Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #32

[gitana1]

That is my question. Did he do that? Lie about stuff!

Here is the info about compulsive liars. To me, he fits.

11 Fascinating Scientific Facts About Pathological Liars

It seems pretty clear that he stood there on the porch of his home the day after he alleges he saw his wife strangle his kids to death, and he transported them for miles and disposed of their bodies, and lied through his teeth about when he last saw them and not knowing where they were, not because he has some compulsive lying issue - which everyone who knew him would've known - but because he was trying to conceal their murders and his part in it.

Not one person who knew him discussed a compulsion to lie. Compulsive liars aren't stealth. Everyone who knows them catches them in their lies because they do it so often and it's so ridiculous.

I feel one needs to stretch super hard to find any reason for his guilty behavior the day after the murders other than what IMO is the obvious - he was trying to cover up what had happened.

 

[Colorado303]

No one ever noticed him lying in the past? To me, he has the behavior of a compulsive liar. Telling lies that are obviously false and not being concerned that he would be caught in the lie.

Some people lie in situations and their lies are for a situation. They are clever. They are plausible.

But his are so rdiculous. So to me that indicates he has done this a lot and no one has ever challenged him.
no one has indicated that they recognized him as a compulsive liar, The reason I wonder about this is that I have known compulsive liars and they have other issues that are serious. Not all the same but concerning such as theft.

I don’t think he exhibited signs of being a compulsive liar any more than he exhibited signs of violence. If he’d been lying all his life you think he’d be better at it. No — either he had latent tendancies he supressed for years or something happened and he snapped. Wonder if the AP gave him an ultimatum. I do think he killed the kids when he snapped — do NOT think SW hurt them one bit.

 

[WildWest]

No. The motion 'T' is to enable the CBI to do the collection of DNA, Palm, Finger and Footprints as the original order granting this was limited to the Frederick Police Department and the DA's office.

Fantastic!!

 

[kirkassoc]

I'd prefer a life sentence without parole and hope that he lived until he was in his 90s. Every day would be a living hell and that's exactly what he deserves. A death sentence would be the easy way out as would suicide.

It's the mantra now. No death penalty. Let them live out their lives in prison. Have any of you seen the privileges and all the perks these lifers get in prison? It's a reward for a lot of them. The ONLY thing they fear is their own mortality. Those who commit murders as atrocious as this have no conscience, so it is no deterrent to give them LIFE when they gave their victims DEATH. Another well known "untruth" is that it is "cheaper" to keep them for 50-60 years in prison than it is to give them the death penalty. The prison system gets paid per prisoner to keep them alive. I have two "retired" relatives who worked for years in the prison system. Most prisoners eventually lead a rather acceptable life in prison. No work, free everything. There are exceptions, but it's rare. Watch some yt videos of what really goes on behind prison doors, it will appall you. It sure did me. MOO, JMO.

 

[Best of What's Around]

“according to his confession” does not make it a fact. In fact, based on everything we know to be a fact (which is largely limited to his TV interviews, LE, NA and the T’s statements) it is more likely to be a lie.

Absolutely! Excellent point. And thank you for sticking around here despite how obviously difficult this must be for you. Many things tossed around get under my skin, and I did not even know the family. Your input is invaluable as well as courageous given what you have sometimes have to read here daily IMO.

 

[gitana1]

Just as I am unwilling to internet diagnose SW as being bi-polar or having borderline personality disorder based on some FB videos, I can't diagnose CW as being a compulsive liar based on one situation in which he was trying to cover his hiney. Compulsive and pathological lying is way more complicated than that. He'd have to have demonstrated a history of lying not just to defend himself, but over seemingly insignificant things, and not just things that are associated with the murders. He'd lie to his co-workers and friends about what he had for breakfast, what movie he saw over the weekend, who his friends were, what kind of house he grew up in, funny things his girls said...The lying would be a literal compulsion and would serve no other purpose than to feed the compulsion he was feeling. Conversely, the lying in the interview DID serve a purpose-to hopefully get him out of trouble.

And sure, this may very well be him. But until we start hearing these stories from people who actually met him and knew him, it's not an opinion I can make.

Yup. If he was a compulsive liar that would've come out by now in one of the several interviews people have to date about him - Nickole, the Thayers, Jeremy Lindstrom, classmate from high school, shop teacher, roommate, friend who had the party the girls went to with him, etc.

Compulsive liars are easily detectable. We all have known one I'm sure. .

 

[MsBetsy]

Where is Mindhunter? Have not seen forever. Someone else asked a question recently and there was no response.

So no narcissism. Ditch that idea. Not a sociopath?

He is just an ordinary person that snapped?

I wouldn't say he just snapped. I think there may be some mental health issues. We can speculate according to what we know but even a psychologist cannot determine a diagnosis without an evaluation, including background history. We know nothing about how he grew up. I see more things indicating APD rather than Narcissistic Personality but can't even decide on that due to lack of information. I'm basing it only on his behavior and some description of his background. I am interested to see if they will conduct any tests, I haven't seen any mention of an evaluation and I don't know if that means they won't do it. I assume it would have to be ordered by the court. Maybe the lawyers can answer that... jmo

 

[Thepoet]

He may have killed her first. But I think he killed the children first as the " biggest threat" would not have been there if he killed the kids before she got home. Jmo

IMHO (forgive me if I ramble, haven't had my first cup of coffee yet, but I can smell it brewing) he killed the children first. Not just to be rid of them, but to punish SW. I also believe he showed her what he'd done. At that point, sick and tired, she would either attack him or collapse, I believe she was totally over-whelmed, collapsed, and was easy prey. She may have wailed and was heard by the neighbors who thought it was the dog, Later the dog did cry and the neighbors decided all that they heard was the dog. I believe the punishment thing fits; he puts her in a grave separated from her children and the children are placed in separate tanks.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

New court documents posted online...

Colorado Judicial Branch

ETA - nothing surprising, but at least it’s *something* new

#1) good catch by the prosecutor's office to notice that the court did not Define that the Colorado Bureau of Investigation can collect the sample, and is going back to the court to ask for such. For the foot samples.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...aseofinterest/2018CR2003/T Peoples Motion.pdf

Their motion has already been granted to include the CBI

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...trict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Order C18.pdf

the people are allowed to do the buccal swabs, the handprints the footprints everything they requested.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...trict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Order C16.pdf

As to the autopsy reports, it looks like there is going to be a hearing when they are finished, to see if they can be released.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...trict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Order C17.pdf

 

[Kensie]

Freedom from responsibilities was the motive for CW. It will interesting to find out his real motive and not the made-up one he gave to LE.

The poet, I think the babies were killed first too .

 

[Thepoet]

The autopsy may also show compelling evidence they had not anticipated such as a handprint which proves that he committed all the murders.

There’s also the very real possibility that the prosecution has become aware of compelling evidence they did not anticipate from the Vivent security system that his timeline is completely different to the one he gave in his so-called confession.

I think, the abundance and severity of charges, brought by the DA, says volumes about what they know and think they can prove.

 

[gitana1]

I don't know if you are still Gathering additions, nor do I know if anything that people updated you with are updated on the initial post of each thread.

I would add that his current story is that she killed the children. But yet, he smiles and laughs and preens when the shirt he is wearing, is mentioned by the media person. If your wife had just killed your children, and you in a rage killed her because she was killing your children, would you be wearing that shirt and smiling and preening and be so proud of it that you had to tell background on it, that she purchased that for you through Amazon?

( I'm still waiting for a Juan Martinez moment, when we learn that she actually was not the one that purchased the shirt)

Just one addition, I thought of a few, but first time I thought of posting to add to it.

The mods repost that so I can't add to it! There's been a lot of good stuff like the sheets in the trash and stuff.

 

[Thepoet]

It seems pretty clear that he stood there on the porch of his home the day after he alleges he saw his wife strangle his kids to death, and he transported them for miles and disposed of their bodies, and lied through his teeth about when he last saw them and not knowing where they were, not because he has some compulsive lying issue - which everyone who knew him would've known - but because he was trying to conceal their murders and his part in it.

Not one person who knew him discussed a compulsion to lie. Compulsive liars aren't stealth. Everyone who knows them catches them in their lies because they do it so often and it's so ridiculous.

I feel one needs to stretch super hard to find any reason for his guilty behavior the day after the murders other than what IMO is the obvious - he was trying to cover up what had happened.

Yes, cover up! He was in full cover up mode as soon as he left the house at 5:15 that morning. All of his actions and words!

 

[gitana1]

Very interesting article.

More from the article (bbm):

“ . . . But as soon as he decides he's "finished," he starts planning the murders-- weapons/tools obtained, the biggest threat is killed first (i.e. wife before kids), etc.”

That last line got me thinking. Any reason to believe that SW was killed first? She would’ve been the “biggest threat,” IMO.

I also wonder how he may have envisioned his future, had he premeditated her murder, but with some expectation that the girls would be kept alive. JMO.

It makes a lot of logical sense that she would be killed first. Because he would expect her to fight and scream and try to save her babies. And he wouldn't want to risk her waking up and finding him killing them.

 

[stereopticons]

It makes no sense to diagnose someone from a video. Even response to a dog barking is not an admission of guilt and can be sensory processing disorder, for example. Or something totally different.

Psychiatrists are not in agreement themselves, diagnostic-wise, a good example could be "schizoid personality disorder" vs "Asperger's" (I intentionally use old terminology) - both stay in DSM-V but the question remains whether they describe the same.

There are personality tests, there are neuropsychological tests, there are tests for autism, for mood disorder. CW will probably see a forensic psychiatrists and a psychologist. But as of today, we have very little information to diagnose him. Or SW, of course. I think we can talk about "traits" that we see but not disorders. We don't know enough.

Once upon a time, I read everything on the Columbine shooters, including the FBI report. (It is all published). The most shocking revelation was the discrepancy between their diaries (indicating serious mental issues) and visibly functional behavior. I think that even a trained doctor can miss a lot if the person is not honest.

In short, I think that today, we are better off mining for facts than trying to diagnose CW or SW.

But I wold say - CW was abnormal. Scott Peterson was abnormal, too. Because anyone who resorts to choices that 95% of people would not make is off by definition. At the same time, psychiatry might not not yet have the diagnosis for these people. Family annihilation is so much outside of human behavior.

(It would be interesting to run a therapy group for them, btw).

I’m not caught up on the thread but I have to chime in here.

This isn’t something that’s relevant to this case but I have to say that Schizoid personality disorder and Autism Spectrum Disorders are NOT the same thing. The DSM can be confusing because most people don’t fit all of the criteria for one disorder and may have some for others. It’s a guide, and the classification system is actually primarily for insurance purposes. There is a lot of discussion about not using the DSM to diagnose.

And not all killers have a diagnosable mental illness. (Not even everyone who commits suicide has a mental illness). Killing is not a symptom. Evil is not a diagnosis. It’s entirely possible that CW has no mental illness. It’s natural for us to assume that because he committed this evil act, that he must have some condition and knowing what it is will help us understand why but that just isn’t the case for some killers.

 

[dgfred]

He may have killed her first. But I think he killed the children first as the " biggest threat" would not have been there if he killed the kids before she got home. Jmo

Taking a big chance there of her friend coming in, her asking to speak to the kids before she got home, etc

That is serious planning beforehand... if so I would think he would have 'straightened' up things to have a plan in motion. Not do nothing in over 3 hours, load them up in the truck, and drive to work.

 

[Melsworld]

Hey everyone. I've never posted here but I've been reading since this tragedy. I don't know anyone involved but do live in Charlotte, NC where the Watts married. Also, her previous home I believe in the Gastonia area is a town beside mine. I thought I posted here during the Michelle Young murder as Mels but it might have been somewhere else because it wouldn't let me sign in as that.

I have a question for someone that has met CW - how tall is he? Thank you in advance.

 

[PhoneJockey]

And remember the neighbors system, cameras. Thank goodness for those neighbors Video, sound, ALL of it!!
I'm feeling a bit angry tonight, the need to defend precious, viciously murdered souls.

I've had to skip a TON to get "caught up". Did we find out for a fact that the neighbors cameras do indeed have sound?! Or if there was more than one neighbor who had running cameras that weekend/morning after?

 

[kebdal23]

It's the mantra now. No death penalty. Let them live out their lives in prison. Have any of you seen the privileges and all the perks these lifers get in prison? It's a reward for a lot of them. The ONLY thing they fear is their own mortality. Those who commit murders as atrocious as this have no conscience, so it is no deterrent to give them LIFE when they gave their victims DEATH. Another well known "untruth" is that it is "cheaper" to keep them for 50-60 years in prison than it is to give them the death penalty. The prison system gets paid per prisoner to keep them alive. I have two "retired" relatives who worked for years in the prison system. Most prisoners eventually lead a rather acceptable life in prison. No work, free everything. There are exceptions, but it's rare. Watch some yt videos of what really goes on behind prison doors, it will appall you. It sure did me. MOO, JMO.

I've watched some documentaries on the death penalty, and those months/weeks/days before their execution date....they really go through mental torture. Much more so than the comforts of life in prison. Imagine knowing the date of your own death and counting down the days up until then? I go back and forth on the death penalty, but cases like this (especially that it involves innocent children) make me feel it is indeed justified.

 

[dgfred]

Hey Mels... I am from N.C. also. Welcome

 

[PommyMommy]

Hey everyone. I've never posted here but I've been reading since this tragedy. I don't know anyone involved but do live in Charlotte, NC where the Watts married. Also, her previous home I believe in the Gastonia area is a town beside mine. I thought I posted here during the Michelle Young murder as Mels but it might have been somewhere else because it wouldn't let me sign in as that.

I have a question for someone that has met CW - how tall is he? Thank you in advance.

Welcome back, @Melsworld! ​