all together but didn’t realize the soil conditions would make digging so difficult. Maybe he felt he was running out of time and he started to panic and putting the girls in the tanks was a last minute decision? I’ve also wondered how long he was there and what time he normally started work.

 

[dgfred]

Welcome to our circus.
I have always thought all three were to go into the tanks... but either time or difficulty with SW led to her being in the shallow grave.

 

[BeanieBod]

That is what the lawyer on AB has said... but who knows. Haha

I don't know if the word 'sealed' was used.

Might be a leaky-leak tho... on accident of course if it would benefit the defense.

Does AB use a Colorado attorney? Since every state has different laws regarding pre-trial release of information, I think it would important for AB to use a Colorado attorney.